'Cut the dole' they say: What the IMF wants, the IMF gets

Anyone

puffishoes wrote: »

Expecting people to be frugal and financially responsible is being out of touch with reality?

The teachers in this country have a lot to answer for.

I'm probably better educated than you on being financially responsible and frugal.

As I said to Chucky, and as I will say to you.....your sense's of reality is very very out of touch.

miller50841

bbam wrote: »

Its interesting..
For those in PAYE employment calling for SW cuts while there are few/no jobs... Most pay an effective tax rate of about 15-20% of their gross income... or there abouts...
Say the IMF called for your effective tax rate to go up to 30% or 40% to support the ongoing issues with the countries finance... Would you be supporting their notion then if your tax was doubled ??
We seem to be a nation of short sighted people, "those lads on the dole are all scroungers that my tax pays for", how dare they have internet access, how dare they or their children expect to eat a meat dinner every day.. I know this is AH forum but surely people here see that there just aren't jobs out there and major SW cuts will just be creating poverty for the sake of poverty.. you can't drive 400,000+ people out to take up the 20,000/30,000 jobs that may be available at any time in Ireland (thats just a guess, its probably about 10,000 jobs)..
The government have failed to tackle the real issue in this country being that our domestic economy is in decline and unemployment is a social catastrophy. I'm not convinced by their current €2bn effort which would seem to create few long term jobs.. the sad truth is that we will need better court houses and garda stations, as our society collapses into poverty crime will rise and rise..

Workers can't keep getting hit with more cuts, taxes and so called levy which is just another tax.

Brush up on the amount a paye worker pays on tax cause its more then you say.

puffishoes

Anyone wrote: »

I'm probably better educated than you on being financially responsible and frugal.

Idiotic claim from someone so educated who knows nothing about me.

Anyone wrote: »

As I said to Chucky, and as I will say to you.....your sense's of reality is very very out of touch.

Can you explain oh wise one why expecting people to be financially responsible is being out of touch? is it because most people are idiots and we're expecting too much of people?

books4sale

tdv123 wrote: »

Why don't we all just get together & have a big bloody massive riot & over throw the goverment like they did Syria & Romania.

Msny people are quite satisfied with the current government, it can't be all things to all people.

Anyway this is a democracy and you had your chance at the election.

Anyone

puffishoes wrote: »

Idiotic claim from someone so educated who knows nothing about me.



Can you explain oh wise one why expecting people to be financially responsible is being out of touch? is it because most people are idiots and we're expecting too much of people?

Call me an idiot if you want, I know my skills/knowledge and I expect its better than yours on being financially resposible. You can keep calling people idiots all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Chucky the tree

Sin City wrote: »

But again your thinking that everyone had a good job and were able to put a substantial amount aside

That isnt the way Im afraid

Wtf are people doing buying a house if they don't have a good job?

Anyone wrote: »

If thats the way you think, then yeah, I would say yes you are out of touch with reality and very much so.

So you are saying most people have no savings or you think people who save are out of touch with reality?

Tombi!

puffishoes wrote: »

Idiotic claim from someone so educated who knows nothing about me.

Here's what we do know: you're really insulting to anyone you disagree with.

puffishoes

Anyone wrote: »

Call me an idiot if you want, I know my skills/knowledge and I expect its better than yours on being financially resposible. You can keep calling people idiots all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Well can you show us some of them skills and explain why it's been out of touch with reality to expect people to be financially sound?

bbam

miller50841 wrote: »

Brush up on the amount a paye worker pays on tax cause its more then you say.

No... I think you'll find that the effective tax rate paid is close to 20%

Anyone

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Wtf are people doing buying a house if they don't have a good job?





So you are saying most people have no savings or you think people who save are out of touch with reality?

No, but your point about people having 2 years salary saved AFTER buying a house, is very out of touch.

golden lane

ireland cannot afford to spend at the present rate......

who it stops spending money on, is a matter for the government....it has chosen not to cut the cost of the public workforce.....

why has it done that............?

CucaFace

Sin City wrote: »

Are you for real man? Maybe a single person with no kids but a family come off it




So the majority should be punished for the tiny minority?



Yes but not during a recession

So how many years should a man sit on the dole barely surviving until he should wake up to the fact that there isn't the work left in this country to provide for him and his family?

Europe is very accessable these days so why can't these guys go these find work and send money back? Its not like you could fly home every few weeks?

This is what our parents generation would have done (except for the flying home part)? But our generation have grown up with a totally different mentality. Thats the problem here. So many think they are entitled to a comfortable life here.

It might not be what anyone would want but its the bloody REALITY of this country and its time many realised it and just got on with what they have to do.

As for it being the tiny minority please get real, its a fairly big number that take advantage of our over the top welfare system that we just cannot afford anymore.

And yes it should have been fixed before, but again some reality needed, now is when we need this cash so now is when this problem needs to be addressed.

Chucky the tree

Anyone wrote: »

No, but your point about people having 2 years salary saved AFTER buying a house, is very out of touch.

I never said two years salary. I've been talking about mortgage payments. A years mortgage payment would be about 10k, two years 20k. I don't think expecting people to be able to save 10k is that ridiculous. In fact they should have done this before buying their house.

Anyone

puffishoes wrote: »

Well can you show us some of them skills and explain why it's been out of touch with reality to expect people to be financially sound?

No thanks, you appear to be unable to have a consersation without resorting to inuslts, so I'll give that one a miss.

puffishoes

Anyone wrote: »

No thanks, you appear to be unable to have a consersation without resorting to inuslts, so I'll give that one a miss.

So no, you have nothing to back up your theory/claims.

just be honest and don't hide behind me calling you out on a really stupid claim.

Anyone

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I never said two years salary. I've been talking about mortgage payments. A years mortgage payment would be about 10k, two years 20k. I don't think expecting people to be able to save 10k is that ridiculous. In fact they should have done this before buying their house.

Ok my bad, I misread your original post.

In the last 2-3 years though, its become increasingly difficult to save. Most of us have had wage cuts, all of us have higher direct taxes, and there have been the increased indirect taxes. Disposable income is a lot less for everyone now. And for a lot of people, they are must managing to keep their heads above water.

Tombi!

puffishoes wrote: »

So no, you have nothing to back up your theory/claims.

just be honest and don't hide behind me calling you out on a really stupid claim.

Tell you what, if you can explain why you're so rude and insulting, we'll answer any question you like, deal?

ArmaniJeanss

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I never said two years salary. I've been talking about mortgage payments. A years mortgage payment would be about 10k, two years 20k. I don't think expecting people to be able to save 10k is that ridiculous. In fact they should have done this before buying their house.

Having a years mortgage as a rainyday fund before you moved in used to be a standard thing to do ; then around 2002 the new cool thing was 6x no-deposit no savings mortgages.

puffishoes

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Tell you what, if you can explain why you're so rude and insulting, we'll answer any question you like, deal?

I don't think we need to know anything more about you.

Tombi!

puffishoes wrote: »

I don't think we need to know anything more about you.

If you have a problem, big a big boy and put me on ignore (or remain to be rude and insulting). Personally, I don't really care. I just wonder why you have some many issues with people on the dole.

puffishoes

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

If you have a problem, big a big boy and put me on ignore (or remain to be rude and insulting). Personally, I don't really care. I just wonder why you have some many issues with people on the dole.

I don't have any problem with anyone on the SW who is making a genuine effort to find work and isn't pissing the money the workers of the country are working hard to provide up against a tree and who look for every excuse in the book not to work.

But you're right I should have put your nonsensical posts on ignore long ago.

done.

Tombi!

puffishoes wrote: »

I don't have any problem with anyone on the SW who is making a genuine effort to find work and isn't pissing the money the workers of the country are working hard to provide up against a tree and who look for every excuse in the book not to work.

But you're right I should have put your nonsensical posts on ignore long ago.

done.

Hey someone remind me, isn't Pufin the one who has a sister the fecks off to Vegas?

puffishoes

Anyone wrote: »

Ok my bad, I misread your original post.

In the last 2-3 years though, its become increasingly difficult to save. Most of us have had wage cuts, all of us have higher direct taxes, and there have been the increased indirect taxes. Disposable income is a lot less for everyone now. And for a lot of people, they are must managing to keep their heads above water.

So don't go taking out mortgages you can't afford. it's that simple.

Phat Cat

Jame Gumb wrote: »

No wonder non nationals have all the lower paid jobs

I don't like this argument as it's very easy to throw out there but the fact of the matter is most non nationals are working for way more money then they would ever dream about back home in their own countries.

For example a fully qualified Polish person would earn around €300 in Poland for a months salary (that's the equivalent of €1.87 per hour). In Ireland they can earn an absolute minimum of €8.65 per hour for doing an unskilled job so that's €1,384 before tax and not including overtime and other perks. That's over 4 times more the salary they would get for working a highly skilled or technical job back home for a very basic job over here. Hence why so many came when the EU expanded back in 2004 and who could blame them?

Not to mention non-EU workers from the likes of Pakistan or China that would earn around €70 and €150 respectively per month for a fully qualified job in there own country. Obviously Ireland is vastly more expensive then these countries but if people live together and are very frugal with their money, which most are, then they can live comfortably here and build for a future back home in the process. It's a win win situation for most.

That's obviously a massive incentive to work. If there was a magical place where I could earn 5 to 10 times the minimum wage in Ireland for flipping burgers I would be there in the blink of an eyelid.

Fupping Grasshole

K-9 wrote: »

Well you could read posts in this thread that show that is an incorrect way of looking at things, learn from it and move on, or just throw terms like doley woleys around. The first type are worth discussing stuff with, the second..........

We're not on the same wave length

dasa29 wrote: »

I Totaly agree with you on this, but she also does not mentions that the dole as a whole is 3.9b of the 20b welfare.

in 2010 welfare was 20.8b
JA/JB(dole) was 4.1b it was 196 and cut to 188 that year
Penisons(non con, con, trans, pre retirement,) was 4.6b and not touched at all.
widows, widowers others. was2.5b
total child related payments wad 2.6b
Total Illness, Disability and Caring was 3.5b
Total Employment Supports was 500m
Total Supplemetary Welfare Allowance was 950m
Total Miscellaneous Payments and Grants was 1.3b (includes rent supp, household benfits, mis, Redundancy and Insolvency.)
Total Adminstration was 575m
All info taken from welfare.ie

3.9bn for dole isn't all that much given the circumstances, me thinks she plays divide and conquer a lot as part of the overall strategy of the government/Troika combined.

Chucky the tree

Anyone wrote: »

Ok my bad, I misread your original post.

In the last 2-3 years though, its become increasingly difficult to save. Most of us have had wage cuts, all of us have higher direct taxes, and there have been the increased indirect taxes. Disposable income is a lot less for everyone now. And for a lot of people, they are must managing to keep their heads above water.

People then shouldn't be currently considering buying a house then. For people who bought a house it's simply a case of cutting back on luxuries to make sure they keep their savings at a decent amount, it's especially important now.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Having a years mortgage as a rainyday fund before you moved in used to be a standard thing to do ; then around 2002 the new cool thing was 6x no-deposit no savings mortgages.

Ah sure they needed that money for their shopping holiday to New York.

kulareggae

Im unemployed due to illness now im a little better am trying to educate myself through springboard. I hate being on dole i have applied but havnt been sucessful.my husband is unsucessful due to lack of experience. I do think there shud be invrestigators brought in as i know 3 cases of ppl fleecing the system.its hard to see as i would love to work but i left school early and have gaps in my cv due to my illness.

Solair

The issue with reducing political salaries and also senior civil service salaries is nothing to do with balancing the books. Obviously, it would only have a relatively minor impact.

They need to lead by example on this. Their salaries are out of line with the performance of their offices and with the situation the economy is in at present.

In my mind, it's precisely the same as the leaders of failed banks paying themselves bonuses and gargantuan salaries and other perks.

They will have absolutely zero moral authority to do anything in terms of cut backs if they are not prepared to get a bit realistic about their own pay levels and also their insane unvouched expense schemes at the Dail and Seanad.

They need to do this to restore the standing of political leadership in Ireland. Otherwise, they're going to struggle very badly to get anyone else to agree to take a cut to their standards of living.

Chucky the tree

kulareggae wrote: »

Im unemployed due to illness now im a little better am trying to educate myself through springboard. I hate being on dole i have applied but havnt been sucessful.my husband is unsucessful due to lack of experience. I do think there shud be invrestigators brought in as i know 3 cases of ppl fleecing the system.its hard to see as i would love to work but i left school early and have gaps in my cv due to my illness.

Have you reported them?

kulareggae

Chucky the tree wrote: »

kulareggae wrote: »

Im unemployed due to illness now im a little better am trying to educate myself through springboard. I hate being on dole i have applied but havnt been sucessful.my husband is unsucessful due to lack of experience. I do think there shud be invrestigators brought in as i know 3 cases of ppl fleecing the system.its hard to see as i would love to work but i left school early and have gaps in my cv due to my illness.

Have you reported them?

No i do see them in buisness then signing on

De Dannan

why is there childrens allowance at all?
If you cannot afford to have children, dont have children
why should the state pay anything towards it

simonsez

golden lane wrote: »

the imf....lend the money, and make the rules.....they are usually more stringent...

GL, from what can be gleaned they(IMF) had a softer option back in Nov 2010 however out European 'friends' and Obama's Tim Geitner blocked the IMF's proposal . Ah yes is feider linn..........

CucaFace

Solair wrote: »

The issue with reducing political salaries and also senior civil service salaries is nothing to do with balancing the books. Obviously, it would only have a relatively minor impact.

They need to lead by example on this. Their salaries are out of line with the performance of their offices and with the situation the economy is in at present.

In my mind, it's precisely the same as the leaders of failed banks paying themselves bonuses and gargantuan salaries and other perks.

They will have absolutely zero moral authority to do anything in terms of cut backs if they are not prepared to get a bit realistic about their own pay levels and also their insane unvouched expense schemes at the Dail and Seanad.

They need to do this to restore the standing of political leadership in Ireland. Otherwise, they're going to struggle very badly to get anyone else to agree to take a cut to their standards of living.

Totally agree.

Their reduced salary would make no real financial difference to the country's finances really, but it should have been done long ago as a sign of understanding, common decency with the reality of what is going on in this country.

simonsez

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Decide if the internet connection and computer you're using is more important than food

maybe the bloke is in a library looking for work its free to do there.

the_syco

CucaFace wrote: »

This is what our parents generation would have done

In our parents generation, Ireland was f**ked, everywhere else was fine. Now, everywhere is f**ked.

kulareggae wrote: »

No i do see them in buisness then signing on

Report them; it'll ensure that they get looked at quicker.

jimbob 101

hmm i think the mass signing on culture of certain people might wake up if it was cut ... but certain people are struggling as it is i think id like to see my local td,s working for under 200 a week ..... immigration seems to be my only viable option now

2ndcoming

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

And why should I work for free? I'd be doing the same stuff if I was paid, just without the reward. Would you honestly feel satisfied being "employed" by some scumbag who will only hire you as slave labour?

The simple answer to this is needs must allow. If you were on €88 a week instead of €188 I'd be willing to wager you'd find the motivation to do whatever it takes to get experience and get that €300 a week barstaff/coffeeshop job. For an extra €120, it frankly isn't worth the hassle.

I'm a pretty left-minded guy, but incentive is key in this argument and there is little at present.

donegal_road

Casillas wrote: »

Eh, encourage people to work where?

Also if the level of payments is too high, why the record emigration?

work down at the dole office silly!

simonsez

love it , with this sense of humour . you must be long lost fellow dark brother.

Jame Gumb

I'm no fan of our politicians but they have taken significant salary cuts already.

Also, comparing people on the dole with anyone who works for a living isn't appropriate.

Most people's concerns are twofold:

- There are people on the dole who do not want to work. Their benefits should be slashed.

- At €188 per week (plus allowances for everything), benefits are too generous. People on the dole should be living at a purely subsistence level with absolutely no luxuries or discretionary spending power. If they can afford one drink, one trip away or one cigarette, then their benefits are too generous.

kulareggae

donegal_road wrote: »

Casillas wrote: »

Eh, encourage people to work where?

Also if the level of payments is too high, why the record emigration?

work down at the dole office silly![/Quote

wasnt a job workin in a dole office offered on the jobsbridge

i personally have a problem with the programme btw id rather work the 40 hrs normally tbh a few mates in college did it a headache one the company went bust

simonsez

Dartz wrote: »

Another hard winter and cutting the OAP fuel allowance will deal with them! Lower pensions burden. Encourage younger people to retire, open up vacated positions to be filled.

Maybe cut funding to suicide helplines while we're at it.... More job's opened up. More off the dole too.

Every Road Death is a Situation Vacant. Enforcement should focus on revenue generation rather than safety.

Emigration grants. One time payment, repayable on return to the country. People who leave the country and never return are no longer on the dole.

Encourage smoking. Not only will this raise taxes, cancer will free up positions in the long term, while reducing the pensions burder.



More Seats in the Dail. More jobs for gob****es with no hope, no brain and no experience.

This is ****in' easy this is.

Good man at last someone with vision. Together we can bring order to this galaxy.........

ilovesleep

2ndcoming wrote: »

The simple answer to this is needs must allow. If you were on €88 a week instead of €188 I'd be willing to wager you'd find the motivation to do whatever it takes to get experience and get that €300 a week barstaff/coffeeshop job. For an extra €120, it frankly isn't worth the hassle.

I'm a pretty left-minded guy, but incentive is key in this argument and there is little at present.

Are there 400,000+ coffeshop/barstaff/macdonalds jobs going?

By cutting it down to 88 euro a week people will be queuing up to brian cowen and begging to eat the sh1t from his hole for a bite to eat.

Tombi!

2ndcoming wrote: »

The simple answer to this is needs must allow. If you were on €88 a week instead of €188 I'd be willing to wager you'd find the motivation to do whatever it takes to get experience and get that €300 a week barstaff/coffeeshop job. For an extra €120, it frankly isn't worth the hassle.

I'm a pretty left-minded guy, but incentive is key in this argument and there is little at present.

For an extra 120 is it.

But I'm not working for free, ever. It's not as if I'm doing anything wrong, either. So I'm happy enough.

puffishoes

ilovesleep wrote: »

Are there 400,000+ coffeshop/barstaff/macdonalds jobs going?

No, there's about 26k jobs going and 1k created a week.

now if we get 25k off that's a fairly big saving on the purse. we can take the saving we make of the 25k and put it into creating say another 15k jobs.

now you have 35k off and 35k spending in the economy, which will generate about 30k jobs, now you have 65k off and one we go.

rome wasn't built in a day.

Jame Gumb

ilovesleep wrote: »

2ndcoming wrote: »

The simple answer to this is needs must allow. If you were on €88 a week instead of €188 I'd be willing to wager you'd find the motivation to do whatever it takes to get experience and get that €300 a week barstaff/coffeeshop job. For an extra €120, it frankly isn't worth the hassle.

I'm a pretty left-minded guy, but incentive is key in this argument and there is little at present.

Are there 400,000+ coffeshop/barstaff/macdonalds jobs going?

By cutting it down to 88 euro a week people will be queuing up to brian cowen and begging to eat the sh1t from his hole for a bite to eat.

I see "staff wanted" signs everywhere. Dino's Takeaway in Terenure need staff. The Dropping Well need staff. McDonalds need staff. If you want a job, you'll get one. If you don't want a job or you think that you're above working in a takeaway joint or waiting tables, you won't.

Go to Spain or Portugal and you'll see middle aged men with families waiting tables. Do you see that in Ireland? No, 'cause people are deluded and think that they're above doing that.

Tombi!

Jame Gumb wrote: »

I see "staff wanted" signs everywhere. Dino's Takeaway in Terenure need staff. The Dropping Well need staff. McDonalds need staff. If you want a job, you'll get one. If you don't want a job or you think that you're above working in a takeaway joint or waiting tables, you won't.

Go to Spain or Portugal and you'll see middle aged men with families waiting tables. Do you see that in Ireland? No, 'cause people are deluded and think that they're above doing that.

I gave applying to McDonalds. Mostly I gave up due to "sorry, we can't accept any CVs".

Jame Gumb

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Jame Gumb wrote: »

I see "staff wanted" signs everywhere. Dino's Takeaway in Terenure need staff. The Dropping Well need staff. McDonalds need staff. If you want a job, you'll get one. If you don't want a job or you think that you're above working in a takeaway joint or waiting tables, you won't.

Go to Spain or Portugal and you'll see middle aged men with families waiting tables. Do you see that in Ireland? No, 'cause people are deluded and think that they're above doing that.

I gave applying to McDonalds. Mostly I gave up due to "sorry, we can't accept any CVs".

Apply to Dino's in Terenure. Pretty sure that Eddie Rockets are looking for people too.

almighty1

Its pretty straightforward.

Payments should be relative to how much PAYE and PRSI you have contributed prior to going on the dole.

Also the longer you're on the dole the less you get.

Brabbitte

Dubhlinner wrote: »

how in the name of god would it do that?

Do you know how expensive car parking is?!!