The Dark Knight Rises - seen thread *SPOILERS WITHIN* See Mod Warning in first post

Armin_Tamzarian

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I've never said anything negative about Ledger's performance beyond the fact that it's overrated. Brilliant, but the way people go on and on about it drives me mad. Nicholson was terrible, just woeful.

You said it was no better than Nicholson and that Nicholson was atrocious.
So you said that Ledger's performance was no better than atrocious.
I think that could be construed as a negative comment.

ancapailldorcha

pixelburp wrote: »

Johnny_ultimate, do you still have that shotgun handy? I think this thread has descended into pointless bickering and back&forth'ery.

I'm starting to get quite weary of it as well. Has this happened with many other film threads?

phil1nj

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'm starting to get quite weary of it as well. Has this happened with many other film threads?

+1

ancapailldorcha

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

You said it was no better than Nicholson and that Nicholson was atrocious.
So you said that Ledger's performance was no better than atrocious.
I think that could be construed as a negative comment.

That's fair enough. I don't want to go into the Burton films but I never really liked them hence the atrocious remark.

PaulB1984

phil1nj wrote: »

Hmmmmm, I saw a lot of Howard Hughes in this movie, I even seen Howard Hughes flying a couple of planes in this movie. But you seem to think that HH was The Aviator for every single scene of that movie, well In that case I consider every minute BW is onscreen in TDKR to be a minute where Batman is also onscreen too. Kind of makes a **** of your "there's only 15 minutes of Batman in this Batman movie" mantra that you've been spouting on this thread.

Oh and by the way, I'm still waiting for you to answer my questions from post #2325. I'm bracing myself for more opinionated ****e and drivel though so probably best if you don't answer it.

Mind asking your questions again from #2325? It's a lot to scroll through just to read something i'll probably disagree with anyway.

Andy!!

PaulB1984 wrote: »

Batman is Gotham's Dark Knight, Harvey Dent was Gotham's White Knight. Now had the citizens of Gotham found out that Harvey Dent had become a crazed killer and tried to murder a young boy, the city would have crumpled like paper under the weight of knowing their new leader was an attempted kiddy killer. So Batman having Gotham's best interest at heart says in not these exact words "I'm already a fugitive, Gotham already hates me for waiting so long to hand myself over the the Joker, so i'd rather they thought i killed those people as a vigilante instead of their White Knight Harvey Dent killing them out of being a lunatic who then tried to killed the Commisoner's own young son!". As someone who's defending Dark Knight Rises, i'd have thought you knew that this was the central plot in that movie.

Heath Ledger was magnificent as the Joker, so magnificent they gave the poor man an Oscar for his performance. He's truly iconic, and i can't believe you've said what you just said. And here's me debating a movie's merits with you.

Except all of that is BS. We never see a single soul in the film admiring Harvey Dent, or idolising him. Hes just a D.A. They just failed to make Batman a pariah throughout the film and had to do it in the last 2 minutes to accomodate their plans for the sequel.

PaulB1984

phil1nj wrote: »

Is this the hero from the TV series and the Joel Schumacher movies that you grew up with?

Or is it the hero from the comic books that you never read? Just curious........

Well, as i remember it, the 60s TV series was all about Batman. The '89, '92, '95, '97 movies were all about Batman. And from what i remember, all of the cartoon shows were about Batman also. And i mean that in the sense that when we sat down to watch them, we were aware that Bruce Wayne becomes Batman, we were aware of why he was doing what he does, but did we sit down and watch all of those those for Bruce Wayne? Did we heck. But now you're saying the comic books had nothing to do with Batman? It was all Bruce Wayne? It was all sitting through 2 hours and 45 minutes of a huge fat fool we can't understand a word from? And you wonder why i never read the comics...

Andy!!

All the people whingeing about wanting the thread closed should just not enter the thread. Pretty simple idea yes?

PaulB1984

phil1nj wrote: »

You're just being daft now. You might want to open a window wherever you are....

Again, another attempt to prove my point, flown straight over everyone's heads. I may just open that window... And leap out of it.

PaulB1984

Andy!! wrote: »

All the people whingeing about wanting the thread closed should just not enter the thread. Pretty simple idea yes?

HEAR HEAR! Instead of idiots complaining about the thread, either drop in their own opinion, or leave well alone!

ancapailldorcha

Andy!! wrote: »

All the people whingeing about wanting the thread closed should just not enter the thread. Pretty simple idea yes?

A lot of us didn't anticipate the thread degenerating into this mess. I certainly didn't anticipate it happening twice. Shame as the Blu Ray is about to come out.

pixelburp

Andy!! wrote:

All the people whingeing about wanting the thread closed should just not enter the thread. Pretty simple idea yes?

Well it's in my subscription list so only natural I and others click in, but considering that yes the discussion is now a spiral of tangential pedantry, I may unsubscribe; it's a fair point considering the home release is approaching and people may want to discuss the film again outside of bickering.

PaulB1984 wrote:

HEAR HEAR! Instead of idiots complaining about the thread, either drop in their own opinion, or leave well alone!

And frankly that kind of attitude doesn't really help either.

Scanlas The 2nd

PaulB1984 wrote: »

In fairness, to quote one thing from me when i've clearly said mostly the entire movie is complete rubbish, confuses me. The fact that Bane is a rotten character, that he gets killed by an almost non-existent Catwoman and that he gets killed so quickly and so suddenly, jerks my chain a lot more. Does it not bother you that Batman was saved by bleedin' Catwoman? That the whole movie is based on some crappy arm wrestling match between Batman and Bane, and yet when it came down it, Batman was a dead man? And then instead of a grand big explosion of a death for Bane, he's hit by a rocket from a bike? It works extremely well for Delta Force, but in what was touted to be the biggest Batman movie ever going to happen? Joker in Batman 89? Penguin in Batman Returns? Raz Al Ghul in Begins? Harvey Two-Face in TDK? etc...

Batman did defeat Bane, it was Talia that caught him off guard.

The King of Moo

PaulB1984 wrote: »

I'd still rather know that a hero i grew up with could still win the day and not be at the final mercy at the hands of a ****ty villian i'd never even heard of until Batman & Robin came along, without being saved by Catwoman.

You can't have liked any of Nolan's films then. One of the main themes of them was that Batman serves more purpose as a symbol to inspire others, rather than a fighter who could single-handedly take down the League of Shadows with all of Wayne Enterprises' weapons at their disposal.
That's why, in contrast to the comics, for example, we never see Batman beating up random muggers and so on. That can only achieve so much.
If he were able to kill Bane and Talia, kill all of their heavily-armed goons, rescue the orphans and defuse the bomb or detonate it at a safe distance all by himself, it would've been absurd beyond belief.

Even in the previous two films he's not alone. In Batman Begins he needs Alfred to rouse him to go stop Rhas al Ghul, and Gordon to help him stop the train.
In The Dark Knight, the decisions of the people on the ferries not to give in and kill each other is arguably more important narratively and thematically than Batman rescuing the hostages and catching The Joker. Batman's most important act in that film is to take responsibility for Dent's crimes: acting as a symbol, but a negative one for the citizens of Gotham to rally against.
That's why I love the end of The Dark Knight Rises: he once more uses Batman as a symbol, resonating with his decision at the end of The Dark Knight. Only this time it's a symbol of heroism and self-sacrifice for the people of Gotham to get behind, as he'd originally planned.

PaulB1984

Andy!! wrote: »

Except all of that is BS. We never see a single soul in the film admiring Harvey Dent, or idolising him. Hes just a D.A. They just failed to make Batman a pariah throughout the film and had to do it in the last 2 minutes to accomodate their plans for the sequel.

Oooohhhhh, controversial! I like it! So you're saying district attorneys are nothing? They mean nothing to any city they're in? They've no power to change anything? Wow, i never looked at it like that before. I thought the whole movie was the Joker trying to prove that someone as incorruptable and decent as Harvey Dent could be turned to, to quote Star Wars, the "Dark Side". But nope, you're right, D.A.s are nothing to no one.

The King of Moo

Andy!! wrote: »

All the people whingeing about wanting the thread closed should just not enter the thread. Pretty simple idea yes?

What if people still want to discuss an intelligent, if flawed, but always interesting-to-discuss film which continues to be in the public eye in a mature manner?

PaulB1984

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

A lot of us didn't anticipate the thread degenerating into this mess. I certainly didn't anticipate it happening twice. Shame as the Blu Ray is about to come out.

So no one's allowed to discuss the movie? Because that's all we're doing! Discussing the movie, discussing the roots and legends of Batman and his many incarnations. So what's your problem? It's not my fault i'm well versed on Batman and you're not. After the posts you added here, i'm surprised you haven't gone into hiding with shame. As for the Blu-Ray coming out, i'll save you some time... It's the same as what you saw at the cinema, so all of our opinions will remain the same.

The King of Moo

PaulB1984 wrote: »

So no one's allowed to discuss the movie? Because that's all we're doing! Discussing the movie, discussing the roots and legends of Batman and his many incarnations. So what's your problem? It's not my fault i'm well versed on Batman and you're not. After the posts you added here, i'm surprised you haven't gone into hiding with shame. As for the Blu-Ray coming out, i'll save you some time... It's the same as what you saw at the cinema, so all of our opinions will remain the same.

Discussion is fine. Childishness like this gets tiresome fast and is never necessary.

ancapailldorcha

Hiding with shame? They're films for God's sake.

PaulB1984

The King of Moo wrote: »

What if people still want to discuss an intelligent, if flawed, but always interesting-to-discuss film which continues to be in the public eye in a mature manner?

Well, i think the fact that my email inbox is squashed with responses on the movie means we are discussing it. As i've previously said, we entitled to share our opinions on it. This is not Rotten Tomatoes were critics are having their lives threatened for daring to speak out against the movie. I, and no one else here, should be scared to have our say. Stop moaning, offer up some opinions on our points, then you'll be a part of the discussion.

pixelburp

Wow, this thread now actually resembles a YouYube comments section; it has finally descended to "I'm a bigger fan than you nyah nyah".
Yup, unsubscribing from this thread; shame because I've loved the series as a whole, am keen to talk about it in general terms, but fanboy p*ssing contest is beyond the pale. Correction, there's being a fanboy & then there's acting like you're 12.

johnny_ultimate

Im on mobile at the moment with limited powers, but a few posts here are dangerously close to infaction territory. PaulB1984, we dont look kindly on insults general or specific.

Frankly, it depresses me that this thread consistently disallows mature, intelligent discussion and criticism. This is easily the most horrible thread Ive come across in my time on this forum. Which is such a shame given the film deserves divisive but sensible debate.

PaulB1984

The King of Moo wrote: »

Discussion is fine. Childishness like this gets tiresome fast and is never necessary.

OK. Here's what we're discussing... I don't like the movie, i feel it has a miserable amount of Batman (Or now i'm thinking he's way too thinly spread), it has a very dull and silly villian, Catwoman is far from exciting and the action is a disappointment. That's my opinion. Please give me yours.

The King of Moo

PaulB1984 wrote: »

Well, i think the fact that my email inbox is squashed with responses on the movie means we are discussing it. As i've previously said, we entitled to share our opinions on it. This is not Rotten Tomatoes were critics are having their lives threatened for daring to speak out against the movie. I, and no one else here, should be scared to have our say. Stop moaning, offer up some opinions on our points, then you'll be a part of the discussion.

I already have.

My issue with the discussion over the last few pages is that it contains too much chilidishness, in place of mature, respectful disagreement.

PaulB1984

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Im on mobile at the moment with limited powers, but a few posts here are dangerously close to infaction territory. PaulB1984, we dont look kindly on insults general or specific.

Frankly, it depresses me that this thread consistently disallows mature, intelligent discussion and criticism. This is easily the most horrible thread Ive come across in my time on this forum. Which is such a shame given the film deserves divisive but sensible debate.

I haven't insulted anyone. Just merely pointed out that someone stating that a man who gave the performance of his career was given a Oscar because he's dead is not agreeable. But point taken and noted, i've had my say on this movie.

johnny_ultimate

Last I checked 'idiots' was an insult, so yeah...

Now, lets all just play nice. Myself or another mod will attempt to clean up the thread later, but harder and harder to determine if its worth the effort.

The King of Moo

PaulB1984 wrote: »

OK. Here's what we're discussing... I don't like the movie, i feel it has a miserable amount of Batman (Or now i'm thinking he's way too thinly spread), it has a very dull and silly villian, Catwoman is far from exciting and the action is a disappointment. That's my opinion. Please give me yours.

I've already stated my opinion on various aspects of the film in multiple posts in this thread, but I'll give you a quick summary.

Despite some flaws (similar to those of the previous two films), I thought the film was a great way to bring the trilogy to an eminently satisfying conclusion, continuing the themes developed in the previous two films. I liked the greater focus on Bruce Wayne, and I though the performances were generally great, including great turns by the series newcomers Tom Hardy, Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Anne Hathaway.

I'm happy to discuss my opinion with anyone who disagrees with it.

PaulB1984

The King of Moo wrote: »

I've already stated my opinion on various aspects of the film in multiple posts in this thread, but I'll give you a quick summary.

Despite some flaws (similar to those of the previous two films), I thought the film was a great way to bring the trilogy to an eminently satisfying conclusion, continuing the themes developed in the previous two films. I liked the greater focus on Bruce Wayne, and I though the performances were generally great, including great turns by the series newcomers Tom Hardy, Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Anne Hathaway.

I'm happy to discuss my opinion with anyone who disagrees with it.

Well, i'm a newcomer, so thanks for sharing.

I diasgree with everything you posted, excluding JGL.

Thanks again.

krudler

I dunno why everyones arguing about TDK vs TDKR, Batman Begins is better than them both

Jimdagym

krudler wrote: »

I dunno why everyones arguing about TDK vs TDKR, Batman Begins is better than them both

^^^this!