The Dark Knight Rises - seen thread *SPOILERS WITHIN* See Mod Warning in first post

Sad Professor

I don't see how TDKR is any more fantastical than the other two. Begins is easily the least realistic of the films. All the gliding around, the being pulled after trains, the diving off buildings, the microwave emitter, etc. In TDKR he smashes concrete and has a VTOL-type aircraft that he flies around in.

Dempsey

Having the majority of GCPD run into the sewers was lazy writing imo. Surely there are protocols for putting so many officers in immediate danger. Surely martial law would have to be declared first or some sort of contingency plan would have to be in place first.

In terms of far fetched, free energy is off the scale when compared to evaporating water using microwave emitters

8-10

hightower1 wrote: »

No, wayne tower in the nolan movies is actually the Chicago board or trade building. Trump tower Chicago looks nothing like it.

I meant in the new movie:

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6228/6289902079_8bec3a7a7f_z.jpg

jmcgold

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Bane was fantastic, loved him.

But overall the movie was a bit of a let down; scenes like Bane and Batman fighting on the steps amongst thousands of cops just came across as old and tired. The scenes involving the bomb trucks and the tumblers were slow and unexciting. As was the joint scene with Batman and Catwoman fighting on the roof tops, everything looked quite staged, slow-moving and frankly uninteresting.

Did anyone see it in the Vue in Liffey Valley? Saw it in screen 2 and the sound was APPALLING. The surround channels were deafening and the dialogue was muddy and under-volumed, everyone I was with struggled to make out most of the dialogue. Quite disappointed at that.

Yep saw it in screen 1 this afternoon. Very muffled dialogue (not just bane). Also sounded like a speaker had a tear in it for some bass heavy scenes. Is it just vue or is the sound mix for the film screwed?

Dempsey

jmcgold wrote: »

Yep saw it in screen 1 this afternoon. Very muffled dialogue (not just bane). Also sounded like a speaker had a tear in it for some bass heavy scenes. Is it just vue or is the sound mix for the film screwed?

Id say its the cinema, I'd had no problems with any part of the dialogue of the film where i saw it.

spankmaster2000

Just back from seeing it.

I could write 5000 words about things I liked, things I didn't like, questions, thoughts, feelings, etc, etc.

I do just have one question though.

At the end of TDK and the beginning of this film, I could understand why Bruce hung up the mantle; the "Harvey Dent lie" kept the streets safer, combined with his mourning for Rachel, his status on the "wrong" side of the law, etc.

But at the end of this one, I didn't "get" why he was so happy to retire?

Anyone?
(Sorry, I'm not picking holes; maybe it just flew over my head!)

Professey Chin

spankmaster2000 wrote: »

At the end of TDK and the beginning of this film, I could understand why Bruce hung up the mantle; the "Harvey Dent lie" kept the streets safer, combined with his mourning for Rachel, his status on the "wrong" side of the law, etc.

But at the end of this one, I didn't "get" why he was so happy to retire?

Anyone?
(Sorry, I'm not picking holes; maybe it just flew over my head!)

He finally found peace. Was able to move past his parents death & Rachels death and actually live his life. Leaving the protector mantle to someone whos still on a mission for justice.

Handsome Bob

spankmaster2000 wrote: »

Just back from seeing it.

I could write 5000 words about things I liked, things I didn't like, questions, thoughts, feelings, etc, etc.

I do just have one question though.

At the end of TDK and the beginning of this film, I could understand why Bruce hung up the mantle; the "Harvey Dent lie" kept the streets safer, combined with his mourning for Rachel, his status on the "wrong" side of the law, etc.

But at the end of this one, I didn't "get" why he was so happy to retire?

Anyone?
(Sorry, I'm not picking holes; maybe it just flew over my head!)

One of the themes of the film is pain and how you get over it. Bruce has let pain define and dominate his life and the Batman persona is the personification of this. In order to finally move on, he had to let Batman go.

Dempsey

spankmaster2000 wrote: »

Just back from seeing it.

I could write 5000 words about things I liked, things I didn't like, questions, thoughts, feelings, etc, etc.

I do just have one question though.

At the end of TDK and the beginning of this film, I could understand why Bruce hung up the mantle; the "Harvey Dent lie" kept the streets safer, combined with his mourning for Rachel, his status on the "wrong" side of the law, etc.

But at the end of this one, I didn't "get" why he was so happy to retire?

Anyone?
(Sorry, I'm not picking holes; maybe it just flew over my head!)

1) Alfred revealed the truth about Rachel and her feelings towards him and burst his bubble about what he was holding onto

2) He saw Selina Kyle in that catwoman suit :pac:

Teyla Emmagan

I actually preferred it to the last one. Overall, it was less boring. Except for Bane, that could have been anyone, and I could only understand half what he said.

Sean Quagmire

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Did anyone see it in the Vue in Liffey Valley? Saw it in screen 2 and the sound was APPALLING. The surround channels were deafening and the dialogue was muddy and under-volumed, everyone I was with struggled to make out most of the dialogue. Quite disappointed at that.

I saw it in screen 2 at 7pm Saturday. The first thing I thought was how bad the sound was, it was shocking. (And the screen was clipped). Made it hard to understand bane.

That aside, I wish I could say I loved this film but I didn't.
I avoided all trailors, sneak peeks and ads for over a year so maybe thats why I feel a bit empty.

The music was great. Bane is not a deep character, to add to that they felt the need to explain his shallow history like the viewer is an idiot. The complete confession by Miranda tait at the end just added to it. it was way too over explained.

BB 9
TDK 9.5
TDKR 7.5

Liam O

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I actually preferred it to the last one. Overall, it was less boring. Except for Bane, that could have been anyone, and I could only understand half what he said.

How on Earth could Bane have been "anyone"? Did you even see the movie?

brianregan09

Anyone else think they made a stupid decision by putting the football field collapsing in the trailer ?:? that would been a real WTF moment had we not known it was coming

richymcdermott

seeing the film yesterday and i gave the film a 5/10

thinking about it today i now give it a 6.5/10

this was a average film but not at fault at christopher nolan nor david s goyer or any of the staff and crew because i believe if heath ledger were still alive himself and bane would have had a bigger role in this and gotham would seriously looked like it was going to burn, although this film has alot of positives there was was just amount of cons in this film for me . i have to see this film again when it comes out on dvd but i give a list of what i found wrong and hopefully some can clarify for me it change my thoughts on the film.

.When Alfred leaves Bruce he now feels alone , Alfred is basically a father to bruce so i found it annoying that Bruce would sleep with talia and seem to forget about alfred after that point, even if he is vulnerable up till that point i would of thought bruce never do that.

. too many cameos from loads of actors left actors who deserved screentime not getting as much like commissioner Gordon . Alfred, even bane deserved more screentime than he got. i felt they either should of split the movie into 2 parts than try to cram every actor into it.

.i know this was closely going by the knightfall book and alfred left bruce but i was hoping that afred would come back and be the rock to say to bruce you can do this . as he said in the film i looked after you like you were my own son and him just to walk away like that i just couldnt see alfred doing that without coming back.

. i never felt we saw bruce struggle mentally , bane was suppose to be the character batman feared the most and although he took an awful beating and when seeing bane lift him up and break his spine i was like OMG nolan actually broke the bats back, i always felt bruce had things under control . bane was suppose to be the villan who was always 2 steps ahead of batman so when batman seeing him the second time i thought it was annoying bane was all surprised to see batman out of the hole.

.as i sensed it was talia the whole way through the way herself and bane diedi thought was just either a big smack in the face of the characters or chris didnt know how to end the story so they basically did the neo vs agent smith scene , just end it . felt very rushed and all that lead up ended to nothing.


those are a few of my grips , its a film that people will love and i really wished i was one of you all who enjoyed it but i just cant set away my annoyance with the film . even why put in scarecrow and just ignore him then . felt like a waste.

anyways my final thoughts , it was a film im glad i seen and as part of a trilogy i bow to christopher nolan and the team , im going to see this again and give it another go when its on dvd and i pray i love it.

also anyone feelng talia isnt actually dead and she is carrying bruce baby damien wayne .

Sad Professor

Re: the ending

A few people have suggested that Bruce surviving feels like a studio tacked on ending because it is at odds with the themes dealt with in the previous films. I disagree. Quite the contrary, I think if you re-watch BB and TDK you'll see that Nolan was always concerned with the soul of the man beneath the mask. Part of this is due to Nolan's scepticism about the whole idea of Batman and what Bruce tries to achieve with it. Bruce believes that he can save Gotham, but can Gotham really be saved? And even if it can, will Bruce be able to let go of the pain that made him become Batman in the first place? Can he move on?

In Begins, Alfred worries about Bruce's future and expresses the fear that he is getting lost inside the "monster" that he has created. At the end of the film Rachel tells him that she believes the true Bruce Wayne never returned - he was even declared dead. The Bruce Wayne that did return to Gotham was merely a disguise to protect his true identity as Batman. But she tells him that maybe one day, when Gotham no longer needs Batman, the real Bruce, the man she loved, will come back. However, by the time of TDK Rachel has given up on Bruce, believing that he has been lost to the Batman. Her subsequent death at the hands of the Joker is seemingly the nail in the coffin of Bruce's chances for a normal life.

Part of the problem for Bruce is that he's trying to make things so that Gotham doesn't need Batman. Despite Ra's frequent declarations in Begins that the city is beyond saving, Bruce believes it's not too late. As he tells Gordon at the end of Begins, "we can bring Gotham back". However, ultimately Nolan's Gotham seems to be beyond true salvation. Like its comic counterpart, Gotham is eternally perched on a knife edge with only Batman stopping it from falling into the abyss. At the end of TDK, he and Gordon achieve a peace, the greatest peace the city has had in decades. But it's all based on a lie. At the time this lie seemed like the only option available to them, allowing Gotham to get by without the need for a Batman. The destructive manner in which this lie comes back to haunt them in TDKR suggests that it was the wrong choice. Despite Bruce's best hopes, I think it's clear by the end of TDKR that Gotham will probably always need a dark knight to protect it.

This is why, for Nolan, Bruce dying to save Gotham is not a satisfying ending in itself. Nolan's real concern is salvation of the individual. Batman is a symbol and that symbol will live on without Bruce. The question in TDKR is whether the man currently inhabiting that symbol can find a life beyond the cape and the cowl given that his best chance for a normal life Rachel is dead. While I don't consider it an Inception-style ending as such, I do think the cafe scene is open to interpretation depending on whether you believe Bruce chose to escape at the end. Taken on face value, I'd consider Bruce's rebirth in a new life, far away from Gotham, to be very much in keeping with the themes Nolan explored in the previous films.

johnny_ultimate

I don't think it's the theory behind the ending that has people irked - indeed, I really like the whole fact that Wayne was always a few steps ahead, which really plays into the character as per the comics. Like the Bat Sonar (absurd thought it is), I have always appreciated the way Bruce Wayne is planning ahead in these films, utilising the technology he know he'll need somewhere along the line. It's more whether the shot of Wayne was completely necessary, and I agree having Alfred smiling would probably have been a nicer, more subtle way to cut it off.

However, I ****ing loved the final shot of the platform rising / cut to black. A more fitting, thematically appropriate conclusion I could not imagine. Subtle it ain't, brilliant it is.

irish_stevo815

Seen this earlier.....it was truly epic. The last 10 minutes were an emotional rollercoaster.

Did anyone else think that Selina Kyle's friend was gonna be Harley Quinn....or did she have her name mentioned?

Corholio

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I don't think it's the theory behind the ending that has people irked - indeed, I really like the whole fact that Wayne was always a few steps ahead, which really plays into the character as per the comics. Like the Bat Sonar (absurd thought it is), I have always appreciated the way Bruce Wayne is planning ahead in these films, utilising the technology he know he'll need somewhere along the line. It's more whether the shot of Wayne was completely necessary, and I agree having Alfred smiling would probably have been a nicer, more subtle way to cut it off.

However, I ****ing loved the final shot of the platform rising / cut to black. A more fitting, thematically appropriate conclusion I could not imagine. Subtle it ain't, brilliant it is.

Could not agree more. Didn't hit me until I left the cinema what an appropriate and visually satisfying ending that was.

efb

Inspector Coptoor

Really enjoyed the film.

Few holes in it as has been said.

It did seem to take ideas/scenes wholesale from books/movies.

My main one was:
When Batman got into the Bat with the bomb, all I could think of was the scene in Angels & Demons when the camerlengo does the same thing using the helicopter and parachutes out just before the bomb goes off.

Goldstein

I dunno lads, I thought it was pretty awesome, fitting, emotionally resonant and more than worthy way to finish the trilogy. It was never going to surpass TDK which is one of the best blockbusters of the last decade and the best comic book/superhero movie ever made.

Sad Professor wrote: »

I don't see how TDKR is any more fantastical than the other two. Begins is easily the least realistic of the films. All the gliding around, the being pulled after trains, the diving off buildings, the microwave emitter, etc. In TDKR he smashes concrete and has a VTOL-type aircraft that he flies around in.

A big thumbs up to that. The film was certainly no less realistic than its predecessors - remember the tumbler all but flying along tiled rooftops in BB? Batman and Rachel plummetting 10s of stories onto a car without a scratch in TDK? The window specific glide into One International Finance Centre in Hong Kong from TDK? Have they seen the F-35 VTOL currently in service or kept up with what the National Ignition Facility / JET etc. are up to these days? Fusion only has about a billion funding p/a. A company like Apple today has the punch and 10s of billions in the bank to make it happen within a decade or so.

I really liked Bane. He was never supposed to be The Joker mark II. Unfortunately for some critics he didn't develop rocket proof skin either. Seriously like? What was supposed to happen there apart from him dying? The abrupt departure made a refreshing change from the clichéd see-it-a-mile-off comeuppance - we'd just witnessed the seminal and decisive fight between Batman and Bane - we didn't need yet another one.

The back-breaking scene could well be the best scene in the entire trilogy - there was stunned silence when that happened. It was brilliant.

Also the Teal'c cameo!!!!

Dempsey

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

However, I ****ing loved the final shot of the platform rising / cut to black. A more fitting, thematically appropriate conclusion I could not imagine. Subtle it ain't, brilliant it is.

Im not a fan of scenes after the credits but Alfred sitting there at the cafe, raising his glass and smiling would have done the trick there and Nolan could have still ended the film with John Blake taking up the mantle with Hans Zimmer music blaring before cutting to black.

Sad Professor

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I don't think it's the theory behind the ending that has people irked - indeed, I really like the whole fact that Wayne was always a few steps ahead, which really plays into the character as per the comics. Like the Bat Sonar (absurd thought it is), I have always appreciated the way Bruce Wayne is planning ahead in these films, utilising the technology he know he'll need somewhere along the line. It's more whether the shot of Wayne was completely necessary, and I agree having Alfred smiling would probably have been a nicer, more subtle way to cut it off.

However, I ****ing loved the final shot of the platform rising / cut to black. A more fitting, thematically appropriate conclusion I could not imagine. Subtle it ain't, brilliant it is.

I think if Nolan wanted an Inception-style ending then Alfred smiling at something off-screen is exactly how he would have ended it. But I don't think he wanted an ambiguous ending. The nuclear bomb explosion leads the viewer to conclude that Batman/Bruce has died, meaning Gotham is without its dark knight and Bruce has died tragically. The subsequent montage reveals that neither is true: Bruce didn't die, nor did Batman, both are reborn in new forms. I don't think you can have JGL discovering the bat cave without the accompanying cafe scene.

Besides, I think a shot of Alfred just smiling would have frustrated and annoyed audiences more than anything else (see The Sopranos). At least with the current ending most people will take it at face value that Bruce survived, while the people who have difficulty believing it was possible for him to do so have their "dream" theory.

Goldstein

Sad Professor wrote: »

I think if Nolan wanted an Inception-style ending then Alfred smiling at something off-screen is exactly how he would have ended it. But I don't think he wanted an ambiguous ending. The nuclear bomb explosion leads the viewer to conclude that Batman/Bruce has died, meaning Gotham is without its dark knight and Bruce has died tragically. The subsequent montage reveals that neither is true: Bruce didn't die, nor did Batman, both are reborn in new forms. I don't think you can have JGL discovering the bat cave without the accompanying cafe scene.

Besides, I think a shot of Alfred just smiling would have frustrated and annoyed audiences more than anything else (see The Sopranos). At least with the current ending most people will take it at face value that Bruce survived, while the people who have difficulty believing it was possible for him to do so have their "dream" theory.

You just know that discussion was held ad-nausium about whether to include the Bruce/Selina shot or not. I agree the only reason it's there is Nolan wanted certainty and a completely unambiguous ending the opposite to Inception. He wanted Bruce Wayne to come out the other side of Batman - he wanted him to triumph in the end. The dream thing is just wishful thinking, the intent of the ending is crystal clear.

Sierra Oscar

Thinking of going to see this with a mate tomorrow in either Cineworld or the Savoy in Dublin. Do you reckon we will have to book a ticket online, or will things have calmed down a little considering it will be a Monday night?

Goldstein

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Thinking of going to see this with a mate tomorrow in either Cineworld or the Savoy in Dublin. Do you reckon we will have to book a ticket online, or will things have calmed down a little considering it will be a Monday night?

Get out of this thread now for the love of God lest you spoil the film for yourself!

Sad Professor

There's a spoiler-free thread here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055899107

But to answer your question, yes, you should book in advance.

Dman001

Decided to give The Sunday Times' review of TDKR a quick read while it was sitting in front of me (hey don't judge me )

Had to agree with a number of points the reviewer made though. One being his criticism of Bane, and the viewers difficulty to grasp the villain's motivations through his mask and muttered speeches. Thankfully I didn't have much of a problem understanding Bane as other people did, but you do really have to concentrate when he was speaking and it is hard to determine the emotion with his mask covering his mouth.

PhiloCypher

Went to see this last night but decided to let my thoughts simmer a little before weighing in , during this time I came across this post which was left by an Albert Turner on Clothes on Film where he argues against the reviewers assertion that Alfred is dreaming merely because Selina never wears anything but black .

http://clothesonfilm.com/review-the-dark-knight-rises/27376/

Very very thoughtful review – and well written.

But I think Nolan left too many pointers to Bruce’s survival. The ending montage is the most important climax of the film. These ending moments are the closure moments for the last film in the trilogy; the most important moments in the whole series.

And what do we learn? Bruce left a hopeful sign for to all the most important people in the film:

He left the GPS address for the Bat Cave to Blake so he could fill his hero’s shoes.

He left the truth about the fixed auto pilot for Fox (who’s men found out by looking at a VERY lightly damaged Bat, by the way).

For Gordon, he left a fixed Bat signal letting him know that Batman would still be available (probably through Blake.) Gordon smiles in joyful disbelief and looks to the skies.

And for Alfred, his dearest, most trusted friend and only real family, he left the knowledge of a missing necklace. Missing only AFTER Bruce had already taken it back from Selina at the charity ball. A necklace they both knew had a tracking device Bruce put in it. The tracking of the necklace leads Alfred to the cafe in Florence that Bruce heard Alfred speak of. As soon as Alfred sees Bruce he nods with a shocked look – he then immediately gets up to leave as quickly as possible- avoiding a scene that could draw too much attention and interrupt his dream come true – Bruce moving on with his life. There is no reminiscing or indulging any “vision”.

For Selina – who saved his life as Bane put a shot gun to his head – he leaves her with himself. Saying “yes’ to her invitation earlier to run away with him.

If this vision is not real though – he leaves her with nothing in this most important montage. (Remember, she’s as important as Blake in this movie – a redeemed heroine who does more to save Batman than anyone – so she deserves something in the montage portion.)

Maybe most importantly – If Alfred’s vision is not real – then it means Bruce literally killed himself. He would have had the autopilot option, but decided to COMMIT SUICIDE. Whatever else you might say – I don’t think Bruce is desperately suicidal. Its not a strong theme in the trilogy. And it would be a very strange and sad last will and testament to Alfred – who’s only desire all movie long was threat Brice have a life.

The final clincher is the music. The montage has a sweeping romantic score – beautiful grand sweeping strings – that is until Alfred sees Bruce. Then immediately the marshall beat of Batman bangs in big time. HUGE drums. This is not the soundtrack of a melancholy sad wishful dream – its the soundtrack of victory. Strange, bad music choice for a fantasy.

How does he survive the bomb? Well – I don’t know. Its not nuclear, it has no radiation. And whatever it did to the Bat – it was in good enough shape for Fox’s men to evaluate the fixed autopilot.

p.s. – if you look closely at the first instant we see of Bruce and Selina – (today – anyway – you can find this whole montage on youtube via “TDKR ending”) it looks like she is taking something off of her neck and handing to Bruce. He then looks down at it and smiles. Maybe saying “put the necklace away for now, because the mission is complete”.

Anyhow – that’s my take. ….We’ll all be debating for ages!

Its pretty open and shut for me . Its real . Alfred wasn't wistfully dreaming it.

errlloyd

I take issue with how **** Bane's tumblers were compared to Batman's.

I also find it weird that he broke into the armoury, and apparently all he stole was tumblers?