DSL profile lowered - Caught between Vodafone and Eircom

Valyr

Last week my home broadband (fixed-line ADSL, non-NGB, ~4km from exchange) connection dropped out of the blue and all DSL sync was lost on my router.
I called Vodafone (my ISP) to see what was going on and was told by their tech. support that they didn't know what the problem was, but that by dropping my profile down from 3mbps to 1mbps they might be able to fix it, so they did; to no avail, so they thought it was a problem with the exchange server and sent an engineer out.
The connection was back up the next day, but stuck at 1mbps and now Vodafone are telling me that they cannot bring the profile back up to 3mbps (nor up to the 5mbps that they think my line can actually support..) because Eircom have for some reason downgraded the profile on my line to 1mbps max.

I told Vodafone that this wasn't acceptable since we've been getting 3mbps for a few years now and I've been working from home (and plan to continue doing so) under the assumption that I'll have a decent DSL connection to work with..

In fairness to Vodafone, the guy I spoke to from their tech. support was courteous and made an effort to get back to me about the issue after a second call on the matter, but I've been told that there's nothing they can do right now and I'm not the only one in the same situation.

Right now my connection is at about 0.6mbps according to speedtest.net, which is an absolute pain compared to the 2.8mbps I was getting until recently and doesn't cut it for anything beyond basic connectivity in 2012.

So, what the hell can I do? It's frustrating to wait for Vodafone to 'get back to me' while their agent escalates the issue while I sit here with a subpar connection that we're already paying over the odds for and with no timeframe whatsoever for a solution to a problem that seems to have been caused by Eircom (according to Vodafone).

Any advice appreciated.

bkehoe

Lots of people in this situation including my parents and some friends. Eircom regraded all the lines to allow the prequal value to be the highest that a reseller can set rather than allowing them to set the actual attainable value for the profile.

As a result my parents are stuck at 2MBit when the line used to work happily for years (and still has the same stats) at 5MBit. Vodafone can see its capable of more than 4MBit from their end but can't do anything.

I've often chatted to Darren over on the VF support forum about it and its a limitation imposed on them by their suppliers (Eircom) which sounds identical to your case.

Valyr

Cheers for the reply!
So the question is then, can anything be done about it? It stinks of anti-competitive practice by Eircom.

If I had the choice I'd drop both Vodafone and Eircom like **** off a shovel but the only alternative where I live is to go with some form of mobile broadband which will get me about the same speeds and worse latency; since UPC don't appear to serve houses outside of major towns and any other basic DSL provider will presumably still be giving their service within Eircom's stranglehold..

Nody

Call Eircom and say you're considering changing over to them and wonder what speeds they could offer you.

Not saying it will work but it's amazing what a sales person can get done behind the scene in a company...

roast

What's the Attainable rate reported by your modem? Should be in the statistics.
Sounds like the Bitstream Product (not the profile) has been changed, which only allows a 1mb profile. If this is the case, your ISP should be able to change the Product, and then change the Profile back to 3mbps.

Valyr

I had been considering doing that, Nody. Unfortunately our current contract with Vodafone doesn't expire until September so unless I can convince Eircom to give us the first few months for free or something like that we'll be stung with Vodafone's contract-breakage charges.

roast, unfortunately the modem I have doesn't report attainable speeds; only what it is currently syncing at and the current line attenuation (47/31 dB at 1024/128 bps).
What is the Bitstream product that you're referring to? I haven't heard that term used distinctly from the profile until now.
Vodafone's own tech. support people are the ones telling me that they're unable to change the profile because of Eircom having regraded the line, and their 'agent is currently escalating and investigating the issue, etc.'

Something I noticed while looking for alternatives out there is that Eircom tells me on their sales line-checker at eircom.net that my line is NGB-enabled, while Vodafone told me the last time we upgraded our package (about 10 months ago) that our line/exchange doesn't support NGB.
I wonder if I requested a changeover to NGB could that force a change in the profile?
Or is Eircom's site just lying about NGB to lure me into getting standard adsl and then saying "it'll do" ?

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Edit:
Contacted Eircom sales to see what they could offer me. Next-Gen Broadband... at 1mbps.
**** sake. This is infuriating.

bkehoe

My conspiracy theory is that they did it to save themselves bandwidth and delay having to upgrade backhauls to exchanges. It mostly seems to affect people with mid to high attenuation on the lines. In most other countries DSL providers often allow a router to find its own peak and then set an appropriate profile with the prequal value just being given as guidance. The prequal test is completely inaccurate for a real world reflection of line conditions as it only measures on a limited set of frequencies and can't be aware of unique conditions that may exist on a line.

My parents line is 42dB, I see yours is 47dB. This probably explains why yours is limited to 1 and my parents to 2MBit. Ever since I first got DSL in for my parents the prequal was always showing 2MBit but in the past a quick call to Eircom tech support resulted in them happily setting it to whatever profile you wanted, even one higher than the line would support! Today I don't know what Eircoms own tech support are capable of as most people I know have run into this issue after changing provider as the line profile gets reset upon a change of provider or package.

roast

47db allows more headroom even past 3mbps. OP, what make/model modem do you have?
A bitstream "product" is a type of broadband, and is a group of profiles.
A profile is a preset download/upload rate.

dub45

If this is really an issue of poor service from Eircom as a wholesaler then why arent Vodafone pursuing this at management level in respect of contractual obligations etc etc?

Why not try making a formal complaint to Comreg in respect of both Eircom and Vodafone and see if it gets anywhere?

(and once again for anyone who hasn't seen this before http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats.htm

Anyone with dsl should make sure and know what their line stats are)

roast

dub45 wrote: »

If this is really an issue of poor service from Eircom as a wholesaler then why arent Vodafone pursuing this at management level in respect of contractual obligations etc etc?

ISP's are far too lenient to their suppliers.
It brings up another topic really. If Eircom find that their wholesale customers are too "needy" or are demanding too much, it makes no difference to eircom if they hike up wholesale prices to the point the client would have to pull out of the contract. The customer loses business as they don't have a supplier, and the end user moves back to eircom (or another bitstream reseller), hence, no income lost...for the most part.

Valyr

bkehoe wrote: »

Today I don't know what Eircoms own tech support are capable of as most people I know have run into this issue after changing provider as the line profile gets reset upon a change of provider or package.

The thing is that we changed to Vodafone over a year ago and aside from various hiccups here and there we've been running on 3mbps just fine for quite some time now. It seems that the line was downgraded in such a way that it allowed us to maintain the 3mbps profile, but when Vodafone switched our profile down to 1mbps to test a fault they couldn't bring it back up to 3mbps due to Eircom's limit.
The fact is, the line was running 3mbps fine until thursday of last week and should, in theory, still be able to do so if it weren't for this poxy artifical limit that Eircom have placed on it.

roast wrote: »

47db allows more headroom even past 3mbps. OP, what make/model modem do you have?
A bitstream "product" is a type of broadband, and is a group of profiles.
A profile is a preset download/upload rate.

Indeed, the more helpful of the Vodafone people I spoke to told me that our line is capable of 5mbps realistically according to the line stats he was seeing.
I'm using a Netopia 3347NWG modem (firmware v7.8.0r2). I've been meaning to replace it with something better for quite some time, but I haven't had the money.
It tells me basic line stats for the current connection as follows, but nothing else that I've been able to find in any of the submenus:

Downstream / Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 1024 / 128
SN Margin (dB) 29.60 / 31.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 47.50 / 31.50
CRC Errors 13 / 0

dub45 wrote: »

If this is really an issue of poor service from Eircom as a wholesaler then why arent Vodafone pursuing this at management level in respect of contractual obligations etc etc?

Why not try making a formal complaint to Comreg in respect of both Eircom and Vodafone and see if it gets anywhere?

I got the impression from the Vodafone tech that they are pursuing it in some way; but I was told that there's no timeframe for a solution to my issue.
I'm planning to call ComReg and see what they say.

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Edit:
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I called ComReg and the guy I was talking to understood the issue and took note of the whole thing as well as giving me a reference number, but they can't intervene until a certain number of working days have passed without a resolution (i.e.; until the 25th); so Vodafone and Eircom have until then to sort this out before I can drag ComReg into it fully.
Does anyone know how much influence ComReg can actually have in a situation like this? I mean, does ComReg's involvement typically produce a result for the individual consumer in a timely fashion or is more just a means to log the complaint and get a slap on the wrist for the provider(s)?

dub45

roast wrote: »

ISP's are far too lenient to their suppliers.
It brings up another topic really. If Eircom find that their wholesale customers are too "needy" or are demanding too much, it makes no difference to eircom if they hike up wholesale prices to the point the client would have to pull out of the contract. The customer loses business as they don't have a supplier, and the end user moves back to eircom (or another bitstream reseller), hence, no income lost...for the most part.

Surely Comreg have some say in the wholesale prices Eircom charge and they just cant raise them as and when they might wish? Also if Eircom were to raise prices as you suggest then there wouldnt be any other bitstream resellers and Comreg would be intervening?

About 18 months or so ago I had a problem on the line (I am with Smart) and I reported it to Smart in the afternoon - I had a call to the house from an Eircom guy then next morning! I called Smart to thank them for the prompt service and they told me that there were new service level agreements in place which ensured speedier service.

Why would Eircom be bothered altering the profiles of other isps's customers anyway?

dub45

Valyr wrote: »

..............................


It tells me basic line stats for the current connection as follows, but nothing else that I've been able to find in any of the submenus:

Downstream / Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 1024 / 128
SN Margin (dB) 29.60 / 31.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 47.50 / 31.50
CRC Errors 13 / 0

Have you ever checked your internal wiring?

roast

dub45 wrote: »

Surely Comreg have some say in the wholesale prices Eircom charge and they just cant raise them as and when they might wish? Also if Eircom were to raise prices as you suggest then there wouldnt be any other bitstream resellers and Comreg would be intervening?

Yep, comreg would have a say. My statement was hypothetical really(in the sense that I haven't come across it personally) , but it is a possible situation. "Don't bite the hand that feeds" springs to mind :P

dub45 wrote: »

About 18 months or so ago I had a problem on the line (I am with Smart) and I reported it to Smart in the afternoon - I had a call to the house from an Eircom guy then next morning! I called Smart to thank them for the prompt service and they told me that there were new service level agreements in place which ensured speedier service.

There's different SLA's available from wholesale. Depends on how much the customer (ISP) is willing to pay.

dub45 wrote: »

Why would Eircom be bothered altering the profiles of other isps's customers anyway?

Who knows! For repairs, it would be considered a valid troubleshooting step, and an end-of-the-road repair, but as a general rule of thumb, the reseller should have the final say.


OP, you should post in the Talk To:Vodafone forum for more help on this. I'm almost convinced the product change is the problem... whether your ISP would admit to this or not, is another story.

Bohrio

Not the first time I have seen this.

Some times this it what happens.

Your line was fine and you had your original prequal (lets say green 5 mb). Then there is a PSTN fault on your line (that's when you start experiencing issues with your broadband), you contact vodafone and they ask Eircom to investigate. While they are investigating it Eircom's automated system runs a new prequal on your line and it is now testing amber 1 mb.

There is little Vodafone can do (or Eircom Retail) as the only way to fix this is to request a new prequal from Eircom but by the time Vodafone gets it the automated system would have probably run a new one already. It takes around 4 weeks for a new one anyway..

Otherwise little else you can do!

Bohrio

Valyr wrote: »

I called ComReg and the guy I was talking to understood the issue and took note of the whole thing as well as giving me a reference number, but they can't intervene until a certain number of working days have passed without a resolution (i.e.; until the 25th); so Vodafone and Eircom have until then to sort this out before I can drag ComReg into it fully.
Does anyone know how much influence ComReg can actually have in a situation like this? I mean, does ComReg's involvement typically produce a result for the individual consumer in a timely fashion or is more just a means to log the complaint and get a slap on the wrist for the provider(s)?

Comreg can do very little with regards speeds issues. Mostly because there is no SLA regarding this.

They can put a bit of pressure on Vodafone and Vodafone might be able to put some pressure on Eircom but at the end of the day it is up to Eircom to fix it. In my opinion all they need to do is run a new prequal. Unless your line

I'd say give it time, pretty sure you will get there eventually, this will sort out by itself... give it a week or two. Less if you are lucky!

lucernarian

dub45 wrote: »

Why would Eircom be bothered altering the profiles of other isps's customers anyway?

Eircom's unified gateway thing allows ISPs many things but one thing it cannot control is the prequal limit that eircom wholesale staff can arbitrarily put on a line. My family's line was also limited to 1 mbit even though it could support more and in the end, LLU was the only answer. Eircom wholesale wouldn't budge despite repeated requests from Vodafone. There have also been threads on the issue in the eircom forum. Their staff would or could not give a satisfactory answer on why a perfectly functional line had speed reduced from 3 to 1 mbps after a change was made to a customer's package.


In the past, eircom's wholesale systems could allow any line speed package to be applied to a line once it passed the test if the order was forced through or whatever but since the amber programme days, this has been increasingly curtailed. Nowadays, those who have a speed exceeding prequal will have the speed reduced upon any changes made to it through the wholesale broadband provisioning controls (the unified gateway, that all DSL ISPs here use).

It is an issue that ComReg will have to get involved in if things are to change. Eircom's prequal method is frankly medieval compared to BT's Max DSL offerings available for years now in the UK or indeed many other operators worldwide.