The Dark Knight Rises - seen thread *SPOILERS WITHIN* See Mod Warning in first post

Liam O

OK so after watching BB and TDK there yesterday I think I finally know what my problem is with TDK in comparison to everyone else. TDK is probably the best Batman movie of the 3 but the other 2 movies in the trilogy show a transformation in Bruce Wayne that is just not present in TDK.

As menacing as the Joker was you always knew that Batman was going to come out on top. In TDKR Bane is suddenly fighting the man underneath the mask, same as Ra's Al Ghul in the first and the movie overall benefits from that vulnerability shown in the character of Bruce which wasn't present in TDK when you see him acting like the spoilt billionaire, which I'm obviously aware was an act but didn't show the vulnerability in the character.

In BB he goes from being the man to the symbol and back to the man again when Ra's infiltrates his party. In TDK he remains the symbol for the entire movie and although he threatens to reveal himself it felt shallow and you knew Dent would take the fall. There was no soul searching, it was suddenly just that he was going to reveal himself. The whole character just feels shallow. Then in TDKR he is the man of Bruce from the start and "dies" the symbol which is allowed to live on. This provides closure for Bruce and

This is why I think if you were going to show someone from Mars a Batman movie you'd show them TDK, because it shows more of the bat than the other 2 but as far as films go the other 2 have a deeper main character. I think it could also be argued that TDKR should have been the sequel to BB and then rounded off with TDK and they would have been able to give a more conclusive end to the Joker storyline (though they may have done this anyway if Ledger didn't die).

Fishooks12

whatislife wrote: »

Disagree. Who goes into something determined to like something?

Societal culture has dictated that it is "cool" to go against mainstream opinion. Mainstream opinion is that this is a very good movie despite it's flaws. Hence "cool" find the movie horrendous, tedious etc

Fanboys.

You saw the reaction to the first negative review on rotten tomatoes, death threats and the like.

The other side of the coin is the people you're using as an example, determined to shoot down the film just for the sake of it.

Plenty of both on this thread but thankfully the majority occupy the middle and are able to talk about the film sensibly

iColdFusion

Thank god for the interweb, I went to see this with my friends and they all thought it was great but being a fan of the first two I had problems and they just didn't understand the nerd rage!

First off I loved Bane, great character with great lines and presence.
Hathaway was nice as catwoman and I thought Robin was good too.

So from the beginning I didn't like the opening scene with the planes, for me it added very little to the story and seemed to be there because the needed to tick the "opening action sequence box", compared to the other movies it was very poor especially the excellent TDK bank heist.

How exactly do you fake a plane crash when the wings have broken off 10 miles back and how would the CIA be fooled by one of Banes men taking the Dr's place
Its not a great plan in any shape or form and damaged Bane's potential as a nemesis in my eyes.


I had kind of assumed Batman would continue fighting crime but with the cops on his tail after TDK, so the whole disappearing for 8 years thing didn't sit well with me.
Batman just gives up on everything and everyone?
8 years with no supervillian arriving on the scene?
Lets his parents legacy fall to pieces?
Denies the world potential peace and prosperity that clean power could bring?


Robin knows Wayne = Batman, even though he only met him once and Bruce's closest friends never worked it out?


Maybe I missed it but how does Robin find Catwoman as shes heading for the airport, he seemed to be waiting outside her apartment while looking for Batman.


I really did like the details of Banes plan and how he takes over but the bit where he shoots "The only person capable of disarming the bomb" was stupid and seems to be disproved quite quickly.


The timeline jumping all over the place after bane takes over was annoying.


The ropeless jump to get out of the pit looked really fake.


Gordon and Robin going on about organising the resistance, freeing the cops and planning to take down Bane then its turns out all they do is form an orderly queue to charge straight at the assault rifle wielding bad guys Zulu style, every single one of them should have been killed :rolleyes:


Batman meeting Bane in the middle of the above giant brawl, I expected more than such a lame cliche.


The knife in the side: I did enjoy the symbalism but it seemed like he had bane pretty much beaten at that stage so why didn't he just punch yer one in the face and take the detonator.
Also technically it was his more maneuverable suit from TDK that was vulnerable to knives.


What was with the nuclear blast, it seemed like he was only barely going to make it out of the city but the cloud is WAAAAYYY off in the distance, so far that they don't even feel a shockwave or any effects whatsoever!


It was pretty obvious he was going to use autopilot but I don't really get why Bruce Wayne had to die aswell, seems like a big FU to his closest family and friends.

Guy:Incognito

OT but just watching the Dark Knight again after ages and at the bit where Lucius goes in to the room with all the Sonar screens and is talking to Batman about how he doesnt agree with it, why is Bruce Wayne talking to him in gravelly Batman voice instead of Buce Wayne voice? You'd imagine the two of them would start pssing themsleves laughing in real life.:)

iColdFusion

Liam O wrote: »

In BB he goes from being the man to the symbol and back to the man again when Ra's infiltrates his party. In TDK he remains the symbol for the entire movie and although he threatens to reveal himself it felt shallow and you knew Dent would take the fall. There was no soul searching, it was suddenly just that he was going to reveal himself. The whole character just feels shallow. Then in TDKR he is the man of Bruce from the start and "dies" the symbol which is allowed to live on. This provides closure for Bruce.

One of the criticisms I have of TDKR is that its too close to BB, the storyline when he gets thrown in the pit is very deja vu, "needs to overcome his fears" etc

The opening scene where Bane gets deliberately caught is just like the Joker in TDK too.

Overheal

Bullseye1 wrote: »

If anyone is interested in owing a 1/4 scale replica of Batman.

I'm going to nerd out on you for a moment and point out that's a Batman Begins replica suit, not The Dark Knight redesign that Fox did for him. Note the original league of shadows bladed-bracers and the cowl with no "neck" making it impossible for Batman to twist his head in the suit.



The redesign, first appearance was in Hong Kong:

Mickeroo wrote: »

At the start of The Dark Night Batman bends the barrel of a machine gun with one hand.

Using a gadget. He used a similar or the same gadget during that fight to start cutting into the side of the van. (Actually I think they have the gadget on that replica toy..):

e_e

Saw it again in iSense today, even better than the first viewing if anything!

To whoever I was chatting to before the movie: Hope it lived up to the hype for you.

phasers

iColdFusion wrote: »

How exactly do you fake a plane crash when the wings have broken off 10 miles back and how would the CIA be fooled by one of Banes men taking the Dr's place
Its not a great plan in any shape or form and damaged Bane's potential as a nemesis in my eyes.

The dead guy in the body bag was replacing thr Dr., that's why Bane did the mid air blood transfusion.

The CIA man said that they had called in only one of Bane's men when he was interrogating them, that's what Bane meant when he said 'they expect to find one of us on board'

So tbf it was better thought out than you think it was.


Anyways;

The film was absolutely amazing. I was completely blown away by the entire thing. Bane was a wonderful villian, I thought he'd be really silly when I first heard his voice but damn he was just so well done. The first fight scene between him and Batman was beyond awesome.

Every single character in the film was so well used as well. Loved loved loved Cillian Murphy's little role!


It looked stunning as well, the scenes in the Football Stadium in particular were gorgeous.


One question though: I wonder where Alfred went after he left Wayne Manor? :pac:

I thought the whole thing brought the trilogy to a perfect end. I don't envy whoever takes on Batman's story next.

abouttobebanned

I kinda feel like now that I've seen it in the cinema I deserve to have a DVD copy to bring home.

fruvai

Guy:Incognito

I really never liked Aiden Gillen or his voice/accents. Always sounds like he is forcing everything. Kind of Fair City acting.

johnny_ultimate

The trailer for this was playing while I was standing in the line in Cineworld today, and just looking at that random collection of images it reminded me how much I loved this film. It's been an absolute age since a film of this scale lingered in my mind a week after viewing, but this is the sort of smart, thrilling big-budget filmmaking that is increasingly endangered. Rough edges and a handful of misjudgements? Yes, of course. Few have denied that. But most of those are largely attributable to Nolan's grand ambitions and successes elsewhere, and there's certainly nowhere near as many plotholes or gaps as others have been suggesting. A few minor gaps? Maybe, but nothing that really negatively impacts the film's momentum or insights. The vast majority of frequently cited 'holes' can be easily be explained away by either a little bit of imagination or even by the film itself.

This summer's poor to mediocre output made me question whether I'd finally outgrown the blockbuster film and all their expensive excesses. But no. The Dark Knight Rises has reminded me that when a director with ideas, intelligence and ambition is given a close-to blank cheque, than the results can prove that there's life left in spectacle cinema yet.

Many were disappointed, and many felt it was mere mediocrity. Everyone's more entitled to their own interpretations and opinions. But, as I grinned to myself in the foyer remembering the amount of genuinely fantastic sequences in this film, I certainly couldn't count myself amongst their ranks.

Best film evar? Nope. Film of the year? IMO, no. But it's still wonderful. Here's to The Dark Knight Rises - a diamond in an increasingly disheartening rough.

Handsome Bob

The voice in the original sounds cooler but I'm glad that they went with more clarity for the theatrical release. There were a few lines in the original that are just gibberish, it would have driven me mad having to go through that for two and a half hours.

Boo Radley

whatislife wrote: »

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I think the same could be said for people who went in determined to love it and ignore any flaws

Disagree. Who goes into something determined to like something?

Societal culture has dictated that it is "cool" to go against mainstream opinion. Mainstream opinion is that this is a very good movie despite it's flaws. Hence "cool" find the movie horrendous, tedious etc

Your whole so called argument here is a strawman. Weak reasoning as to why people didn't like it as much as you. If you logic is to be followed surely the people here that disliked TDKR because it is popular should have disliked the TDK also for the same reasons. I happen to love the first two films and was disappointed with the last. Bang goes your theory.

You might be better suited discussing why you think it was a good film rather than attacking peoples motivations for not liking it as much as you.

osnola ibax

I'd also like to stress that i liked the first, thought the second was truly excellent and the third rubbish. This thread is poorly moderated where a man can't express an opinion without being the subject of personalised attacks.

You want near perfection try:

2001 A Space Odyssey
Motor cycle diaries
Eternal sunshine
Moon
Etc.

abouttobebanned

osnola ivax wrote: »

I'd also like to stress that i liked the first, thought the second was truly excellent and the third rubbish. This thread is poorly moderated where a man can't express an opinion without being the subject of personalised attacks.

You want near perfection try:

2001 A Space Odyssey
Motor cycle diaries
Eternal sunshine
Moon
Etc.

In your opinion.

Scanlas The 2nd

osnola ivax wrote: »

I'd also like to stress that i liked the first, thought the second was truly excellent and the third rubbish. This thread is poorly moderated where a man can't express an opinion without being the subject of personalised attacks.

You want near perfection try:

2001 A Space Odyssey
Motor cycle diaries
Eternal sunshine
Moon
Etc.

What was so much better about the 2nd?

I don't get people thinking TDK is amazing, it's very good but there seemed to be a lot of waffly philosophical talk in TDK. It annoys me when I watch it, not one scene in TDK matches the first Bane Batman encounter.

B.A._Baracus

Is it me?

Or will bane's voice be more suited when watching on tv with a dvd/blu ray rather than the cinema?

I generally understood him but was a few lines where I didnt know what he was saying.

johnny_ultimate

osnola ivax wrote: »

This thread is poorly moderated where a man can't express an opinion without being the subject of personalised attacks.

The last reported post from this thread was actually one of yours, where you used the phrase "bunch of fanboys" to refer to people who liked the film.

If anyone has a problem with a post, the report post button is the place to go. This thread has, thankfully, calmed down after a day or two of being a mess. We mods have more important things to do than scouring through threads handing out warnings, so please if any posts cross the line into personal insults flag it and we'll deal with it.

Now, let's all just get back to actually discussing the film, not the people who watched it.

Grimebox

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Is it me?

Or will bane's voice be more suited when watching on tv with a dvd/blu ray rather than the cinema?

I generally understood him but was a few lines where I didnt know what he was saying.

I couldn't make out what he was saying once or twice. Didn't make a huge difference though. Ironic that I saw it in the isense theatre and had problems with the audio

Turtyturd

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I really never liked Aiden Gillen or his voice/accents. Always sounds like he is forcing everything. Kind of Fair City acting.

His accent in The Wire is pretty good for the most part, didn't really mind it in Batman, but every time I hear him in Game of Thrones I wish I could punch the false teeth out of his mouth.

osnola ibax

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The last reported post from this thread was actually one of yours, where you used the phrase "bunch of fanboys" to refer to people who liked the film.

If anyone has a problem with a post, the report post button is the place to go. This thread has, thankfully, calmed down after a day or two of being a mess. We mods have more important things to do than scouring through threads handing out warnings, so please if any posts cross the line into personal insults flag it and we'll deal with it.

Now, let's all just get back to actually discussing the film, not the people who watched it.

What about the post i made quoted and called retarded. I made a point that i quickly retracted a, couple of posts down. Surely it is worse to be "insulted" by referring to a real section of society, with a name that's rightfully outdated and non pc ala ricky gervais, different but no equally beautiful people, a really disrespectful phrase (not to me), than being called a fanboy.

johnny_ultimate

osnola ivax wrote: »

What about the post i made quoted and called retarded. I made a point that i quickly retracted a, couple of posts down. Surely it is worse to be "insulted" by referring to a real section of society, with a name that's rightfully outdated and non pc ala ricky gervais, different but no equally beautiful people, a really disrespectful phrase (not to me), than being called a fanboy.

Yes, the choice of phrasing in that post was also questionable. It did, however, obey the old rule of 'attack the post, not the poster', even if the word usage was objectionable. Responding, however, with more insults gets no-one anywhere.

Anyway, enough of this. Faceman did a great job cleaning up the thread earlier, and his warning still stands. No-one has been been infracted, warned or banned, but they will be going forward. Let that be the end of it.

longhalloween

iColdFusion wrote: »

How exactly do you fake a plane crash when the wings have broken off 10 miles back and how would the CIA be fooled by one of Banes men taking the Dr's place
Its not a great plan in any shape or form and damaged Bane's potential as a nemesis in my eyes.

Well, it's a plane crash, not Aircraft Investigates, and since it was in a foreign country maybe no investigation was carried out? The blood transfusion was a bit contrived but god only knows what happened when the plane hit the ground.

iColdFusion wrote: »

I had kind of assumed Batman would continue fighting crime but with the cops on his tail after TDK, so the whole disappearing for 8 years thing didn't sit well with me.
Batman just gives up on everything and everyone?
8 years with no supervillian arriving on the scene?
Lets his parents legacy fall to pieces?
Denies the world potential peace and prosperity that clean power could bring?

That bothered me too. It would have been nice to have a sense of Batman working for a year or two before public hate finally drove him to hanging up the cape.

iColdFusion wrote: »

Robin knows Wayne = Batman, even though he only met him once and Bruce's closest friends never worked it out?

I think that's meant to show that Blake and Wayne have a lot in common and that Blake is a great detective.

iColdFusion wrote: »

Maybe I missed it but how does Robin find Catwoman as shes heading for the airport, he seemed to be waiting outside her apartment while looking for Batman.

Wayne asks to be dropped off outside Catwoman's house after Blake picks him up outside Wayne Enterprises

iColdFusion wrote: »

I really did like the details of Banes plan and how he takes over but the bit where he shoots "The only person capable of disarming the bomb" was stupid and seems to be disproved quite quickly.

Reconnecting the bomb to the reactor would only stop the core decaying, it wouldn't undo the changes Dr. Pavel made in changing the core into a bomb.

iColdFusion wrote: »

The knife in the side: I did enjoy the symbalism but it seemed like he had bane pretty much beaten at that stage so why didn't he just punch yer one in the face and take the detonator.
Also technically it was his more maneuverable suit from TDK that was vulnerable to knives

That was the suit they get from the hideout used in the TDK so it would make sense that it was the same TDK suit.

iColdFusion wrote: »

It was pretty obvious he was going to use autopilot but I don't really get why Bruce Wayne had to die aswell, seems like a big FU to his closest family and friends.

The whole point of Alfred's speech in the Batcave was that Bruce's couldn't find happiness in Gotham. He had to move on with his life and get away from the bad memories of his past (Batman/parents & Rachel's death etc)

There is one thing I was wondering, at the end when Batman is chasing the truck with the Bat, Lucius Fox is giving him directions and instructions. How the hell does he know what's going on, seeing that he's underground, looking at the screen attached to the nuclear reactor?

osnola ibax

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Yes, the choice of phrasing in that post was also questionable. It did, however, obey the old rule of 'attack the post, not the poster', even if the word usage was objectionable. Responding, however, with more insults gets no-one anywhere.

Anyway, enough of this. Faceman did a great job cleaning up the thread earlier, and his warning still stands. No-one has been been infracted, warned or banned, but they will be going forward. Let that be the end of it.

Since when was fanboy more insulting than retarded. Ban me ffs, this is the craziest thread i have ever come across.

spankmaster2000

longhalloween wrote: »

The whole point of Alfred's speech in the Batcave was that Bruce's couldn't find happiness in Gotham. He had to move on with his life and get away from the bad memories of his past (Batman/parents & Rachel's death etc)

Maybe so; but that doesn't really answer the actual question:

I don't really get why Bruce Wayne had to die aswell, seems like a big FU to his closest family and friends.

He could move on with his life, move out of Gotham, live with Selina, etc as you have suggested; all while still remaining Bruce.

All he really added to that was throwing billions of dollars of his own personal "Wayne money" down the toilet.
For me personally; even if he didn't want that - he could have at least stayed "alive", and donated it to the orphaned kids / charities, etc, no?

On top of that; it just didn't sit right with me that Batman "retired" at the point where every single criminal in Gotham was left roaming the streets to pick off an ailing / weakened police force. I can forgive that nit-pick though; it's the Bruce Wayne death, rather than the Batman one that confuses me.

expectationlost

fruvai wrote: »

prefer the original, in the cinema the voice didn't sound like it was coming from bane at all, put the original on the dvd please

OMARS_COMING_

İ found it really dissapointing.

The story is all over the place,really,its a complete mess.

Why o why?? This had so much potential!

osnola ibax

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

İ found it really dissapointing.

The story is all over the place,really,its a complete mess.

Why o why?? This had so much potential!

Double thank

billyhead

Is this film still selling out theartres. I was planning to wait till things quieten down before going to see it i.e where there will be less people and demand at the showing. I am not keen on watching it in a paked out cinema