Girl (19) dies on 2 hour ambulance ride to hospital

Felexicon

coolmoose wrote: »

Just a few things

1. As a profession, we're Paramedics and Advanced Paramedics, not ambulance drivers
2. No GPS on ambulances
3. Using smartphone mapping depends on data connection - not available everywhere, and especially not when you need it
4. GPS even if it was available, is not the end of the problem - proper postcode system would do far more for this country
5. Directions from locals are life-saving the majority of the time - try find your way around an area at night with minimal directions from the caller (may not even be their fault, they may not know where they are!). Sometimes the only way of getting to a call is by directions from locals.
6. Air ambulance service not available outside of daylight hours
7. Housing estates are the worst - impossible to navigate, tiny numbers on doors - instead of large numbers on a pillar near the road. Or like a lot of houses, no numbers - the guessing game begins!

Jesus I don't think anyone would take issue with the people who are working as paramedics etc, it's just the conditions they are forced to work in.

I know I couldn't do the job for a day never mind 20 or 30 years.

aaofa2

Why was this girl not brought to mullingar,surely that's closer than Galway.

BrianBoru00

UDP wrote: »

Are people unable to read what was reported by the newspaper?

An A&E unit like that in Roscommon i.e. Ballinasloe, could not deal with the accident so why the f'uck are people talking about cuts and A&E closures? Plus even the experts said she would not have survived anyway.

Its a tragic loss of life due to a car crash.

What are people still arguing about here?
Should the discussion not be about road safety etc. and what possibly caused the accident so that something could be improved.

The mind boggles

Of course they are saying that, they don't want to accept responsibility.
It's spin. Pure and simple. James Reilly lied about the hospital on a couple of occassions - claiming that people were more likely to die in Roscommon hospital . He neglected to mention that one of the reasons for this is that people who are terminally ill will prefer to be in a hospital closer to loved ones to die as opposed to having people travel to Dublin / Galway on a daily basis.

Another of the claims bandied about and the one I would most object to - That you cannot have a hospital in every town in the country. Quite true - But comparing the population of Roscommon of 5000 approx to the catchment area of Galway of 250 000 is very misleading.

#1 Roscommon Hospital catered for about 40 000 out of the counties population of 60000.
#2 It also catered for people living in large parts of East Galway - another 15 000 + (for example towns like Ballygar / Glinsk / Mountbellew / Glenamaddy) several thousands also in parts of County Longford and even into parts of Mayo and Leitrim.
bringing up the pool of patients to 60 000 approx.
#3 The city of Galway may have a catchment of 250 000 , but then it has 4 hospitals which would bring the average down to not that much different from Roscommon.

Immediately after the closure of Roscommon, there have been increases in the number of people on trolleys at hospitals in Galway, Ballinasloe, Mullingar and Sligo.

christmas2012

there cutting services and not cutting their handsome salaries..guess what i think of this story an absolute disgrace and a tragedy

Victor

davet82 wrote: »

if some politician gave me that excuse after my daughter died after a 2 hour journey when there was a perfectly good functioning hospital 15 minutes away, i'd strangle the bastard on the spot

But Roscommon is a "perfectly good functioning hospital"?

UDP

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Of course they are saying that, they don't want to accept responsibility.
It's spin. Pure and simple. James Reilly lied about the hospital on a couple of occassions - claiming that people were more likely to die in Roscommon hospital . He neglected to mention that one of the reasons for this is that people who are terminally ill will prefer to be in a hospital closer to loved ones to die as opposed to having people travel to Dublin / Galway on a daily basis.

Another of the claims bandied about and the one I would most object to - That you cannot have a hospital in every town in the country. Quite true - But comparing the population of Roscommon of 5000 approx to the catchment area of Galway of 250 000 is very misleading.

#1 Roscommon Hospital catered for about 40 000 out of the counties population of 60000.
#2 It also catered for people living in large parts of East Galway - another 15 000 + (for example towns like Ballygar / Glinsk / Mountbellew / Glenamaddy) several thousands also in parts of County Longford and even into parts of Mayo and Leitrim.
bringing up the pool of patients to 60 000 approx.
#3 The city of Galway may have a catchment of 250 000 , but then it has 4 hospitals which would bring the average down to not that much different from Roscommon.

Immediately after the closure of Roscommon, there have been increases in the number of people on trolleys at hospitals in Galway, Ballinasloe, Mullingar and Sligo.

Why was this ambulance forwarded to Galway from Ballinasloe? Are people suggesting that Roscommon A&E could have handled a case that Ballinasloe A&E couldn't have?

seamus

aaofa2 wrote: »

Why was this girl not brought to mullingar,surely that's closer than Galway.

Nope. Mullingar is about 80km away, UCHG, 70km.

In any case, she was brought to the closest hospital, which was Ballinesloe. But they referred her onto Galway.

LuckyLloyd

Unfortunately, and it is a very hard truth, life is not priceless. Governments all over the world are forced to put a price on it. In a perfect world, anytime someone walked into a hospital for anything they'd get a full body MRI / etc on the house, just incase. But we can't afford neither the money or the time (related when it comes to staffing levels) for that. We will always have to compromise to some extent, and the closure of a regional A & E is part of that compromise.

Now, there is little doubt that the right balance is not being struck. The next time the Public Sector Unions get ready to go on strike over a potential round of pay cuts or layoffs, remember this well.

Faolchu

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Not the excuses you want to hear, but there are, the country is broke due to mismanagement and greed and corruption at the highest level

so broke they can all get iPads?

Kess73

UDP wrote: »

Then why did Portiuncula forward the ambulance to Galway? since she died on that route - not on the route from Roscommon to Ballinasloe. This would suggest that experts decided this woman would need a bigger hospital with specialists to have any chance. Roscommon hospital is irrelevant to this situation.

The same type of experts that later claimed that in the case of blunt traumatic cardiac arrests that there is a 0% of survival at national level and International level?

Sorry for not accepting the word of experts that would release such a misleading blanket statement.

UDP

Kess73 wrote: »

UDP wrote: »

Then why did Portiuncula forward the ambulance to Galway? since she died on that route - not on the route from Roscommon to Ballinasloe. This would suggest that experts decided this woman would need a bigger hospital with specialists to have any chance. Roscommon hospital is irrelevant to this situation.

The same type of experts that later claimed that in the case of blunt traumatic cardiac arrests that there is a 0% of survival at national level and International level?
Sorry for not accepting the word of experts that would release such a misleading blanket statement.

So you don't trust a&e doctors?

Kess73

seamus wrote: »

And if there was an A&E in Buncrana, then the young man killed this morning may have had a better chance of surviving.
That's my point - a single incident is not a good case for or against the closure of an A&E.
Unfortunately while we like to think every life is precious, the cold reality is that we don't have an unlimited supply of resources and we can't just throw money at medical services on the basis that it will save lives.

There is a line somewhere where you get the maximum population coverage for the most reasonable/sustainable/justifiable amount of money you spend.
Whether an A&E in every county would fall on that line, I don't know but I suspect not. Many counties have such low populations that a 24 A&E would simply be a waste.

There is very little that I disagree with in your post ( or in most of your posts in this thread to be honest), but I do think that a minimum of one fully operational A&E in every county would make a massive difference, both in terms of patient care and also in terms of staff being overworked.

The Mid Western Regional hospital in Limerick has a 24 hour A&E. It is a hospital that has regularly fared poorly in terms of hygiene, patients on trollies, staff having to deal with 10 things at once etc. Then when A&Es were closed in Clare and in Tipperary, the overflow was pushed onto the already stretched Limerick hospital. Now the staff who were already overworked imho got to deal with a far greater volume of people, and the waiting times/people on trollies side of things got worse. All that meant, again imho, was that patients get to wait longer for care and take longer to get to care, and those patients get looked at by staff who are under way more pressure than before.

Having at least one fully functioning and fully staffed A&E in each county would improve so many things that are wrong with this picture.

I know that there are financial constraints in this country and that like it or not a life is not priceless in this country, but I think there would be more long term benefits (and savings) to having a set up that included a minimum of one A&E per county over the current set up.

Wishful thinking I know, but it is something that I cannot help but to ponder on.

El Siglo

It's actually sickening reading the article and some of the comments here. The paramedics did as best a job as they could under the conditions they were faced with. However, HSE and government does deserve the criticism. Regardless of the cuts this is pretty piss poor and no amount of excuses regarding cuts, bailouts etc... will ameliorate the grief of that poor dead girls family.

Regardless of whether or not she had a 99% or 0% chance of survival, every person has the right to life.

Kess73

UDP wrote: »

So you don't trust a&e doctors?

Ahh strawmanning.:pac:

donaghs

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Unfortunately, and it is a very hard truth, life is not priceless. Governments all over the world are forced to put a price on it.

What's the point of a hospital in Roscommon if it has no A&E?

Kess73

El Siglo wrote: »

It's actually sickening reading the article and some of the comments here. The paramedics did as best a job as they could under the conditions they were faced with. However, HSE and government does deserve the criticism. Regardless of the cuts this is pretty piss poor and no amount of excuses regarding cuts, bailouts etc... will ameliorate the grief of that poor dead girls family.

Regardless of whether or not she had a 99% or 0% chance of survival, every person has the right to life.

I think that the majority think that the ambulance crew/paramedics did all they could, and would find no fault with them or their actions to be fair.

UDP

Kess73 wrote: »

UDP wrote: »

So you don't trust a&e doctors?

Ahh strawmanning.:pac:

You questioned the judgement of the a&e doctors that made the decision to send the ambulance to galway instead of treating in ballinasloe. So are you saying you don't trust them to make such a decision? If not, then who would you trust?

UDP

El Siglo wrote: »

It's actually sickening reading the article and some of the comments here. The paramedics did as best a job as they could under the conditions they were faced with. However, HSE and government does deserve the criticism. Regardless of the cuts this is pretty piss poor and no amount of excuses regarding cuts, bailouts etc... will ameliorate the grief of that poor dead girls family.
Regardless of whether or not she had a 99% or 0% chance of survival, every person has the right to life.

that makes no sense. If a person has a 0% chance of survival they have a right to life? Don't think anyone took away this womans right to life.

Also cuts etc have nothing to do with this incident unless the cuts caused the car crash?

Am Chile

davet82 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ambulance-service-apologises-after-girl-died-on-twohour-trip-3173479.html



I hope these cuts are worth it lads :mad:

There's one facebook page for one of the roscommon fine gael tds- As many of us as possible should leave messages on his facebook page. telling him exactly what we think of their cuts.

http://www.facebook.com/DenisNaughtenTD

veryangryman

Am Chile wrote: »

There's one facebook page for one of the roscommon fine gael tds- As many of us as possible should leave messages on his facebook page. telling him exactly what we think of their cuts.

http://www.facebook.com/DenisNaughtenTD

In fairness to Naighton he left the party over this.

Father Damo

xzanti wrote: »

Exactly.. a set of parents are mourning their baby girl today who might still be here if some greedy bastards hadn't lined their pockets with our futures.

Sickening..

RIP to the poor girl.

The health system was grossly mismanaged and hospitals were closing at the very height of the boom in all truth. We actually had more hospitals before the Celtic Tiger, as mad as that sounds.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

hondasam wrote: »

I would imaging it was going no where near tuam on route to galway. Tuam is busy with the big dig but an ambulance would have no trouble getting through it.

To get from Roscommon to Galway you don't have to go through Tuam unless you're coming from the very north of the county which would be closer to Sligo anyway. There's a road that runs from Ros through Athleague, Mountbellew, Monivea, Abbeyknockmoy that brings you onto the N17 near Claregalway. The route they went (to Athlone and then Motorway to Galway) is much better but a lot longer mileage wise.

Its a disgrace that such a large area has to go without a primary care unit in a developed country in this day and age.

BUBBLE WRAP

What a shame.

R.I.P condolenses to her family.

christmas2012

its a very stupid and greeedy move to cut vital health services,why dont they show example by cutting their own pay?

mikom

30 seconds in........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APspFqV9CIE

Lies will not be forgotten.
Neither will the the young lady.

lesserspottedchloe

This is a fúcking disgrace.

As of October 2010, the total cost of the electronic voting project reached €54.6 million, including €3 million spent on storing the machines over the previous five years.

I just don't understand how they show up at work everyday -yunno like this is your JOB, you get paid a fortune to run the country, it's your responsibility, it is a MASSIVE REPONSABILITY!

Repeat after me- P.R.I.O.R.I.T.I.E.S. The health and welfare of the Nation is more important than new voting machines. Even if Bertie didn't want us to use ''stupid old pencils" anymore.

My thoughts are with her family and the Paramedics that tried their best to keep her going.

cat_xx

The ambulance service is to blame here too. Last november we needed the assistance of an ambulance for my granny who had fallen while out on a walk. It was strangers who found her and called for an ambulance and were told that ambulance was 15 minutes away. She was walking in a well known park aswel in the Roscommon area. I took the ambulance 1hour and 40 mins to get to her because they couldnt find her.It was a passer by who happened to drive by and tell us there was an ambulance driving around the main park looking for us and it was two people locals to the area who were driving the ambulance. By this stage a person who knew my granny had called up to our house to let us know what was going on. She was on the cold tarmac for an hour and 40 min before the ambulance actually arrived. I hope I never need the assistance of an ambulance again as that experience was truely awful!

UDP

cat_xx wrote: »

The ambulance service is to blame here too. Last november we needed the assistance of an ambulance for my granny who had fallen while out on a walk. It was strangers who found her and called for an ambulance and were told that ambulance was 15 minutes away. She was walking in a well known park aswel in the Roscommon area. I took the ambulance 1hour and 40 mins to get to her because they couldnt find her.It was a passer by who happened to drive by and tell us there was an ambulance driving around the main park looking for us and it was two people locals to the area who were driving the ambulance. By this stage a person who knew my granny had called up to our house to let us know what was going on. She was on the cold tarmac for an hour and 40 min before the ambulance actually arrived. I hope I never need the assistance of an ambulance again as that experience was truely awful!

Ambulances cannot know everywhere thus it is unfair to blame them. The problem really is down to lack of postcodes etc.

mikom

UDP wrote: »

Ambulances cannot know everywhere thus it is unfair to blame them. The problem really is down to lack of postcodes etc.

Park benches to get postcodes........... you heard it here first.

hondasam

cat_xx wrote: »

The ambulance service is to blame here too. Last november we needed the assistance of an ambulance for my granny who had fallen while out on a walk. It was strangers who found her and called for an ambulance and were told that ambulance was 15 minutes away. She was walking in a well known park aswel in the Roscommon area. I took the ambulance 1hour and 40 mins to get to her because they couldnt find her.It was a passer by who happened to drive by and tell us there was an ambulance driving around the main park looking for us and it was two people locals to the area who were driving the ambulance. By this stage a person who knew my granny had called up to our house to let us know what was going on. She was on the cold tarmac for an hour and 40 min before the ambulance actually arrived. I hope I never need the assistance of an ambulance again as that experience was truely awful!

Where did the ambulance come from? was it on another call before it got to your granny?
Roscommon is not that big that they could not find the park and someone would have heard the sirens and directed them to where your granny was.
This was not because they were lost.