Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

MD1990

Suarez had 3 great chances
Header in the first from Johnson cross
open goal when Foster dropped the ball
& another header

Kimbot

I think as part of the midfield trio Gerrard just doesn't have it in him anymore. He might do well on the right of the front 3 and Henderson with more energy could have been used in the middle yesterday.

djPSB

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The same could be said for numerous matches under Benitez and Dalglish and you know this too. Their praises weren't sung in such situations so don't expect anything to change now...

Well I suppose the point I am getting at is, if we sign someone who can put the ball in the net, it will eradicate alot of our problems.

i.e Torres II

Dont be at yourself

Sell Carroll, buy Chicarito? Could it happen?

djPSB

mike65 wrote: »

The one thing Gerrards decline has highlighted is the utter failure to move beyond him as first choice player/game rescuer. His relative decline has been evident for 3 years at least but has the club ever sought to line up a genuine replacement?

#nohashtagsplease

He lined up Sigurdsson but it fell through.

LuckyLloyd

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Sell Carroll, buy Chicarito? Could it happen?

Here's a mad idea - how about just playing Carroll?

Mr Alan

djPSB wrote: »

Well I suppose the point I am getting at is, if we sign someone who can put the ball in the net, it will eradicate alot of our problems.

i.e Torres II

That was true last season.

Mr Alan

djPSB wrote: »

Just a little comparison against the Swansea system from last year.

Lucas v Britton
Britton had a pass completion rate of 93.5% last season and made 1.7 tackles per game.

Lucas had a pass completion of 92.6% and made 2 tackles.

I think Rodgers will be happy enough with him, even though I don't think he was anywhere near his best.

Gerrard v Sigurdsson
Sigurdsson had an 84.5% pass completion for the Swans last season. Gerrard had a 82.1% completion ratio yesterday which isn't good enough. Yesterday was an off day though and I would expect him to improve.

However Gerrard was on the ball alot more making 56 passes, while Sigurdsson only averaged 37.2 passes per game last season.

Borini v Sinclair
Now it's from here up that our problems arise. Borini didn't play to his best yesterday. Our wingers are expected to beat their men and create chances. Sinclair averaged 1.7 dribbles per game last season, Borini according to the stats didn't beat his man once yesterday,

Downing v Dyer
Downing is yet to get a goal or an assist in the league which is not a stat you would expect from a £20m player. According to the stats, he didn't dribble past his man once yesterday, while Dyer averaged 2 per game last season.

Suarez v Graham
This was a catastrophic area for us yesterday, an area in which I think cost us the game. Suarez had 8 shots yesterday, and didn't score. He was very wasteful in front of goal, an area which requires improvement.

Graham averaged 2 shots per game last season but he was clinical, the complete opposite to Suarez.

To be fair Suarez offers things to the game that Graham could only dream off, but putting the ball in the net is vital which is something I am not sure we can rely on Luis to deliver.

Are we trying to turn into last years Swansea side or something? Because I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we finished ahead of them last season?!

murpho999

Looked at highlights again of yesterday and had overnight to think about it.

I think it showed the problems that Rodger's has inherited and that he really has a pretty average squad.

Now suffering from losing of players like Alonso & Mascherano and not properly replaced.
Gerrard is not at the level that he was.

Torres in his prime was untouchable but no replacement has come near that level.

Overspending of last summer on average players means less to spend this year.
Continued lack of Champions League football has decreased spending power as well as attractiveness to top players.

I think Rogers needs to be given time and not judged on yesterday or next few games.

Obtaining results against Man City, Utd & Arsenal would be more a question of raising their game (as they often do against big teams) and no indication of being top 4 as would losing all 3 not be an indication of a relegation side.

We've finished 6th-8th place in the last 3 seasons and that's our level at the moment and I think it's unfair to expect a new manager to have that changed in two months with only a 3 signings. Very very long road ahead.

Dickerty

jonny24ie wrote: »

I think as part of the midfield trio Gerrard just doesn't have it in him anymore. He might do well on the right of the front 3 and Henderson with more energy could have been used in the middle yesterday.

To be fair, I said that for yesterdays team, except I wanted Shelvey that extra bite, but defo Stevie up top instead of Downing. Would have given their big defenders more to think about...

Drag00n79

It's been a fair while since I've posted here but I thought with the new season upon us I'd briefly throw in my tuppence worth...

I never read too much into opening day results and yesterday's was no different. However, what did worry me was the recurrence of a lazy attitude by some of our players when we play against perceived 'lesser' teams. The top teams don't have that temperment in their ranks. Apathy wasn't a trait I saw much of in Swansea players last season either, so I'm moderately hopeful Rodgers can weed it out.

We play against some of the League favourites in the coming weeks and while not expecting victories in each match, overall I see us performing well against them - all players chomping at the bit in those encounters. However, the three PL matches following the United one are against Norwich (A), Stoke (H) and Reading (H). It's those matches which will give us a better indication of where we are, I feel.

djPSB

Mr Alan wrote: »

Are we trying to turn into last years Swansea side or something? Because I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we finished ahead of them last season?!

No we are trying to be a better version.

Same 'system' with better players.

monkey9

mormank wrote: »

Suarez could have easily had a hattrick before we even conceded!

He could have and should have had a hat trick within the first half hour!

djPSB

Some good stuff, but largely wasteful.

Dont be at yourself

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Here's a mad idea - how about just playing Carroll?

I'm one of Carroll's biggest fans, but having him in Brendan Rodger's team is putting a square peg in a round hole. I've no doubt that he has the potential to be a success, but not in the style of football that we're trying to play. We need a highly mobile, energetic striker who can play and receive intricate passes on the floor. Aerial ability, strength and the ability to hold up the ball are not required in the slightest.

For better or worse, the club has bet the farm on the success of Rodgers and his tactical approach. And just like Ibrahimovic and Llorente have been surplus to requirements at Barcelona and Spain, Carroll is not the answer for Liverpool.

Grayditch

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Here's a mad idea - how about just playing Carroll?

I'd like him to start the next couple of games. Carroll's not a super sub, anyway. Throwing him on in the second half, I just can't see that working, really, bar ehhhm, the F.A Cup Final when it did.

DARK-KNIGHT

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Sell Carroll, buy Chicarito? Could it happen?

Chico is ambitious he would want a move to a team challenging, or even playing CL football!!

Either way fergie would never sell Chico to lfc!!

Grayditch

It would take a lot of time and goals for me to warm to Hernandez, I just have an unreasonable hatrid for him. So many times he popped up to win a game for United. As much as a I rate him to a certain extent, I just hate his stupid little face. I know that's irrational, but he'll never be a player here, so it doesn't really matter.

Rekop dog

djPSB wrote: »

Mr Alan wrote: »

Are we trying to turn into last years Swansea side or something? Because I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we finished ahead of them last season?!

No we are trying to be a better version.

Same 'system' with better players.

Rodgers' system doesn't lend itself to creating many chances in a game despite the emphasis on controling a game. Swansea where right at the bottom with Bolton last season on amount of chances created but put away a decent % of the few they did create and were solid enough at the back. Problem is that Pool seem to have the least clutch strikeforce in the premier league.

Melion

Grayditch wrote: »

It would take a lot of time and goals for me to warm to Hernandez, I just have an unreasonable hatrid for him. So many times he popped up to win a game for United. As much as a I rate him to a certain extent, I just hate his stupid little face. I know that's irrational, but he'll never be a player here, so it doesn't really matter.

I'm the total opposite. He's one of the few United players I actually like. He seems like a genuinely nice guy

Turtyturd

Grayditch wrote: »

It would take a lot of time and goals for me to warm to Hernandez, I just have an unreasonable hatrid for him. So many times he popped up to win a game for United. As much as a I rate him to a certain extent, I just hate his stupid little face. I know that's irrational, but he'll never be a player here, so it doesn't really matter.

It's not irrational...to put Kess' theory that you can use Game of Thrones in every situation to the test...it's like Catelyn Stark, every time you see her face you get an undeniable urge to punch her in it.

Anyway result p*ssed me off yesterday...then I realised someone in the FF league is called Downing Syndrome, that made me feel better.

And where's Andy Carroll gone?

Phoenix Park

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Here's a mad idea - how about just playing Carroll?

Change what Rodgers has been advocating a full one game in to the season?

I would imagine Downing or even Gerrard on the right of a front three is NOT what Rodgers has in mind long term, Borini and Suarez are certs to play and Carroll cannot play the role on the right. So the answer isn't to play Carroll, its to buy a better player to fit the role on the right, or buy a better player to play behind Gerrard on the right (with Gerrard more attacking) and hope that Suarez can start finishing his chances more regularly. I have time for Carroll but there really is little point keeping him with Rodgers as manager, cliche as it is he simply "doesn't fit the system".

Does anyone think Suarez could be moved wide right of the three and thus play Borini - Carroll - Suarez up top, with Gerrard, Allen and Lucas behind?

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Okay, I seem to have found a scenario below your squeal points!

Give me a squeal point for you both in hard numbers?

How long is a piece of string?


There is no hard and fast "squeal" point. To be honest the idea of going into a football season with the idea of having people look for preset "squeal" points comes across as very naive and a little bit childish.


I have no idea as to what my tipping point would be with Rodgers or how long it would take me to get there.

Hodgson started to lose me once he started making excuses for losing games, pre season games at that, even before they were played, and he continued that kind of bumbling right up to the end of his term. I think it is fair to say that he lost me early on and I was very biased against him as a result.


Kenny on the other hand I was able to be critical of, but at the same time his standing in the city and at the club had me not having any problem with him getting another season, so my bias came into play again.


Rodgers I have no bias towards at present, one way or the other, and I am taking the early games as they come, but am also very aware of the fact that this could be a very rough season in some respects and maybe I am already girding my loins for such a struggle.

So Lloyd I have no such squeal point to offer you, and to be honest I would not even entertain the idea of one for me at such an early point in the season for the very reasons I have given you in this reply. But seeing as you are interested in such a concept, maybe you can go into a bit of detail as to what your own squeal point is as you must surely have a pretty defined one at this point if you are asking others for their squeal points?


Is 1 point a game over 16 games your tipping point? Or is it something different? If Rodgers gets us to win a cup and ends up with a very poor league record will that absolve him of your league related squeal point?

mav79

The problem with Carroll is his movement is rubbish, the header Suarez had yesterday would have suited Carroll because the ball was just a few inches too high for Suarez but Carroll more than likely would have been wandering around outside the box still.

Melion

Andy Carroll is a far more mobile player than Danny Graham. Play him in the centre with suarez and borini on the sides.

Kess73

mike65 wrote: »

Kess do not fall for this pernicious line of thinking!

It was as pernicious a line of thought as a New York mugger is subtle.

LuckyLloyd

Kess73 wrote: »

So Lloyd I have no such squeal point to offer you, and to be honest I would not even entertain the idea of one for me at such an early point in the season for the very reasons I have given you in this reply. But seeing as you are interested in such a concept, maybe you can go into a bit of detail as to what your own squeal point is as you must surely have a pretty defined one at this point if you are asking others for their squeal points?


Is 1 point a game over 16 games your tipping point? Or is it something different? If Rodgers gets us to win a cup and ends up with a very poor league record will that absolve him of your league related squeal point?

I don't believe to start with Kess, I've made that clear repeatedly. I staunchly defended Kenny through the bitter end, but if Rodger's struggles it won't be my cross to bear. Those professing belief now need to decide how committed they would be in bad scenarios...

Mr Alan

Melion wrote: »

Andy Carroll is a far more mobile player than Danny Graham. Play him in the centre with suarez and borini on the sides.

Seems incredibly obvious to me.

Melion

Mr Alan wrote: »

Seems incredibly obvious to me.

I want that front 3 against City. Carroll has the ability to boss Kompany around that Suarez and Borini don't have.

Kess73

G.K. wrote: »

It's mighty confusing how Suarez struggles to finish at 'Pool. I don't recall him having trouble with Ajax or Uruguay, so it's very odd.

Save for one season at Ajax, his chance/shot to goal ratio has varied between pretty poor and average for the bulk of his career to date. I put up a post last season that had a breakdown of how many shot he had on goal at Ajax and how many goals he got (think I did it season by season) and I did the same for him at Liverpool and at International level.

If I have the time later I will try to find those stats online again and break it down season by season, otherwise I will have to try and find that post.


But the basic gist was that he has always had a highish to high shots/chances to goals ratio.

Dont be at yourself

Melion wrote: »

Andy Carroll is a far more mobile player than Danny Graham. Play him in the centre with suarez and borini on the sides.

Downing is not out on the wing by accident; he's there to provide width and stretch the play, allowing Suarez and Borini more space through the middle. If we play Borini AND Suarez AND Carroll, in front of the regular three-man midfield, all of our play will be through the middle and easier to stifle. I can't see Suarez or Borini staying wide and delivering the kind of ball Carroll thrives on.

Maybe Suarez-Carroll-Downing/Assaidi could work, but then Borini still seems like a better option..

LuckyLloyd

Kess73 wrote: »

Save for one season at Ajax, his chance/shot to goal ratio has varied between pretty poor and average for the bulk of his career to date. I put up a post last season that had a breakdown of how many shot he had on goal at Ajax and how many goals he got (think I did it season by season) and I did the same for him at Liverpool and at International level.

If I have the time later I will try to find those stats online again and break it down season by season, otherwise I will have to try and find that post.


But the basic gist was that he has always had a highish to high shots/chances to goals ratio.

Many of those chances are made primarily by himself though, which makes it hard to be mad with him.

Rekop dog

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Many of those chances are made primarily by himself though, which makes it hard to be mad with him.

But this is very often also at the expense of passing to an opponent when that was the better option. Selfishness can only be justified by a high return of goals and he hasn't been producing enough.

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Many of those chances are made primarily by himself though, which makes it hard to be mad with him.

I'm not mad at him. He is the only top class attacking player we have at present, and he works his arse off trying to do things for the team. Not a chance of me being mad at him.

LuckyLloyd

Rekop dog wrote: »

But this is very often also at the expense of passing to an teammate when that was the better option. Selfishness can only be justified by a high return of goals and he hasn't been producing enough.

Is it? Not sure I agree tbh.

mada999

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Disagree! he kept giving the ball away tbh...

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't believe to start with Kess, I've made that clear repeatedly. I staunchly defended Kenny through the bitter end, but if Rodger's struggles it won't be my cross to bear. Those professing belief now need to decide how committed they would be in bad scenarios...

Would suggest that those asking others for squeal points should be willing put their own tipping points on the table, and to be just as willing to use "hard" numbers when giving it.


The belief line is a cop out in my eyes, because if that is being used to avoid the very same squeal point question that you are asking of others, then it is a case that either you already want the manager to be fired or you don't have your mind made up at all. But it would seem a bit odd to ask people for their tipping point without being prepared to be asked the same thing, so I would lean towards the second point not being an option. Also belief in a person can be attained or lost over time so it is something that be won or lost regardless of how much was there to begin with.

I gave you as honest an answer as I can give as such an early point in the season, but you sound (and have sounded) far more settled in your take on things at this point, so do me the courtesy of giving your squeal point complete with those hard numbers.


Not trying to do a little dance with you here either. I am just genuinely curious as to what your own point of no return with the manager is, assuming you have not already reached the point where you want him fired. If you don't have one, then just say so.

8-10

Rekop dog wrote: »

Problem is that Pool seem to have the least clutch strikeforce in the premier league.

+1. This.

Gerrard was liverpool's clutch player for years and that has gone. Kuyt and Torres were clutch in the important games, not just v top 4 but other tricky ones like Portsmouth away (3-2 I think?)

I don't care if it's Carroll off the bench, Suarez or any starter, Gerrard again, or some new signing...point is there's going to be many many clutch situations this year and someone needs to step up.

LuckyLloyd

Kess73 wrote: »

Would suggest that those asking others for squeal points should be willing put their own tipping points on the table, and to be just as willing to use "hard" numbers when giving it.


The belief line is a cop out in my eyes, because if that is being used to avoid the very same squeal point question that you are asking of others, then it is a case that either you already want the manager to be fired or you don't have your mind made up at all. But it would seem a bit odd to ask people for their tipping point without being prepared to be asked the same thing, so I would lean towards the second point not being an option. Also belief in a person can be attained or lost over time so it is something that be won or lost regardless of how much was there to begin with.

I gave you as honest an answer as I can give as such an early point in the season, but you sound (and have sounded) far more settled in your take on things at this point, so do me the courtesy of giving your squeal point complete with those hard numbers.


Not trying to do a little dance with you here either. I am just genuinely curious as to what your own point of no return with the manager is, assuming you have not already reached the point where you want him fired. If you don't have one, then just say so.

I sound settled because I am - I didn't want him appointed and I'm certain that it is a matter of "when" rather than "if" with regards to his departure in the next 24 months.

I've already explained my position in this regard - he has to achieve results to make me reconsider my outlook.

If we're averaging 1.70 ppg+ through 19 games and have advanced in the Europa League I'd have to start reconsidering.

FlawedGenius

Michael Owen on goals on Sunday basically just said he'd love to go back to Liverpool but hasn't got any offers. How would Liverpool fans feel about him going back after playing for the Mancs?
I don't think there's any doubt he'd be a great signing and just what Liverpool need, on the free aswell so its not like its a big gamble.
I cant understand why there hasn't been more speculation. Only negative I can see with him is that he's very injury prone.He might have lost some pace but as we all know you never lose the nack for scoring goals.Hes' just too good for Stoke.
Thoughts??

Kerrigooney

8-10 wrote: »

+1. This.

Gerrard was liverpool's clutch player for years and that has gone. Kuyt and Torres were clutch in the important games, not just v top 4 but other tricky ones like Portsmouth away (3-2 I think?)

I don't care if it's Carroll off the bench, Suarez or any starter, Gerrard again, or some new signing...point is there's going to be many many clutch situations this year and someone needs to step up.

Excuse my dimness but what does "clutch" mean?

niallo27

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Michael Owen on goals on Sunday basically just said he'd love to go back to Liverpool but hasn't got any offers. How would Liverpool fans feel about him going back after playing for the Mancs?
I don't think there's any doubt he'd be a great signing and just what Liverpool need, on the free aswell so its not like its a big gamble.
I cant understand why there hasn't been more speculation. Only negative I can see with him is that he's very injury prone.He might have lost some pace but as we all know you never lose the nack for scoring goals.Hes' just too good for Stoke.
Thoughts??

There is a reason why he has no offers.

Turtyturd

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Michael Owen on goals on Sunday basically just said he'd love to go back to Liverpool but hasn't got any offers. How would Liverpool fans feel about him going back after playing for the Mancs?
I don't think there's any doubt he'd be a great signing and just what Liverpool need, on the free aswell so its not like its a big gamble.
I cant understand why there hasn't been more speculation. Only negative I can see with him is that he's very injury prone.He might have lost some pace but as we all know you never lose the nack for scoring goals.Hes' just too good for Stoke.
Thoughts??

Definitely what we need........someone to keep Joe Cole company.

Chucky the tree

Melion wrote: »

Andy Carroll is a far more mobile player than Danny Graham. Play him in the centre with suarez and borini on the sides.

No he's not, no idea how you think that.

Melion

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Michael Owen on goals on Sunday basically just said he'd love to go back to Liverpool but hasn't got any offers. How would Liverpool fans feel about him going back after playing for the Mancs?
I don't think there's any doubt he'd be a great signing and just what Liverpool need, on the free aswell so its not like its a big gamble.
I cant understand why there hasn't been more speculation. Only negative I can see with him is that he's very injury prone.He might have lost some pace but as we all know you never lose the nack for scoring goals.Hes' just too good for Stoke.
Thoughts??

He's much happier with his horses now. If he was to sign for us I'd lose faith with football as a whole, not just Liverpool.

Just watched motd, how was the second penalty given. Absolute joke of a decision

djPSB

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Kess73 wrote: »

Save for one season at Ajax, his chance/shot to goal ratio has varied between pretty poor and average for the bulk of his career to date. I put up a post last season that had a breakdown of how many shot he had on goal at Ajax and how many goals he got (think I did it season by season) and I did the same for him at Liverpool and at International level.

If I have the time later I will try to find those stats online again and break it down season by season, otherwise I will have to try and find that post.


But the basic gist was that he has always had a highish to high shots/chances to goals ratio.

Many of those chances are made primarily by himself though, which makes it hard to be mad with him.

The two headers he missed yesterday were created by others, plus the one the keeper dropped where he missed the open goal.

No excuses really.

FlawedGenius

He can still score goals and thats something Liverpool cant do at the moment.
Fowler came back and it was ok??

Kerrigooney

Melion wrote: »

He's much happier with his horses now. If he was to sign for us I'd lose faith with football as a whole, not just Liverpool.

Just watched motd, how was the second penalty given. Absolute joke of a decision

Agree with both points.

Hansen said it was definitely a penalty

When he was playing I don`t think he`d have been too happy if a decision like that was given against him.

He does my head in anyway...every time he opens his mouth I want to punch him.

cwboy

jonny24ie wrote: »

I think as part of the midfield trio Gerrard just doesn't have it in him anymore. He might do well on the right of the front 3 and Henderson with more energy could have been used in the middle yesterday.

Totally agree. Cant see Gerrard playing in the middle. He gets lazy when he knows the other two will do the dirty work for him. As said, wide right of a front three should be his position with Suarez left.

djPSB

Michael Owen can go fcuk a goat.

End of story.