Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

opr

It seems Allen hasn't been included due to international duty during the week.

Jimmy Rice ‏@JimmyRiceWriter Despite the fact he is not playing, Joe Allen is in the dressing room getting to know his new teammates #LFC

Agger and Skrtel are the same. They actually play each other as Denmark play Slovakia on Wednesday.

Opr

Melion

Mr Alan wrote: »

He had 10 starts & 2 sub appearances in league.

The bet I'll take is Sterling to have 12 league appearances or more. I highly doubt Maxi finished many of those 10 starts.

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

Where the **** is Agger?!?!

Stop acting like a fooking teenage girl, I'm actually developing a crush on you

Fowler87

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

No Agger

Meh no Skrtel, Borini or Johnson either

budgemook

Looks like Skrtel is being sold so ;-)

Mr Alan

Melion wrote: »

The bet I'll take is Sterling to have 12 league appearances or more. I highly doubt Maxi finished many of those 10 starts.

That's not quite him having the same role as Maxi in the squad though, which is what I took exception to From a quick glance maxi appears to have finished 6 of the 10 starts & was never subbed before the 70th minute.

If Sterling makes 12 appearances, the majority 10 min cameos, that's a hugely different contribution to what Maxi made.

Leiva

budgemook wrote: »

Looks like Skrtel is being sold so ;-)

Agger in the crowd at the City game .

Borini flew back to Roma for some reason .

Johnson is at QPR's ground .

Feck it everyone else is at it - why not !

mike65

Looks like Borini is on his way so.

Gbear

tap28 wrote: »

While they talk the talk about the history of our club etc their sole long term (and maybe not so long term) focus is that Liverpool FC will generate profit for its investors.

I don't think that's necessary.

If they get the club to a point where it's value is higher than what they paid for it, as long as it's self-sufficient, it's a valuable asset. They don't need to be bleeding money out of the club for it to be good business for them.

Ape X

mike65 wrote: »

Looks like Borini is on his way so.

He didn't fit the system.

Turtyturd

Leiva wrote: »

Agger in the crowd at the City game .

Fernando's guest I believe.

Anyone

mike65 wrote: »

Looks like Borini is on his way so.

Loaned to Roma I think.

grohlisagod

Was hoping Carroll would start.

mike65

Anyone wrote: »

Loaned to Roma I think.

I take it LFC are paying all his wages?

opr

The Allen transfer obviously wasn't amicable. Rodgers just interview on ESPN and said we needed special permission from Swansea to allow Joe to play today as his paper work wasn't complete but they turned us down. Huw and Brendan not such good mates anymore.

Opr

Melion

Still want the bet Al?

opti76

atta boy raheem

MyBrokenKnees

What a goal

Mr Alan

Melion wrote: »

Still want the bet Al?

Are you actually joking?!

Melion

Mr Alan wrote: »

Are you actually joking?!

Yes, Banter.
But I assume yourself able Lloyd will find something negative to say about the goal

SM01

Simon Kuper on Liverpool:

http://miostadium.com/opinions/simon-kuper/liverpool-and-rodgers-only-way

“Stats have taken over the game,” grumbled Liverpool’s winger Stewart Downing one day during Euro 2012. Someone had just confronted him with a particularly damning one: last league season, Downing had zero assists and zero goals. Those scarcely credible figures seemed to sum up Liverpool’s sorry season (they finished eighth behind Everton), and a sorry transfer policy that ended up costing their director of football Damien Comolli his job.
But, Downing retorted: “The assist thing? I’ve constantly set up chances. I’ve just been unlucky that we’ve not finished the chances.” And another stat, produced by the data provider Opta, suggests he is right: Downing set up 55 shots by teammates in last year’s Premier League. Not one went in. It’s a stat that casts Liverpool’s 2011-2012 season in a different light, and suggests more hope for this one. In fact, of all the clubs in the Premier League, Liverpool offer the most likely “recovery story” of the coming season. They won’t win the title, but they ought to redeem themselves.
The best predictor of where a club will finish in the league is its wage bill. Generally speaking in football, the club with the highest salaries finishes top, and the club with the lowest comes bottom, as my coauthor on Soccernomics, the economics professor Stefan Szymanski, has shown. That’s because players are unsentimental creatures – “professionals”, as they call themselves - who will go where the wages are highest. In any one year, the correlation between salaries and league position is about 70 per cent. If you take a run of ten seasons, the correlation rises to over 90 per cent. That means to predict the next season’s league table, the best thing we can do is ignore the chatter and look at wage bills. Here is the last official accounting data we have, courtesy of Stefan, from the end of the 2010/2011 season:

Club Total wage bill in millions of pounds
1. Chelsea £191
2. Manchester City £174
3. Manchester United £153
4. Liverpool £135
5. Arsenal £124
6. Aston Villa £95
7. Spurs £91
8. Sunderland £61
9. Everton £58
10. Fulham £58
11. Bolton £56
12. West Ham* £56
13. Newcastle £54
14. Blackburn £50
15. Stoke £47
16. WBA £44
17. Birmingham* £42
18. Wigan £40
19. Wolves £38
20. Blackpool* £25

Admittedly things have changed slightly since these figures were drawn up. Last season Manchester City’s wage bill probably overtook Chelsea’s to become the highest in England. Judging by players bought and sold, Liverpool’s wage spending probably rose in 2011/2012, while Aston Villa’s and Spurs’ probably fell relative to other clubs.
Taking all that into account, and looking at this wage table, a few things become immediately obvious. Firstly, Alex Ferguson remains a brilliant overachiever, first winning the league in 2010/2011 despite spending much less than Chelsea and Manchester City, and then losing the title by only one goal last season. Secondly, Arsene Wenger too remains the overperformer he has been for almost all the last 15 seasons. Despite seven years without a trophy, Arsenal fans ought to stop complaining about him. Given Arsenal’s wage spending, he simply cannot challenge for the title. That will remain true this season. As before, if Arsenal get into the Champions League the Frenchman will have excelled himself.
But in the top half of the wage table, one team stands out as an embarrassment. In 2010/2011, Liverpool finished sixth despite having the fourth-highest wage bill. Stefan reckons that made them the worst underperformer in the league that season after West Ham. Last year, in finishing eighth with their lowest points tally in the top flight since 1953/1954, they did even worse. On the face of this underperformance is remarkable, because in autumn 2010 they were taken over by one of the savviest owners in sports, the American John Henry. In baseball his statistical “Moneyball” methods helped his Boston Red Sox break an 86-year-old “curse” and win two world series in quick succession. Henry came to England intending to do a “Moneyball of soccer”: get Liverpool to use statistics to perform better than their wage bill suggested. Instead Liverpool have done the opposite: they have performed much worse than their wage bill. It’s astonishing that they managed to finish below Everton despite spending more than twice as much in wages (and of course it’s a tribute to Everton’s manager David Moyes, a longstanding overachiever). What have Liverpool been doing wrong, and how can they turn it around?
When Henry took over Liverpool, he appointed Comolli as director of football. The Frenchman is a friend and follower of Billy Beane, father of “Moneyball” thinking in baseball. Comolli duly studied the match data provided by companies like Opta, and seems to have used it to put together an apparently plausible transfer strategy. The data showed that Downing and young Jordan Henderson, then of Sunderland, were among the Premier League’s leading passers. Andy Carroll, the young Newcastle forward, was the best at converting crosses. So Comolli put them all together.
Unfortunately, Moneyball in soccer is still in its infancy. Comolli had indeed assembled the best possible players for a crossing strategy. The problem is that as we learn more about match data, we are starting to learn that crosses from open play are a poor way to score goals. Much of the best work on match data is done not in football clubs – where the “stats guy” is often a converted video analyst without much of a head for numbers – but by amateurs on the sofa. Many of these amateurs have day-jobs in statistics – working in insurance, doing PhDs and the like. One excellent blogger, who identifies himself merely as “a Liverpool supporting atmospheric scientist who spends far too much time looking at numbers” (find him at http://2plus2equals11.wordpress.com/about/), did an analysis of Liverpool’s play last season. He found that Liverpool hit more crosses than any other team in the Premier League, but that “their conversion from crosses was simply atrocious. They required a staggering 421 open-play crosses to score a single goal in open-play on average last season. This was the worst rate in the whole league.”
It turns out that crossing is not the way to victory. Comolli had bet the company on a bad strategy. A cross from a free-kick makes sense, because the player hitting it has time and space to achieve precision. But to send a guy sprinting down the wing with a defender in his face, and then count on his cross being nodded in, is hopeless.
That’s the first reason to hope: Liverpool this season will pursue a smarter strategy. Brendan Rodgers, the new manager, is a tiki-taka man whose previous club Swansea crossed very rarely. He will compose a passing side, which is why it is essential for him to offload Andy Carroll even if Liverpool don’t get a transfer fee for him. Carroll is such a good header of the ball – witness his stunning goal for England against Sweden in Kiev during Euro 2012 – and so indifferent at everything else that his presence more or less forces his teammates to fire balls at his head. Once he is gone, Henderson and Downing will have a chance to come into their own again.
There are other reasons to expect a rebound. Firstly, Liverpool simply cannot be as freakishly unlucky as they were last year. Despite their misguided strategy, they would have had a lot more points had they not hit post and bar 33 times in the Premier League, the most for any club in a season since Opta began keeping records. Moreover, they failed to convert five of their six penalties.
Rodgers also has a chance to improve on Liverpool’s recruitment record, which has been dismal right from Gerard Houllier through Rafa Benitez to Comolli. (In fact Liverpool have rarely been a well-run club since Graeme Souness became manager in 1991.) As Jamie Carragher laments in his autobiography, after a hilarious romp through Liverpool’s misguided signings from El Hadji Diouf through Djimi Traore: “As I know to my cost at Anfield, having money is no guarantee of success. The skill is spending it on the right players.” Liverpool could afford an even higher wage bill if they didn’t blow so much cash on bad transfers. Newcastle have shown how fast a club can rise once they give up on big-name signings intended to impress their fans for five minutes.
Despite overspending on transfers, Liverpool have had about the fourth highest wage bill in the league in recent seasons. The problem is that they have wasted a large proportion of this pot of money on underperforming older players – who almost invariably cost more than younger ones, and get injured more. This summer Dirk Kuijt, Maxi Rodriguez, Alberto Aquilani and Fabio Aurelio have been shipped out of Anfield. That saves money. However, it does still leave two very well-paid old men on the payroll: 34-year-old Carragher and 32-year-old Steven Gerrard. For sentimental reasons, this duo cannot be sold. But Henry must sometimes secretly wish that they would both just retire. Gerrard’s salary is estimated at over £6 million a season. Clearly he remains an excellent player, but he is no longer omnipresent on the field, and often not present at all: he appeared in just 21 league games in 2010/2011, and 18 last season. His number of shots on target – a key stat for a central midfielder – has been falling since he was 26. “The way I look at it at the moment is my body is in the best shape it’s been in for many years,” Gerrard claimed during Euro 2012. “My groin problems are all behind me and I feel strong.” Sadly, though, few humans manage to reverse the ageing process.
Still, Liverpool have some scope to bring in younger players. The good news is that they have moved from giving one man near-total control over transfers (Comolli made most of the key decisions, even though Kenny Dalglish claimed to have had a joint say) to more of a “wisdom of crowds” model. Many heads tend to be better than one. Indeed, that was precisely Liverpool’s principle in the “boot room” era before Souness made himself dictator. Now, what amounts to a committee led by Rodgers will decide who to buy and sell. Rodgers, only 39 years old, not an iconic ex-player (indeed, not an ex-player at all), and with only a limited power base at Anfield, will not easily be able to set himself up as a new dictator. And Liverpool will continue to use Moneyball-style data to recruit players; they just hope to use it more wisely than Comolli did. Now that fans’ expectations have sunk to a low, and nobody at Anfield thinks Liverpool are going to win the league, the pressure to sign big names has been reduced. All that should mitigate the risk of more Diouf-style blunders in the transfer market. However, Rodgers is still the key decision-maker, and there are disconcerting signs as to his purchasing inclinations.
His first signings have been 21-year-old Italian striker Fabio Borini from Roma and 22-year-old midfielder Joe Allen from Swansea. The early twenties is probably the best age to buy players – amazingly, strikers peak by 24 – but the doubt here is that both Borini and Allen played for Rodgers at Swansea. It’s worrying that given the whole world to choose from, the manager picks his signings chiefly from the tiny pool of players who happen to have worked with him before. As his mentor Jose Mourinho once said, it’s not professional only to sign your own ex-players. It suggests a manager who overvalues loyalty, and who lacks knowledge.
Still, given how badly Liverpool have fared the last couple of seasons, almost the only way is up. They won’t win the league – obviously, bet on Manchester City – but by rights they ought to finish above Arsenal in fourth place. Having said that, of course, Wenger has been overachieving practically all his career. Liverpool have been mostly underachieving for almost as long. But despite appearances to the contrary, that cannot go on forever.

Kerrigooney

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5starpool

Melion wrote: »

Yes, Banter.
But I assume yourself able Lloyd will find something negative to say about the goal

Your moaning about Lloyd/Alan is far more annoying in the thread than anything they moan about imo. Neither of them have ever said anything negative about Sterling afaik.

Jesus Wept

I was following that article (though I read it ages ago) until the broad stroke where it said our transfer policy has been **** for the last 20 years including under Rafa, which is bollox.
Also, Souness was a joke.

Also Traore cost £500,000, wasn't a terrible transfer in any way.

tap28

Gbear wrote: »

I don't think that's necessary.

If they get the club to a point where it's value is higher than what they paid for it, as long as it's self-sufficient, it's a valuable asset. They don't need to be bleeding money out of the club for it to be good business for them.

I didn't mean it in a negative way, I meant anyone thinking differently about the owners is fooling themselves.

The club should be run on a commercial footing and be self-sufficient. IMO a long term a profitable self-sufficient club is preferable to a sugardaddy. If the owners from the former walk away the club is fine, don't think that would apply to the latter.

Melion

5starpool wrote: »

Your moaning about Lloyd/Alan is far more annoying in the thread than anything they moan about imo. Neither of them have ever said anything negative about Sterling afaik.

I never said they did, did I?

5starpool

Melion wrote: »

I never said they did, did I?

Well why would they say anything negative about the goal?

Neither will be getting carried away, as none of us should. He is an exciting prospect, but not at the level where he can be considered anything like the complete package yet. Personally I'd love to see him make 10 or so league appearances, and about 20 in all comps, but who knows how it'll go.

klose

Good game that, everyone did good there even the subs. Coates lookeed a bit shakey for one minute but thats about the worst that happened.


Edit: forgot about adam, wasent great.

opr

Well that's Sterling dead to me, he's a big time charlie now.

Have I mentioned this boy Sinclair? Going to be special.

Opr

machiavellianme

opr wrote: »

Well that's Sterling dead to me, he's a big time charlie now.

Have I mentioned this boy Sinclair? Going to be special.

Opr

???

amiable

machiavellianme wrote: »

???

It's been suggested in the past that opr prefers the youths/under age players than the first team.
After today it seems Sterling may have cemented a place in the first team squad.:)

opr

It was a joke for Sir Gallagher.

Pacheco must be out the door. He wasn't with the reserves over in Bray or the first team today.

Opr

mike65

The kids beat Bray 5-1 Suso, Ecclestone, Ngoo x 3 I think.

klose

opr wrote: »

It was a joke for Sir Gallagher.

Pacheco must be out the door. He wasn't with the reserves over in Bray or the first team today.

Opr

He tweeted earlier that he would have loved to have been involved, was hoping he'd get his chance but its not looking likely. If he's not fancied he should be sold, no point leaving him waste away in the stands.

Sir Gallagher

Jaysis NGoo must have been in the nip by the end of that match. :pac:

Sir Gallagher

Shame to see Pacheco being treated so poorly, i wouldnt mind, he gave a good account of himself in the U.S.

ThunbergsAreGo

wish we had gone in for Cazorla

amiable

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Shame to see Pacheco being treated so poorly, i wouldnt mind, he gave a good account of himself in the U.S.

To be fair if the manager doesn't fancy him then what do people want him to do with him?
He'll probably be allowed to leave for a nominal fee or even released.
IMO he was average over in the US and he's just not good enough to make it at Liverpool.
Good luck to him and if he does go it's a shame it didn't work out how we all had hoped.

Playboy

MyBrokenKnees wrote: »

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Every ten weeks he has another million in his bank account from LFC
And for what i ask,,,,

I'll try get over it, ,,,,,,,,,,,,, But its not easy ,,,,,,,:pac:

Its not a million in his bank account really :rolleyes: It's five hundred thousand you forgot about the 50% tax on footballers wages that makes it a bit easier lol

No way will he be paying 50% tax lol. He will be using a personal services company and be paying 20% corporation tax and all sorts of other mechanism including offshore accounts to pay less. Rich people don't pay tax like the average joe because they can afford good accountants

Turtyturd

amiable wrote: »

IMO he was average over in the US and he's just not good enough to make it at Liverpool.

Different position but if he is gotten rid of and Flannagan is retained I think he can feel hard done by.:pac:

Good result today, Andy's goal should add a few pounds to his fee.

Mr Alan

amiable wrote: »

Good luck to him and if he does go it's a shame it didn't work out how we all had hoped.

It never will if we don't show faith in & patience in our young players you know?!

We're short players who can play his role & we have the likes of Joe Cole there ahead of him-Pacheco is much better than him & only minimal wages. Selling him/releasing him would be silly at this moment in time IMO.

BorneTobyWilde

So where was Agger today,
Can we read anything into his non appearance............

gaelicred

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

So where was Agger today,
Can we read anything into his non appearance............

No unless brendan has already signed a backup Dagger is going nowhere

Luckycharms_74

Richard Buxton ‏@Richard_Buxton_

Rodgers also says he "wasn't aware" of claims in the press that #LFC have rejected a third offer from #MCFC for Daniel Agger

Jesus Wept

How about telling us what he is aware of.

Gbear

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

So where was Agger today,
Can we read anything into his non appearance............

Johnson wasn't involved either. I presume it's to do with their injury records and not wanting to expose them to too much game time. Both look sharp so there was little to be gained in playing them and a lot to lose.

gaelicred

I liked what Laudrup Said that we Swansea would like to buy british players but they are all overpriced:D

Turtyturd

Gbear wrote: »

Johnson wasn't involved either. I presume it's to do with their injury records and not wanting to expose them to too much game time. Both look sharp so there was little to be gained in playing them and a lot to lose.

Someone mentioned a few pages back about Agger going on international duty and wasn't included in the squad for today, although there is one ITK claiming Agger was in the crowd at the city game.

kingshankly

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Shame to see Pacheco being treated so poorly, i wouldnt mind, he gave a good account of himself in the U.S.

Yet another manager looks like he doesn't rate him along with every other manager that had him yet people sitting in armchairs who seen the odd footage of a few fancy flicks in underage and reserve football think he's a class act

monkey9

Haven't been on this thread in ages, but after reading the last few pages, all i can say is you's are all still bleedin' mental!!