The Dark Knight Rises - seen thread *SPOILERS WITHIN* See Mod Warning in first post

ancapailldorcha

I meant general films based on videogames.

Liam McPoyle

Saw this last night and was rather non plussed by the whole thing.Not a bad movie by any means but Im puzzled by the amount of gushing been done.

I could go on about some of the ludicrous plot holes but in this type of film they are expected so meh.What really irked me was the vomit inducing ending in the cafe in Florence,sweet Jesus it was like something you would expect to see in a Katherine Heigel rom com ffs.

The perfect end would have been the scene with Alfred by the grave but no,give the masses something to go home with a smile on their faces about instead.

Mass produced Hollywood clap trap of the highest calibre.

I've lost a huge amount of respect for Nolan but would love to know of that was his ending or if it was forced upon him.

The way the hype has died down about this in less than two weeks proves that many people were as non plussed as I but I reckon that most people WANT to love this movie,shame really as it does remove the viewers objectivity.

e_e

I could go on about some of the ludicrous plot holes

What plot holes are they? Because most of the complaints I read about plot holes did not happen to be plot holes at all. In fact I'm starting to think that a lot of people don't even know the meaning of the term.

What really irked me was the vomit inducing ending in the cafe in Florence,sweet Jesus it was like something you would expect to see in a Katherine Heigel rom com ffs.

I still think that scene is fantasy, but you can interpret it anyway you like.

Mass produced Hollywood clap trap of the highest calibre.

Extremely harsh, especially given that the likes of The Amazing Spider-Man, Ice Age 4 and The Avengers are still on release.

The way the hype has died down about this in less than two weeks proves that many people were as non plussed as I but I reckon that most people WANT to love this movie

I genuinely loved it, and this is coming from somebody who has some big reservations about The Dark Knight.

shame really as it does remove the viewers objectivity.

What does this even mean, on any level? People don't go to the cinema to objectively analyze, that's ruining the experience entirely.

Handsome Bob

Necronos wrote: »

Saw this last night and was rather non plussed by the whole thing.Not a bad movie by any means but Im puzzled by the amount of gushing been done.

I could go on about some of the ludicrous plot holes but in this type of film they are expected so meh.What really irked me was the vomit inducing ending in the cafe in Florence,sweet Jesus it was like something you would expect to see in a Katherine Heigel rom com ffs.

The perfect end would have been the scene with Alfred by the grave but no,give the masses something to go home with a smile on their faces about instead.

Mass produced Hollywood clap trap of the highest calibre.

I've lost a huge amount of respect for Nolan but would love to know of that was his ending or if it was forced upon him.

The way the hype has died down about this in less than two weeks proves that many people were as non plussed as I but I reckon that most people WANT to love this movie,shame really as it does remove the viewers objectivity.

I said before this film was released that Bruce dying was not the right 'end' for his journey. This trilogy was always about Bruce Wayne rather than Batman and after 3 films, some people still don't get that, evident by all the "not enough Batman dammit!!11!!" criticisms that have been levelled at TDKR.

Bruce's story in this franchise is a simple but powerful one, a story of a man who never learnt how to deal with his pain and grief in the correct manner. Instead he created a persona that, while making things better for him in the short term, simply papered over the cracks...and the second that persona produced results he didn't want or expected, it sent him into an even bigger downward spiral. It's why Bale's Bruce Wayne is by far my favourite in any media as it's an incredibly human portrayal of someone who has suffered loss, albeit without the costume.

So yeah, maybe I'm alone in this, but seeing him actually die would have given me no satisfaction, just a depressing ending to a depressing life.

Look back over the trilogy and you'll see that Nolan's Wayne is not the Wayne of the comics, he was never willing to dedicate his life to the cowl at the expense of his own personal happiness. He wanted to retire in TDK and live happily ever after with Rachel. I'm glad he got his wish in the end, albeit not exactly in the way he hoped.

Necronos

Necronos wrote: »

The perfect end would have been the scene with Alfred by the grave but no,give the masses something to go home with a smile on their faces about instead.

Mass produced Hollywood clap trap of the highest calibre.

Well it did have a $250 million budget... What were you expecting? a low key art house flick?

It picks me when people are come out with these points that anything but a melancholic or ambiguous ending is "Hollywood"

I think the ending was pretty fitting and despite others views i don't think it's open to much interpretation.

MrStuffins

Necronos wrote: »

Mass produced Hollywood clap trap of the highest calibre.

You haven't thought this through have you?

amacca

e_e wrote: »

Extremely harsh, especially given that the likes of The Amazing Spider-Man, Ice Age 4 and The Avengers are still on release.

fair point tbh...I may have my quibbles but its a cut above a hell of a lot of "blockbusters"

I found this debate interesting so I went back to for a second viewing (something I very rarely do) and to my great surprise I enjoyed the film immensely..........While still not quite as good as TDK imo it was much closer than I first thought and a very good end to the trilogy as many here have said...............Bane while not reaching the heights of the joker (how could he given the character) was v.good incongruous voice and all (I think the voice added to him tbh)

the start and the end of the film were very good (except the very end) in terms of action imo with the first 45-50+ mins skipping aolng very nicely...........catwoman was introduced very well and I though she was excellent for a character/actress I had very little hope for

Most of the minor quibbles/plot holes that have been brought up are explained quite adequately within the film or are so minor that they need no explanation however there were still some bits in it I thought were a bit shabby...but then again perhaps I'm wrong

1) When Gordon escapes bane in the sewers how does Blake find him so soon after at exactly the right outflow?...just seemed a bit convenient considering banes thug has told us earlier he could come out at any number of outflows....minor I know but a small cut scene with gordon somehow making contact with GPD maybe or something

2) Perhaps it was just me but batman flying the bomb out of gotham and out to sea.........................the sea bit looked no better than something from that kids movie flight of the navigator......could have been done better and would have been better imo if in the run up to that the bat struggling to gain altitude just blew its way through some of that skyline instead of the small anemic explosion witnessed by blake and the kids on the bus

3) The pacing is a bit off in the middle...it definitely drags a bit..I was captivated for the first hour or so.....enjoyed most of the end immensely but found myself drifting off somewhere in the middle

---

no drifting in TDK or BB

Still a great action/crime/thriller/comic adaptation though.........its not many films you can stand going to twice and its even fewer that you enjoy more and find new things to appreciate about it than the first viewing.

maybe its one of those rare beasts...It could be a grower.

Mickeroo

Necronos wrote: »

The perfect end would have been the scene with Alfred by the grave but no,give the masses something to go home with a smile on their faces about instead.

Mass produced Hollywood clap trap of the highest calibre.

Nonsense, a sad ending for the sake of being different is worse than a positive ending that serves the narrative better.

coolisin

Blake knew where Gordon would wash out of the sewer as he found the young guy/orphans brother, earlier who had gone into the sewer to find work.

Professey Chin

amacca wrote: »

1) When Gordon escapes bane in the sewers how does Blake find him so soon after at exactly the right outflow?...just seemed a bit convenient considering banes thug has told us earlier he could come out at any number of outflows....minor I know but a small cut scene with gordon somehow making contact with GPD maybe or something

Thats mentioned earlier at some point about somethings turning up at that outflow. Theres a few points like that throughout the film showing Blakes detective skills as being up there with Batmans. (Besides the obvious Bruce = Batman one)

e_e

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCBxoossZOw

Don't know if it's totally relevant to the thread but I found this quite funny.

captainkeg

Loved BatmanBegins, stll do. Really enjoyed The Dark Knight out first time round in the Cinema, watched it again last week in anticipation of the new one and struggled through it, goes on far too long.
Went to see TDKR last night, very disapinted. Incoherent action scenes (the chase scene after stock exchange, Gordon following the bomb around), plot twists you could see coming a mile off, couldnt understand a good chunk of Banes dialogue. Was quite bored towards the end, hoping the bomb would just go off so I could go home)
Was I the only one who nearly burst out laughing at Caine crying at the end btw? something off about it.
Also something I havent seen mentioned, when the cops get released from underground, how longwere they supposed to have been there for? I figure at least a monthe. What were they eating and drinking? Their uniforms looked remarkably clean! I'm al;l for not joylessly nitpicking movies like this, but it seemed like a big leap to me.

My Batman Rankings after seeing this
1. BB
2. Batman (1989)
3. TDK
4. Batman returns
5. TDKR
6. BF
Never seen B+R, and never will

amacca

captainkeg wrote: »

Also something I havent seen mentioned, when the cops get released from underground, how longwere they supposed to have been there for? I figure at least a monthe. What were they eating and drinking? Their uniforms looked remarkably clean!

they were receiving regular food drops from banes men as part of his plan to give the citizens hope so they can experience true despair etc

I'm with you on the clean uniforms and clean shaven bit but it didn't bother me that much tbh...perhaps they nipped home for a quick cuppa and a chat with their significant others + a change into dress uniform after they were released but before the vicious uprising

amacca

e_e wrote: »

Don't know if it's totally relevant to the thread but I found this quite funny.

"Rubber lips are immune to your charms"

must break that one out on my next night out :pac:

MrStuffins

Seriously, it's getting embarrassing at this point.

Again, I know the movie has flaws, but it's like those who are picking holes didn't even watch the movie!

Sad Professor

They may not have had big bushy beards, but the cops were at the end were clearly unshaven. As said above, Bane's men were keeping them alive with regular supplies (which I assume included a limited supply of razors).

Bane explains his reasons for keeping the police alive during his speech: "the police will survive as they learn to serve true justice". There's a shot accompanying this of supplies being lowered down to them. Why didn't Bane just kill them? Because he was trying to pass off his takeover as a revolution. Simply blowing up the city wasn't enough for him, no more than it was for Ra's in Begins.

hightower1

e_e wrote: »

What plot holes are they.

The glaring one for me was the fact that we know from the first two movies that Bruce wayne is world famous, an eccentric billionaire, a bill gates level or recognition.... yet at the end he fakes his own death and instead of going into hiding in some third world country he decides to do the exact opposite in Florance. Ehhhh, Bruce old boy, I think someone may recognize you and the ruse will be ever so slightly up.

Seeing as Bruces leaving gotham / batman behind to vanish is a major (if not the most major plot point) the hole in the logic there is that he isnt in hiding at all.... unless you call chilling out having a coffee in a cafe outside in Florance hiding out.

MrStuffins

hightower1 wrote: »

The glaring one for me was the fact that we know from the first two movies that Bruce wayne is world famous, an eccentric billionaire, a bill gates level or recognition.... yet at the end he fakes his own death and instead of going into hiding in some third world country he decides to do the exact opposite in Florance. Ehhhh, Bruce old boy, I think someone may recognize you and the ruse will be ever so slightly up.

Seeing as Bruces leaving gotham / batman behind to vanish is a major (if not the most major plot point) the hole in the logic there is that he isnt in hiding at all.... unless you call chilling out having a coffee in a cafe outside in Florance hiding out.

Pretty weak "plot hole" to be fair!

hightower1

MrStuffins wrote: »

Pretty weak "plot hole" to be fair!

A total collapse in logic for the actual ending of the movie and the emotional healing of the main character.... is a MINOR plot hole? :eek:

Id hate to see a major one if that was the case.

MrStuffins

hightower1 wrote: »

A total collapse in logic for the actual ending of the movie and the emotional healing of the main character.... is a MINOR plot hole? :eek:

Id hate to see a major one if that was the case.

This same movie was about a man who dresses up as a giant bat and fights crime and despite being the only person in Gotham City to have the money & resources to be Batman AND being the exact height, frame and looking exactly like him (in the jaw) he fooled everyone in the world enough that none of them actually said "Hey, reckon that Batfella is Bruce Wayne" by just growling a bit whilst flying what seemed to be some sort of upside down helicopter type contraption.

Sad Professor

Given that Bruce has been hiding out Howard Hughes-style for several years, I don't have difficulty with him not being recognised in a coffee shop in Florence. He's a billionaire, yes, and a celebrity within Gotham, but there's nothing to suggest he was ever as well known as Bill Gates. I mean, how many people would recognise Warren Buffett if they saw him on the street?

It's not a plot hole in any case.

Sad Professor

Also, didn't Falcone tell Bruce in Begins that he'd have to travel a thousand miles to find someone who didn't know his name? How far away is Florence from the east coast of the US? 4 thousand miles give or take? Sounds far enough.

johnny_ultimate

This man is the richest individual in the world.



Before having seen this picture, would you genuinely have recognised him if he was sitting across from you in Nandos (because billionaires love spicy chicken)?

Also, here's an interesting read: http://mubi.com/notebook/posts/the-big-murk-a-conversation-about-christopher-nolans-the-dark-knight-rises With many people criticising the film for supposed plot holes, it's interesting to read opinions from hardcore cinephiles. Unfortunately, several of them seemed to have been expecting a Bela Tarr film rather than a $250 million spectacle movie, but it's a curious, in-depth read despite the regular lashings of pretension.

hightower1

MrStuffins wrote: »

This same movie was about a man who dresses up as a giant bat and fights crime and despite being the only person in Gotham City to have the money & resources to be Batman AND being the exact height, frame and looking exactly like him (in the jaw) he fooled everyone in the world enough that none of them actually saying "Hey, reckon that Batfella is Bruce Wayne" by just growling a bit whilst flying was seemed to be some sort of upside down helicopter type contraption.

Because a movie ether has an expected level or suspension of disbelief or a fantastical element doesn't mean it can pick and choose at common sense. It was clearly a pivotal scene and element in the movie that we see Bruce as emotionally healed and moving on yet the same scene betrayed the means at which he uses to be able to get to that point - becoming anonymous, something we know Bruce Wayne wouldnt be capable of in a 1st world country and a main city.

It was established in the beginning of the trilogy that even in a tiny backwater town / prison in a huge country like China Bruce still cannot disappear. Word made it to the LOS that he was there (nothing in the story sited that they were monitoring his movements). Swanning about Italy is a terrible scene to end a movie on seeing that the emotional pay off scene REQUIRED him to be hidden and anonymous.

FlashD

MrStuffins wrote: »

This same movie was about a man who dresses up as a giant bat and fights crime and despite being the only person in Gotham City to have the money & resources to be Batman AND being the exact height, frame and looking exactly like him (in the jaw) he fooled everyone in the world enough that none of them actually said "Hey, reckon that Batfella is Bruce Wayne" by just growling a bit whilst flying what seemed to be some sort of upside down helicopter type contraption.

What are you doing in this thread never mind going to a Batman film?

Recommendation: Stay away from Superman next year, this guy dosen't even wear a mask, just a pair of glasses...sorry everyone is that a spoiler?

Professey Chin

hightower1 wrote: »

It was established in the beginning of the trilogy that even in a tiny backwater town / prison in a huge country like China Bruce still cannot disappear. Swanning about Italy is a terrible scene to end a movie on seeing that the emotional pay off scene REQUIRED him to be hidden and anonymous.

He managed to disappear pretty well in Begins. Police didnt even recognise his name when he was caught robbing the Wayne Enterprises stuff. Only Ra's knew who he was (partly to convince him that he could teach him to become even more invisible)

MrStuffins

hightower1 wrote: »

Because a movie ether has an expected level or suspension of disbelief or a fantastical element doesn't mean it can pick and choose at common sense. It was clearly a pivotal scene and element in the movie that we see Bruce as emotionally healed and moving on yet the same scene betrayed the means at which he uses to be able to get to that point - becoming anonymous, something we know Bruce Wayne wouldnt be capable of in a 1st world country and a main city.

It was established in the beginning of the trilogy that even in a tiny backwater town / prison in a huge country like China Bruce still cannot disappear. Swanning about Italy is a terrible scene to end a movie on seeing that the emotional pay off scene REQUIRED him to be hidden and anonymous.

Maybe it wasn't Bruch Wayne but someone who just looked very similar.

There are plenty of people who look like him. John Connor & Patrick Bateman for example!

MrStuffins

FlashD wrote: »

What are you doing in this thread never mind going to a Batman film?

Recommendation: Stay away from Superman next year, this guy dosen't even wear a mask, just a pair of glasses...sorry everyone is that a spoiler?

I think you'll find he doesn't wear glasses.

Although, there's a guy who looks a bit like him called Clark Kent, but he CAN'T be Superman BECAUSE of the glasses!

Sad Professor

hightower1 wrote: »

It was established in the beginning of the trilogy that even in a tiny backwater town / prison in a huge country like China Bruce still cannot disappear.

If everyone knew he was in China, then why was he declared dead back in Gotham? Ra's found Bruce because he was probably looking for him.

e_e

hightower1 wrote: »

The glaring one for me was the fact that we know from the first two movies that Bruce wayne is world famous, an eccentric billionaire, a bill gates level or recognition.... yet at the end he fakes his own death and instead of going into hiding in some third world country he decides to do the exact opposite in Florance. Ehhhh, Bruce old boy, I think someone may recognize you and the ruse will be ever so slightly up.

Seeing as Bruces leaving gotham / batman behind to vanish is a major (if not the most major plot point) the hole in the logic there is that he isnt in hiding at all.... unless you call chilling out having a coffee in a cafe outside in Florance hiding out.

Again, not a plot hole. What's to stop him just forming a new identity elsewhere?