Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

LuckyLloyd

gafferino wrote: »

WTF? You have sullied my relationship with this thread with your claptrap.

What do you mean 'wtf'? If you're going to remove a living legend that just won you your first trophy in six years you'd want to be replacing him with a top tier replacement. Particularly when the club concerned paid dearly for the same bull**** two seasons previous.

Mr Alan

SlickRic wrote: »

and keeping Kenny on would've been a risk as well, let's not forget that.

Not as big a risk as Rodgers though. Llyod is right to point out that people who think otherwise are incredibly deluded.

NukaCola

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No. Sacking Kenny Dalglish to replace him with Brendan ****ing Rodgers is an absolute disgrace of the highest order, and will forever sully my relationship with the club.

That it came exactly two years after we sacked Rafael Benitez to replace him with Roy ****ing Lodgson just compounds the hurt.

We deserve no success, try not to forget that.

Let go of the hate....

Mr Alan

I am pie wrote: »

Rogers was interviewed and selected as the best available candidate.

Oh sweet Jesus

Melion

Lloyd, why are you so deadset against Rodgers? Forget your ridiculous man love for Kenny for a minute and give me one reason why BR isn't good enough for the job. If you even dream of saying he hasn't the experience it will show how ridiculous your argument is.

LuckyLloyd

I am pie wrote: »

If you went to a pre-season game and bad mouthed the manager the way you are on this forum, you'd be ran out of town. It's completely inane, moronic and downright ignorant to criticise the new manager about transfers before the window is shut, about how his team will perform before they have kicked a ball. It's even more moronic to launch these blithe criticisms without any hint of context (how much money we have, fact that the club is no longer a big draw without CL football etc).

Rogers was interviewed and selected as the best available candidate. I stand behind him and 100% against the internet spite merchants even more so, knives sharpened and claws ready before we have even played a game. Ridiculous, utterly utterly ridiculous.

For some it's drinking kool aid, for other's is supporting our team, our manager and our players. You stay on the cynical side of the fence, enjoy the gloom.

Simply put, I think your judgement is warped out of all context by your feelings on the previous 2 managers, you're demonstrably not able to be rational.

At a game I would support the team vociferously, as I did for every game Lodgson was in charge of. This isn't a stadium. The players are not playing in here or reading what any of us write. This is the perfect time and place to voice opinions about the direction this club is taking.

Something has been lost the past few years, and I don't think it will ever be found again. The fanbase are culpable in that regard, too willing to buy into simple media rubbish.

And lol at the bolded. Where was the support for the manager last year when the going got rough? As always, the difference in my viewpoint can be summarised simply:

- I don't get optimistic just because it's a new season / new manager and I'm "supposed to";
- I don't get the knives out on winners who have done so much for this club when the going gets rough;

Respect is earned. Dalglish earned it. Benitez earned it. Rodgers will have to earn it too.

NukaCola

I can see where LL is coming from....

I dont know of anyone, if told Kenny was getting the boot and Rodgers would be the new manager, before Kenny was sacked, that would be happy with that decision.

Mr Alan

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

At a game I would support the team vociferously, as I did for every game Lodgson was in charge of. This isn't a stadium. The players are not playing in here or reading what any of us write. This is the perfect time and place to voice opinions about the direction this club is taking.

Something has been lost the past few years, and I don't think it will ever be found again. The fanbase are culpable in that regard, too willing to buy into simple media rubbish.

And lol at the bolded. Where was the support for the manager last year when the going got rough? As always, the difference in my viewpoint can be summarised simply:

- I don't get optimistic just because it's a new season / new manager and I'm "supposed to";
- I don't get the knives out on winners who have done so much for this club when the going gets rough;

Respect is earned. Dalglish earned it. Benitez earned it. Rodgers will have to earn it too.

Great post.

Melion

NukaCola wrote: »

I can see where LL is coming from....

I dont know of anyone, if told Kenny was getting the boot and Rodgers would be the new manager, before Kenny was sacked, that would be happy with that decision.

I was ****ing delighted. Rafa was my first choice but BR was a close second

Kess73

That_Guy wrote: »

Not necessarily. Cabaye left Lille who had just won Ligue 1 with Champions League football to join us. Likewise Ben Arfa though that was initially on loan.

Likewise Tiote.

LuckyLloyd

Melion wrote: »

Lloyd, why are you so deadset against Rodgers? Forget your ridiculous man love for Kenny for a minute and give me one reason why BR isn't good enough for the job. If you even dream of saying he hasn't the experience it will show how ridiculous your argument is.

I'm deadset against Rodgers because he has done nothing that inidicates he is worthy to manage one of the biggest clubs in world football - particularly when a man who has proven his ability in that regard was not even contacted despite his availability.

NukaCola

Melion wrote: »

I was ****ing delighted. Rafa was my first choice but BR was a close second

Good for you.

Melion

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm deadset against Rodgers because he has done nothing that inidicates he is worthy to manage one of the biggest clubs in world football - particularly when a man who has proven his ability in that regard was not even contacted despite his availability.

What did Kenny do before he was given the Liverpool job in 86?
What did Shankly do before being given the Liverpool job?
What did Rafa do to deserve the Valencia job?

You take a fúcking risk on young managers and sometimes it pays off.

gafferino

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What do you mean 'wtf'? If you're going to remove a living legend that just won you your first trophy in six years you'd want to be replacing him with a top tier replacement. Particularly when the club concerned paid dearly for the same bull**** two seasons previous.

I wanted KK kept on - i think he deserved another season. Being a living legend has nothing got to do with it. I've come around to BR and am excited about the new season. Your negativity is just pointless really - opinion stated as fact.

Mr Alan

The funniest thing is that a lot of the same people going on about "support", giving the manager a chance etc will be the first people to turn on him. You couldn't make it up.

Melion

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

At a game I would support the team vociferously, as I did for every game Lodgson was in charge of. This isn't a stadium. The players are not playing in here or reading what any of us write. This is the perfect time and place to voice opinions about the direction this club is taking.

That makes you a hypocrite of the highest order. Absolutely ridiculous attitude

SlickRic

noodler wrote: »

What a weird way of looking at it.

I could easily spin to say Hodgson is more experienced with bigger teams.

at failing at them, yes. that's not what we'd be looking for though.

and this is coming from someone who gave Hodgson time at the start, but he should never have been near the running for it, due to his record at bigger clubs alone.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Not as big a risk as Rodgers though. Llyod is right to point out that people who think otherwise are incredibly deluded.

i think it's far more likely that Kenny would keep us where we were last season - struggling in the league, and capable of the odd big performance.

but i also think it's more likely, that of the two of them, Rodgers is more likely to radically improve us, while also being more likely to make us worse.

it's a higher risk/reward with Rodgers in terms of what he'll do to the team, because we're going to play quite different by all accounts. it could sink or fly. i'm aware of that. i'm just choosing to veer towards slight optimism.

i say all this, while also saying that i think it's fair to say that it would've been a pretty high risk to give Kenny another £100m to spend.

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

Not as big a risk as Rodgers though. Llyod is right to point out that people who think otherwise are incredibly deluded.

Hang on a second. You were having a go at me the other day because I think that Carroll won't come good, and you were arguing about his "potential" and that he might come good in the future, yet Rodgers does not get the same defence from you despite showing about as much potential, more actually, as a manager as Carroll has as a player?


Rodgers was nowhere near my own list of managers that I wanted to see approached once Kenny was sacked, but it seems at odds with your own backing of Carroll's so called potential that you seem to be ready to say that Rodgers is a huge risk or gamble but not think the same about Carroll.

NukaCola

Melion wrote: »

What did Kenny do before he was given the Liverpool job in 86?
What did Shankly do before being given the Liverpool job?
What did Rafa do to deserve the Valencia job?

You take a fúcking risk on young managers and sometimes it pays off.

If you apply that to the selection process for a manager then a lot of ****e managers should have got a shot at the Liverpool job being honest

Melion

NukaCola wrote: »

If you apply that to the selection process for a manager then a lot of ****e managers should have got a shot at the Liverpool job being honest

Hodgson and Kenny second time around were ****e enough for me

cson

Tbh I think you need to give Rogers a chance and time. Barring a disaster you need to give him at least 3 years to put his spin on the squad and tactics. If you haven't moved forward then by all means change it up but this **** of changing the manager every year is bollox. A club like Liverpool shouldn't be having 3 managers in as many years.

NukaCola

Melion wrote: »

Hodgson and Kenny second time around were ****e enough for me

I get your point, but not everyone is a Rafa Benitez or Bill Shankley if you get what i'm saying

Sappy404

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So far we've downgraded our management team and playing staff, so I see no reason to think we can do better than last season.

Would you not see 5 weeks of a transfer window as an opportunity to improve the squad over last season's squad? Do you really not think we can do better than 52 league points and one trophy next season if we bring in the right players and backroom staff in the next few weeks? Rodgers managed 47 points with Swansea. I don't think it's a huge leap to think he can improve on 52 with Liverpool.

Let's see where we are in September before we start talking about squad downgrades, and let's give Rodgers the benefit of the doubt until he's had a chance to prove himself. I'm not expecting miracles, but this is no time for judgement or extremes.

missingtime

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Something has been lost the past few years, and I don't think it will ever be found again.

I know exactly what you mean when you say this and that's why I hope to god that things work out over the next couple of seasons.

Melion

NukaCola wrote: »

I get your point, but not everyone is a Rafa Benitez or Bill Shankley if you get what i'm saying

Absolutely agree. Where would our club be if they hadn't taken the risk on Rafa or Shanks?

Mr Alan

Kess73 wrote: »

Hang on a second. You were having a go at me the other day because I think that Carroll won't come good, and you were arguing about his "potential" and that he might come good in the future, yet Rodgers does not get the same defence from you despite showing about as much potential, more actually, as a manager as Carroll has as a player?


Rodgers was nowhere near my own list of managers that I wanted to see approached once Kenny was sacked, but it seems at odds with your own backing of Carroll's so called potential that you seem to be ready to say that Rodgers is a huge risk or gamble but not think the same about Carroll.

The manager is the single most important person at the club.

I'm happy to let talented young players be it the likes of Sterling, Suso, Flannagan or Kelly learn at the club, poor performances and all. Similar with bigger name young players like Carroll, Henderson or Lucas.

The should not extend to a novice manager learning on the job.

The two roles are totally different & that was a bit of a stupid point Kess.

Melion

Mr Alan wrote: »

The manager is the single most important person at the club.

The should not extend to a novice manager learning on the job.

The two roles are totally different & that was a bit of a stupid point Kess.

Shanks in the 50's? Kenny in 86? Novices given a chance

Mr Alan

Melion wrote: »

Absolutely agree. Where would our club be if they hadn't taken the risk on Rafa or Shanks?

1) We were in the second division when Shankly took over. We were not one of the biggest clubs around like we are now.
2) Rafa was a double la Liga & Uefa Cup winning manager when we took him on. He wasn't when Valencia took him, agreed, however Liverpool is a far bigger job than managing Valencia.

LuckyLloyd

Melion wrote: »

Shanks in the 50's? Kenny in 86? Novices given a chance

Fair enough with Shanks.

But Kenny Dalglish was probably the greatest player in the club's history when he was given the player manager role.

If Gerrard and Carragher were in charge now I'd be a lot more forgiving.

gafferino

Originally Posted by LuckyLloyd
Something has been lost the past few years, and I don't think it will ever be found again.

Look this is complete tripe....i think your just stirring to be honest. I wonder did Utd fans think this once upon a time.
Theres so many examples of ups and downs and dynasties and disasters in sport im not gonna even bother naming them.
Your glass isnt even half empty its smashed on the ground and ground into a fine dust.

Melion

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Fair enough with Shanks.

But Kenny Dalglish was probably the greatest player in the club's history when he was given the player manager role.

If Gerrard and Carragher were in charge now I'd be a lot more forgiving.

You're definitely on a wind up. You'd be more forgiving of the club if we had carra in charge? I don't give a fúck what a player does, it doesn't mean they will be a good manager. What about Fowler? Would you mind him getting the job?

spockety

This thread, dear oh dear.

Mr Alan

Melion wrote: »

Shanks in the 50's? Kenny in 86? Novices given a chance

Frankly, your point about Shankly is embarrassing. For your own sake, I'd stop making it.

Dalglish worked with one of the greatest managers of all time by his side acting as a mentor & for guidance. The club was also already in a position of strength.

Weren't you the guy discounting Dalglish's managerial achievements based on the length of time ago they were? Now you're trying (unsuccessfully) to compare the philosophy of appointing a novice like Rodgers to the appointments of Dalglish & Shanks respectively? Get a grip fella.

rossie1977

not sure why people are taking issue with lloyd because as soon as liverpool go through a bad spell this season people here will be at the usual stuff, ffs thats 2009 when liverpool had their best season ever in the premier league, a liverpool fan who still posts here regularly wanting sunderland to win... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59258885&postcount=13

NabyLadistheman

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If Gerrard and Carragher were in charge now I'd be a lot more forgiving.

Thats hilarious. You'd want to step away from the sentimental bo***cks

Melion

Mr Alan wrote: »

Frankly, your point about Shankly is embarrassing. For your own sake, I'd stop making it.

Dalglish worked with one of the greatest managers of all time by his side acting as a mentor & for guidance. The club was also already in a position of strength.

Weren't you the guy discounting Dalglish's managerial achievements based on the length of time ago they were? Now you're trying (unsuccessfully) to compare the philosophy of appointing a novice like Rodgers to the appointments of Dalglish & Shanks respectively? Get a grip fella.

That's my point. Kenny did NOTHING in the league in his second spell to show he should have got to keep the job. He has no clue how to manage in the league nowadays. Do you think another club would give him a job?

Mr Alan

rossie1977 wrote: »

not sure why people are taking issue with lloyd because as soon as liverpool go through a bad spell this season people here will be at the usual stuff, ffs thats 2009 when liverpool had their best season ever, a liverpool fan who still posts here regularly wanting sunderland to win... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59258885&postcount=13

I was at that game iirc. Team was boo'd off at half time because it was still nil all.

Gbear

In semi-related news, Linda P is preggers.

Congrats JWH and Linda.

budgemook

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Fair enough with Shanks.

But Kenny Dalglish was probably the greatest player in the club's history when he was given the player manager role.

If Gerrard and Carragher were in charge now I'd be a lot more forgiving.

Ah here...

What sort of tripe is that. We have a young manager who has been pretty successful over the last 2 years given resources available. He is trying to apply a style of play that is proving to be the best style in the world (Spain last 3 major tournaments, Barca winning loads) but you'd rather have 2 lads who would give themselves 10 year contracts and have tactics like this: Carragher hoofs it up to Carroll who knocks it down for a Stevie G spectacular from 25 yards out.

Class.

Sure, we're not Barca or Spain but I am quite happy that we will be trying to emulate something similar to their style. Rodgers emulated the style very well at Swansea so there is nothing to say he won't do it fairly well at Liverpool.

LuckyLloyd

rossie1977 wrote: »

not sure why people are taking issue with lloyd because as soon as liverpool go through a bad spell this season people here will be at the usual stuff, ffs thats 2009 when liverpool had their best season ever in the premier league, a liverpool fan who still posts here regularly wanting sunderland to win... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59258885&postcount=13

God, that's horrendous. :mad:

Ignore initiated.

Mr Alan

Melion wrote: »

That's my point. Kenny did NOTHING in the league in his second spell to show he should have got to keep the job. He has no clue how to manage in the league nowadays. Do you think another club would give him a job?

In his first 6 months the team displayed near title challenging form? Easily top 4 form?

In his second 6 months, the team was challenging for the CL places until Lucas got injured.

He did poor in his last few months.

Despite that, he won us our first trophy in 6 years.

And got to another FA Cup Final.

Frankly, you're talking absolute ****e.

Melion

rossie1977 wrote: »

not sure why people are taking issue with lloyd because as soon as liverpool go through a bad spell this season people here will be at the usual stuff, ffs thats 2009 when liverpool had their best season ever in the premier league, a liverpool fan who still posts here regularly wanting sunderland to win... http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59258885&postcount=13

I was at that match, took my father over for his first game. The treatment of Lucas that night made me embarrassed beyond belief.

LuckyLloyd

Yeah Melion, where did it all go wrong?

Melion

Mr Alan wrote: »

In his first 6 months the team displayed near title challenging form? Easily top 4 form?

In his second 6 months, the team was challenging for the CL places until Lucas got injured.

He did poor in his last few months.

Despite that, he won us our first trophy in 6 years.

And got to another FA Cup Final.

Frankly, you're talking absolute ****e.

So would you be of the same opinion as Lloyd? TWO.CUP.FINALS and 17th in the league would be ok?

LuckyLloyd

It's summer 2010 all over again. "Fall into line" is the cry. **** that I say.

Mr Alan

Melion wrote: »

So would you be of the same opinion as Lloyd? TWO.CUP.FINALS and 17th in the league would be ok?

No.

But 2 Cup finals & 8th in first full season back at the club when we were missing our most important player most of the season resulting in a sacking was embarrassing.

DrumSteve

Looks like we won our first trophy of the year.

Mr Alan

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's summer 2010 all over again. "Fall into line" is the cry. **** that I say.

I don't quite share your pessimism but it's eerily similar.

Bloc Party!

I really like them training tops..the white ones are nicer imo..almost nicer than the actual jerseys

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

The manager is the single most important person at the club.

I'm happy to let talented young players be it the likes of Sterling, Suso, Flannagan or Kelly learn at the club, poor performances and all. Similar with bigger name young players like Carroll, Henderson or Lucas.

The should not extend to a novice manager learning on the job.

The two roles are totally different & that was a bit of a stupid point Kess.

The roles are different, yes. But coming out one day and saying that people are droolers and what not for not giving someone a chance, and then the next day being ready to write someone off before they have shown enough to suggest that they may or may not be good enough smacks of either being pretty stupid, being blinkered when it suits or being a wind up merchant, and I am damn sure that you are not the first option.