The Dark Knight Rises - seen thread *SPOILERS WITHIN* See Mod Warning in first post

Overheal

Chancer3001 wrote: »

didnt he fix the autopilot though? Would he fix it on an incomplete prototype?

Patch to the autopilot software would have rolled out to both.

I still dont get my first question. they wanted Gotham to suffer? Why? Why not just blow it up?

a bomb with a 6 mile radius? The whole agenda of the League of Shadows was to burn society down so it could be rebuilt again, like a controlled burn of an overgrown forest. The idea was to prevent civilization from stagnating, which Gotham has. With Gotham destroyed it would have forced the world into change. When you think about it, isn't that what Hiroshima kinda did?

Chancer3001

exactly. they wanted to destroy Gotham. So why not do it straight away? Why waste a few months?

val_jester

Chancer3001 wrote: »

exactly. they wanted to destroy Gotham. So why not do it straight away? Why waste a few months?

Because that is not what the league of shadows is about, they wanted to destroy the spirit of the people and use Gotham as an example of what is wrong with modern society. By blowing it up straight away they would get their message across, it would just be destruction and people would want to rebuild Gotham like it was before. As has been pointed out the whole purpose of the destruction of Gotham was because civilisation had stagnated and the town was so corrupt they believed the only way to solve it was by destroying it.

One of the main parts of the film is the whole Bane speech about how there can be no despair without hope. If they blew the city up straight away, the world would be angry but their reaction would be to rebuild and continue the way they were going. The point of pretending to let the people have a chance to redeem themselves was to give them hope before ultimately crushing their spirit. It would show the world that they could do nothing to stop the league of shadows.

But the main reason why they didn't blow it up straight away, was because that would have left an hour long movie with a terrible ending.

Chazz Michael Michaels

I have no issue with so called 'plot holes', as mentioned above. I was just so very bored by the whole thing. When compared to TDK, the dialogue just seemed very dumbed down and uninteresting, nothing to make really you think. Nothing that would require a second viewing to fully appreciate. I mean, I watched the first two films this week in anticipation and I was still surprised by some elements of the dialogue that I missed the first time. That's a sign of quality writing. TDKR had nothing like that, just in your face, popcorn munching rubbish... maybe rubbish is harsh, but it was just such a big let down. I came to expect more from the Nolans, something with more layers. More class.

I suppose I could put it like this, if you sat me down with this movie, with no knowledge of who directed or wrote it, I never would have said the Nolans. I would have assumed that the franchise was passed on to one of these directors who handles these generic knock offs for the popcorn munching masses.

The whole thing just stinks of Avatar, to me. So overrhyped, that "it just gotta be the greatest film ever, it just gotta be!"


PS: I thought this was a good read:

The Dark Knight Rises: 10 Ways It Didn’t Live Up To The Hype

Skinfull

val_jester wrote: »

There isn't lazy scriptwriting, that is one thing you can't accuse the writers of. Everything that happens in the film has an explanation.

Actually I can. That scene where Catwoman is talking to the gangster guy who promised her the clean slate, she has him on the ground and is asking him where he is, and he proceeded to ask if it was the clean slate she wanted? And then explained what it would do, how it would work, and what she would need it for.

Yes this information was needed by us, the audience, we needed to know her motivation, yadda yadda yadda, but this conversation shouldn't have been between two characters who knew what the object was. That scene was all a little monty python. Maybe catwoman could have explained it to that little blond pickpocket chick she was hanging out with.

That scene really took me out of the moment. There was another instance like that I cant recall now though.

splashthecash

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

I have no issue with so called 'plot holes', as mentioned above. I was just so very bored by the whole thing. When compared to TDK, the dialogue just seemed very dumbed down and uninteresting, nothing to make really you think. Nothing that would require a second viewing to fully appreciate. I mean, I watched the first two films this week in anticipation and I was still surprised by some elements of the dialogue that I missed the first time. That's a sign of quality writing. TDKR had nothing like that, just in your face, popcorn munching rubbish... maybe rubbish is harsh, but it was just such a big let down. I came to expect more from the Nolans, something with more layers. More class.

I suppose I could put it like this, if you sat me down with this movie, with no knowledge of who directed or wrote it, I never would have said the Nolans. I would have assumed that the franchise was passed on to one of these directors who handles these generic knock offs for the popcorn munching masses.

The whole thing just stinks of Avatar, to me. So overrhyped, that "it just gotta be the greatest film ever, it just gotta be!"


PS: I thought this was a good read:

The Dark Knight Rises: 10 Ways It Didn’t Live Up To The Hype

You say that when you watched the TDK you found new bits of dialogue that you missed the first time - maybe you require a second viewing for TDKR?

SantryRed

Great movie. The nit picking is ridiculous on this thread though.

Kinski

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

I came to expect more from the Nolans, something with more layers. More class.

I suppose I could put it like this, if you sat me down with this movie, with no knowledge of who directed or wrote it, I never would have said the Nolans.

Their best work is certainly more complex and multifaceted than anything the masses will ever appreciate.

Ellian

Sad Professor wrote: »

As Handsome Bob suggested earlier, I think the sheer fact that Bruce escaped from the prison shattered Bane's confidence. Bane wasn't able escape himself and didn't believe that a man like Bruce could either. In addition, after seeing what Bane had done to his city, Bruce was more motivated than ever to defeat him. Where as previously he probably wasn't taking Bane seriously enough.

There's a line in The Dark Knight Returns where Batman gets his arse handed to him by a foe first time around and then manages to defeat in the second clash - there was a line that something like "my mistake was to try and fight him like I am a young man" - I think Bane said something similar in the sewer fight mocking him - I couldn't really make it out, but that's what I assumed was the difference the second time around - that and the fact that Batman was focussing an awful lot of his energy on the pain controlling mask..

Kinski

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

PS: I thought this was a good read:

The Dark Knight Rises: 10 Ways It Didn’t Live Up To The Hype

#2, his points about the ending, are excellent. I do not understand why people have gone nuts for it.

One of the flaws of TDK was its dual-climax structure, which saw Batman confront the Joker, and then Dent...just incredibly drawn out. But I loved the final sequence, where Batman flees while Gordon explains why to his son.

TDKR, on the other hand, left me fairly cold.

krudler

Kinski wrote: »

#2, his points about the ending, are excellent. I do not understand why people have gone nuts for it.

One of the flaws of TDK was its dual-climax structure, which saw Batman confront the Joker, and then Dent...just incredibly drawn out. But I loved the final sequence, where Batman flees while Gordon explains why to his son.

TDKR, on the other hand, left me fairly cold.

Agreed, as cool a moment as the shot of Blake's "rising" was, he's a rookie cop with no martial arts training (that we know of, he can handle himself in a fight though) whereas Bruce was a physically fit, trained by ninjas for years guy. Blake's first outing as Batman would probably be the same as Kick-Ass :pac: Batman makes fun of the imposters in TDK, isnt that just exactly what Blake has become? putting on the suit don't make you Batman son.

spankmaster2000

During the Bane / Miranda Tata reveal at the end, all I could think of was this:



And once again, Bane was reduced to "assistant" status; rather than the criminal genius that was promised...

krudler

Yeah that pissed me off too, Bane isn't a criminal mastermind, he's a lovesick lackie at the end of it all.

Chazz Michael Michaels

splashthecash wrote: »

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

I have no issue with so called 'plot holes', as mentioned above. I was just so very bored by the whole thing. When compared to TDK, the dialogue just seemed very dumbed down and uninteresting, nothing to make really you think. Nothing that would require a second viewing to fully appreciate. I mean, I watched the first two films this week in anticipation and I was still surprised by some elements of the dialogue that I missed the first time. That's a sign of quality writing. TDKR had nothing like that, just in your face, popcorn munching rubbish... maybe rubbish is harsh, but it was just such a big let down. I came to expect more from the Nolans, something with more layers. More class.

I suppose I could put it like this, if you sat me down with this movie, with no knowledge of who directed or wrote it, I never would have said the Nolans. I would have assumed that the franchise was passed on to one of these directors who handles these generic knock offs for the popcorn munching masses.

The whole thing just stinks of Avatar, to me. So overrhyped, that "it just gotta be the greatest film ever, it just gotta be!"


PS: I thought this was a good read:

The Dark Knight Rises: 10 Ways It Didn’t Live Up To The Hype

You say that when you watched the TDK you found new bits of dialogue that you missed the first time - maybe you require a second viewing for TDKR?

No, because the first time I watched TDK I loved it and picked up on the clever ideas and philosophies within. TDKR had none of that. Incoherent and lacking any original ideas. About an hour in my inner voice was liike 'Uh, Chazz, is this crap?'. I didn't want it to be ****, but as the film stumbled along I just had the dawning realisation that I was watching a boring film, even though I really wanted it to be good. That's the difference between me and those swept away by the hype machine. I simply accepted the truth. :-)

veXual

Maybe I'm looking a bit too much into it but I noticed how the theme of rising was subtly evident through out.

The most obvious one is Bruce's climb from the pit but it was worked in on a much more subliminal level as well.

Almost every time we see the 'Batcave' the platforms rise from the ground a subtle hint towards rising. Also any time Batman attempts to escape he seems to rise above whatever obstacle is in his way. For example when he's been chased on the batpod and is cornered he makes his escape by jumping/rising above the police and again when he's cornered he employs the use of the bat to 'rise' and make his aerial escape.

Prior to his confrontation with Bane he goes underground where aerial escape is not an option thus leading to his demise.

There's a real subterranean theme with Bane as well his worst work is done underground or he is seen climbing from a hole to destroy the stadium and Gotham.

I've only really began to appreciate cinematography in films lately and it was on my second viewing that I really appreciated it in this film.

abouttobebanned

Am I the only one who thought bane sounded liked morla?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K311uSEf-3k

krudler

by far my favourite moment of the movie was the dozens and dozens of cop cars chasing Batman after the Wall St raid(which happened during daytime as it was trading hours but its night a few mins later during the chase, more nitpicking! :pac: )

al28283

krudler wrote: »

by far my favourite moment of the movie was the dozens and dozens of cop cars chasing Batman after the Wall St raid(which happened during daytime as it was trading hours but its night a few mins later during the chase, more nitpicking! :pac: )

The bit where they drove motorbikes out of the stock exchange building?:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bed1Vgl-a7k

Sleepy

Is all the grandstanding nit-picking of this movie reminding anyone else of Sheldon Cooper?

It seems like there's a significant chunk of the fans who just want to find fault but I don't think I've heard anyone say that it's without fault. The griping seems like pointing out that you don't like cress when it's served to you as the garnish on a perfectly cooked fillet steak.

norrie rugger

dorkacle wrote: »

Seriously looks like it doesn't it! Tbh I find it very annoying that these days hollywood can't simply end a movie without leaving some sort of hint or opening for a potential sequel or spin off....
The Joker was done so well and you can't help but feel if Ledger was still alive, maybe there would have been a couple of more movies involving his awesome character.

Ehhhhh. contradict much?

al28283

Sleepy wrote: »

Is all the grandstanding nit-picking of this movie reminding anyone else of Sheldon Cooper?

It seems like there's a significant chunk of the fans who just want to find fault but I don't think I've heard anyone say that it's without fault. The griping seems like pointing out that you don't like cress when it's served to you as the garnish on a perfectly cooked fillet steak.

i don't know who that is but people can point out whatever they want about the movie.

Chazz Michael Michaels

Sleepy wrote: »

Is all the grandstanding nit-picking of this movie reminding anyone else of Sheldon Cooper?

It seems like there's a significant chunk of the fans who just want to find fault but I don't think I've heard anyone say that it's without fault. The griping seems like pointing out that you don't like cress when it's served to you as the garnish on a perfectly cooked fillet steak.

Rather more like fresh cress served on a warm turd.

spankmaster2000

Sleepy wrote: »

It seems like there's a significant chunk of the fans who just want to find fault but I don't think I've heard anyone say that it's without fault. The griping seems like pointing out that you don't like cress when it's served to you as the garnish on a perfectly cooked fillet steak.

I'd compare it more to a carefully placed After-Eight on top of that perfectly cooked steak.

Aperitif, starters, etc = delicious.
Steak = delicious.
w.t.f. is that after-eight doing there though?

You'd still recommend the restaurant to your friends, and enjoyed everything you ate; but were just left with a strange taste in your mouth at the end. Satisfied, but not blown away.

(For the record, I enjoyed TDKR more than any other superhero film since TDK!)

gebbel

Just thought I'd post my opinion here, having seen the film last night in Odeon Leicester Square in London. I really enjoyed it...not quite as much as TDK but not far off it either. What really frustrated me was Bane's voice. I couldn't make out half of his dialogue. Kept on cocking my ear to one side when he started talking. Disappointed they didn't properly sort out an issue that was flagged months ago.

Mr Freeze

Sleepy wrote: »

It seems like there's a significant chunk of the fans who just want to find fault but I don't think I've heard anyone say that it's without fault.

I haven't a bad word to say about the film.

I had low expectations going in, as I did not expect them to match the quality of the TDK.

How wrong was I. I was delighted with the film, and very happy with the way they tied up the end of the trilogy.

splashthecash

I enjoyed it - it was a proper summer blockbuster film, sure - it didn't leave me with the awe that TDK did, but still and all a great end to a fantastic trilogy.

I do agree though that humanising Bane at the end didn't work for me - as someone pointed out, it gave him a lovesick assistant kind of angle which didn't suit the violent rough character he was protrayed as.

I love reading reviews on boards, some people are very articulate in terms of why they liked\didn't like it but there is a level of nit-picking which I don't go for myself. Does anyone agree?

"the angle of the ramp that batman used to jump on the batpod would not have been sufficient to reach the elevated road to which he landed..."

"why would batman install a software patch on the flying machine if it wasnt working or he wasn't going to use it"

Keyzer

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

No, because the first time I watched TDK I loved it and picked up on the clever ideas and philosophies within. TDKR had none of that. Incoherent and lacking any original ideas. About an hour in my inner voice was liike 'Uh, Chazz, is this crap?'. I didn't want it to be ****, but as the film stumbled along I just had the dawning realisation that I was watching a boring film, even though I really wanted it to be good. That's the difference between me and those swept away by the hype machine. I simply accepted the truth. :-)

Agree 80%...

I wouldn't say it was crap but it certainly wasn't the epic masterpiece its being made out to be.

Certainly a disappointment though...

This thread should be retitled, "The Dark Knight Rises - need to bitch, moan and whine thread".

This film is in no way a 4 out of 10 film. Honestly, most of Jennifer Anistons movies are better than a 4 out of 10. This is better than a 4 out of 10.

"But wwwwwwhhhhyyyyyy did they make them wait 5 months before exploding the bomb?"

Because this is a film not real life. This is not based on a true story before any one mistakes it for one. I know I nearly did. It was only when I saw Anne Hathaway looking hot did I realise it was a film.

Bane's death really came out of nowhere didn't it? Unlike the epic shootout that was JFK's end, the battle to the death against the French security forces that was Diana's death and of course no-one can forget the drawn out affair of Kurt Cobains death. Fact is. Death happens. It happens quickly and it happens unexpectedly. This is the guy who allegedly "broke the bat" (I would argue that it was Rachel's death many years earlier that really "broke the bat") This guy needed a cannon to the stomach. He was evil.

What else?

Bruce and Selina at the end in the Italian restaurant enjoying a glass of wine. The Bastards. Not like Bruce has done anything to deserve that. The Bastard.

I know I missed some nit-picking points, but I swear these people would have lashed out at the Godfather(1+2), Shawshank, Airplane, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly if they were young enough when they came out.

Second film in this franchise got it right with the line, "Some men just want to watch the world burn"


Oh and by the way, it's nearly 2015 and we don't have hoverboards. I suppose you'll all start hating on Back to the Future 2 now?

Chazz Michael Michaels

Pappa Dolla wrote: »

This thread should be retitled, "The Dark Knight Rises - need to bitch, moan and whine thread".

This film is in no way a 4 out of 10 film. Honestly, most of Jennifer Anistons movies are better than a 4 out of 10. This is better than a 4 out of 10.

"But wwwwwwhhhhyyyyyy did they make them wait 5 months before exploding the bomb?"

Because this is a film not real life. This is not based on a true story before any one mistakes it for one. I know I nearly did. It was only when I saw Anne Hathaway looking hot did I realise it was a film.

Bane's death really came out of nowhere didn't it? Unlike the epic shootout that was JFK's end, the battle to the death against the French security forces that was Diana's death and of course no-one can forget the drawn out affair of Kurt Cobains death. Fact is. Death happens. It happens quickly and it happens unexpectedly. This is the guy who allegedly "broke the bat" (I would argue that it was Rachel's death many years earlier that really "broke the bat") This guy needed a cannon to the stomach. He was evil.

What else?

Bruce and Selina at the end in the Italian restaurant enjoying a glass of wine. The Bastards. Not like Bruce has done anything to deserve that. The Bastard.

I know I missed some nit-picking points, but I swear these people would have lashed out at the Godfather(1+2), Shawshank, Airplane, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly if they were young enough when they came out.

Second film in this franchise got it right with the line, "Some men just want to watch the world burn"


Oh and by the way, it's nearly 2015 and we don't have hoverboards. I suppose you'll all start hating on Back to the Future 2 now?

A post as incoherent as TDKR... :-)

Fishooks12

Deleted User wrote: »

This thread should be retitled, "The Dark Knight Rises - need to bitch, moan and whine thread".

This film is in no way a 4 out of 10 film. Honestly, most of Jennifer Anistons movies are better than a 4 out of 10. This is better than a 4 out of 10.

"But wwwwwwhhhhyyyyyy did they make them wait 5 months before exploding the bomb?"

Because this is a film not real life. This is not based on a true story before any one mistakes it for one. I know I nearly did. It was only when I saw Anne Hathaway looking hot did I realise it was a film.

Bane's death really came out of nowhere didn't it? Unlike the epic shootout that was JFK's end, the battle to the death against the French security forces that was Diana's death and of course no-one can forget the drawn out affair of Kurt Cobains death. Fact is. Death happens. It happens quickly and it happens unexpectedly. This is the guy who allegedly "broke the bat" (I would argue that it was Rachel's death many years earlier that really "broke the bat") This guy needed a cannon to the stomach. He was evil.

What else?

Bruce and Selina at the end in the Italian restaurant enjoying a glass of wine. The Bastards. Not like Bruce has done anything to deserve that. The Bastard.

I know I missed some nit-picking points, but I swear these people would have lashed out at the Godfather(1+2), Shawshank, Airplane, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly if they were young enough when they came out.

Second film in this franchise got it right with the line, "Some men just want to watch the world burn"


Oh and by the way, it's nearly 2015 and we don't have hoverboards. I suppose you'll all start hating on Back to the Future 2 now?

Plenty of people who didn't like it aren't doing any of the nitpicking you're alluding too

For me the biggest disappointing element was Zimmer's horribly over the top score, the cop out ending, a pretty lazy plot and some terrible pacing

It's got some good elements too but It's not a patch on TDK or BB