Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

Leiva

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Meh, Posting on emotion,
Sticking knife in, I admit it ,,
Pretending i could not careless
Just pissed off that we lost out(again)

Word !

Paully D

Liverpool have enquired about Adam Johnson. Source is a bloke on the Sunderland forum (has posted pictures of himself with Johnson on holidays, at parties etc they obviously know each other) who broke the news about us (Sunderland) making a bid for him days ago before any of the papers, websites etc had it. They all seem to be carrying the story now so his story checks out. Johnson has also been left out of the City squad today.

Same bloke reckons Sunderland are the first club to have been in serious contact and have had a bid accepted and also said Everton had first refusal after the Rodwell deal but wanted the cash and a loan rather than using him as a makeweight or buying him. Spurs have also contacted his agent but haven't gone as far as making a solid enquiry to the club or bid.

Just passing on what I've heard. The club have been in contact with the forum to tell him to keep tight lipped and he has said that's all he can say on Johnson so there's definitely something in it. I've included some of the posts below (it's a massive thread so hard to find all his posts on it as I'm not registered) if anyone's bothered reading them, last link refers to Liverpool specifically.

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showpost.php?p=13229212&postcount=235

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showpost.php?p=13229182&postcount=225

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showpost.php?p=13233558&postcount=841

Do you lads think you'd spend £10m + on him? You're obviously a far more attractive proposition than us and could offer him a wage much closer to what he's currently on, but at the end of the day if a bid doesn't go in it's great news for us!

Kess73

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Meh, Posting on emotion,
Sticking knife in, I admit it ,,
Pretending i could not careless
Just pissed off that we lost out(again)

Now you are just showing off.

whatawaster

Paully D wrote: »

Do you lads think you'd spend £10m + on him? You're obviously a far more attractive proposition than us and could offer him a wage much closer to what he's currently on, but at the end of the day if a bid doesn't go in it's great news for us!

I'd spend £10m on him, but City would be paying a portion of his wages for the remainder of his contract with them.

£10m and £40,000-45,000 a week is all I'd be willing to offer. City would have to pay the balance on his wages.

Mr Alan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

We've improved our first 11 and subsequently our bench and kept all of our major players. That's the first time in a long time I can say that about a transfer window.

How can you say that so catagorically?

There's no reason to think that currently.

Yesterday was a shambles.

Played some good possession football in the 1st half but it was last seasons problems all over again, we can't finish our chances.

Rodgers still has to fix our main issue from last season - buy a top class goalscorer.

KaiserGunner

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Feck him
He Would rather live in London than play for one of the most successful clubs in world football,
Could not careless about him, Shallow man by all accounts,

Yeah because Arsenal are such a small club :rolleyes: yeah he only joined because its in London.

whatawaster

rarnes1 wrote: »

Yesterday was a shambles.

Played some good possession football in the 1st half but it was last seasons problems all over again, we can't finish our chances.

Rodgers still has to fix our main issue from last season - buy a top class goalscorer.

The whole thing was a shambles? Or just the second half after we lost Agger and gave they got two penalties.

I re-watched the match this morning. The first half was anything but a shambles, it was a very controlled performance.

aramush

Liverpool have next to nothing to spend unless we sell, the signing of Assaidi along with these loan pursuits just confirms this. Adam first out. Carroll to follow if the club get realistic about his evaluation.

BR needs to get beyond his friendship with Joe Cole and realise he simply isn't good enough for those wages.

gaelicred

Any idea how much Johnson is on a week

whatawaster

whatawaster wrote: »

The whole thing was a shambles? Or just the second half after we lost Agger and gave they got two penalties.

I re-watched the match this morning. The first half was anything but a shambles, it was a very controlled performance.

The result was a shambles as was our finishing.

I said we played some good stuff in the first half

Chucky the tree

Mr Alan wrote: »

How can you say that so catagorically?

There's no reason to think that currently.

I think Borini is a better player than Carroll and Allen is better than Adam. I'd be surprised if anyone felt our first 11 wasn't improved upon, although obviously you disagree.

djPSB

You can analyse it until the cows come home, but if Suarez could finish we would have won yesterday.

Mr Alan

Borini has taken Bellamys/Kuyts place in the team in my view. He's playing as a wide forward & he's a long way to go before it can be said that he's an upgrade on what Kuyt has given us over the last 5 years or what we know Bellamy can do. Clutch players the lads were going on about earlier & how we're lacking them? Well that's Kuyt all over & I don't think I've ever seen him fold like we did yesterday. Pathetic viewing.

Adam & Allen, I'd take Allen alright but it should be remembered that up until Lucas's injury, Adam was playing a key part in a team that was doing well & on course to be there or thereabouts for a top 4 finish. And for £15m, Allen would want to be a hell of an improvement.

Joe Cole seems to have taken Maxi's place in the pecking order too which is clearly a huge downgrade.

I think there's a very good argument that we've at best stood still where our rivals have mainly improved & overall we've dis-improved slightly. However, like Rodgers, new signings seem to getting credit for stuff they have yet to prove.

Mr Alan

djPSB wrote: »

You can analyse it until the cows come home, but if Suarez could finish we would have won yesterday.

Bull****.

WBA should've won by 5 or 6 if they could finish.

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think Borini is a better player than Carroll and Allen is better than Adam. I'd be surprised if anyone felt our first 11 wasn't improved upon, although obviously you disagree.

Carroll wasn't always in our first eleven last year, but Bellamy was when fit. Borrini should be compared to Bellamy imo. Allen is in and I guess he'll eat up the game time of Adam / Henderson from last year. Probably an upgrade. Hardly a giant leap forward though.

Overall:

Bellamy
Kuyt
Maxi
Aurelio
Aqualaini*

---

Cole*
Borrini
Assaidi
Allen

It's hard to see it as a huge leap forward imo. Have we gotten worse? No. Have we addressed the issues that existed? No.

Also, some of the argument earlier on in the summer about how Sterling / Suso, etc would fill the void seems to have been voided by the manager's selections and benches in the three competitive games thus far, but we'll see.

stick-dan

You're all probably sick of tweets at this stage. I've been following Anfield Mole and he seems generally reliable, broke the enquiry for adam johnson two days ago when sky sports only did today.Just tweeted the following.

Anfield Mole ‏@AnfieldMole
But on flip side I hear cash will be released for a striker BR has been onto FSG #lfc

Chucky the tree

Mr Alan wrote: »

Borini has taken Kuyts place in the team in my view. He's playing as a wide forward & he's a long way to go before it can be said that he's an upgrade on what Kuyt has given us over the last 5 years. Clutch players the lads were going on about earlier & how we're lacking them? Well that's Kuyt all over & I don't think I've ever seen him fold like we did yesterday. Pathetic viewing.

Adam & Allen, I'd take Allen alright but it should be remembered that up until Lucas's injury, Adam was playing a key part in a team that was doing well & on course to be there or thereabouts for a top 4 finish. And for £15m, Allen would want to be a hell of an improvement.

Joe Cole seems to have taken Maxi's place in the pecking order too which is clearly a huge downgrade.

I think there's a very good argument that we've at best stood still where our rivals have mainly improved & overall we've dis-improved slightly. However, like Rodgers, new signings seem to getting credit for stuff they have yet to prove.

It won't be a long way. Borini will easily be an upgrade on how Kuyt did last season. 45 games and 5 goals, I'll be shocked if Borini doesn't better that record.

Adam was a passenger when Lucas was fit. And for twice the money I think we've got twice the player Adam is or will ever be. Joe Cole over Maxi is a huge downgrade, but everywhere else has been a big upgrade so one step back two steps forward. Still improved our first 11 and match day bench.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Carroll wasn't always in our first eleven last year, but Bellamy was when fit. Borrini should be compared to Bellamy imo. Allen is in and I guess he'll eat up the game time of Adam / Henderson from last year. Probably an upgrade. Hardly a giant leap forward though.

Overall:

Bellamy
Kuyt
Maxi
Aurelio
Aqualaini*

---

Cole*
Borrini
Assaidi
Allen

It's hard to see it as a huge leap forward imo. Have we gotten worse? No. Have we addressed the issues that existed? No.

Also, some of the argument earlier on in the summer about how Sterling / Suso, etc would fill the void seems to have been voided by the manager's selections and benches in the three competitive games thus far, but we'll see.

I never claimed it was huge leap forward though or that Sterling and Suso should be anywhere near the bench.

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Carroll wasn't always in our first eleven last year, but Bellamy was when fit. Borrini should be compared to Bellamy imo. Allen is in and I guess he'll eat up the game time of Adam / Henderson from last year. Probably an upgrade. Hardly a giant leap forward though.

Overall:

Bellamy
Kuyt
Maxi
Aurelio
Aqualaini*

---

Cole*
Borrini
Assaidi
Allen

It's hard to see it as a huge leap forward imo. Have we gotten worse? No. Have we addressed the issues that existed? No.

Also, some of the argument earlier on in the summer about how Sterling / Suso, etc would fill the void seems to have been voided by the manager's selections and benches in the three competitive games thus far, but we'll see.

Carroll had far more involvement last season than Bellamy did, even when Bellamy was fit.

Bellamy had 18 starts in all comps, and involvement in 33 games when starts and sub appearances are totted up.

Carroll had 29 starts for Liverpool and was involved in 47 games in all comps last season.

Carroll was far more of a first team player last season than Bellamy, and when both were fit Carroll got game time more often than Bellamy did.


Bellamy did what he was asked last season, but he was squad cover and I don't think there is much doubt about that.

Mr Alan

Borini is a big upgrade on the option of Bellamy/Kuyt?

How many games have you see Borini play prior to his move to us? Genuinely....

Chucky the tree

Mr Alan wrote: »

Borini is a big upgrade on the option of Bellamy/Kuyt?

How many games have you see Borini play prior to his move to us? Genuinely....

Very few. However going by how poor Kuyt was and looking at how many goals Borini scored last year and his limited playing time so far I'm confident that borini will prove to be a big upgrade on how Kuyt did last season. Do you think he'll score less than 5 goals this season?

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

Bull****.

WBA should've won by 5 or 6 if they could finish.

To be fair Alan, one could argue that WBA should have scored a few goals more and it would be a fair point, but one could just as easily argue that Liverpool, with better finishing could have gotten a few goals in the first half as well.


Does not really matter either way though as WBA ran out comfortable winners with the actual goals that were scored yesterday.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

Borini is a big upgrade on the option of Bellamy/Kuyt?

How many games have you see Borini play prior to his move to us? Genuinely....

He has a long way to go to replace Kuyt at his best. But we are talking about last season here. I could see Borini getting close to the combined goal tally of Kuyt, Maxi and Bellamy

Mr Alan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Very few. However going by how poor Kuyt was and looking at how many goals Borini scored last year and his limited playing time so far I'm confident that borini will prove to be a big upgrade on how Kuyt did last season. Do you think he'll score less than 5 goals this season?

Well his best ever goals tally is 9.

So I think it's possible he'll not match his best ever in his first season with us. I also think its quite possible Kuyt could have scored more than 5 goals this season.

You going on about how it's a huge upgrade after he has 1 PL game for us (one that he was ****e in) is daft to me.

Mr Alan

Kess73 wrote: »

To be fair Alan, one could argue that WBA should have scored a few goals more and it would be a fair point, but one could just as easily argue that Liverpool, with better finishing could have gotten a few goals in the first half as well.


Does not really matter either way though as WBA ran out comfortable winners with the actual goals that were scored yesterday.

My point is that for the ****tards going "if we took our chances we'd have won" that if we took all our good chances & they took all theirs, we'd still have lost the game quite comfortably.

Mr Alan

whatawaster wrote: »

He has a long way to go to replace Kuyt at his best. But we are talking about last season here. I could see Borini getting close to the combined goal tally of Kuyt, Maxi and Bellamy

Kuyt could easily have scored more this season than last. He is a proven top class player. Borini is not.

You think Borini is gonna get 15 plus goals this season?

Chucky the tree

Mr Alan wrote: »

Well his best ever goals tally is 9.

So I think it's possible he'll not match his best ever in his first season with us. I also think its quite possible Kuyt could have scored more than 5 goals this season.

You going on about how it's a huge upgrade after he has 1 PL game for us (one that he was ****e in) is daft to me.

9 goals in 24 games for Borini, one goal every 2.6 games. Dirk Kuyt scored 2 goals last season in the league in 34 games, one goal every 17 games. I'm very confident that borini will score more than 2 league goals.


Good thing I never said he'd be a huge upgrade then.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

whatawaster wrote: »

He has a long way to go to replace Kuyt at his best. But we are talking about last season here. I could see Borini getting close to the combined goal tally of Kuyt, Maxi and Bellamy

Kuyt could easily have scored more this season than last. He is a proven top class player. Borini is not.

You think Borini is gonna get 15 plus goals this season?

Kuyt is way past his best and was earning 90k a week. Borini is on less than half that.

Id say 10 to 15 goals for Borini

Mr Alan

Unless people think that Borini & Cole are gonna get more goals than Kuyt/Bellamy/Maxi this season, I'm not sure how people can claim we've improved our squad or first team.

klose

Ah feck, to add to our drumming yesterday now tipp are getting thrashed. Nigtmare weekend, im going on the beer.....

mike65

Mr Alan

Are you aware of match dynamics? If Liverpool had put two of the first half chances away then the whole nature of the game would have changed. You appear to believe that team morale/player psychology plays no part in a game. If that were true then Stewart Downing wouldn't be half the problem he seems to be. West Brom would have been under pressure not to concede as they sought an equaliser so they would not have got the same number of opportunities to score. I doubt Liverpool would have conceded two penalties either somehow.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

Unless people think that Borini & Cole are gonna get more goals than Kuyt/Bellamy/Maxi this season, I'm not sure how people can claim we've improved our squad or first team.

I think Downing, Assaidi, Cole, Sterling and Borini will score and assist more than those 3 did

Mr Alan

whatawaster wrote: »

He has a long way to go to replace Kuyt at his best. But we are talking about last season here. I could see Borini getting close to the combined goal tally of Kuyt, Maxi and Bellamy

mike65 wrote: »

Mr Alan

Are you aware of match dynamics? If Liverpool had put two of the first half chances away then the whole nature of the game would have changed. You appear to believe that team morale/player psychology plays no part in a game. If that were true then Stewart Downing wouldn't be half the problem he seems to be. West Brom would have been under pressure not to concede as they sought an equaliser so they would not have got the same number of opportunities to score. I doubt Liverpool would have conceded two penalties either somehow.

Mike65,

I am aware of match dynamics. I'm aware we got tonked yesterday. However people have decided to talk about silly hypothetical situations in an effort to write off yesterday's result. I'm simply pointing out that in the world of silly hypotheticals WBA could have had a hatful more goals than they got yesterday as they had equally good chances. We missed 1 good chance & 1 half chance before they took their lead if I remember right. They had a couple of half chances at that point too. People talking about how we should have been out of sight are lying.

Mr Alan

whatawaster wrote: »

I think Downing, Assaidi, Cole, Sterling and Borini will score and assist more than those 3 did

Downing was there last year. Stop cheating.

Assaidi-likely get a couple of goals, I'll be generous & say 4.
Borini-10 would be a decent enough return.
Cole & Sterling I'll be generous & give 1 a piece.

That'd have em with an extra goal.

Hold on I grab the champers!

Chucky the tree

Mr Alan wrote: »

Unless people think that Borini & Cole are gonna get more goals than Kuyt/Bellamy/Maxi this season, I'm not sure how people can claim we've improved our squad or first team.

Does every other signing not count? That's some goal shifting you've done in the last few posts I have so say Al. I'm confident this team will score more goals than last year, therefore it will be an improvement on last years squad if we want to do it your way.

mike65

The good news is that Aguero is not going to playing next week I'd say.

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

Unless people think that Borini & Cole are gonna get more goals than Kuyt/Bellamy/Maxi this season, I'm not sure how people can claim we've improved our squad or first team.

Well the only way to find out the answer is to check at the end of this season. But seeing as Maxi/Bellamy/Dirk got a combined total of 20 goals in all comps, I think there is a good chance that Borini and Assaidi (the guy that everyone seems to be leaving out) will come close to that total, and maybe even beat it, between them in all comps this season.

Would not bother including Cole in anything tbh.



EDIT: Just noticed you mentioned Assaidi in another post as I was typing this post up.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

Mike65,

I am aware of match dynamics. I'm aware we got tonked yesterday. However people have decided to talk about silly hypothetical situations in an effort to write off yesterday's result. I'm simply pointing out that in the world of silly hypotheticals WBA could have had a hatful more goals than they got yesterday as they had equally good chances. We missed 1 good chance & 1 half chance before they took their lead if I remember right. They had a couple of half chances at that point too. People talking about how we should have been out of sight are lying.

I'm pretty sure all of this crap started with people (not you) acting like yesterday was the end of the world, a sure sign of things to come under Rodgers and analysing the last 35 minutes as if they were representative of the whole match.

I've watched the match twice now, and the first half was a good performance. Things went wrong for us, this led to us making too many mistakes and we were well beaten.

We never looked like being out of sight. I think 0-0 would have been fair at half time. 1-0 to us would have been a fair enough reflection also. 0-1 wasn't imo. I think we did what we set out to do in that first half and that was go their and grab control of the match.

Kess73

whippedcream wrote: »

Ah feck, to add to our drumming yesterday now tipp are getting thrashed. Nigtmare weekend, im going on the beer.....

Some good came out of the weekend then

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

Downing was there last year. Stop cheating.

He was?

Assaidi-likely get a couple of goals, I'll be generous & say 4.
Borini-10 would be a decent enough return.
Cole & Sterling I'll be generous & give 1 a piece.

That'd have em with an extra goal.

Hold on I grab the champers!

I dispute those numbers, but in any event, we will have an additional attacking player coming in.

Mr Alan

whatawaster wrote: »

He was?



I dispute those numbers, but in any event, we will have an additional attacking player coming in.

He better be a good one if people are going to continue to catagorically state we've improved from last year.

LuckyLloyd

mike65 wrote: »

Mr Alan

Are you aware of match dynamics? If Liverpool had put two of the first half chances away then the whole nature of the game would have changed. You appear to believe that team morale/player psychology plays no part in a game. If that were true then Stewart Downing wouldn't be half the problem he seems to be. West Brom would have been under pressure not to concede as they sought an equaliser so they would not have got the same number of opportunities to score. I doubt Liverpool would have conceded two penalties either somehow.

I find it utterly hilarious to see you making this sort of argument, you would have been the first to scoff at it when Benitez was manager.

It's a valid point, but amazing that you are willing to wheel it out now.

mike65

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I find it utterly hilarious to see you making this sort of argument, you would have been the first to scoff at it when Benitez was manager.

It's a valid point, but amazing that you are willing to wheel it out now.

You had better explain what an ex manager has to do with my point. its a universal one nothing to do with a given team or whoever might manage a team at a given time.

I await your considered detailed response.

gaelicred

#LFC say they will not pursue any alternative to Nuri Sahin after the midfielder chose to join #AFC on loan.

Liverpool's move to sign the Turkey international on a season loan was opportunistic, the club calculating that the possibility of acquiring an individual of his quality at relatively low cost was too good not to exploit.

Having initially resisted the forced move away from Real Madrid, Sahin only agreed to leave on the basis that he could select the best platform to re-establish his value to the Spanish champions. Arsenal, who offer Champions League football, were the obvious choice; though Sahin has to wait for Alex Song's sale to Barcelona for a place to open up.

LuckyLloyd

mike65 wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I find it utterly hilarious to see you making this sort of argument, you would have been the first to scoff at it when Benitez was manager.

It's a valid point, but amazing that you are willing to wheel it out now.

You had better explain what an ex manager has to do with my point. its a universal one nothing to do with a given team or whoever might manage a team at a given time.

I await your considered detailed response.

I said the point was valid.

The point I'm making is earth shatteringly clear - your posting history contains some interesting inconsistencies.

SlickRic

Al, if that was a game last year, you'd have been talking all about the fact we should've had 2/3 goals before West Brom scored.

we were pretty crap, and the heads dropped after the sending off, which they never should, but just about everything that went wrong yesterday could've gone wrong.

a big couple of weeks now for the team. they can look on it as a daunting mountain, or they can look on it as a huge opportunity to really stamp some authority on the season. i hope to God it's the latter, because the pressure will be on Rodgers lads, like it or not, if we're in the mire after 5 games; as ridiculous as that might sound.

mike65

I'm sorry but I'm not letting you off that easily.

I find it utterly hilarious to see you making this sort of argument, you would have been the first to scoff at it when Benitez was manager.

This needs explanation, I do not see how my point about match dynamics has anything to do with a previous manager or my views on same.

LuckyLloyd

mike65 wrote: »

I'm sorry but I'm not letting you off that easily.

I find it utterly hilarious to see you making this sort of argument, you would have been the first to scoff at it when Benitez was manager.

This needs explanation, I do not see how my point about match dynamics has anything to do with a previous manager or my views on same.

Letting me off easy?

When Benitez was manager you were the one arguing against such valid observations, simples. You understand perfectly the point being made here, don't play dumb.

I'm done with you for today, dismissed.

citytillidie

mormank wrote: »

Does anyone else think that Agger's red card yesterday makes him more likely to stay or is it just me??

Or maybe it was a way out for him not having to play Man City so manager does not have to leave him out if he goes

Mr Alan

SlickRic wrote: »

Al, if that was a game last year, you'd have been talking all about the fact we should've had 2/3 goals before West Brom scored.

Agreed. However, difference between last years many similar occasions & yesterdays;

1) I was mocked for claiming an inability to finish was not the managers fault
2) The people who did the mocking are now seemingly excusing the manager when in reality he is more culpable than Dalglish was because it's a weakness we all knew was there & we've seemingly failed to address this summer
3) We've gave up far more chances yesterday than we were used to doing last year

mike65 wrote: »

This needs explanation, I do not see how my point about match dynamics has anything to do with a previous manager or my views on same.

It's pretty simple Mike. You're wheeling out the "it's not the managers fault we couldn't finish" line for Rodgers when you refused to do similar for Rafa & Dalglish in the past when you were knifing the pair like an excitable goon. It's a real special sort who gives the benefit of the doubt to an unproven novice but refuses to do likewise to two of the clubs greatest ever managers.