Teenagers experimenting with illegal substances.

Katgurl

I only read your OP and skimmed the rest but here's my view for what it's worth.

As a kid, you take guidance from your parents / teachers etc. As an adult you make your own decisions. The teenage years are the bit in-between where you question direction & push against the authority figures. It is during this stage that you learn how to make your own decisions and learn when to trust other people's judgement. A parent enjoying a friction-free blissful period with their teenage child by letting teenager do whatever he/she wants is IMO doing them no favours. On the other end of the spectrum, not allowing the teenager make any decisions and ruling with an iron-fist could be longterm as detrimental - how will the teenager fare as an adult when the parent is not there to instruct him/her?

It is the parents job to provide guidelines, advice, consequences until the child or teenager becomes an adult. In short - protect them. This is not always going to be well received but that doesn't mean the parent can ignore this responsibility and turn a blind eye to; underage drinking / inappropriate $exual encounters / no plans for the future / drug abuse. When I think about how our mother relentlessly & calmly battled us to get careers on track / make sensible decisions despite the fact she was met wiht nothing but stony resistance and when I think of it, years & years of bad behaviour.

I've heard this argument a million times about allowing your kid take drugs / drink at an early age 'in the safety of the home' but the fact remains its not just the drugs / drink that appeal its the act of rebelling, of pushing your parents away. So if you're smoking dope at home IMO you're going to get bored of that quickly and make even worse decisions in the future - further push the boundaries.

Speaking from direct experience, I don't think prolonged drug use provide anything much apart from a detrimental effect and I won't be tolerating them in my home. HOwever, I hope I raise kids with enough cop-on to make sensible decisions from themselves and when they don't, at least know they can always come home for support. Every kid needs at least one parent, most of them hopefully have enough friends.

Grayson

An0n wrote: »

Why is everyone so preoccupied with insulting with OP?
I raise good points, as pointed out by many in this thread.
If you can't discuss both sides of a discussion without a pretense of condescending notions, then just leave.
There's no place for you here if that's the case. We're here for an educated discussion.

I liked your points. I disliked the way you tried to enforce them.
I never said I had a lot of experience or knowledge, I just raised points to discuss here. One of the main purposes of this forum is to have open conversations that can have very productive responses.
Perhaps you're the person who needs to learn?

Thank you for your time; nevertheless.

Dude, you said drugs are bad because they're illegal. that argument makes no sense. Some drugs are bad because they can cause physical, psychological or psychiatric damage. For example, Crystal meth, thank god we don't have that in ireland, is pretty horrific. Google pictures of meth addicts if you don't want to sleep tonight. Marijuana is healthier than alcohol. This is what I found (along with plenty of photo's of Snoop dog) when I googled marijuana addict.
http://glossynews.com/wp-content/themes/gazette/thumb.php?src=http://glossynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/stoner_01.jpg&h=300&w=300&zc=1&q=90

To be honest, when I was 18, I thought all drugs were bad. I came from a sheltered country background and had zero experience of them. After years of hanging out with people who smoked, I started myself. But before I did, I educated myself. I knew all the risks and knew what I was getting into.

The thing is a lot of people wouldn't put that effort into it. They'd either think they're all bad or just do them anyway.

And that's why kids need a comprehensive drug education. Because, if it's left to people like you who admit they don't know anything, or to drug addits who think they're all great, then the kids will get opinions and not facts. They need to know the facts about everything from caffine to heroin. they need to know how it affects their bodies and what the consequences are. Just telling kids that drugs are bad because they are illegal is an argument that kids will eventually see through.

Editing to add. let me put it this way. As I mentioned earlier, my sex education came from catholic priests and a catholic couple. Most of it revolved around how sex before marriage was wrong and how "thou shalt not spill the seed of life"

Just telling us it's wrong without actually letting us know about the subject was reckless. We all left with no idea of STDs or contraception. I know plenty of guys who knocked up girls.

Telling people not to do drugs because they're bad, and they're bad because they're illegal is similar to educating boys about sex by telling them that sex is wrong and it's wrong because the bible says so.

crazy cabbage

Just skimed through past posts so sorry if i miss something

First off to the OP. Well done on how you conducted yourself. You remained very polite during the whole debate and seem knowledgable. We need more people like you.

In regards cannabis i have given my views countless times. There is no harm in it. I have only done it a few times though. I would like to to it a cuple times a month but hold back becouse of the laws.

I would love to have a conversayion with my parents about drugs and drug misuse but i know that they would kill me if they knew that i even knew someone who smoked it not to mention tryed it myslef. However i aslo know that they know nothing about any drugs. When they see the word drug they just see one illegal substance that is always on TV and that kills people and ruins peoples lives. The notion that all drug arn't the same and the responsibe use of drugs would be allien to them

I am thinking of trying to work my way into a conversation with them. start with the potential uses of hemp as a alternative use of paper/biodiesal (dad loves the concept of biodiesal and enviorment friendly stuff) and say that it is illegal. work into cannabis and then blast them with my knowledge of THC and the like. Prehaps i will not be killed this way.

I hate that i have to go behind my partens back and i really dont want to. This debate has to happen on a national level so everyone can benifit from some basic knowldege of drugs.

Other drugs such as shrooms and DMT (which the OP has mentioned) should also be legilised in my opinion. DMT is a fasanating drug. It is an A class drug however it Is in almost every living thing. Your brain (pional gland) produces it when you sleep and is also produced in massive ammounts when you die and when you are born. Also produced when you meddatate (so we should make medatation illegal???)
This is something that i would (and will) experment with in a cuple of years. The OP mentioned briefly about using drugs for spirtual reasons. This is a drug that i believe can be used for the purpose (and many clutures around the world do)
One final note on DMT. This is anti-addictive. I have a friend who has taken it and said that it was The best most worthwhile experience that he has ever had. He said he learned so much about himslef in those 5 mins but he also said that he would never go near it again.


Some drugs are truly horiffic. Craic and meth come to mind but there is many more. These are addictive and ruin peoples lives. They help no one.

I dont get why the responsible use of drugs allienates so many people thoguh??


Sorry. Went on a bit of a rant there.

An0n

Grayson wrote: »

Dude, you said drugs are bad because they're illegal. that argument makes no sense. Some drugs are bad because they can cause physical, psychological or psychiatric damage. For example, Crystal meth, thank god we don't have that in ireland, is pretty horrific. Google pictures of meth addicts if you don't want to sleep tonight. Marijuana is healthier than alcohol. This is what I found (along with plenty of photo's of Snoop dog) when I googled marijuana addict.
http://glossynews.com/wp-content/themes/gazette/thumb.php?src=http://glossynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/stoner_01.jpg&h=300&w=300&zc=1&q=90

To be honest, when I was 18, I thought all drugs were bad. I came from a sheltered country background and had zero experience of them. After years of hanging out with people who smoked, I started myself. But before I did, I educated myself. I knew all the risks and knew what I was getting into.

The thing is a lot of people wouldn't put that effort into it. They'd either think they're all bad or just do them anyway.

And that's why kids need a comprehensive drug education. Because, if it's left to people like you who admit they don't know anything, or to drug addits who think they're all great, then the kids will get opinions and not facts. They need to know the facts about everything from caffine to heroin. they need to know how it affects their bodies and what the consequences are. Just telling kids that drugs are bad because they are illegal is an argument that kids will eventually see through.

Editing to add. let me put it this way. As I mentioned earlier, my sex education came from catholic priests and a catholic couple. Most of it revolved around how sex before marriage was wrong and how "thou shalt not spill the seed of life"

Just telling us it's wrong without actually letting us know about the subject was reckless. We all left with no idea of STDs or contraception. I know plenty of guys who knocked up girls.

Telling people not to do drugs because they're bad, and they're bad because they're illegal is similar to educating boys about sex by telling them that sex is wrong and it's wrong because the bible says so.

I said they must be dangerous because they're illegal. Insinuating that the legality reflects the danger.
Truth is illegality is decided based of the way the drug alters the individual's mindstate aswell as the danger. Or the potential to cause harm. Or the history of the drug or taxability.

I do agree with your points though. Thank you.

An0n

crazy cabbage wrote: »

Just skimed through past posts so sorry if i miss something

First off to the OP. Well done on how you conducted yourself. You remained very polite during the whole debate and seem knowledgable. We need more people like you.

In regards cannabis i have given my views countless times. There is no harm in it. I have only done it a few times though. I would like to to it a cuple times a month but hold back becouse of the laws.

I would love to have a conversayion with my parents about drugs and drug misuse but i know that they would kill me if they knew that i even knew someone who smoked it not to mention tryed it myslef. However i aslo know that they know nothing about any drugs. When they see the word drug they just see one illegal substance that is always on TV and that kills people and ruins peoples lives. The notion that all drug arn't the same and the responsibe use of drugs would be allien to them

I am thinking of trying to work my way into a conversation with them. start with the potential uses of hemp as a alternative use of paper/biodiesal (dad loves the concept of biodiesal and enviorment friendly stuff) and say that it is illegal. work into cannabis and then blast them with my knowledge of THC and the like. Prehaps i will not be killed this way.

I hate that i have to go behind my partens back and i really dont want to. This debate has to happen on a national level so everyone can benifit from some basic knowldege of drugs.

Other drugs such as shrooms and DMT (which the OP has mentioned) should also be legilised in my opinion. DMT is a fasanating drug. It is an A class drug however it Is in almost every living thing. Your brain (pional gland) produces it when you sleep and is also produced in massive ammounts when you die and when you are born. Also produced when you meddatate (so we should make medatation illegal???)
This is something that i would (and will) experment with in a cuple of years. The OP mentioned briefly about using drugs for spirtual reasons. This is a drug that i believe can be used for the purpose (and many clutures around the world do)
One final note on DMT. This is anti-addictive. I have a friend who has taken it and said that it was The best most worthwhile experience that he has ever had. He said he learned so much about himslef in those 5 mins but he also said that he would never go near it again.


Some drugs are truly horiffic. Craic and meth come to mind but there is many more. These are addictive and ruin peoples lives. They help no one.

I dont get why the responsible use of drugs allienates so many people thoguh??


Sorry. Went on a bit of a rant there.

Thanks for the compliment and your views. Much appreciated.

I should have made it clearer that I was talking about minor drugs such as canabis and some stimulants etc in my post. The usual teenage recreational drugs per se. It would have avoided much confusion in the thread.

I do believe some drugs can be very much spiritual. I myself, regardless of the legality of DMT, wish to try it during my lifetime. To experience the full trip of a REM sleep dream and not forget it would be exceptionally fascinating. Seeing as we need REM sleep to stay alive it's very interesting why we need these hallucinations.

More research needs to go into drugs like DMT or other hallucinogens or full sensory anesthetics such as ketamine. Our knowledge is limited by our sensory perceptions, but cutting off these sensory observations leaves a whole field of information still unexplored.

Once again though, drugs are dangerous and the way DMT is produced is quite dangerous. The end product has a lot of plant alkaloids in it, some of which can be detrimental to people's health.

Regarding the original topic though, I wouldn't introduce any teenagers to DMT or other hallucinogens. They're drugs of self discovery and it's up to the individual to decide whether or not they think it's a good idea in their own time. Partially because the experience of hallucinogens is varied quite a bit depending on the mindstate the individual is in. But I digress, teens should still be educated about every street drug.

paddyandy

No Ordinary Library could hold the amount of Junk written about Junk over the last several decades the reason being is that there's a market for it .There is an insatiable desire for escape from reality whatever the cost .I see it everywhere we can't seem to live with reality at all .Our Food is covered in sauce ,technology by the names Ice Cream Sandwich .Everything Cloaked with Deceit and embellished with lies .Nobody calls anything by it's real name any more .

mikom

paddyandy wrote: »

.Nobody calls anything by it's real name any more .

*posts anonymously on message board.*

cartell_best

Lads, I was a teenager when MDMA (E, yokes) was a new thing. I remember the first time I ever saw Karl Cox was in the metroland on Waterford and that slowly graduated to Sir Henry's in Cork. Little did I know at the time that what is transpiring now is just soo fooked up. What I did when I was growing up is a hell of a different planet than what we're seeing now.

I went out, banged out of my head and told every person next to me (as they did) that love was all that was going on. Speckled doves, mitsubishi's, whatever was around, there was an abundance of love and in those fookin crazy rave days, nobody ever went equipped to cause or hurt another with a blade or whatever some fool seems to intrepret as a "good night"...Teenagers experimenting with illegal substances is not the problem, its "some" teens feeling the need or urge to go out and just be a koont! Like a lot that was lost, a lot of young people have a sense of entitlement or they're just scumbags.

hatrickpatrick

I could be an unusual case here. I've suffered from depression (actually I've recently become slightly convinced I might be borderline personality, but I have enough issues to deal with right now without throwing that into the mix as well so I don't want a confirmation just yet! ). Point is, I've heard that "happy drugs" (IE those which cause chemical euphoria, E, MDMA etc) cause your body to react by flushing all those euphoric hormones out and leave you with a horrible sort of enforced misery the next day. As someone who's had depression that absolutely terrifies me. Even getting too drunk brings out an angry and miserable gobsh!te from what people usually think is a fairly charismatic an cheerful lad.

In all honesty, I think if people talked more about the genuinely negative aspects of drugs, such as hangovers, after-drug depression in the case of happy drugs, etc , it would have more effective.

Telling teenagers that drugs are bad because they lead to lowered inhibitions and irresponsible behavior is DISASTROUS. People don't seem to realize that that's exactly why teens take drugs - they want to be fearless, in many cases so they can chat up a girl instead of quaking in their boots. Telling them that getting high will cause them to become overconfident is like telling a gambler that placing a bet will cause him to get rich. In my case, I was warned that taking drugs could conceivably bring out my dark side and cause me to have really sad nights, and that was more than enough to keep me away from them.

It genuinely is all about education. No teenager believes the sensationalist crap, "all drugs are bad because the grown ups say they are", and most don't care about decades into the future either - they need to be told specifically what kind of short term nastiness comes from taking drugs. I guarantee that would be more effective than any of the current conditioning methods used to try and steer teens away from it.

Another brief example: I don't smoke, and I've smoked weed rarely but I avoid it like the plague. Why? Because I'm a singer and I don't want to risk damaging my voice. Again, that's an immediate, definite risk - rather than the vague "The establishment says it's bad, therefore it's bad" angle most "official" programs seem to take.

Fizzlesque

An0n wrote: »

Surely drugs can't be all that bad then?.. Well of course they're extremely bad, they wouldn't be illegal otherwise. Unless of course they can't be taxed, unlike alcohol and tobacco; which are, in fact, some of the most dangerous substances in the world that you can abuse.


Which circumstance would you rather expose your teen to?
Which would be viewed as most negatively by society?
and why? Explain your views. I could be completely wrong according to someone (:


Thank you for your time.

Hello An0n, I see you've already responded to someone's comment relating to your initial comment (quoted above) but I was also struck by that part of your post. I'm 43 and I started smoking grass (well, hash in the beginning, and moving on to grass eventually) in my early 20s and it's my opinion that the fact grass/hash is smoked mostly mixed with tobacco is far more lethal than the fact grass/hash is smoked at all.

I stopped smoking grass regularly about three years ago, and now enjoy it every once in a while, but I try to do so without tobacco. It was fairly easy to stop smoking weed, but has, so far, proven extremely difficult to stop smoking tobacco - permanently.

I lived in Holland for 3 years, in the early 90s, and a lot of the Dutch kids I met in coffee shops smoked their weed without tobacco. When smoked with tobacco, there is a physical addiction (from the nicotine) which makes the smoker want to smoke joint after joint after joint, thereby taking in a lot more weed than when it's smoked without tobacco.

So, to answer one of your questions, if my daughter were to start smoking grass, the circumstance I'd rather she was exposed to was one where grass smoking was NOT done with tobacco. If any drug should be illegal (and I'm with Lyaiera on the subject of legality and drugs) tobacco really has no right being placed in the 'safe' zone while grass is demonised.

Same goes for alcohol, to be honest. Definitely a dangerous drug too.

On the topic of Ecstasy, the pills that my friends and I used take, back in the 90s, were much different to the pills around today. Again, if my daughter wanted to take pills, I'd want her to have them tested first. In Holland there were a few clubs/parties that had a place you could go get your pill tested before taking it. It wasn't even as necessary in those days as it would be now. One pill used be enough, nowadays some people take obscene quantities to get half the high one used provide.

Such is the danger of allowing criminals to run the 'always in demand' business of selling highs. Something people are always going to want, be that a quick fag on your coffee break, a glass of wine/pint after work, a joint or a pill so you can dance the night away.

People like to take drugs. It's time we accepted that and stopped trying to push the 'just say no' approach.

Sorry, long reply and probably a bit meandering. Hopefully not too meandering. No drugs were consumed during the making of this post

Splendour

An0n wrote: »

-Disclaimer-

Which circumstance would you rather expose your teen to?
Which would be viewed as most negatively by society?
and why? Explain your views. I could be completely wrong according to someone (:


Thank you for your time.

Some people can go through life and have a few drinks/smoke a bit of weed and it may not have any ill effects on them at all. However, there are some people who become addicted to drugs and want more and better 'highs' so they will go on to experiment with harder drugs.
Now if I, as a parent, expose my teen to drink or drugs I may regret that later on if the teen becomes an addicted adult and the guilt would be overwhelming. It is a parent's job to protect a child not expose them to something which may in the future have serious consequences-it's not a gamble I'd be willing to take.

I have a 15 year old son who smokes weed occasionally and we are constantly debating the pros and cons of weed. He has asked if he can smoke it in the house and I've refused to let him (although I know he's just pushing the boundaries as much as he can). Too many parents want to be their kids friend and be 'cool' -personally I don't mind playing bad cop as I see it as my role. I can't stop my teen smoking weed but I'm not going to condone it either. Also from the age of about 11 to about 20 our brains are 're wiring' and I think anything that interferes with that is not good. (There's a reason alcohol is illegal until the age of 18).

Until you're a parent you can't really have a view on this issue. Although I don't look on weed as being the worst drug in the world -I still worry. I worry if my son's smoking will lead to harder drugs. I worry how it may affect his schooling. I worry about him becoming a complete stoner and not living life to the full. I worry because he suffers from mild depression will this make it worse.

...There's also the issue of the very healthy cannabis plant growing in his bedroom which is going to get a drink of bleach someday...

blacklilly

Splendour wrote: »

Some people can go through life and have a few drinks/smoke a bit of weed and it may not have any ill effects on them at all. However, there are some people who become addicted to drugs and want more and better 'highs' so they will go on to experiment with harder drugs.
Now if I, as a parent, expose my teen to drink or drugs I may regret that later on if the teen becomes an addicted adult and the guilt would be overwhelming. It is a parent's job to protect a child not expose them to something which may in the future have serious consequences-it's not a gamble I'd be willing to take.

I have a 15 year old son who smokes weed occasionally and we are constantly debating the pros and cons of weed. He has asked if he can smoke it in the house and I've refused to let him (although I know he's just pushing the boundaries as much as he can). Too many parents want to be their kids friend and be 'cool' -personally I don't mind playing bad cop as I see it as my role. I can't stop my teen smoking weed but I'm not going to condone it either. Also from the age of about 11 to about 20 our brains are 're wiring' and I think anything that interferes with that is not good. (There's a reason alcohol is illegal until the age of 18).

Until you're a parent you can't really have a view on this issue. Although I don't look on weed as being the worst drug in the world -I still worry. I worry if my son's smoking will lead to harder drugs. I worry how it may affect his schooling. I worry about him becoming a complete stoner and not living life to the full. I worry because he suffers from mild depression will this make it worse.

...There's also the issue of the very healthy cannabis plant growing in his bedroom which is going to get a drink of bleach someday...

I'm sorry, your son is 15 and he has a cabbabis plant growing in his room and you allow this?

He suffers from depression and you allow him to smoke cannabis. You say you don't condone him smoking cannabis yet you allow him to grow a cannabis plant in your house and you say you play bad cop.

Grayson

blacklilly wrote: »

I'm sorry, your son is 15 and he has a cabbabis plant growing in his room and you allow this?

He suffers from depression and you allow him to smoke cannabis. You say you don't condone him smoking cannabis yet you allow him to grow a cannabis plant in your house and you say you play bad cop.

Yep, someday she's going to confiscate it and fine him

Splendour

blacklilly wrote: »

I'm sorry, your son is 15 and he has a cabbabis plant growing in his room and you allow this?

He suffers from depression and you allow him to smoke cannabis. You say you don't condone him smoking cannabis yet you allow him to grow a cannabis plant in your house and you say you play bad cop.

I don't allow him to smoke but I cant be with his 24/7. What would you suggest? Lock him in his room?!! Have you ever tried to talk a teen out of doing something they want to do? It is impossible. As I said the cannabis plant (which is just a seedling at the mo) is going to die a death.

saiint

DRUGS ARE BAD



But feel so good....

saiint

Splendour wrote: »

(There's a reason alcohol is illegal until the age of 18).
QUOTE]


Made me laugh guarenteed every person in ireland has broken this law at least at one stage of them going up in their teens ha
it shouldnt even be a law
been realistic the illegal age to drink in ireland is 11 because guards dont do anything about it


i remember when i was 12! going into a pub ordering a pint with my sqeeky voice and drinking it haha and this was only 7 years ago

splashthecash

Teenagers will be teenagers

paddyandy

If it makes you feel good then; it is good ?...........for a while but the sweet changes to bitter very soon ..... you might delay it for just a little while ....but ....it waits and waits....unfailingly it arrives with a glass of Vinegar to wash down the Filth ....Recall has everyone else laughing but not you ......'Wide eyed and legless i've gone an' done it again .'...

crazy cabbage

saiint wrote: »

Splendour wrote: »

(There's a reason alcohol is illegal until the age of 18).
QUOTE]


Made me laugh guarenteed every person in ireland has broken this law at least at one stage of them going up in their teens ha
it shouldnt even be a law
been realistic the illegal age to drink in ireland is 11 because guards dont do anything about it


i remember when i was 12! going into a pub ordering a pint with my sqeeky voice and drinking it haha and this was only 7 years ago

Hahaha. That remindes me when i was like 11 i was out with the family to a pub. was some occasion or other. I forget.
Anyway i go up to the bar (have to climb up a chair and stand on it to be seen by people behind bar) and say i want a fanta orange. The person behind the bar gives me a weird look and comes back with voddica and orange. It was very nosiy so i think he must have misheard. I didn't complain and went back to my seat and got locked.

Family found out a few mins later and thought it was the funniest thing ever.
Woke up the next day with such a headake. Didn't drink again till i was 17

:pac::pac::pac:

ScumLord

I don't think teenagers are going to respect their parents input on just about anything in most cases. When someone's in they're teens they are looking to make their own life decisions (and mistakes).

I think drug use should happen in a club setting where there's loads to do other than taking drugs. They should be able to be creative while they're on drugs. If a young adult was to try drugs in this setting away from heir parents (but under sober supervision) I think they'd have much more respect for the information they receive.

Teenagers just shouldn't use drugs that often. Drugs do carry more of a risk due to the brain still forming and the best case scenario would be to make them wait till they're 21. That's going to be difficult but if all drug users could be more open and responsible about their drug use they might value their rights and the health of the teenager more. If I was a member of a club and my membership could be revoked for dealing to teenagers I would have something to lose then and wouldn't be taking the risk.

laoch na mona

im 18 and i never touched drugs
I have no problem with cannabis Im put of by the fact you have to smoke it
I don't feel i am under developed compared to my semi literate former classmates who spend all their money on cannabis

ScumLord

laoch na mona wrote: »

I have no problem with cannabis Im put of by the fact you have to smoke it

You don't have to smoke it. Although vaporising it is out of reach for most people, but you can eat it, it just has to be prepared and you can risk ruining your weed if you don't do it properly. In places where it's legal you can just buy pills, oils, foods or butter.

crazy cabbage

laoch na mona wrote: »

I have no problem with cannabis Im put of by the fact you have to smoke it

You dont have to smoke. There is a lod of ways to take it including eadables and vaporising it.

laoch na mona

crazy cabbage wrote: »

You dont have to smoke. There is a lod of ways to take it including eadables and vaporising it.

if i was presented with an opportunity to do that i would but I've only had the chance to try it mixed with tobacco

ScumLord

laoch na mona wrote: »

if i was presented with an opportunity to do that i would but I've only had the chance to try it mixed with tobacco

The benefit of smoking or vaporising it is that it's much more controllable. You can have one toke and get high, have another and get a bit higher. With edibles your locked into whatever dose was in it for the next few hours. It actually acts differently when you ingest it too. It's more like an hallucinogenic than just smoking it so be careful when eating too.

The best bet for someone looking to try it in a more healthy way is to vaporise. The problem is your not going to meet many people that have vaporisers meaning you'll have to travel to the likes of Amsterdam where every coffeeshop has a vaporiser for their customers use.

crazy cabbage

I have smoked from a vaporiser once (out of the 3ish time i have smoked :rolleyes:) and can say it is so much nicer and smoother than any other way.

There is nothing illegal about vaporisers. I know someone who just ordered one of amazon (or somewhere like that) and got it delivered. For all they know you are vaporising mint or something in it :pac:

NegativeCreep

laoch na mona wrote: »

if i was presented with an opportunity to do that i would but I've only had the chance to try it mixed with tobacco

Just make a bong out of a bottle and some tin foil. Makes the whole experience even more fun and it's healthier

An0n

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Just make a bong out of a bottle and some tin foil. Makes the whole experience even more fun and it's healthier

Except the fumes from the plastic and tin foil..

If anything, that's definitely not healthier.

NegativeCreep

An0n wrote: »

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Just make a bong out of a bottle and some tin foil. Makes the whole experience even more fun and it's healthier

Except the fumes from the plastic and tin foil..

If anything, that's definitely not healthier.

Probably not but it's still fun to make :L I dont really care about how healthy things are tbh. You'll be a long time dead :L

An0n

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Probably not but it's still fun to make :L I dont really care about how healthy things are tbh. You'll be a long time dead :L

True that, but still. Retain at least a sufficient amount of safety.

laoch na mona

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Just make a bong out of a bottle and some tin foil. Makes the whole experience even more fun and it's healthier

sorry had to do this


are you a negative creep when you stoned:D

bad joke i know im ashamed

ScumLord

crazy cabbage wrote: »

There is nothing illegal about vaporisers.

There's nothing illegal about grinders and bongs either but the guards can still take them all off you if they believe your using them for illegal drugs.

Channel Zero

People who make out that drugs are cool and hip and great....disgust me.

ScumLord

Channel Zero wrote: »

People who make out that drugs are cool and hip and great....disgust me.

Really? Bill Hicks, Bob Dylan, Bob Marley, W.B Yeats, The founding fathers of the US and an endless list of scientists, writers, musicians and artists disgust you. How do you live around all the disgusting art that drugs developed? Your life must be awful with all that hate.

crazy cabbage

Channel Zero wrote: »

People who make out that drugs are cool and hip and great....disgust me.

All them teenagers drinking must cause you great disgust then....

And i dont think any drug is cool. I treat them with respect and take an educated approach to them.
There is some 'drugs' that i find fascinating such as DMT. Currently reading a book written by a doctor richered strassman on the subject of DMT. Yes i do think that DMT is a 'great' 'drug' if used properly and responsably.

Do i disgust you? I am in my early 20's. Have gotten a 1.1 in all my college exams to date (engineering too i might add). Volenteer with an ambulance service. Work part time (granted. I dont get many hours). I very rarely drink and haven't been 'drunk' in years. I have never smoked tobbaco. I try and run 30k a week. I take an intelectual interest in natural hallucinogens (such as DMT). Do i disgust you?

When you say that i disgust you all i am really hearing is 'You disgust me becouse i dont agree with/understand your opinions.' Disgust is a very strong word. What do you not understand about my interest in DMT? Do you even know what it is? Didn't think so


Do you know what 'disgusts me'? People who know nothing about a subject but still make sweeping statments. i dont claim to know much hence why i am reading Dr.strassman book. At least i am trying to educate myself in my spare time so i at least feel i might have something to contribute to a debate on the issue. If you have nothing constructive to say can you please not say anything. Thank you kindly

Channel Zero

ScumLord wrote: »

Really? Bill Hicks, Bob Dylan, Bob Marley, W.B Yeats, The founding fathers of the US and an endless list of scientists, writers, musicians and artists disgust you. How do you live around all the disgusting art that drugs developed? Your life must be awful with all that hate.

My life is great actually. You're mixing up disgust for something with an ability to have a non-awful, relatively hate-free life. Bit of a strawman there.

It was quite predictable that you'd compile some sort of list of people whose drug use has apparently improved humanity. Those few you mentioned don't actually disgust me. And by the way, the art was developed by the artists. Not the drugs.

The people i'm referring to are the one's who come on here again and again bleating on about how wonderful drugs are. Glamourising them basically.
The one's who downplay the dangers. The one's who explain in great detail how to mix, prepare and consume etc said drugs. That disgusts me.

crazy cabbage wrote: »

All them teenagers drinking must cause you great disgust then....

No. "All them teenagers drinking" don't disgust me.

And i dont think any drug is cool. I treat them with respect and take an educated approach to them.

You treat them respect. Thats good. You also seem to take a respectful approach to educating people about how great they are. Good for you!

There is some 'drugs' that i find fascinating such as DMT. Currently reading a book written by a doctor richered strassman on the subject of DMT. Yes i do think that DMT is a 'great' 'drug' if used properly and responsably.

So you don't think DMT is cool, but you think it's "a great drug". I see...

If you have nothing constructive to say can you please not say anything. Thank you kindly

I thought what i said was quite constructive actually. Just expressing my opinion, which you obviously didn't like judging by your snarky reply. That's fair enough, but i'm entitled to post on this thread same as anyone. Congrats on the 1.1

mikom

Channel Zero wrote: »

The people i'm referring to are the one's who come on here again and again bleating on about how wonderful drugs are. Glamourising them basically.
The one's who downplay the dangers. The one's who explain in great detail how to mix, prepare and consume etc said drugs. That disgusts me.

I think you'll find that is against the boards charter.
Were you dreaming these posts?
Any examples?

ScumLord

Channel Zero wrote: »

It was quite predictable that you'd compile some sort of list of people whose drug use has apparently improved humanity. Those few you mentioned don't actually disgust me. And by the way, the art was developed by the artists. Not the drugs.

Many, many artists and even scientists have taken huge inspiration from drugs. To say otherwise is like sticking your head in the sand but of course when given examples you'll ignore those instead falling back on your comic book version of a drug user that really only exists inside the heads of daily mail readers.

The people i'm referring to are the one's who come on here again and again bleating on about how wonderful drugs are. Glamourising them basically.
The one's who downplay the dangers. The one's who explain in great detail how to mix, prepare and consume etc said drugs. That disgusts me.

People have a right to share their experiences of drugs, real, first hand experiences, rather than blind disgust. We can't help it if those experiences have been awesome. If the truth disgusts you just go elsewhere, all you've said so far is your disgusted by other people who don't follow your moral code. You give no reason or explanation, it's simple bigotry.

Channel Zero

You're the one that seems to be dreaming.

Channel Zero

ScumLord wrote: »

Many, many artists and even scientists have taken huge inspiration from drugs. To say otherwise is like sticking your head in the sand but of course when given examples you'll ignore those instead falling back on your comic book version of a drug user that really only exists inside the heads of daily mail readers.

Yawn. Another strawman. I don't have "a comic book version of a drug user"

If the truth disgusts you just go elsewhere

The truth being that drugs are awesome i presume?, or in your case that cannabis is wonderful and has spawned an "endless list" of scientific discoveries and masterpieces of art...

, all you've said so far is your disgusted by other people who don't follow your moral code. You give no reason or explanation, it's simple bigotry.

That's ridiculous. It's not bigotry to express disgust for people who constantly glamourise and advocate recreational drug use on an open internet forum like this. It's simply stating an opinion.

ScumLord

Channel Zero wrote: »

The truth being that drugs are awesome i presume?, or in your case that cannabis is wonderful and has spawned an "endless list" of scientific discoveries and masterpieces of art...

I said people have told of their awesome experiences with drugs. That's actual experiences not assumptions based on second hand opinion.

That's ridiculous. It's not bigotry to express disgust for people who constantly glamourise and advocate recreational drug use on an open internet forum like this. It's simply stating an opinion.

It is bigotry, you've just started throwing around insults against anyone that likes using drugs backed up by nothing. There's nothing wrong with drug use, drugs can give unparalleled positive life changing experiences.

Your post is another example of someone jumping in at the end of a thread ignoring the entire discussion and regurgitating defamatory judgements against people you know nothing about.

gaffer91

@ Channel Zero. Why do you dislike drugs so much? Even ignoring the fact that "drugs" encompass an extremely broad spectrum are you aware that most illegal drugs are not particularly harmful or addictive?

Muir

I think teenagers should be educated about drugs more than they are. I think now it's very "drugs are bad, don't do them" rather than properly educating them.
A very close family member of mine died age 11 from aerosol abuse. She was with a teenager who didn't have a clue what to do when she collapsed. As a result my mam put me in St. John Ambulance where I did a course about drugs and their effects. It's very possible that teenagers can end up in a situation where a friend has a bad reaction to drugs, but it's unlikely they'll know how to deal with the situation because they don't want to get into trouble or whatever.

I think if you just tell teens they can't or shouldn't do something, they want to do it more. For example, my friends who had parents who allowed them to try alcohol in their teens had a far more responsible attitude towards it than friends whose parents said 'you're never allowed to drink' etc. At least if you teach them about it properly they can make a more educated decision when they are exposed.

Channel Zero

gaffer91 wrote: »

@ Channel Zero. Why do you dislike drugs so much? Even ignoring the fact that "drugs" encompass an extremely broad spectrum are you aware that most illegal drugs are not particularly harmful or addictive?

Thankyou. This is a perfect example of the absolute bollocks you read on threads like these.

It usually goes something like this when you read between the lines:

Weed is great! It's really, essentially, virtually, actually ,more-or-less completely harmless.
There is very little to prove that regular use causes any ill effects whatsoever. It won't make you lazy or unmotivated or turn you into a couch-potato and it definitely is not addictive in any way. In fact it propels you to a new level of consciousness, where scientific breakthroughs and artistic brilliance reside. My proof? Bob Marley.

You should try it, you really should. Here's how i do it: bla bla
Regular use doesn't cause any mental issues or problems whatsoever. No no. The only one's who suffer those are the people who had underlying issues in the first place you see.
So no need to worry about that, because there is definitely no link between constant weed smoking and and any ill-effects whatsoever, mentally or otherwise. Just ask any drug councellor worth their salt and they'll say the same. No link. Completely harmless. You should try it you really should.
I mean, look at me. I'm a successful professional type guy and it hasn't done me any harm. I'm not addicted to it at all. I just like to have it and smoke it the whole time though. And when i run out, i'll tear the couch apart looking for the last blim. But that's not addiction right?

ScumLord wrote: »

I said people have told of their awesome experiences with drugs. That's actual experiences not assumptions based on second hand opinion.

First the strawmen and now this moving of the the goalposts. I have no problem with anyone who wants come on here occasionally to share their experiences with drugs, awesome or otherwise. You're trying to make out that this is what i'm disgusted by. It's not.
It's the constant glamourising of it by a select few that seem to be ubiquitous on these threads. Constantly singing the praises of weed etc, and challenging all-comers to prove that there exists any harmful effects whatsoever.

Am not saying you or anyone has no right to do that. Just expressing my personal distaste for it, which you obviously have the hump about.

It is bigotry, you've just started throwing around insults against anyone that likes using drugs backed up by nothing. There's nothing wrong with drug use, drugs can give unparalleled positive life changing experiences.

I'm throwing insults around? That's rich.

To clarify, again, it's not bigotry to express disgust for those who praise the wonders recreational drugs constantly on this forum and even go to the trouble of explaining how these drugs should be consumed. Time and a place and all that.

Your post is another example of someone jumping in at the end of a thread ignoring the entire discussion and regurgitating defamatory judgements against people you know nothing about.

Regurgitating defamatory judgements?
I'm not regurgitating anything, but you have no problem hurling defamatory judgemental insults back at me, so it's a case of pot kettle black there Scum Lord.

gaffer91

@Channel Zero again- what are you harping on about? I never made claims about there being no down sides. But that drugs such as Cannabis, LSD or MDMA are relatively harmless is indisputable.

Here's a few Links-
One
Two

So, as Scum Lord said, it seems you do have a comic book view of drugs. I would also suggest that if you are opposed to drugs you are likely to seek confirmation bias, and ignore any evidence that conflicts with your (incorrect) preconceived notions and put any information you can find playing up the harms of drugs up on a pedestal.

No one is saying that illegal drugs are completely harmless. Indeed, some are extremely detrimental to certain users health. But it is equally true that many illegal drugs are fairly harmless, are not addictive and are certainly not harmful enough to be illegal. There are also beneficial aspects to many drugs, the most obvious one being that people simply enjoy taking them.

Be more open minded.

ScumLord

Channel Zero wrote: »

Regular use doesn't cause any mental issues or problems whatsoever. No no. The only one's who suffer those are the people who had underlying issues in the first place you see.

Where's your prove to the contrary.

You should try it you really should.

I don't think anyone promoted the use of drugs we're just defending the use of drugs and attacking senseless laws.

First the strawmen and now this moving of the the goalposts.

there was no moving of goalposts, I repeated what I said exactly. You should really take the time to read posts before commenting, especially when you quote them in your own post.

Scumlord wrote:

People have a right to share their experiences of drugs, real, first hand experiences, rather than blind disgust. We can't help it if those experiences have been awesome.

Scumlord wrote:

I said people have told of their awesome experiences with drugs. That's actual experiences not assumptions based on second hand opinion.

See.

It's the constant glamourising of it by a select few that seem to be ubiquitous on these threads. Constantly singing the praises of weed etc, and challenging all-comers to prove that there exists any harmful effects whatsoever.

There's no glamorization, we're simply asking people to justify their negative view of weed. People who smoke weed are being persecuted and referred to as disgusting for no valid reason. There's nothing wrong with singing the praises of weed, it deserves plenty of praise for hundreds of reasons. You have yet to give an example of any harmful effects, you just came on the end of a discussion and started associating the pro drug side with being disgusting.

To clarify, again, it's not bigotry to express disgust for those who praise the wonders recreational drugs constantly on this forum and even go to the trouble of explaining how these drugs should be consumed. Time and a place and all that.

The way you use cannabis can have a big impact on any negative side effects, that has to be explained when people trot arguments about the negative effects associated with smoking cannabis. That argument is redundant because you don't have to smoke weed to get high. It's a valid part of the discussion.

I'm not regurgitating anything, but you have no problem hurling defamatory judgemental insults back at me, so it's a case of pot kettle black there Scum Lord.

If someone calls me disgusting for having a point of view that they don't like I'll throw it back at them.

frozenfrozen

My parents are/were very lax about substances with me. I'm 17, they know I dank and smoked, and my dad knows I smoked weed, and I've talked to my parents about pills too. After experimenting, I've come out the other end where I don't like drinking, I've been there and done that with cigarettes (Quit from smoking several a day for a year) I still hold the same stance that I will not take pills. I've seen first hand people whom I met and played online games with go from being exactly as I was when I knew them to their current drug dealer state, because they went from drinking, to smoking, to smoking weed, to taking extasy, to getting prescription xanex and snorting it, to cocaine, to heroin. I'm staying at smoking weed, hold the rest. I still don't do it regularly, the whole taboo of finding a dealer is offputting and has made a lot of my friends change their mind from chilling out and smoking weed to buying naggins and downing them as quickly as possible to cost effectively have a 'good' time.

Couple of friends recently tried speed, and extasy. They're already talking about trying all sorts of other things. Gateway drugs. I've made the right decision.

I'm not against extasy or acid, but from first hand experiences, they make people just want to get higher.

Weed is like drinking, but no hangovers, no angry drunks.

Also another huge benefit is there's no social pressure to consume more weed than you want, whereas there's the pressure to not be a light weight when drinking, which only causes more problems.

The problem isn't any of the drugs, the problem is that people feel they need these drugs. People working the week just to go sh/tfaced on friday night and spend a days wages, only to spend the next day recovering completely unproductively, feeling terrible, and to go and do it again the following week. Mind-blowing.

People are fools, really.

Channel Zero

gaffer91 wrote: »

So, as Scum Lord said, it seems you do have a comic book view of drugs.

It seems you too have no problem allocating my views to something out of a comic book, but laughably, you have no problem coming out and saying

"most illegal drugs are not particularly harmful or addictive"

Maybe you should take a look at your own faulty views before you deride mine.

Be more open minded.

I'm very open-minded actually so you can have back that canard aswell; that someone who disapproves of glamourising drug use on this forum is somehow closed-minded.

gaffer91

Channel Zero wrote: »

It seems you too have no problem allocating my views to something out of a comic book, but laughably, you have no problem coming out and saying

"most illegal drugs are not particularly harmful or addictive"

Maybe you should take a look at your own faulty views before you deride mine.

You seem to believe drugs, and drug taking is inherently bad, and drugs are always destructive- this is a comic book view.

Do tell me where my views are "faulty" though. Did you read the links? Or have you ever done any other research? Or, as I suspect, does most of your information on drugs come from organisations like Drug Free America, Above the Influence ads and Reefer madness?

Channel Zero wrote: »

I'm very open-minded actually so you can have back that canard aswell; that someone who disapproves of glamourising drug use on this forum is somehow closed-minded.

Where did I "glamourise" drug use? Your attitude on drugs comes across very clearly in your posts- you detest them, even cannabis, with little or no justification. The fact you did not address the links presented also speaks eons. So yes, I would say you are close minded. On this topic at least.

frozenfrozen

Channel Zero wrote: »

It seems you too have no problem allocating my views to something out of a comic book, but laughably, you have no problem coming out and saying

"most illegal drugs are not particularly harmful or addictive"

Maybe you should take a look at your own faulty views before you deride mine.



I'm very open-minded actually so you can have back that canard aswell; that someone who disapproves of glamourising drug use on this forum is somehow closed-minded.

are you open to the idea that you are wrong?