The Dark Knight Rises - seen thread *SPOILERS WITHIN* See Mod Warning in first post

PerrinV2

"No. I always go a size smaller. Makes me look slimmer."

Josey Wales

I got The Dark Knight Rises on Bluray today. Just noticed that the digital version is not available in the Republic of Ireland. What a joke.

Sad Professor

Josey Wales wrote: »

I got The Dark Knight Rises on Bluray today. Just noticed that the digital version is not available in the Republic of Ireland. What a joke.

UltraViolet is a waste of time anyway. The real joke is that there's no iTunes version as with most other Triple Play Blu-rays.

Scanlas The 2nd

Just watched it again on DVD today, must say the action overall is disappointing however the general story of Bruce is a satisfying end. Would have liked less of the whole occupation idea and more thrilling action such as the scene in TDK where batman has to save the hostages whilst somehow neutralising the seat team without killing them. It's tricky situations like that that makes the action interesting, whereas in TDKR there was mostly token action scenes put in just to tick a box.

expectationlost

yeah money spent on hard copy can't play it on my pc, vlc fiddling and all, thanks hollywood

but got a blue-ray player down stairs so #firstworldproblems

Ipso

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Love it too. Anything that's troubled me has easily been discussed with my brother.

How did Bruce Wayne get back to Gotham with no money was one of mine: Easy answer = he is Batman.

Answer using trilogy as reference = he spent 8 years travelling the world before even becoming Batman, with no money (just a bum's coat that he bought) after stowing away on a ship. It's reasonable to assume that someone of his intelligence, resourcefulness and experience could find a way from where he was back into Gotham with no money.

Anyway, I don't think any film is perfect. I think people like to bash Batman because of its success. No one bashed Begins as much because there wasn't as much hype surrounding it, even though there are probably as many flaws in it. But, within the universe Nolan created, everything is consistent. It's not totally realistic, but it gives us a glimpse of what a realistic Batman might be like.

As a trilogy that deconstructed the man behind the mask, it's flawless. I can't quite remember any trilogy that gives a beginning, middle and end with such consistency of direction, story telling and acting. It's all quality.

Right down to the final track "Rise" - when we sight Bruce Wayne and the music kicks off, everything is rounded off perfectly. Batman has risen to be the hero that Gotham deserved and Bruce has risen out of his personal torment and started to live the life Alfred hoped he would have.

Another way Bruce may have got back is the secret tunnels the Waynes used years ago to help slaves escape.

Jumboman

Just watched it again today I think the biggest problem with the TDKR is that its too long it would be a much better movie if they took half an hour off it.

SebBerkovich

Jumboman wrote: »

Just watched it again today I think the biggest problem with the TDKR is that its too long it would be a much better movie if they took half an hour off it.

Yeah, they could have settled for a less complex story in order to make it shorter and more coherent

jaykhunter

SebBerkovich wrote: »

Yeah, they could have settled for a less complex story in order to make it shorter and more coherent

Agreed. Could've cut out Bane's backstory as well, which only serves to make him a more tragic (aka lame) baddie. Didn't help Anakin Skywalker, didn't help Bane.

On another point, I still find the time-jumps jarring. "It's 8 years later, Wayne's a broken down recluse now" and months & months of the mob rule could've been addressed/handled better.

I was watching it again last night. I still find Bane's voice hilarious That said, Batman's new gravelly voice in Batman Begins took getting used to, so by film 3 it's not noticeable...Bane only had this movie to get used to it and I never really did. It seems to be more pronounced during the opening part of the film (more phoney/put on than the rest of the film). Although more generic and possibly threading on Batman's toes, I think the "Marcus Fenix" growly smokey-joe voice would've been far better.

PhiloCypher

jaykhunter wrote: »

Agreed. Could've cut out Bane's backstory as well, which only serves to make him a more tragic (aka lame) baddie. Didn't help Anakin Skywalker, didn't help Bane.

On another point, I still find the time-jumps jarring. "It's 8 years later, Wayne's a broken down recluse now" and months & months of the mob rule could've been addressed/handled better.

I was watching it again last night. I still find Bane's voice hilarious That said, Batman's new gravelly voice in Batman Begins took getting used to, so by film 3 it's not noticeable...Bane only had this movie to get used to it and I never really did. It seems to be more pronounced during the opening part of the film (more phoney/put on than the rest of the film). Although more generic and possibly threading on Batman's toes, I think the "Marcus Fenix" growly smokey-joe voice would've been far better.

I agree with nearly all of this, Banes backstory and Talia's reveal diminished him as a character as surely as his overly theatrical line delivery. As for Batmans growl its been parodied so much in the years since Begins that it inevitably became a caricature of itself.

Mickeroo

I like his voice, the impact on popular culture its made can't be denied, its certainly the most fun film voice to imitate I've come across in a while anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2IaB38TgWs

krudler

jaykhunter wrote: »

Agreed. Could've cut out Bane's backstory as well, which only serves to make him a more tragic (aka lame) baddie. Didn't help Anakin Skywalker, didn't help Bane.

On another point, I still find the time-jumps jarring. "It's 8 years later, Wayne's a broken down recluse now" and months & months of the mob rule could've been addressed/handled better.

I was watching it again last night. I still find Bane's voice hilarious That said, Batman's new gravelly voice in Batman Begins took getting used to, so by film 3 it's not noticeable...Bane only had this movie to get used to it and I never really did. It seems to be more pronounced during the opening part of the film (more phoney/put on than the rest of the film). Although more generic and possibly threading on Batman's toes, I think the "Marcus Fenix" growly smokey-joe voice would've been far better.

I love Bane's voice, it would have been easier to do a typical "rauhhhr I'ma kill Batman" growl but its something different and works.

krudler

Mickeroo wrote: »

I like his voice, the impact on popular culture its made can't be denied, its certainly the most fun film voice to imitate I've come across in a while anyway

I'm pretty good at doing imitations (always wanted to get into donig voicework) and yeah its a hoot, I went as Walter White for Halloween and spent half the night wearing the gasmask that was supposed to sit on my head talking like Bane intead :pac:

Antar Bolaeisk

Sad Professor wrote: »

UltraViolet is a waste of time anyway. The real joke is that there's no iTunes version as with most other Triple Play Blu-rays.

I thought they were packaging the Mila Jovovich film alongside Batman for some bizarre reason.

The reality at least makes a bit more sense.

Sad Professor

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

I thought they were packaging the Mila Jovovich film alongside Batman for some bizarre reason.

lol.

Yeah, it's a stupid name.

Sad Professor

And re: Bane, the purpose of his backstory was not to make him tragic, it was to establish him as the dark side of Bruce Wayne. Each of the villains in these films was based on different mythological archetypes. Ra's in Begins was the Mentor, the Joker in TDK was the Trickster, and Bane in TDKR was the Shadow. The Shadow is usually depicted as the dark side of the hero and it's not unusual for them to be humanised in the end. Good examples of this kind of archetype are Saruman in LOTR or Darth Vader in Star Wars. Interestingly in both cases they turn out to be servants of a higher power. Bane's backstory was essential in establishing him as the Shadow archetype.

Besides, villains need backstories. It's a mistake to think that the Joker didn't have one. He did. In fact, in true trickster style, he had more than one. Part of what was so frighteningly effective about Ledger's Joker was that he seemed to believe them both. The result was not so much a character as a force of nature who defied explanation - the perfect match for the everlasting, incorruptible symbol of Batman. Bane played a different role in the story though. His purpose was to be a mirror for Bruce Wayne.

jpm4

Sad Professor wrote: »

Besides, villains need backstories .

No they don't. I can definitely say i am not the richer for knowing say Darth Vader and Hannibal Lector's back stories. The mystery is part of the appeal.

Dempsey

Did anyone need to know the back story of Predator?? No

Corholio

But a backstory gives meaning and purpose to future actions by the villain. Of course it's not a general blanket effect, but I think Bane benefited from the backstory, actually IMO it was ideal because, despite the mask and indestructible image he projects, he's a man in pain and has past physical and mental trauma.

Sad Professor

Dempsey wrote: »

Did anyone need to know the back story of Predator?? No

I wouldn't even consider the predator a villain. To be a villain you must first be a character, which the predator isn't. He's like the shark in Jaws or the xenomorph in Alien, an animal doing what animals do.

jpm4 wrote: »

No they don't. I can definitely say i am not the richer for knowing say Darth Vader and Hannibal Lector's back stories. The mystery is part of the appeal.

But that's crazy. Lecter's backstory is part of what makes him so frightening. The fact that he was a brilliant psychologist who was also a serial killer who ate his patients. I assume you are talking about the prequel, which I haven't seen, in which case I'd agree that that's probably revealing too much. But Lecter does have a backstory in Silence of the Lambs. As does Vader in Star Wars. The reveal in Empire is shocking because we had been led to believe that Vader had killed Luke's father. That's all backstory.

jpm4

Sad Professor wrote: »

I wouldn't even consider the predator a villain. To be a villain you must first be a character, which the predator isn't. He's like the shark in Jaws or the xenomorph in Alien, an animal doing what animals do.


But that's crazy. Lecter's backstory is part of what makes him so frightening. The fact that he was a brilliant psychologist who was also a serial killer who ate his patients. I assume you are talking about the prequel, which I haven't seen, in which case I'd agree that that's probably revealing too much. But Lecter does have a backstory in Silence of the Lambs. As does Vader in Star Wars. The reveal in Empire is shocking because we had been led to believe that Vader had killed Luke's father. That's all backstory.

Of course I was refering to the prequel films in both cases. I don't want to sound nit picky here because you're right to some degree, but the backstory reveled about Vader and Lecter is absolutely minimal in the original films - blink and you'll miss it stuff - and goes in no way to explain the characters motivations or most importantly how they became to be what they are. Once that is revealed the characters frankly suck as the story of how they came to be is not anywhere as interesting as what they are.

G-Money

Finally got around to seeing this tonight on Blu-Ray. I thought it was good but I'm not sure if I like it more than the Dark Knight. But I suspect I might end up liking it more. The ending was great I thought though.

Brain Stroking

Didnt like it. Simplistic stuff.

jaykhunter

Has Nolan ever said any of this "shadow aspect of Batman" stuff or is this your own personal musing? I find it pretty interesting but I also think it's more of a hypothesis/your own conclusion than what's actually on the screen.

Ras and Joker were given (just) enough backstory to compliment/explain their actions during their films but Bane's goes far beyond that, some including myself felt that it actually became detrimental. Definitely could've been put into an extended edition instead IMO.

I haven't seen it in quite some time, but did the character of Anton Chigurh from No Country for Old Men have any form of backstory, bar that he had to find that case? He was definitely a villain and the fact you had no idea who he was made it far more tense.

Sad Professor

jaykhunter wrote: »

Has Nolan ever said any of this "shadow aspect of Batman" stuff or is this your own personal musing? I find it pretty interesting but I also think it's more of a hypothesis/your own conclusion than what's actually on the screen.

I don't know if he's talked about it in interviews. He doesn't have to, really. It's all in the film. Nolan studied literature so he'd be very familiar with archetypes like the ones I mentioned. I don't see how anyone can view Bane as anything but a double/mirror image of Bruce Wayne. But you're right, it's just my interpretation like everything else in this thread.

Gauss

Sad Professor wrote: »

I don't know if he's talked about it in interviews. He doesn't have to, really. It's all in the film. Nolan studied literature so he'd be very familiar with archetypes like the ones I mentioned. I don't see how anyone can view Bane as anything but a double/mirror image of Bruce Wayne. But you're right, it's just my interpretation like everything else in this thread.

Batman and Bane are similar, they both want to fight for justice. Bane is is more extreme and more twisted in his views of achieving justice.

Ipso

jaykhunter wrote: »

Has Nolan ever said any of this "shadow aspect of Batman" stuff or is this your own personal musing? I find it pretty interesting but I also think it's more of a hypothesis/your own conclusion than what's actually on the screen.

Ras and Joker were given (just) enough backstory to compliment/explain their actions during their films but Bane's goes far beyond that, some including myself felt that it actually became detrimental. Definitely could've been put into an extended edition instead IMO.

But his story didnt go beyond the prison, and wasn't some of that story was actually Talia's?

a/tel

Dunno has this been raised already here but i wonder what happened the Batpod after Selina Kyle had finished with it.
Did she take it with her as a souvenir????. Or was it left for Blake??.

Praeglacialis

Hope this is relevant to the Films category. I find it interesting wondering about the possible interpretations of any given film.

I was watching The Dark Knight Rises the other day and detected a strong anti-revolutionary message in it. It seems to me that Bane and his associates seem to represent a sort of revolutionary communist or anarchist force. Where most other villains or groups of villains might try to take control of Gotham for themselves, Bane is saying, 'Gotham is yours.' It is run in the name of the people. The sentencing by Scare Crow's character seems to reflect the same, where the victim's guilt has been already ruled by the 'people', and they are resigned to choose between exile or death. This is kind of reminiscent of the Stalinist regime I feel. Also, towards the end there is the, perhaps metaphorical reset of the city by a revolutionary who is also a citizen. Reaching a state where everyone is equal. Bane is seen to be a character who is against the division between rich and poor, a socialist if you will. Such as in the stock market where he is told that there wasn't any money to steal. He responds with, 'Really, they why are you here?' Batman somewhat represents the status quo. He's essentially the right hand man of the regular police institution, or at least was. He represents a slight struggle against untoward forces that the police go though but nothing more.

Thoughts?