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Girl (19) dies on 2 hour ambulance ride to hospital

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    #152
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Before people start sounding off about cuts in health spending and how awful it is about closing hospital services, maybe they should check where the health budget really goes and how come over 60% of the budget that goes on staff salaries hasn't been trimmed a little in place of closing services.

    Oh wait we have Croke Park :rolleyes:

    A report pointed out that Ireland recorded one of the highest increases in health spending per capita among OECD countries between 1997 and 2007, albeit starting from a low baseline.
    Ireland is ranked third highest out of 30 countries in terms of percentage health spending increases during this period.

    Yet did our health service really improve for the patients ?
    How many botched diagnosis, botched operations, kids dying from lack of childcare monitoring, elderly dying from lack of monitoring of nursing homes and systemic failures did we have in those years ?
    Did hospitals and beds close during that time ?
    Hell did the new wards/beds in Mullingar open, even though built, during that time ?

    Maybe the health spending increase had something to do with the now ever so forgetful mehole martin and his creation of the HSE ?
    I thought him lambasting Reilly for his handling of the HSE/Health service is more than ironic.

    Maybe it had something to do with the huge increase in numbers employed by the public health service ?
    Oh and even better the huge increase in numbers was often not in front line services, but in back end paper pushing roles and creation of yet more management levels :rolleyes:

    Face it folks we have some of the highest paid health service employees, providing an often substandard pathetic service. :mad:

    And the cause of a lot of the problems in the health service is not some politicans, but the people who actually work in the health service itself and not just those at the top but also the ones who are cossetted by their unions.

    Everyone is sounding off about the government and how they should cut their salaries.
    Yes there is a great argument for that, but has anyone wondered about cutting the salaries or better still the redundant jobs of some of those in the health service.

    If we want to truly sort our health service a few sacred cows are going to have to be slaughtered as well.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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    #153
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,392 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    xzanti wrote: »
    Exactly.. a set of parents are mourning their baby girl today who might still be here if some greedy bastards hadn't lined their pockets with our futures.

    If you bothered to read the article "the survival rate for blunt traumatic cardiac arrest is approximately zero per cent and Roscommon or any other hospital could not have saved Elaine."

    You are all being utterly disingenuous. The only difference is that she would have died in Roscommon and not Galway.

    She would never have survived anyway!
    davet82 wrote: »
    i'm sure that man will be looking for answer off somebody anyways
    Perhaps the driver(s) of the crashed vehicle(s)?
    J Cheever Loophole wrote: »
    I wonder was the recent accident suffered by the new Air Ambulance a factor here? I'm not sure if that helicopter was replaced.
    If you bothered to read the article, you would have seen that she died last November.
    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    If the 'Golden hour' principle of trauma care had of been applied in this case, it certainly would have greatly increased her chances of survival.
    The Golden Hour is a misnomer. Survivability of a potentially fatal incident starts dropping immediately.
    Felexicon wrote: »
    True, but our goverment no longer has the power to make decisions about our health service. The are now puppets to people who care little about the people of this country once there is a profit being made.
    The troika don't really care about the detail, they only care about the bottom line. The government and it's agencies can make pretty much any decision they want.
    christmas2012 wrote: »
    So let me get this straight: There cutting services to the public who they are supposed to be representing.

    ..And paying themselves handsome salaries and pensions..while cutting everyone elses too..
    Actually, the first decision of the government was to cut ministerial salaries.
    Yakult wrote: »
    How do you work that one out?
    Because people are advocating the dissipation of resources that could save people to treat people that can't be saved. It's the Bertie Ahernism of providing everything to everybody, except those that actually need it.
    hardCopy wrote: »
    The problem here is that the girl should never have been in an ambulance, she should have been airlifted.
    And spend even more money on a dead body?
    Johnnio13 wrote: »
    Shocking story byt should a helicopter not have been called when a possible life and death RTA takes place?
    Would you like to land a helicopter in a remote, unsurveyed area at night where there may be trees or overhead cables?


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    #154
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Victor wrote: »

    Perhaps the driver(s) of the crashed vehicle(s)?

    She was the driver and it was a single veh rta she was alone in the car.


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    #155
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Victor wrote: »
    If you bothered to read the article "the survival rate for blunt traumatic cardiac arrest is approximately zero per cent and Roscommon or any other hospital could not have saved Elaine."

    You are all being utterly disingenuous. The only difference is that she would have died in Roscommon and not Galway.

    She would never have survived anyway!

    The real figure is closer to 2%.
    But shur why try......... She would never have survived anyway!


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    #156
    cocoshovel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭cocoshovel


    I hate how you have ignorant people who expect the ambulance to work miracles on them. To just magically know where jims house down the road is, and to be there within a few minutes after they call for one.

    I have relatives who are paramedics, its a tough job, they get critised constantly by moronic public "SHUR WHY DIDNT YOU DO X INSTEAD"/"WHY ARENT YOU ABLE TO DO THAT" etc. These people really have no idea of what the work involves and the procedures in place and guidelines etc.
    Paramedics also get taken to court a lot from what I hear, and you can be guarantee'd that they get assaulted/threatened every weekend from drunken spa's.

    The ambulance couldnt find my own grandmothers house when she died, do I blame them? No not at all. Refer to what the paramedic stated previously in this thread.


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    #157
    cat_xx
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭cat_xx


    hondasam wrote: »
    Where did the ambulance come from? was it on another call before it got to your granny?
    Roscommon is not that big that they could not find the park and someone would have heard the sirens and directed them to where your granny was.
    This was not because they were lost.

    The ambulance came from carrick-on-shannon and was going to lough key forest park. It was told to come in the main entrance. It went to every entrance but. It was two local boyle people driving the ambulance aswel. My mum knew one of the drivers and she made a point of asking my mum "do you know who I am" She knew she was in the wrong. We filed a formal complaint aswel


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    #158
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    Ambulances cannot know everywhere thus it is unfair to blame them. The problem really is down to lack of postcodes etc.
    no the problem is down to the fact the hospital nearest to her was cut, a VITAL service was cut,while their not CUTTING their own handsome pay packets..


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    #159
    Samich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭Samich


    xzanti wrote: »
    Exactly.. a set of parents are mourning their baby girl today who might still be here if some greedy bastards hadn't lined their pockets with our futures.

    Sickening..

    RIP to the poor girl.

    This happened last year didn't it?


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    #160
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    cocoshovel wrote: »
    Im 30 minutes from the nearest A&E. and 35minutes from another one in the opposite direction. Even that makes me uneasy, as I know if one of my family members goes into cardiac arrest/stops breathing. They're dead.

    And being 30 minutes from A&E doesnt mean the ambulance will get to you in that time. The ambulance station is a seperate entity from A&E, and when there is only 2 ambulances for your entire county then you never know where they might be. If they're off busy with something else then you have an even longer wait.

    But surely that a risk you take by deciding to live that far away from a hospital?


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    #161
    coolmoose
    Registered Users Posts: 923 ✭✭✭coolmoose


    cat_xx wrote: »
    It was told to come in the main entrance.

    Chinese whispers are sometimes at play when info is relayed from caller to control to crew! You state yourself it was strangers that called, so you do not know exactly what was said to the controller. Listening to some 999 calls that controllers have to deal with, I don't know how they get any info from callers to pass to crews - being shouted at, language issues, people panicking etc.

    At the end of the day, no ambulance crew in the country will deliberately get lost or go to the wrong address or location. But we're humans, mistakes happen.

    We put ourselves at risk on single call to get to scenes and get to hospitals as quick as possible, it's not for the craic we're doing this.


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    #162
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    But surely that a risk you take by deciding to live that far away from a hospital?

    And remember folks, never go for a drive out in the wilds of the country...........

    #townmousecountrymousebollox


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    #163
    mediwheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭mediwheel


    cat_xx wrote: »
    The ambulance service is to blame here too. Last november we needed the assistance of an ambulance for my granny who had fallen while out on a walk. It was strangers who found her and called for an ambulance and were told that ambulance was 15 minutes away. She was walking in a well known park aswel in the Roscommon area. I took the ambulance 1hour and 40 mins to get to her because they couldnt find her.It was a passer by who happened to drive by and tell us there was an ambulance driving around the main park looking for us and it was two people locals to the area who were driving the ambulance. By this stage a person who knew my granny had called up to our house to let us know what was going on. She was on the cold tarmac for an hour and 40 min before the ambulance actually arrived. I hope I never need the assistance of an ambulance again as that experience was truely awful!
    The people involved in the collision are to blame not the ambulance service. Every road traffic collision is someone's fault.


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    #164
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    they should sue the state for whipping back a vital asset from the community..you have to admit if that was the USA they would really be leaving themselves open for it..


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    #165
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    cat_xx wrote: »
    The ambulance came from carrick-on-shannon and was going to lough key forest park. It was told to come in the main entrance. It went to every entrance but. It was two local boyle people driving the ambulance aswel. My mum knew one of the drivers and she made a point of asking my mum "do you know who I am" She knew she was in the wrong. We filed a formal complaint aswel

    How long should the journey have taken?

    How was she wrong if she was given the wrong directions? they don't just drive around wasting time hoping to find someone.

    Two local people who might not know the area that well.


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    #166
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,219 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    coolmoose wrote: »
    Just a few things

    1. As a profession, we're Paramedics and Advanced Paramedics, not ambulance drivers
    2. No GPS on ambulances
    3. Using smartphone mapping depends on data connection - not available everywhere, and especially not when you need it
    4. GPS even if it was available, is not the end of the problem - proper postcode system would do far more for this country
    5. Directions from locals are life-saving the majority of the time - try find your way around an area at night with minimal directions from the caller (may not even be their fault, they may not know where they are!). Sometimes the only way of getting to a call is by directions from locals.
    6. Air ambulance service not available outside of daylight hours
    7. Housing estates are the worst - impossible to navigate, tiny numbers on doors - instead of large numbers on a pillar near the road. Or like a lot of houses, no numbers - the guessing game begins!

    oh, and had to be said:

    8. An ambulance can be dispatched to anywhere in the country from anywhere else, it's a national service. So I can tell you straight out now that if I'm ever dispatched to a call in Roscommon, I won't know where I'm going either! Even to say that we should know every road, lane and boreen in our respective areas is pushing it a bit IMO!


    Thanks for adding that. I went through 7 pages to see if anyone posted anything similar before I did.

    I was shocked when I was asked by a paramedic what the best phone for maps and GPS was. I assumed they had it in the ambulance already.

    And whatever about the country, finding somewhere in dublin is just as bad. Although at least most of them will be on GPS. I know ambulances have a lot of kit in them, but I genuinely assumed that they'd have GPS. Considering you can pick up a TomTom or Garmin for 150, it just seemed natural that they'd have one.
    cocoshovel wrote: »
    I have relatives who are paramedics, its a tough job, they get critised constantly by moronic public "SHUR WHY DIDNT YOU DO X INSTEAD"/"WHY ARENT YOU ABLE TO DO THAT" etc. These people really have no idea of what the work involves and the procedures in place and guidelines etc.
    Paramedics also get taken to court a lot from what I hear, and you can be guarantee'd that they get assaulted/threatened every weekend from drunken spa's.

    The ambulance couldnt find my own grandmothers house when she died, do I blame them? No not at all. Refer to what the paramedic stated previously in this thread.

    I have family who are paramedics too. And the stories they come out with are horrible. Plus they get paid a crappy crappy amount. Unless they're in a fixed roster, they get crappy shifts (a mixture of days and nights in one week wirth random days off).
    It's a damn hard job and they deserve more credit than they get.


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    #167
    mediwheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭mediwheel


    mikom wrote: »
    Park benches to get postcodes........... you heard it here first.
    No but the park might, or the road/entrance to the park. U gob****e !


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    #168
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    mikom wrote: »
    And remember folks, never go for a drive out in the wilds of the country...........

    #townmousecountrymousebollox

    Well we cannot have a hospital at the end of every road. They are only viable in population centres and obviously Roscommon doesn't have enough people.

    Is it the hospitals fault for not being close to the patient, or the patients fault for not being close to the hospital. Which is more mobile?


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    #169
    cat_xx
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭cat_xx


    hondasam wrote: »
    How long should the journey have taken?

    How was she wrong if she was given the wrong directions? they don't just drive around wasting time hoping to find someone.

    Two local people who might not know the area that well.

    Journey would have taken 10 mins tops! Maybe they were given the wrong directions at first but they were then called 3 times by a person local to the area. Look I don't mean to be rude but it was a traumatic experience for everyone involved and the ambulance drivers failed us in this situation. I have to say though when my granny was transfered to roscommon hospital the care was second to none. Those poor nurses are absolutely ran off their feet trying to do the best they can.


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    #170
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    mediwheel wrote: »
    No but the park might, or the road/entrance to the park. U gob****e !

    I'm a gobshite.
    That's a nice bit of abuse....
    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Well we cannot have a hospital at the end of every road. They are only viable in population centres and obviously Roscommon doesn't have enough people.

    Is it the hospitals fault for not being close to the patient, or the patients fault for not being close to the hospital. Which is more mobile?

    She was in a car.
    What do you want her to do............ lay a trail of breadcrumbs from the nearest hospital.

    Where do you stand on air traffic accidents?


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    #171
    mediwheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭mediwheel


    cat_xx wrote: »
    Journey would have taken 10 mins tops! Maybe they were given the wrong directions at first but they were then called 3 times by a person local to the area. Look I don't mean to be rude but it was a traumatic experience for everyone involved and the ambulance drivers failed us in this situation. I have to say though when my granny was transfered to roscommon hospital the care was second to none. Those poor nurses are absolutely ran off their feet trying to do the best they can.

    Local people usually give the worst and least helpfull directions of all, they mean well but they usually use landmarks that have no relevance to someone outside the area.


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    #172
    Welease
    Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    PogMoThoin wrote: »
    Luke Ming said this would happen, sad that it takes a death to highlight it. The Government need to hang their heads in shame.

    I wonder if he will also remember and hang his head in shame regarding his crusade to get people to refuse to pay taxes that fund these type of services.. (or that he hadn't got the balls to request his mate Wallace to resign after he didn't pay his VAT (but managed to up his wages at the same time))..

    Probably not...


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    #173
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    mikom wrote: »
    I'm a gobshite.
    That's a nice bit of abuse....



    She was in a car.
    What do you want her to do............ lay a trail of breadcrumbs from the nearest hospital.

    Where do you stand on air traffic accidents?

    I wouldn't complain if it took a long time for a rescue operation for an air accident to reach a remote area. Again its a still a risk taken (even if its not fully considered) when one strays from a populated area.


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    #174
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    cat_xx wrote: »
    hondasam wrote: »
    How long should the journey have taken?
    How was she wrong if she was given the wrong directions? they don't just drive around wasting time hoping to find someone.
    Two local people who might not know the area that well.
    Journey would have taken 10 mins tops! Maybe they were given the wrong directions at first but they were then called 3 times by a person local to the area. Look I don't mean to be rude but it was a traumatic experience for everyone involved and the ambulance drivers failed us in this situation. I have to say though when my granny was transfered to roscommon hospital the care was second to none. Those poor nurses are absolutely ran off their feet trying to do the best they can.
    They were called directly? Our the service centre was called?

    You must expect ambulance drivers to be magical and know everywhere. Maybe the directions given were bad or contained landmarks that were no longer there or changed.

    Just because it was traumatic for you doesn't mean you can unduely criticise the paramedics. I'm sure it was fun for them dealing with ye. Maybe work a day in their shoes to see how easy it is to find people without postcodes etc.


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    #175
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    I wouldn't complain if it took a long time for a rescue operation for an air accident to reach a remote area. Again its a still a risk taken (even if its not fully considered) when one strays from a populated area.

    "Stick to the road lads, stay clear of the moors"


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    #176
    cocoshovel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭cocoshovel


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    But surely that a risk you take by deciding to live that far away from a hospital?

    Its not something people really take into consideration when choosing where to live. I know people like to live near services etc, but a 30 minute drive to A&E isnt very far for most and they dont think about the real emergencies where minutes count.
    Im pretty sure a huge percentage of Irish public live more than 20 minutes or more from a hospital. Even in Kilkenny city(town, whatever call it), it took 30 minutes for the ambulance to reach a certain house. Despite the ambulance station being less than 2km away and a hospital in the town so you never know.

    Im just glad I dont live in a county with no hospitals or ambulance station, where you're talking 1-2 hours for an ambulance to get to you alone.


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    #177
    cat_xx
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭cat_xx


    UDP wrote: »
    They were called directly? Our the service centre was called?

    You must expect ambulance drivers to be magical and know everywhere. Maybe the directions given were bad or contained landmarks that were no longer there or changed.

    Just because it was traumatic for you doesn't mean you can unduely criticise the paramedics. I'm sure it was fun for them dealing with ye. Maybe work a day in their shoes to see how easy it is to find people without postcodes etc.

    Ah for god sake. You wern't there you don't know what happened. End of.


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    #178
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    Didn't they mention in the news just there that no matter how close she was to the hospital that the poor girl couldn't be saved due to her injuries, maybe I picked it up wrong.
    If that's the case then it's a bit off to use her case to beat down on the services.

    It's a tough position, we probably can't afford 24/7 AandE in every hospital but in many cases choosing one hospital to be the major one will cause a potential gap on cover.

    However it's a pity that when cutbacks are needed in the health services the first port of call seems to be bed/ward/hospital closures.


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    #179
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    cocoshovel wrote: »

    Im just glad I dont live in a county with no hospitals or ambulance station, where you're talking 1-2 hours for an ambulance to get to you alone.

    If you think about it how many people need an ambulance that often, it would not be something I would consider when buying a house.
    We could say the same for the fire service, my local fire service is volunteers so by the time they get to the fire station and get to me it's at least an hour.


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    #180
    cocoshovel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭cocoshovel


    cat_xx wrote: »
    Journey would have taken 10 mins tops! Maybe they were given the wrong directions at first but they were then called 3 times by a person local to the area. Look I don't mean to be rude but it was a traumatic experience for everyone involved and the ambulance drivers failed us in this situation. I have to say though when my granny was transfered to roscommon hospital the care was second to none. Those poor nurses are absolutely ran off their feet trying to do the best they can.

    Those poor paramedics are run off their feet trying to do the best they can too. Really, you cant expect them to know your house/estate exactly despite them being from "the area". They're not 65 year old taxi drivers who have know every street name in the country and been driving them all their lives.
    I wouldnt even know half the estate names in my area and hardly even know who is who.

    They obviously couldnt find your house, the directions werent good enough, and there is just not much more they can do.
    You make it sound as if they deliberately got lost and couldnt find your house. If it was that bad then you should have gone and flagged them down yourself.

    In the end I think people just want someone or something to blame for lifes failings. Its a poor attitude to have, trust me I know people who blame the ambulance service for similar situations and its a terrible attitude to have.


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    #181
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    Didn't they mention in the news just there that no matter how close she was to the hospital that the poor girl couldn't be saved due to her injuries, maybe I picked it up wrong.
    If that's the case then it's a bit off to use her case to beat down on the services.

    It's a tough position, we probably can't afford 24/7 AandE in every hospital but in many cases choosing one hospital to be the major one will cause a potential gap on cover.

    However it's a pity that when cutbacks are needed in the health services the first port of call seems to be bed/ward/hospital closures.


    while they are taking paid holidays..and cutting back vital services what if what if it was someone that did have a chance ,what then??


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