Girl (19) dies on 2 hour ambulance ride to hospital

hondasam

JohnMarston wrote: »

What kind of p*ss poor excuse is 'Ah sure, she wouldnt have survived anyway' ?

It's no excuse but it happened and hopefully lessons will be learned from it. I live in the sticks myself and it's difficult for strangers to navigate the country roads.
This driver was probably never in that area before perhaps the gardai should have got them to the hospital but of course the gardai might not know the area either.
We can blame everyone but if you live far away from hospitals these things are liable to happen.

Mr Simpson

hondasam wrote: »

hardCopy wrote: »

The problem here is that the girl should never have been in an ambulance, she should have been airlifted.

How much will this cost every time it's needed? It's not practical.

Well its happening now. An air ambulance service was introduced recently for this exact purpose. Although it did crash and Im not sure if its been replaced.

hondasam

mmcn90 wrote: »

Well its happening now. An air ambulance service was introduced recently for this exact purpose. Although it did crash and Im not sure if its been replaced.

It did crash and the patient was taken by ambulance to hospital so why was it needed in the first place ?

Johnnio13

Shocking story byt should a helicopter not have been called when a possible life and death RTA takes place?

seamus

hondasam wrote: »

How much will this cost every time it's needed? It's not practical.

I agree in principle with the poster that an air ambulance service would actually be a good investment in this country. Our low population density means that care services need to be concentrated to be most effective, but it also means, like in this case, that access between some areas and the emergency care facilities becomes troublesome.

This is the gap that the air ambulance fills because it allows rapid transit to/from remote locations.

The first public air ambulance service has only really just started in the last couple of months, so hopefully we'll see it being used more extensively - at present it can only operate during daylight hours.

However every case is a matter of making a call as to whether calling in the air ambulance is required; you can't just call it in for every case. And in most cases no proper assessment of casualities can be made without a paramedic on the scene. At that stage the paramedic makes a call - Is it better to load this patient into the ambulance we have here and now, or stand around waiting for the air ambulance to arrive?

So while I agree in principle that an air ambulance service is vital, I don't agree that it was needed before closing any A&Es, or that it could necessarily have made a difference in this case.

humanji

snubbleste, stop trolling

jmayo

OSI wrote: »

Don't Ambulances have GPS?

I would have thought that as well.

Duggy747 wrote: »

It was only a matter of time when a scenario like this happened where an ambulance would be caught out on the back arse of nowhere roads and unable to go to Roscommon.

Even then, Roscommon hospital is only equipped to look after certain cases. Serious cases like this would involve transferring to Galway anyways, though they could have bought her more time.

Taking a direct route from the county to Galway, it's a nightmare getting through Tuam during heavy traffic. Complete bottleneck of a town.

If you are going from Creggs you would not go near Tuam, but probably ahead across through Mountbellew and up that way.

There are other questions here like why were they heading for Portiuncla and then diverted to Galway ?

We cannot have A&E apartments in every county in every small hospital, but this case highlights the need for true proper medevac facilities in each province to make up for that fact.

Has the EAS ( Emergency Aeromedical Service ) system based close by in Athlone being operational again after it's one helicopter had a heavy landing in Tipperary in mid June ?
Just shows what a token gesture one helicopter was.

As always we make a pigs mickey out of everything.
We close the small A&Es before bigger hospitals have the capacity to cope and before there is quick transport available to get people to these centres of excellence.

Edit:
Seamus an air ambulance would have made a huge difference in this case.
It could have cut the transport time to Galway by at least an hour.
The ambulance crew on the scene could have called in an air ambulance and if it was based in Athlone or Galway it would have been on the scene in 15/20 minutes and then to Galway in about the same time.

And I totally disagree with your point that air anbulance services do not need to be in place before closure of local A&Es.

bijapos

Deleted User wrote: »

What kind of injuries? I thought the main thing that "trauma centres" had going for them for quick stabilisation allowing for quick treatment.

Probably NSFW so I'll spoiler tag it.

One had most of the skin removed from his hand and arm to his elbow trying to free hay out of a rotary mower. He suffered a lot of blood loss, was eventually taken to Dublin and from there to Belfast for skin grafts.

The other cut his thigh with a chainsaw, suffered huge blood loss and a heart attack as a result, taken to A&E, stabilised and that night to Dublin for surgery. He would be dead if the A&E was shut as it is today.

Davidth88

mmcn90 wrote: »

Well its happening now. An air ambulance service was introduced recently for this exact purpose. Although it did crash and Im not sure if its been replaced.

It has been replaced/repaired or whatever , it is operational

Could it have been used in this case ?

It's shocking that the ambulance in effect got lost on the way to the hospital to to the casualty ( which is slightly more understandable )

hondasam

seamus wrote: »

I agree in principle with the poster that an air ambulance service would actually be a good investment in this country. Our low population density means that care services need to be concentrated to be most effective, but it also means, like in this case, that access between some areas and the emergency care facilities becomes troublesome.

This is the gap that the air ambulance fills because it allows rapid transit to/from remote locations.

The first public air ambulance service has only really just started in the last couple of months, so hopefully we'll see it being used more extensively - at present it can only operate during daylight hours.

However every case is a matter of making a call as to whether calling in the air ambulance is required; you can't just call it in for every case. And in most cases no proper assessment of casualities can be made without a paramedic on the scene. At that stage the paramedic makes a call - Is it better to load this patient into the ambulance we have here and now, or stand around waiting for the air ambulance to arrive?

So while I agree in principle that an air ambulance service is vital, I don't agree that it was needed before closing any A&Es, or that it could necessarily have made a difference in this case.

I agree it's needed for some cases but like everything here it would be abused.
You can see it now 'we will call the air ambulance just to be on the safe side' it would cost a fortune to run.
This is an isolated case and it's been used to highlight the closure of the hospital.

StephenHendry

thats a tradgedy, it realls shows the serious impact of cuts in A&E, it could well happen again. we saw how long it took them to arrange for that girl to have her operation in mayo, her name escapes me. but it doesnt help that reilly is more interested in his property portfolio than in saving lives

Felexicon

tmc86 wrote: »

So you're saying the country would move forward better if we all shut up and followed the country's leaders like sheep?

I think it is actually your attitude that will stop the country moving forward if we all sit back and agree with how the country is being run.

Also this is a public forum for discussion so if you can't "scream from the rafters" here then we haven't a chance

Not what I said at all. But then I think you know that. If you'll let the red mist settle for a minute and read my post again you will notice that I never said we should just be sheep and follow the leader.
We should of course be complaining about the cuts to health care and other important services. My point is that it needs to be done by people who have an understanding about the inner workings of such things.

Nulty

seamus wrote: »

I'm kind of torn on that one. I know my own GPS when you get out into the back arse of beyonds has a tendency to recommend a route which brings me down narrow country roads with grass growing in the middle, rather than taking me to the nearest N or R road and directing me from there.
This is most likely because the narrow road in question has a speed limit of 80km/h, so the sat nav thinks it's as fast as the 80km/h R-road.

So what do we do if a Sat Nav takes an ambulance down a very inefficient route because of poor mapping data, and someone dies? Most likely the driver would be lambasted for following the sat nav.

My sympathies to the family, but stories reported like this serve no purpose except to get people fired up. Accidents happens, people get injured and mistakes can be made. Sometimes people die. It's tragic. But unless anyone can point to any very specific negligent failure which resulted in this girl's death, then you're really getting worked up about a "**** happens" event.

I would hold most anger at the local who directed an ambulance down a poor route. If you don't know the route, just say you don't know!

Isn't the point everyone is trying to make about the closure of the hospital, not the route the ambulance took?

Aka Ishur

Ok it is very sad and my sympathies go out to the family.

On this topic of gov should hang its head in shame etc etc what is the logic?
Imagine there was never a hospital in roscommon for a second. I imagine people die in the ambulance relatively often. Should we always be no more than 20 mins from a hospital with facilities to handle a serious RTA? An hour? The government obviously believes at least 1 and a half is ok? What do you think?

bijapos

bijapos wrote: »

Probably NSFW so I'll spoiler tag it.

One had most of the skin removed from his hand and arm to his elbow trying to free hay out of a rotary mower. He suffered a lot of blood loss, was eventually taken to Dublin and from there to Belfast for skin grafts.

The other cut his thigh with a chainsaw, suffered huge blood loss and a heart attack as a result, taken to A&E, stabilised and that night to Dublin for surgery. He would be dead if the A&E was shut as it is today.

I'm no expert but I would've taught "blunt trauma" is harder to sort than "straightforward" blood loss. It's one thing stopping an open wound, another to find internal bleeding and have the correct surgical teams hanging around.

Felexicon

bijapos wrote: »

Bullsh1t. The government can make any decision they want on health and what to shut or keep open, the overall budget of the country must be run properly. No puppetry involved here, the decision to shut Roscommon A&E was made 100% by this government, not by Ajai Chopra, Angela Markel or any troika member.

This is of course correct to a certain degree. But in reality the troika tells our government how much they can budget for the health service for a given year. They then need to make a decision on how they will make the cuts. Unfortunately the first thing they will look at is profit.
I'm lucky enough to live just over the border from Dublin so I have about 4 hospitals within a 30 minute drive. If I lived in Roscommon I'm sure I would not have such a level headed approach to this.

Donnielighto

davet82 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ambulance-service-apologises-after-girl-died-on-twohour-trip-3173479.html



I hope these cuts are worth it lads :mad:

the cost of a life in ireland is about €30000

this is an issue of managing resources, life aint priceless and with limited resources you do what is best for the overall population

seamus

Nulty wrote: »

Isn't the point everyone is trying to make about the closure of the hospital, not the route the ambulance took?

If it is, then it's a non-issue.

The patient was bounced by Portiuncla, which means she would also have been bounced by Roscommon A & E. So going there first would have only delayed the ambulance further.

Felexicon

ejmaztec wrote: »

I think they have, or they wouldn't be talking about dismantling the HSE.

The reason they are doing this is to streamline the operation of our health service which in short means more cuts.
The only saving grace is that by dismantling it they will be able to make alot of the deadwood within the health service redundant which will mean less cuts needed for front line services.

ejmaztec

Felexicon wrote: »

This is of course correct to a certain degree. But in reality the troika tells our government how much they can budget for the health service for a given year. They then need to make a decision on how they will make the cuts. Unfortunately the first thing they will look at is profit.
I'm lucky enough to live just over the border from Dublin so I have about 4 hospitals within a 30 minute drive. If I lived in Roscommon I'm sure I would not have such a level headed approach to this.

Was the health service set up to make a profit, or was it set up to break even and manage its budget accordingly?

bijapos

Felexicon wrote: »

This is of course correct to a certain degree. But in reality the troika tells our government how much they can budget for the health service for a given year. They then need to make a decision on how they will make the cuts. Unfortunately the first thing they will look at is profit.
I'm lucky enough to live just over the border from Dublin so I have about 4 hospitals within a 30 minute drive. If I lived in Roscommon I'm sure I would not have such a level headed approach to this.

No they don't. The goverment make recommendations and the troika works out whether this is going to work or not and approves it or not. The troika have absolutely no influence or decision over what hospitals, A&E units etc that we close or keep open.

We intend spending €90,000,000 hosting the EU Presidency next year, the Danes did it for half that, the troika don't seem to mind that we do that.

BTW, you can have a listen to the first 20 seconds of this, it was recorded at a FG rally in Roscommon during the General Election campaign in February 2011. kenny wasn't tricked or forced into saying this, he said it of his own accord. Pure populism, nothing else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaq7aVDvDJ4

Donnielighto

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Which still does not justify nor excuse the tragic death of the child, due to the degradation of our health services.

it does, not everyone can be saved, a tragedy but not one that was economically viable to prepare for. sure a load (15) of locals i know in roscommon town itself wouldnt use that hospital

Felexicon

ejmaztec wrote: »

Was the health service set up to make a profit, or was it set up to break even and manage its budget accordingly?

It was set up to break even, but after years of mis-management it is now the case that it is running at such a loss( over €200 million in the 7 months of this year) it now requires that it turn profit.

bijapos

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm no expert but I would've taught "blunt trauma" is harder to sort than "straightforward" blood loss. It's one thing stopping an open wound, another to find internal bleeding and have the correct surgical teams hanging around.

I'm talking more in connection with keeping an A&E service in Roscommon open, not about this particular case which I believe was lost from the outset no matter where she lived.

As I said in an earlier post shut the hospital but keep A&E open.

christmas2012

Should we always be no more than 20 mins from a hospital with facilities to handle a serious RTA? An hour? The government obviously believes at least 1 and a half is ok? What do you think?

I think our greedy (and some frauds like mary harney and ruari quinn and ivor callely) do not really care,there wont be public uproar on RTE or joe duffy,we can hang our heads in shame too for not causing a scene about it in the public eye,there should be protests organised about this government produced tragedy..

Felexicon

bijapos wrote: »

No they don't. The goverment make recommendations and the troika works out whether this is going to work or not and approves it or not. The troika have absolutely no influence or decision over what hospitals, A&E units etc that we close or keep open.

We intend spending €90,000,000 hosting the EU Presidency next year, the Danes did it for half that, the troika don't seem to mind that we do that.

BTW, you can have a listen to the first 20 seconds of this, it was recorded at a FG rally in Roscommon during the General Election campaign in February 2011. kenny wasn't tricked or forced into saying this, he said it of his own accord. Pure populism, nothing else.

I think we're actually making the same point just wording it differently.
I can't listen to the clip as youtube is blocked in work. I presume it's the one saying the A&E would not be closed.

davet82

seamus wrote: »

If it is, then it's a non-issue.

I believe it to be an issue, I think it highlights the travel time for A&E for the people of roscommon and surrounding areas

Maybe i am being niave being from Dublin but the idea of being an hour and a half + away from an A&E wouldnt sit easy with me, i'm open to correction btw if this is the norm?

ejmaztec

Felexicon wrote: »

The reason they are doing this is to streamline the operation of our health service which in short means more cuts.
The only saving grace is that by dismantling it they will be able to make alot of the deadwood within the health service redundant which will mean less cuts needed for front line services.

The reasons for the government doing this are obvious, and it needed to be done even before the bail-out.

I posted to contradict your argument that the government has no power to make decisions, by pointing out that the government has decided to dismantle the HSE. I didn't ask for the reasons for it happening.

the scrote

hondasam wrote: »

How much will this cost every time it's needed? It's not practical.

Do what they do in the UK,have the air ambulance sponsored by AA or some other companies,they have collection boxes in shops & have benefit nights,this wouldn't cover the whole cost but I don't see why the government cant throw a few quid at it as well.Just a thought here but seeing as the RNLI is crewed by volunteers I wonder if there's helicopter pilots out there willing to take turns to carry a pager at an agreed time when their available & respond to these calls.
That would be a huge saving straight away,

Stiffler2

why blame the goverment though, Ireland has no money and needs to save.
It's awful but I blame Seanie Fitz and their crowd for this.