'Cut the dole' they say: What the IMF wants, the IMF gets

Sala

I don't understand why, when a lot of people think the dole is too high, but when there is a thread on reporting social welfare fraud the posters are accused of being immoral, begrudgers etc.
Reducing social welfare payments will impact the people who need them the most - I have no doubt those who are claiming things they aren't entitled to will continue to do so. Social welfare fraud and errors cost E92m last year.

puffishoes

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Doubt I've been to all of them but most of them usually consist of "give me your CV. No experience, sorry".

But I suppose each person has an opinion on the matter.

have you tried maybe volunteering somewhere for a few hours on a Sunday to gain the experience required? have you done anything besides hand someone a cv?

theg81der

Why are people so focused on dole when dole is only 20% of the social welfare total spend?

Tombi!

puffishoes wrote: »

have you tried maybe volunteering somewhere for a few hours on a Sunday to gain the experience required? have you done anything besides hand someone a cv?

No, I meant literal experience in a coffee shop/whatever. Not general work experience

puffishoes

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

No, I meant literal experience in a coffee shop/whatever. Not general work experience

so go to a coffee shop and offer them your hard work free of charge for a few hours one day a week.

after a few weeks put the exerieince on your cv and apply for a job.

you never know, the shop might see some potential in your enterprising attitude and hire you.

have you done anything off your own back besides hand out cv's?

books4sale

steddyeddy wrote: »

Im referring to people still dependent on their parents. Also if Jimmy earns enough he should pay higher fees.

Well that would be til the age of 18 then.

The majority leave home and attend third level from 18 onwards.

If Jimmy is attending college he will be classed as a student not a high earner so you must have an extremely low threshold in mind.

Tombi!

puffishoes wrote: »

so go to a coffee shop and offer them your hard work free of charge for a few hours one day a week.

So in otherwords, go on Jobbridge. No thank you. I will not be taken advantage of.

Brutal Deluxe

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

So in otherwords, go on Jobbridge. No thank you. I will not be taken advantage of.

a few hours one day a week is what he said, not a full time unpaid job
if you think you are too important for that you'll be stuck on the dole a long time complaining about how "ireland doesnt care"

Sin City

bluewolf wrote: »

a few hours one day a week is what he said, not a full time unpaid job
if you think you are too important for that you'll be stuck on the dole a long time complaining about how "ireland doesnt care"

Who covers insurence when your doing this expirence?

If I was to slip with a pot of tea/coffee and scaled myself or a customer what happens?

Tombi!

bluewolf wrote: »

a few hours one day a week is what he said, not a full time unpaid job
if you think you are too important for that it's no wonder you're stuck on the dole

Stuck on it? I'm happy not lending my services free of charge to someone who won't pay me but will use me for free.

If you want to work for free (or anyone else) be my guest.

I'm not too important, I just don't think being employed for no money when I have basic rights is something I would lower myself to. I'd be disgusted and wouldn't go there again if I knew someone else had to done to them.

And yes, I'm well aware at least someone is going to kick off so feel free to name me a scrounger, etc. That's no different that what I'd be called for working for free.

Sin City

Heres a thought, why dont the employed offer their pay as tax and just get the 188 a week like those on the dole. Ye can all be the saviours of the country. Ye wont mind as ye all seem to think that 188 is way too much for people to survive on.

Shall we call Enda and get the ball rolling. Im sure he will be thrilled at the gesture , Im sure the IMF will sit up and take notice then

JoeGil

Dave! wrote: »

Ah, that old canard, just like conservative commentators in the US tell to Democrats: you're free to volunteer more tax if you want, and we'll keep paying our low tax.

I'm afraid in order to make any significant difference in terms of the deficit, fiscal policy needs to be changed on a national level, not just depending on individuals to volunteer it. I think it's fine that people (such as myself) receive the welfare rate that they're legally entitled to, so why would I give it back? It's up to the politicians to reduce the rate, not for us to depend on people's consciences to help us balance the books.

I notice you didn't actually offer an opinion on the actual topic, but just decided to divert attention away from it with canards, like others have done in this thread. Very crafty! Unfortunately it doesn't help us reduce the deficit though.

Firstly I am all for reducing the deficit before the current levels of overspend damage the future of the economy any further.

As regards the Australian trip my point had nothing to do with US politics. As somebody who has been fortunate enough to have been able to sudy at third level I don't see you as representative on unemployed people in general who are by and large less qualified and will have difficulty in the long term getting a job.

I would certainly question the motivation of you and your mates to sign on the dole in order to finance a trip to Australia. You may have had excess from your dole payments to do this but the majority of people will will be struggling to get by on the unemployment benefits they receive and will not be waiting on "the politicians to reduce the rate" (whoever those politicians might be).

Tombi!

Sin City wrote: »

Heres a thought, why dont the employed offer their pay as tax and just get the 188 a week like those on the dole. Ye can all be the saviours of the country. Ye wont mind as ye all seem to think that 188 is way too much for people to survive on.

Shall we call Enda and get the ball rolling. Im sure he will be thrilled at the gesture , Im sure the IMF will sit up and take notice then

Don't be so mean!

They should get the extra 50 euro we would get for working full time (except it's not a job the welfare makes it clear). So they should easily be able to survive on 238 a week.

books4sale

Sin City wrote: »

Heres a thought, why dont the employed offer their pay as tax and just get the 188 a week like those on the dole. Ye can all be the saviours of the country. Ye wont mind as ye all seem to think that 188 is way too much for people to survive on.

Shall we call Enda and get the ball rolling. Im sure he will be thrilled at the gesture , Im sure the IMF will sit up and take notice then

That's a pretty dumb idea.

Many have it hard enough to live on 188 a week without sticking everyone else on the dole too.

Personally I couldn't see the present government getting too excited about your suggestions.

Do you work as an ideas person? I hope not, stick to the day job.

Sin City

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Don't be so mean!

They should get the extra 50 euro we would get for working full time (except it's not a job the welfare makes it clear). So they should easily be able to survive on 238 a week.

Ah your too kind, fair play

There you are lads an extra 50 quid

Brutal Deluxe

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Stuck on it?

Yes, stuck, unless you have a job actually lined up somewhere but you're just choosing not to work.

Sin City wrote:

Heres a thought, why dont the employed offer their pay as tax and just get the 188 a week like those on the dole. Ye can all be the saviours of the country. Ye wont mind as ye all seem to think that 188 is way too much for people to survive on.

Shall we call Enda and get the ball rolling. Im sure he will be thrilled at the gesture , Im sure the IMF will sit up and take notice then

Here's a thought, put at least half as much effort into finding a job as you do in making stupid posts, and you may well find yourself employed in no time.

Sin City

books4sale wrote: »

That's a pretty dumb idea.

Many have it hard enough to live on 188 a week without sticking everyone else on the dole too.

Personally I couldn't see the present government getting too excited about your suggestions.

Do you work as an ideas person? I hope not, stick to the day job.

Only one way to find out isnt there

Sin City

bluewolf wrote: »

Yes, stuck, unless you have a job actually lined up somewhere but you're just choosing not to work.



Here's a thought, put at least half as much effort into finding a job as you do in making stupid posts, and you may well find yourself employed in no time.

Taking away your money to kick start the economy is a stupid post?

But taking away from the poor makes perfect sense?

Tombi!

bluewolf wrote: »

Yes, stuck, unless you have a job actually lined up somewhere but you're just choosing not to work.



Here's a thought, put at least half as much effort into finding a job as you do in making stupid posts, and you may well find yourself employed in no time.

Choosing not to work for free =/= choosing not to work.

And please stop calling posts stupid when you think I should waste my time asking can I work for free.

puffishoes

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

So in otherwords, go on Jobbridge. No thank you. I will not be taken advantage of.

no go and find yourself an opportunity for yourself.

how can someone teaching you something be YOU getting taking advantage of?

stop making excuses.

Tombi!

puffishoes wrote: »

no go and find yourself an opportunity for yourself.

how can someone teaching you something be YOU getting taking advantage of?

stop making excuses.

Haha, good one. I'll go now and try to find myself someone who will employee me for free. I'm sure Tesco was on the Jobbridge scam.

Brutal Deluxe

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Choosing not to work for free =/= choosing not to work.

Nobody said they were the same. You're stuck on the dole unless you have a paid job hidden away you're choosing not to take up. Simple logic and an answer to your "stuck?" post.

Anyway, if posting about how ireland doesn't care and how work disgusts you and not reading properly is all you're interested in, I'm out of here
I posted to tell people there are jobs available in case they were interested, not to listen to you complaining there's no point applying for anything

Tombi!

bluewolf wrote: »

Nobody said they were the same. You're stuck on the dole unless you have a paid job hidden away you're choosing not to take up. Simple logic and an answer to your "stuck?" post.

No, not at all.

Your logic was: do some free work so you can get experience.

And why should I work for free? I'd be doing the same stuff if I was paid, just without the reward. Would you honestly feel satisfied being "employed" by some scumbag who will only hire you as slave labour?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

bluewolf wrote: »

Nobody said they were the same. You're stuck on the dole unless you have a paid job hidden away you're choosing not to take up. Simple logic and an answer to your "stuck?" post.

for somebody who has a job you seem to spend an awful lot of time posting on boards...

Tombi!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

for somebody who has a job you seem to spend an awful lot of time posting on boards...

She works for boards. :cool:

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

for somebody who has a job you seem to spend an awful lot of time posting on boards...

I have a review coming up too! Self-description: super productive

puffishoes

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Haha, good one. I'll go now and try to find myself someone who will employee me for free. I'm sure Tesco was on the Jobbridge scam.

right now you say you don't have experience to get a certain amount of jobs.

you offer your time to someone in exchange for them teaching you a skill that you can go and use to gain employment.

I'm not really surprised your unemployed with the attitude you display in this thread I wouldn't have you working in my environment as your lack luster negative attitude would bring down your colleagues.

wake up.

Tombi!

puffishoes wrote: »

right now you say you don't have experience to get a certain amount of jobs.

you offer your time to someone in exchange for them teaching you a skill that you can go and use to gain employment.

I'm not really surprised your unemployed with the attitude you display in this thread I wouldn't have you working in my environment as your lack luster negative attitude would bring down your colleagues.

wake up.

No, I'm comfortable sleeping. I'm quite sure my attitude of "hey lads, how come you get paid and I work for free but do the same stuff" would really bring down the morale.

No, I offer my time for the right to do everything everyone else does, except no payment.

Again, I'm not working for a scumbag. If you want to when you drop down to the dole, that's your choice.

I look for jobs, I apply for jobs, I will accept one when I get one.

That's part of the agreement. So I'm happy.

puffishoes

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

No, I'm comfortable sleeping. I'm quite sure my attitude of "hey lads, how come you get paid and I work for free but do the same stuff" would really bring down the morale.

No, I offer my time for the right to do everything everyone else does, except no payment.

But your time right now is worthless, as you don't have any experience or skills. why would I pay you when I pay someone who is skilled?

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Again, I'm not working for a scumbag. If you want to when you drop down to the dole, that's your choice.

Why would someone who is willing to take a few hours out of their week to teaching you something be a scumbag?

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I look for jobs, I apply for jobs, I will accept one when I get one.

That's part of the agreement. So I'm happy.

you'll go far.

Dave!

JoeGil wrote: »

Firstly I am all for reducing the deficit before the current levels of overspend damage the future of the economy any further.

Glad to hear it, might be worth focusing on that then rather than prying into my personal life.

JoeGil wrote: »

As regards the Australian trip my point had nothing to do with US politics.

No, but it's the same principle though.

JoeGil wrote: »

As somebody who has been fortunate enough to have been able to sudy at third level I don't see you as representative on unemployed people in general who are by and large less qualified and will have difficulty in the long term getting a job.

Did you read my post at all? I said "The dole shouldn't be as high for a 21 year old recent graduate living with mammy and daddy as it is for a parent who recently lost their job and has a mortgage."

So I never claimed to be representative of non-graduates or anyone else. I do however think that a lot of recent graduates who struggle to find work will be living with the parents and do not need the same amount of money as a father of 2 with a mortgage to pay.

Pretty uncontroversial, I would have thought.

JoeGil wrote: »

I would certainly question the motivation of you and your mates to sign on the dole in order to finance a trip to Australia. You may have had excess from your dole payments to do this but the majority of people will will be struggling to get by on the unemployment benefits they receive and will not be waiting on "the politicians to reduce the rate" (whoever those politicians might be).

I didn't "sign on the dole in order to finance a trip to Australia." Again, did you read my post? I said that we were looking for work at the time. I also spent most of my days upskilling and training. I'm sure you'll gladly speculate (as you did in your last post) that we were just on the dole to save for a holiday, but that would be pure conjecture on your part.

"The politicians" would be the elected government, Joan Burton or Brendan Howlin or whoever's remit it falls under. Not sure what's confusing about that.

Tombi!

puffishoes wrote: »

But your time right now is worthless, as you don't have any experience or skills. why would I pay you when I pay someone who is skilled?

Why would someone who is willing to take a few hours out of their week to teaching you something be a scumbag?

you'll go far.

Here's a quick way to solve the issue you and I are having: I'm not breaking the rules. I'm satisfied with life.

But let me ask you something and be honest: would you consider fully based comission jobs to be good enoguh to leave the dole and take those up?

thisguy

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Here's a quick way to solve the issue you and I are having: I'm not breaking the rules. I'm satisfied with life.

But let me ask you something and be honest: would you consider fully based comission jobs to be good enoguh to leave the dole and take those up?

That's part of the problem, you shouldn't be satisfied with life on the dole. It should be a means to simply get by, not something to live comfortably on.

And if you were living uncomfortably you wouldn't be satisfied with life.

Tombi!

thisguy wrote: »

That's part of the problem, you shouldn't be satisfied with life on the dole. It should be a means to simply get by, not something to live comfortably on.

I said satisfied, not comfortable.

Sin City

puffishoes wrote: »

But your time right now is worthless, as you don't have any experience or skills. why would I pay you when I pay someone who is skilled?

How much skill can you get carrying a pot of tea/coffee

puffishoes

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

H
But let me ask you something and be honest: would you consider fully based comission jobs to be good enoguh to leave the dole and take those up?

Sorry, I'm lost, what has commission based jobs got to do your lack of skillset and lack luster approach to job seeking?

Tombi!

Sin City wrote: »

How much skill can you get carrying a pot of tea/coffee

Well if it's anything by what some of the managers told me: you need experience to be able to work in one.

I imagine it's up there with shelf-stacking in Tesco :P

hondasam

bluewolf wrote: »

loads of notices in pub and cafe windows in town looking for people

Are these full time jobs do you know?
Unfortunately the pay will not be enough to encourage people to give up the dole.
Some people will work for €20 more just to have a job but many will not, this is where the system is wrong.
I'm not a fan of JobBridge tbh unless it's a really good placement with a job at the end of it.

Tombi!

puffishoes wrote: »

Sorry, I'm lost, what has commission based jobs got to do your lack of skillset and lack luster approach to job seeking?

Okay, if you think it's lackluster then the SW disagress with you. I'm not breaking the rules, I'm following them.

Personally, I don't care how much you want to insult me or look down upon me. I know what I'm doing is fine so I'm a happy person.

Sin City

puffishoes wrote: »

Sorry, I'm lost, what has commission based jobs got to do your lack of skillset and lack luster approach to job seeking?

Commison based jobs arent really jobs, you cant rely on them. You may not sell anything which means you may not eat that day

Tombi!

Sin City wrote: »

Commison based jobs arent really jobs, you cant rely on them. You may not sell anything which means you may not eat that day

That was what I was wondering, how many of the begrudgers/high on their horse people would tell people on the dole to get a "job" like that.

I'd imagine a lot. Though one of the lads at the SW told me (in no uncertain terms) never to risk getting a job with something like that.

puffishoes

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Well if it's anything by what some of the managers told me: you need experience to be able to work in one.

I imagine it's up there with shelf-stacking in Tesco :P

if you live in Dublin you should take an hour or two out and go to a coffee shop called 3FE.

Watch how much skill is involved in delivering high quality speciality coffee.
The customer service skills required to deal with what can be very knowledgeable customers.

Maybe if you remove your head from your arse for 10 minutes and have a look around you you might actually see what's going on.

The funny thing is you're not even deemed employable enough to carry a pot of tea yet slate people working in tesco's?

Embarrassing.

Tombi!

puffishoes wrote: »

if you live in Dublin you should take an hour or two out and go to a coffee shop called 3FE.

Watch how much skill is involved in delivering high quality speciality coffee.
The customer service skills required to deal with what can be very knowledgeable customers.

Maybe if you remove your head from your arse for 10 minutes and have a look around you you might actually see what's going on.

The funny thing is you're not even deemed employable enough to carry a pot of tea yet slate people working in tesco's?

Embarrassing.

Irony is lost on you.

You say it takes experience. Most of them list it as "one year's experience required" on various sites.
Nine months is how long a Jobbridge scheme is. Tesco advertised on there.

That's the funny part of it. But sure, feel free to insult me some more and imply I was insulting others.

solarith

Keep the dole as it is, but if the person is fit and healthy - there's plenty litter to be picked up, plenty houses to be painted, plenty potholes to be filled. If they are fit and healthy - they can do these tasks, or can sit at home and get nothing.

JohnMarston

I'm on a jobbridge internship at the moment. Let me tell you, its preferable to being on the dole. You're gaining experience and can put down on your CV that you're currently working, a huge plus to signing on every week.

As well as that, you feel you're earning your dole rather than just collecting it.
I'm well aware of the arguments against jobbridge, and some are valid (i.e open to exploitation) but the whole 'slave labour' point is not one of them. You're not held in servitude to your boss (aka mentor) during the internship. There is nothing to prevent you from seeking work during it. And its one way of showing a potential employer that you havent been sitting around doing nothing.

smash

Deleted User wrote: »

i live on 101 euro a week its very hard you know i eat only once a day if im cut anymore i dunno what i will do

My local butcher has a deal of 2 sirloin steaks, a portion of gratin potatoes and a tray of Mediterranean veg for €10. This is 2 days dinner for a single person. A home made sandwich for lunch and cereal for breakfast is very cheap too...

puffishoes

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Okay, if you think it's lackluster then the SW disagress with you. I'm not breaking the rules, I'm following them.

Personally, I don't care how much you want to insult me or look down upon me. I know what I'm doing is fine so I'm a happy person.

The SW don't give two hoots what you do on a Sunday. What has it got to do with you not being creative or inventive enough to find your self opportunities for work?

Tombi!

solarith wrote: »

Keep the dole as it is, but if the person is fit and healthy - there's plenty litter to be picked up, plenty houses to be painted, plenty potholes to be filled. If they are fit and healthy - they can do these tasks, or can sit at home and get nothing.

Won't work. I know plenty of lads who got forced into courses and just use the "can't make it in, too sick".

Sick notes, doctors, follow ups from the welfare and so on make it too easy to sit on your arse all day.

Sin City

puffishoes wrote: »

if you live in Dublin you should take an hour or two out and go to a coffee shop called 3FE.

Watch how much skill is involved in delivering high quality speciality coffee.
The customer service skills required to deal with what can be very knowledgeable customers.

Maybe if you remove your head from your arse for 10 minutes and have a look around you you might actually see what's going on.

The funny thing is you're not even deemed employable enough to carry a pot of tea yet slate people working in tesco's?

Embarrassing.

Will they leave anyone off the street make coffee for their customers?
Again who pays the insurence costs?


No one is slating anyone in tescos mate,

puffishoes

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Irony is lost on you.

You say it takes experience. Most of them list it as "one year's experience required" on various sites.
Nine months is how long a Jobbridge scheme is. Tesco advertised on there.

A good employer will hire someone who shows a bit of grit a bit of determination a bit of get up and go quicker than someone who's sat on their arse for x amount of years.

stop making excuses you're like a 5yr old child not wanting to go to school.

ninebeanrows

It is absolutely true that if the dole was cut off that there would be less unemployed people.

It's a tough pill to swallow for some but it is true.

Obviously there are a large amount of people who get the dole and need every last cent but then there is also a large number of people on the dole cos it's easy and they've gotten used to it. People who have no intention of getting a job unless it falls on their lap.

There just needs to be more enforcement, people forced onto internship schemes and the likes.

The fact is people on the dole can get 188 a week + potential rent allowance.

While somebody can be in work for 45 hours a week for 5 days and take home 350 euro a week. With the cost of rent+ extra food+ transport, one would only be a small bit better off (perhaps less well off) than being on the dole.

This is simply going to disincentivise people from working.

It may not be PC or popular opinion on here but there is no hiding the facts.