'Cut the dole' they say: What the IMF wants, the IMF gets

Smidge

Chucky the tree wrote: »

They prefer much did. Hence why it's called a property bubble - because it will burst.[/QUOTE]

Mmmmkaaaayyy

Don't reckon we have a lot more to say to each other so!

TheTurk1972

PickledLime wrote: »

Oh look, it's someone in a thread about social welfare on a high horse, quelle surprise.

Can you tell me from atop your high horse is my girlfriend employable? She finished her Honours B.Sc. 2 months ago, got herself a 1:1 and top of her class to boot. Her supervisor thought her thesis was so good they put together a proposal for a Master's Degree and it was accepted. Worked a job at all hours through the year to keep herself afloat too. From January onwards, she spent a few hours after doing her weekly shop on Friday jobhunting. Carpeted the place with CVs, or if it was really bad weather, she'd sit online trawling and applying for positions. When she finished her final exam in mid May, she walked straight to FAS and registered.

Two months on and she's unemployed and ripping her hair out in frustration. Tell me, what else is she supposed to do? Because as far as i can tell, she literally did everything she possibly could and just needs a bit of luck, because, you know, there aren't enough jobs to go around, which is something you seemed to have missed :mad:

Obviously she's not.
And obviously she hasn't done "everything she could possibly do to"
She'll just have to try harder or pinpoint where she is doing it wrong. My nephew graduated recently too. Found it hard to get a job and went to the uk for one and is delighted. People seem to think that they are entitled to a job without having to actually do something about it to get one if its difficult.

yes, excuses rule with the unemployed.
you even have people like yourself making excuses for your other half.
ask your parents what their generation did when they couldn't get a job and the dole wasn't very much. It might open your eyes that if you can't make it work here, you make it work where its workable.

Loads of jobs in the uk for grads by the way.

SocSocPol

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Obviously she's not.
And obviously she hasn't done "everything she could possibly do to"
She'll just have to try harder or pinpoint where she is doing it wrong. My nephew graduated recently too. Found it hard to get a job and went to the uk for one and is delighted. People seem to think that they are entitled to a job without having to actually do something about it to get one if its difficult.

yes, excuses rule with the unemployed.
you even have people like yourself making excuses for your other half.
ask your parents what their generation did when they couldn't get a job and the dole wasn't very much. It might open your eyes that if you can't make it work here, you make it work where its workable.

Loads of jobs in the uk for grads by the way.

I have news for you my friend, there are NOT 450,000 jobs in Ireland waiting to be filled, and thats a fact.
There is not even a job for everyone who wants one.
So snide comments like the ones you have been making in this thread are neither helpful nor, more importantly, honest.:mad:
And by the way I have a job.

Tombi!

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Loads of jobs in the uk for grads by the way.

See, that attitude is the problem.
It's basically "work for slave labour in Jobbride or **** off out of the country".

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

TheTurk1972

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

See, that attitude is the problem.
It's basically "work for slave labour in Jobbride or **** off out of the country".

I suppose you cant help people who won't help themselves.
I bet they would be more inclined to help themselves if the IMF had their way though.

SocSocPol

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

I suppose you cant help people who won't help themselves.
I bet they would be more inclined to help themselves if the IMF had their way though.

I would refer you to post 259.

buck65

The IMF want to means test pensions, medical cards and child benefits. This makes sense, the poorer will be left alone the richer get cut back wtf is the problem?

Tombi!

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

I suppose you cant help people who won't help themselves.
I bet they would be more inclined to help themselves if the IMF had their way though.

I suppose you're a supporter of the "piss off for a few years and come back with experience" attitude?

martingriff

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Why don't these pricks go after the protected species professions with as much vigour as those at the bottom of this putrid shit-heap?

Hospital Consultants, overpaid 'civil Servants', GP's and Dentists, Semi State management, PbS bureaucrats, The legal people..

I think along with the social wefare in that report it did talk about public sector.

It has been said in the tread a few times but cutting social wefare alone won't help it will only hinder (the system needs to be reformed). What also needs to be changed is the price of living of things we buy. Prices for everything are still 2 high.

Business have to understand we are not in 2006 anymore with there prices and also welfare will need to know that they cant get the same they (could) get in the good old days and the public sector will have to realise sooner or later things will change and this will include like it or not wages and jobs. (needs to start top to bottom)

Arawn

Jobs are hard as fuc to get here, I lost mine when the bubble bust, couldn't get another job, retained at my own expense, couldn't get a job there, am currently retaining again. I don't want to leave ireland but if I can't get a job after a few months are my training is complete I will.

Dole is too high for young people with no bills or expenses to pay, for the majority of people it barely covers the basic

TheTurk1972

SocSocPol wrote: »

I would refer you to post 259.

If you are not good enough to get yourself out of the bottom 10% in Ireland then do what any other smart person would do.

Go somewhere where you are better than their bottom few %.

Here is a place to start just for the UK.

http://www.job-page.co.uk/

And then there is a whole world out there.
Ask your parents what their generation had to do to get a job.

Or we can just keep reading the excuses here for the rest of the thread.

TheTurk1972

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I suppose you're a supporter of the "piss off for a few years and come back with experience" attitude?

More like the help yourself by doing something or just stay here crying and complaining that nobody will give you a job.

Bet you wouldn't stay and cry though if the dole was cut. You,d probably have a job because you would have no choice but to try harder.

Tombi!

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Or we can just keep reading the excuses here for the government

I fixed your post.

Seriosuly, how the fúck can you actually say "piss off, get experience and we'll let you work in your own country".

Why? Are you happy enough to be screwed over, told to leave and return when you're "suitable" for work?

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

More like the help yourself by doing something or just stay here crying and complaining that nobody will give you a job.

Bet you wouldn't stay and cry though if the dole was cut. You,d probably have a job because you would have no choice but to try harder.

Interesting... so you feel that by cutting the dole you can create jobs?

How does that work, exactly?

SocSocPol

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

If you are not good enough to get yourself out of the bottom 10% in Ireland then do what any other smart person would do.

Go somewhere where you are better than their bottom few %.

Here is a place to start just for the UK.

http://www.job-page.co.uk/

And then there is a whole world out there.
Ask your parents what their generation had to do to get a job.

Or we can just keep reading the excuses here for the rest of the thread.

If you had read my post you would know that I have a job, a damn good one actually.
However, unlike you I don't believe that having a good job entitles me to insult,belittle and sneer at those hundreds of thousands of workers who have been made unemployed in the last few years.
Im out of this discussion now, I have reported your posts and will leave the matter with the mods.

enda1

JimiTime wrote: »

And what about the person who's home is in €200k's worth of negative equity? You reckon they should just up and leave? I wish some of you morons would think about things, and stop being so sweeping and cynical about your fellow Irishmen. Pride or dignity are the least of a persons worries when they find themselves at the mercy of the state in terms of income, and at the mercy of the bank in terms of their home. 'Just get a job', or 'move abroad', such ignorant nonsense.

You do realise that by the person handing over a large part of their dole as mortgage payments, it's not them paying the mortgage but the state, yeah?

The responsible thing to do would be to up sticks and move and pay off the mortgage with their improved income. Though it is easier to moan on boards and collect the weekly handout...

kevthegaff

I dont agree with child benefit at all, its compensating people to have children(most of all are from lower class familys) this inturn is creating problems with crime drugs and education:(. If someone has children, they should pay for it themselves, its peoples decisions at the end of the day. Social Welfare is way too high also, food+clothing+heating coupons should be introduced with a basic payment p/w.

SocSocPol

kevthegaff wrote: »

I dont agree with child benefit at all, its compensating people to have children(most of all are from lower class familys) this inturn is creating problems with crime drugs and education:(. If someone has children, they should pay for it themselves, its peoples decisions at the end of the day. Social Welfare is way too high also, food+clothing+heating coupons should be introduced with a basic payment p/w.

Can you provide a link to your source evidence for this sweeping generalization?

TheTurk1972

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I fixed your post.

Seriosuly, how the fúck can you actually say "piss off, get experience and we'll let you work in your own country".

Why? Are you happy enough to be screwed over, told to leave and return when you're "suitable" for work?



Interesting... so you feel that by cutting the dole you can create jobs?

How does that work, exactly?

And here we see why some people are on the dole that don't have to be.

Tombi!

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

And here we see why some people are on the dole that don't have to be.

And in your posts we see an ignorant person who has no clue of how hard it is for someone in Ireland.

But hey, you fúcked off to a much better country, didn't you?

TheTurk1972

SocSocPol wrote: »

If you had read my post you would know that I have a job, a damn good one actually.
However, unlike you I don't believe that having a good job entitles me to insult,belittle and sneer at those hundreds of thousands of workers who have been made unemployed in the last few years.
Im out of this discussion now, I have reported your posts and will leave the matter with the mods.

Well good for you. You weren't adding anything anyway. But you making excuses for other people isn't going to help them get a job now is it. People have to realize that the only one who can help them is themselves.
You'd think no one was unemployed before. As a school leaver in the mid 80's I can tell you things were a lot worse then than now. When you got on the boat then you might not see your family or friends for years.
Now when I have to work in the UK i can come home at the weekends.
I have even come home for the day a few times.

Tombi!

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Now when I have to work in the UK i can come home at the weekends.
I have even come home for the day a few times.

So you don't live in Ireland and you no clue at all.

I'm glad you cleared it up, thank you.

TheTurk1972

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

So you don't live in Ireland and you no clue at all.

I'm glad you cleared it up, thank you.

Actually I do live in Ireland.

Consider that cleared up.

I hope you read the specs of the jobs you are applying for better than you read here.

Jester252

Do like how AH attitude changed about the dole when the IMF was mentioned

books4sale

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

As a school leaver in the mid 80's I can tell you things were a lot worse then than now.

No there not, I left school mid eighties too, what are you on about?

Tombi!

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Actually I do live in Ireland.

Consider that cleared up.

I hope you read the specs of the jobs you are applying for better than you read here.

I don't apply for one, sure aren't I just another scrounging piece of shít you look down upon?

TBH, I don't really care about your opinion on how to make people work (I don't mean that in a rude way).
Had you honestly, have given a decent logical argument I'd have cared. But instead your argument amounts to "there are no jobs, who cares? Just make them work in imaginary jobs".

Cutting the dole to force people to work is like refusing to sell food and expect people to eat food that doesn't exist. You cannot work jobs that don't exist.

Unless you were talking about the great jobs where I can stand in the rain all day or go door to door like a muppet and obtain uncapped earnings and all this worthless spin they put on those "jobs".

giant_midget

It's not as if there is 450k jobs out there for all these people to go to work. I do believe that the dole should be cut for people who didn't work in the boom and still continue not to work, leave the normal people alone who lost their jobs through no fault of their own.

Get the very long term people on the dole and cut it by 70%. The type of person that never worked a day in his life and still gets paid dole should not be part of our system. These scrounger values fall to their kids and the cycle of lazyness and scrounging continues through them. We need to let these people know that it's not a free ride in life and you can't just sail through on handouts from the government.

Dave!

Myself and several of my mates (and plenty of their mates) went on the dole after finishing college, and over the months (while still looking for work) managed to save up enough to go to Australia.

It's a pretty silly situation if that is possible. The dole shouldn't be as high for a 21 year old recent graduate living with mammy and daddy as it is for a parent who recently lost their job and has a mortgage.

And surely we can all get behind significantly reducing or removing the dole for long-term unemployed.

BTW this nonsense of "why don't the IMF tell the government to lower TD salaries?" is typical AH rabble rabble stuff. How much would that save the state? An insignificant amount. We still have a huge budget deficit which has to come down, and social welfare is one of the biggest costs to the exchequer, so populist stuff like reducing government salaries might make people feel better, and might be appropriate, but it's simply a distraction from the important and difficult decisions that the government was elected to make.

TheTurk1972

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I don't apply for one, sure aren't I just another scrounging piece of shít you look down upon?

TBH, I don't really care about your opinion on how to make people work (I don't mean that in a rude way).
Had you honestly, have given a decent logical argument I'd have cared. But instead your argument amounts to "there are no jobs, who cares? Just make them work in imaginary jobs".

Cutting the dole to force people to work is like refusing to sell food and expect people to eat food that doesn't exist. You cannot work jobs that don't exist.

Unless you were talking about the great jobs where I can stand in the rain all day or go door to door like a muppet and obtain uncapped earnings and all this worthless spin they put on those "jobs".

Well we all make your own beds.
Stay in the one you are happy in.

Tombi!

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Well we all make your own beds.
Stay in the one you are happy in.

Well so long as you understand we're not all trying to drop out of the job market because the attraction of the dole.

I'm sure you can come up with a logical explantion as to why so many are quitting the jobs and getting the dole in the last few years?

If you can (or can't), perhaps you could explain to me why I should go abroad, get experience and then return to Ireland when Ireland doesn't care?

Sin City

Sounds like some people wont be happy until those on the dole are out on the streets begging for spare change instead of spunging off the state. Of course then they will complain about the amount of beggers on the street harrassing them for a few cents.


I find it comical that those who are fortunate enough to have jobs complain about the have nots struggling to get by. They shot get a job knowing full well that there is a lack of jobs but dont let a little fact like that get in the way of getting high and mighty looking down from their pedistals with distain for all those who cant contribute to society as if they had the plague or something.


99% OF PEOPLE ON THE DOLE DONT WANT TO BE ON THE DOLE

Free ride my arse. There is nothing comfortable about being on the dole, praying you have enough money to feed yourself towards the end of the week.

But I doubt the haves will ever change their minds about the have nots here

Tombi!

Sin City wrote: »

99% OF PEOPLE ON THE DOLE DONT WANT TO BE ON THE DOLE

Except you're forgetting one thing about the complainers: they've never been on it and assume anyone on it is on it by choice and/or it's exceptionally easy to get a job within a day.

While people dont' want to be on it, it's just a simple case of ignorance.

TheTurk1972

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Except you're forgetting one thing about the complainers: they've never been on it and assume anyone on it is on it by choice and/or it's exceptionally easy to get a job within a day.

While people dont' want to be on it, it's just a simple case of ignorance.

I was on it for two years.
It wasn't even as much then as it is now. I made all the same excuses i am hearing these days. Someone I was close to told my what a whinger i was becoming and i was getting comfortable on the dole.
I decided then I was going to do everything in my power to stay off it in future.
I went to London to was dishes. Then I went to Greece to clean boats. Then I saved up enough money to get myself some training. Each year I upskill to what i think i will need for the next few years

randylonghorn

Dave! wrote: »

BTW this nonsense of "why don't the IMF tell the government to lower TD salaries?" is typical AH rabble rabble stuff. How much would that save the state? An insignificant amount. We still have a huge budget deficit which has to come down, and social welfare is one of the biggest costs to the exchequer, so populist stuff like reducing government salaries might make people feel better, and might be appropriate, but it's simply a distraction from the important and difficult decisions that the government was elected to make.

You're right, in simple mathematical terms.

I kinda believe in the "lead by example" principle though.

TheTurk1972

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Well so long as you understand we're not all trying to drop out of the job market because the attraction of the dole.

I'm sure you can come up with a logical explantion as to why so many are quitting the jobs and getting the dole in the last few years?

If you can (or can't), perhaps you could explain to me why I should go abroad, get experience and then return to Ireland when Ireland doesn't care?

You don't get it at all do you.
Nobody is telling you to do anything. People are only pointing out that you have the power to help yourself. You do have options.
You can go abroad to help yourself if required. Its up to you. Its also up to you if you ever come back or are happier with your better life.
Nobody here can get you a job or career. That's your job.
Don't blame Ireland for your lethargy. Of course it doesn't care. Its your life. Its up to you to care enough to improve it.

Dave!

Sin City wrote: »

Free ride my arse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSQYYUax_q0

Tombi!

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

I was on it for two years.
It wasn't even as much then as it is now. I made all the same excuses i am hearing these days. Someone I was close to told my what a whinger i was becoming and i was getting comfortable on the dole.
I decided then I was going to do everything in my power to stay off it in future.
I went to London to was dishes. Then I went to Greece to clean boats. Then I saved up enough money to get myself some training. Each year I upskill to what i think i will need for the next few years

Good for you, you saved up! But didn't you want to cut the dole to force people out into non-existent jobs?

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

You don't get it at all do you.
Nobody is telling you to do anything. People are only pointing out that you have the power to help yourself. You do have options.
You can go abroad to help yourself if required. Its up to you. Its also up to you if you ever come back or are happier with your better life.
Nobody here can get you a job or career. That's your job.
Don't blame Ireland for your lethargy. Of course it doesn't care. Its your life. Its up to you to care enough to improve it.

Okay so from "cut the dole" to "I saved up" back to "it's your own fault".

How does one manage to get the money to go abroad and live if... they don't have money?

Do you know how much I would love to move the fúck outta my family home? But lacking the money to do that, I can't. Then again I can just piss off for a few years, get experience and return and work hard to support the country.
Mind giving me some tips on how to save up when I get enough to barely make ends meet? I'm sure with oh... 15-20 euro a week I can easily save up just like you did! Unless they cut the dole like you want

But hey, that's MY fault the rent rates are too high, the cost of living is too high. Gosh, everything is my fault. Pity I was stupid enough to be born living here when the government decides to fúck us over.

Well I'll be sure to preach your wisdom of "you're responsible for the fúck ups, you're at fault for lack of jobs, you're at fault for being on the dole, we should cut your dole and make you work imaginary jobs and then you can leave the country".

Edit: You know the worst part? I'm not even complaining. I'm just telling it is like it is. I don't complain and bitch and moan that I can't afford new clothes or a good social life. I don't care that I can't afford certain things.

Do you know why I don't care? Because I'm not a complainer. Yes, had I have been lucky and gotten a great job (or be born at a better time) I wouldn't look down on people because I know how quickly your life can change at the drop of a hat.

JoeGil

Dave! wrote: »

Myself and several of my mates (and plenty of their mates) went on the dole after finishing college, and over the months (while still looking for work) managed to save up enough to go to Australia.

It's a pretty silly situation if that is possible. The dole shouldn't be as high for a 21 year old recent graduate living with mammy and daddy as it is for a parent who recently lost their job and has a mortgage.

And surely we can all get behind significantly reducing or removing the dole for long-term unemployed.

BTW this nonsense of "why don't the IMF tell the government to lower TD salaries?" is typical AH rabble rabble stuff. How much would that save the state? An insignificant amount. We still have a huge budget deficit which has to come down, and social welfare is one of the biggest costs to the exchequer, so populist stuff like reducing government salaries might make people feel better, and might be appropriate, but it's simply a distraction from the important and difficult decisions that the government was elected to make.

I don't think the point regarding politician salaries was made for the purpose of the monetary savings to be made but rather that it would set a signal when cuts have to be made in other areas that everybody is in this together.

I understand what you are saying regards the trip to Australia. Given that you see this as not being correct did you repay the money for your trip to the exchequer after you started earning for yourself?

steddyeddy

Cut child benifit for those earning above a certain amount. Significantly raise college fees for people whose parents earn over a certain amount and yes lower the dole for single people with no dependents. The public sector also needs to increase productivity by getting rid of some of their staff.

books4sale

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Do you know why I don't care? Because I'm not a complainer. Yes, had I have been lucky and gotten a great job (or be born at a better time) I wouldn't look down on people because I know how quickly your life can change at the drop of a hat.

Maybe you don't care because you're depressed.

The dole can suck the life out of the happiest people.

Tombi!

books4sale wrote: »

Maybe you don't care because you're depressed.

The dole can suck the life out of the happiest people.

I'm not depressed. I just kinda came to a realization that this country is pretty muched screwed for a while. I'm not saying I support anyone who sits at home on their arse doing feck all.

But I can sympathize with people who have been on the dole because of the lack of jobs,etc and just don't see the point anymore when the job market is decreasing instead of increasing.

But I do often get upset at random times when I have long hard think at times. You just need to shrug it off and face facts, Ireland is at fault rather than those who got shafted.

Dave!

JoeGil wrote: »

I don't think the point regarding politician salaries was made for the purpose of the monetary savings to be made but rather that it would set a signal when cuts have to be made in other areas that everybody is in this together.

I understand what you are saying regards the trip to Australia. Given that you see this as not being correct did you repay the money for your trip to the exchequer after you started earning for yourself?

Ah, that old canard, just like conservative commentators in the US tell to Democrats: you're free to volunteer more tax if you want, and we'll keep paying our low tax.

I'm afraid in order to make any significant difference in terms of the deficit, fiscal policy needs to be changed on a national level, not just depending on individuals to volunteer it. I think it's fine that people (such as myself) receive the welfare rate that they're legally entitled to, so why would I give it back? It's up to the politicians to reduce the rate, not for us to depend on people's consciences to help us balance the books.

I notice you didn't actually offer an opinion on the actual topic, but just decided to divert attention away from it with canards, like others have done in this thread. Very crafty! Unfortunately it doesn't help us reduce the deficit though.

Sykk

Double-edged sword...

I know of people struggling on the dole, due to bad debts.

I know of people who eat better than I do, get rent allowance and dole, go out twice a week, due to no debts.

But I also know someone who has refused several jobs because with commuting/lunch/tax and other variable costs, she's better off on the dole.

Means test ffs... It's not rocket science.

loads of notices in pub and cafe windows in town looking for people

books4sale

steddyeddy wrote: »

Significantly raise college fees for people whose parents earn over a certain amount

EH??? Get a brain will ya? How would that work?

35 year old Jimmy married with two kids wants to go back to third level.

Sorry Jimmy, your fees will be raised because your parents earn X.

:D:D

Tombi!

bluewolf wrote: »

loads of notices in pub and cafe windows in town looking for people

You forget to add in "you'l be in competition with hundreds of others and need X amount of experience" :P

Brutal Deluxe

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

You forget to add in "you'l be in competition with hundreds of others and need X amount of experience" :P

yeah no point even trying right

the signs have been up a while

Tombi!

bluewolf wrote: »

yeah no point even trying right

the signs have been up a while

Doubt I've been to all of them but most of them usually consist of "give me your CV. No experience, sorry".

But I suppose each person has an opinion on the matter.

steddyeddy

books4sale wrote: »

EH??? Get a brain will ya? How would that work?

35 year old Jimmy married with two kids wants to go back to third level.

Sorry Jimmy, your fees will be raised because your parents earn X.

:D:D

Im referring to people still dependent on their parents. Also if Jimmy earns enough he should pay higher fees.

Ray Palmer

So somebody has measured up our income and expenditure and come up with we don't have enough money to afford our benefit system.
You got to wonder are they right. Where are we going to get the money from to continue to pay it.
The only real option is to increase tax. The problem there is that will stop people spending money.
Mean while there is a outcry in the IT sector for people. Training is available but people aren't taking it.
There is more to the whole thing than just people unable to get a job. I did 4 courses when I was out of work. I spent time and learned other things such as plumbing to maintain my home.
At the same time I know people who never learned while out of work. It is a tough thing to do.
There are jobs but not where you may have worked before. Not enough for everyone but we are importing people to fill positions