Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

Francie Barrett

NEDDURC wrote: »

Hodgonson signed Cole at a time when the club was pretty much in a mess.

No he didn't.

Christian Purslow was responsible for the shambles we made out of the Summer 2010 transfer window. When Benitez went, it was he who pushed through the signings of Cole and Jovanovic.

LuckyLloyd

skywalker wrote: »

A few of the lads could use a deep breath & some time out in the fresh air, kicking a ball around.

Theres no 'winning' an arguement on the internet, & at the end of the day the only reason anyone comes here is because they want to see liverpool doing well, no need to take it so serious.

The fortunes of Liverpool Football Club amount to super serious business for me.

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hindsight is 20 : 20. Chelsea had just won the league and he had been a key performer for them down the stretch. His drop off post move has been unprecedented really. I think he is selling us all short.

Not true Llyod. Cole's final two seasons with Chelsea were nothing special. One was plagued with injury and poor form, and one was full of meh perfromances. His last really good season with Chelsea was the 07/08 so there were two seasons worth of serious decline for all to see before he finally arrived at Liverpool for the 2010/11 season.

Chelsea decided that they would not be offering Cole a new big contract, so he went and found some mugs that would offer him top class wages for bargain basement performances.

D'Agger

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Winning trophies is not a prized aim of yours at the start of every season? Cop the **** on

Not for me anyway - I'd prefer to see us not win a trophy for a bit again and focus on getting into the top 4, Champions League, attracting top players once again and hopefully pushing on for a title.

The club that you love so much is far better than 17th and you know it, you're quite simply defending a statement to the hilt to annoy those around who're questioning it's merits - correct me if I'm wrong by all means.

super_furry

skywalker wrote: »

A few of the lads could use a deep breath & some time out in the fresh air, kicking a ball around.

Theres no 'winning' an arguement on the internet, & at the end of the day the only reason anyone comes here is because they want to see liverpool doing well, no need to take it so serious.

It's the internet equivalent of cabin fever. There's nothing happening and nothing to talk about, so folks get a bit stir crazy. See you all in August.

whatawaster

Two cup finals and 17th is ok, yet Lloyd lectures us all on a daily basis about the demise of Liverpool FC.

To my mind, a demise is being completely left behind by a football world which has moved on. The cups are not important any more. League position and Champions League are all that matters.

Kess73

whatawaster wrote: »

Two cup finals and 17th is ok, yet Lloyd lectures us all on a daily basis about the demise of Liverpool FC.

To my mind, a demise is being completely left behind by a football world which has moved on. The cups are not important any more. League position and Champions League are all that matters.

The league and CL are indeed the most important things, but I totally disagree about the cups not being important anymore. Winning a cup is, and will always be, a big event for the club and for the majority of the support.

D'Agger

Kess73 wrote: »

The league and CL are indeed the most important things, but I totally disagree about the cups not being important anymore. Winning a cup is, and will always be, a big event for the club and for the majority of the support.

I agree with you - and cups are good for morale no doubt about it.

But I prefer to see us focus on the league and use cup games to blood through young players and see who's capable of stepping up for us.

BR should be solely focusing on our league position for the next two seasons imo

klose

We should beg some mls clubs to take him off our hands, Cole that is. Nice guy and all and reading the tour site he always seems to be out meeting fans and doing autographs etc.. well past his best.

Some people here seem to have a vendetta against him which is a tad OTT imo.

whatawaster

Kess73 wrote: »

The league and CL are indeed the most important things, but I totally disagree about the cups not being important anymore. Winning a cup is, and will always be, a big event for the club and for the majority of the support.

All other things being equal, yes cups are great to win. But cup success shouldn't come at the expense of league / CL success, nor is it a substitute for it.

Two cup wins and 17th would be a disgrace for any Liverpool manager

Melion

Kess73 wrote: »

The league and CL are indeed the most important things, but I totally disagree about the cups not being important anymore. Winning a cup is, and will always be, a big event for the club and for the majority of the support.

What kind of player do you think we could attract if we finish 17th next year and win the league cup and reach the fa cup final? Think the Sissokos, Mbiwas etc of this world will join a club who finish 17th?

Kess73

whatawaster wrote: »

All other things being equal, yes cups are great to win. But cup success shouldn't come at the expense of league / CL success, nor is it a substitute for it.

Two cup wins and 17th would be a disgrace for any Liverpool manager

Never said that cup success should come at the expense of league position or that league position should come about due to the disregarding of the cups.


Yes the league position should be the priority, but any cup the club is in for should be gone after for as long as the club is in them.


The cups for me, as well as being potential silverware, are a gauge of the club's ability to compete on multiple fronts. If the club wants to get back into the CL, then it has to be able to compete on multiple fronts and the cups are the most obvious way to find out if the squad is capable of doing that.

Nuri Sahin

I don't have a vendetta as such against Joe Cole myself (that's reserved for my pals Walcott, Robinho and Robben ), but he needs to be rid of as soon as possible. That is surely what most of us want. Anyone who thinks Cole offers anything is just kidding themselves.

I don't see what the issue is with encouraging players to do well at matches but criticising them when away from the ground neither, especially when X player offers the square root of **** all. Of course if they put on the red of Liverpool I want to see them do well for the sake of the club.

whatawaster

Kess73 wrote: »

The cups for me, as well as being potential silverware, are a gauge of the club's ability to compete on multiple fronts. If the club wants to get back into the CL, then it has to be able to compete on multiple fronts and the cups are the most obvious way to find out if the squad is capable of doing that.

I'd rather we rested players for every cup game, personally, instead of using them to find out how we would cope in the CL next year.

We would have a much better chance of finishing 4th if we did that, then we could worry about the extra workload the next season, with that extra CL cash there to help strengthen the squad.

Looking at it another way - we need to become a good PL team, first and foremost, and we have not been one for three years. Once we have shown we can challenge the top 4 again, then I'd worry about the cups.

The added bonus of this strategy is quality gametime for our fringe players and also our best young players.

Kess73

Melion wrote: »

What kind of player do you think we could attract if we finish 17th next year and win the league cup and reach the fa cup final? Think the Sissokos, Mbiwas etc of this world will join a club who finish 17th?

Why are you using the come 17th thing with me? Have you ever seen me say that such a finish in the league would be acceptable?

If you want to debate the finishing 17th thing, then do so with the person who said it would be acceptable in certain circumstances. It just comes across as being a bit thick to try and use it to debate a point with someone who has never agreed that a 17th place finish would be acceptable.

Colemania

So is there any transfer gossip here or is it all arguing about Kenny/Carroll/Cole etc.? :P

I think Fulham are playing hardball with Dempsey anyway but they're resigned to losing him. We'll probably sign him for about £7 million in the next 2 weeks. With regards Allen, he looks a handy player to play alongside Lucas but I wouldn't shell out £15 million for him. I'd deal with £10 million alright. I think Henderson could play well in midfield as part of the 433.

Sterling needs to be loaned but I'd keep Suso for the cups. He looks a tidy player and just needs more games. Flanagan had a great start to his Liverpool career but since last season he just seems to have lost confidence or something. Badly needs a loan move to a Championship side. I'd keep Pacheco for the cups too because our squad is in no means big!

Sir Gallagher

The cup runs were great last year but ultimately felt kind of hollow because of the rubbish we had to put up with more or less every week.

I want to see this club play well EVERY week not just when cup games come along. It was so demoralising last year beating City, Chelsea and Utd last year only to lose to some jokeshop side the week after.

People say we exist to win cups but we should exist to provide the fans with an honest and entertaining performance every game we play. Unfirtunately a lot of the players and Kenny couldnt provide that last season.

Kess73

whatawaster wrote: »

I'd rather we rested players for every cup game, personally, instead of using them to find out how we would cope in the CL next year.

We would have a much better chance of finishing 4th if we did that, then we could worry about the extra workload the next season, with that extra CL cash there to help strengthen the squad.

Looking at it another way - we need to become a good PL team, first and foremost, and we have not been one for three years. Once we have shown we can challenge the top 4 again, then I'd worry about the cups.

The added bonus of this strategy is quality gametime for our fringe players and also our best young players.

Not really. It could just as easily mean that the club gets knocked out at the first hurdle in each cup and the fringe players/youth players get no game time of note over the course of the season.

I agree that the strongest first XI should be reserved for the league as much as possible , save for the latter stages of any cup, a certain amount of first teamers should be mixed in with squad filler for the early stages of the cups to ensure we go as far as we can in them.


I want the highest possible finishing position in the league, but I also want to win whatever cup or cups the club is left in at that time. That is never going to change with me.

If you are in it, then you want to go as far as you can in it. That's the only mentality to have for the manager, the players, and the support. Actually that should be the only way to think about it as far as the support is concerned. Once we are in it, then the support is there to want it. If we get knocked out, then we want whatever is left that we are still in for and so on.

The league is the bread and butter and rightly so, but I want the cups whenever possible as well.

NukaCola

Kess73 wrote: »

Never said that cup success should come at the expense of league position or that league position should come about due to the disregarding of the cups.


Yes the league position should be the priority, but any cup the club is in for should be gone after for as long as the club is in them.


The cups for me, as well as being potential silverware, are a gauge of the club's ability to compete on multiple fronts. If the club wants to get back into the CL, then it has to be able to compete on multiple fronts and the cups are the most obvious way to find out if the squad is capable of doing that.

Unless you have a strong squad to pick from, (and even if you do), your going to have to prioritise. LFC will have a lot of cup fixtures next season, should we go after all of the cup competitions? Not a chance IMO.....to do so will be stupid...

I suppose it would go on what you define as gone after i suppose.

All that matters next season is the EPL, in terms of financial and footballing reasons.

Kess73

NukaCola wrote: »

Unless you have a strong squad to pick from, (and even if you do), your going to have to prioritise. LFC will have a lot of cup fixtures next season, should we go after all of the cup competitions? Not a chance IMO.....to do so will be stupid...

I suppose it would go on what you define as gone after i suppose.

All that matters next season is the EPL, in terms of financial and footballing reasons.

Which is why I said in the very post you replied to that the league should take priority.


And yes we should go after every cup we are in. It is an idiotic comment to suggest that a club should not do so. Each cup should be competed for and the quality of the players used to compete for any cup would change depending on how far along the team is in that competition. I have been pretty clear on what I mean by this in my earlier posts today.

slingerz

I think there almost should be a second choice XI for the cups too. If its 4-3-3 then play Doni, Kelly, Coates, Shelvey, Spearing etc those type of players in the Europa League/Carling Cup/ FA Cup and let them compete and make it up to them to win the games so that they have meaningful matches.

Dickerty

Colemania wrote: »

I think Fulham are playing hardball with Dempsey anyway but they're resigned to losing him. We'll probably sign him for about £7 million in the next 2 weeks.

Yeh, I suspect you are right, they are looking for a replacement first I'd say...

Colemania wrote: »

With regards Allen, he looks a handy player to play alongside Lucas but I wouldn't shell out £15 million for him. I'd deal with £10 million alright. I think Henderson could play well in midfield as part of the 433.

Spot on, I have to wonder how much of an improvement Allen is on Hendo, given that Lucas will be the deep & central one of the 3.

Colemania wrote: »

Sterling needs to be loaned....Flanagan had a great start to his Liverpool career but since last season he just seems to have lost confidence or something. Badly needs a loan move to a Championship side.

Defo on Flanagan, we have Johnson, Kelly, Carra and McLoughlin that can play RM. I dunno if Flanno will ever improve enough to break through, so he needs games to see what level he can reach. With Sterling, he just needs games under the right type of coach...

Colemania wrote: »

I'd keep Suso for the cups...I'd keep Pacheco for the cups too because our squad is in no means big!

Agree again! Dani has been loaned out enough, we need to use him now and see if he can stake a claim. Not sure how much Suso would get from a Championship loan, so give him some cup games, Next Gen and regular in reserves. I think Rodgers will keep a very close eye on him, so best to keep him close. I can see him being a pretty regular starter next year...

wonderfullife

I think the logic that cup success trumps league position is outdated by about 20 years. Otherwise where does it stop? If it's merely about winning cups, then the club could be in the Championship and theoretically win 3 cups (being in Europe a la Birmingham).

I sorta resent any sort of comparison between Joe Cole and Winston Bogarde. It hasn't worked out for Joe at LFC but Bogarde literally got his contract, came in got fat, got rich and wouldn't be budged. The fact Cole jumped at the chance to go on loan shows he wants to play football. If he's given a chance under Rodgers good luck to him; if it doesn't work out he'll doubtless move on - he wants to play football.

Kess73

Mr Alan

People realise that if we were to win the Uefa Cup, it'd make us a much more attractive proposition for players next year & make it easier for us to keep our existing top players in the likelihood that we don't get CL football this year, right?

Dickerty

Mr Alan wrote: »

People realise that if we were to win the Uefa Cup, it'd make us a much more attractive proposition for players next year & make it easier for us to keep our existing top players in the likelihood that we don't get CL football this year, right?

Are you asking if people know that winning the UEFA Cup is better than NOT winning it? Seriously?

NukaCola

Kess73 wrote: »

Which is why I said in the very post you replied to that the league should take priority.


And yes we should go after every cup we are in. It is an idiotic comment to suggest that a club should not do so. Each cup should be competed for and the quality of the players used to compete for any cup would change depending on how far along the team is in that competition. I have been pretty clear on what I mean by this in my earlier posts today.

What your actually saying is prioritise the league while fielding a strong team to play in cup competitions........ and i'm making idiotic comments? Jeez give me a break, at the moment our squad isn't strong enough to fight on 3 fronts let alone 4, as shown last season when Kenny took your approach and fell apart in the League.

You cant prioritise the league and field strong teams in cup competitions. Not with our squad. Not unless you have a very strong squad.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

People realise that if we were to win the Uefa Cup, it'd make us a much more attractive proposition for players next year & make it easier for us to keep our existing top players in the likelihood that we don't get CL football this year, right?

People realise that playing players on a Thursday and then playing them again on the Sunday greatly reduces the likelihood that Liverpool will win their league match on the Sunday.

Everyone wants to win the Europa League, but if I had my way Suarez, Agger, Lucas, Gerrard etc would not get a sniff of European action until Spring 2013.

I believe that Kelly, Carragher, Coates, Shelvey, Henderson and the like will be good enough to get us through the groups.

wonderfullife

Mr Alan wrote: »

People realise that if we were to win the Uefa Cup, it'd make us a much more attractive proposition for players next year & make it easier for us to keep our existing top players in the likelihood that we don't get CL football this year, right?

i couldn't agree with that - look at the last 5 winners of the tournament:

Atletico Madrid (x2)
Porto
Shakhtar Donetsk
Zenit St. Petersburg

I don't think the top stars of Europe are clamouring for a transfer to any of those clubs. It might make it marginally more appealing to join the club but wouldn't change the ability to attract the top players - bottom line these days it's about money and being in the CL, don't think UEFA Cup Success matters much either way.

amiable

NukaCola wrote: »

What your actually saying is prioritise the league while fielding a strong team to play in cup competitions........ and i'm idiotic? Jeez give me a break, at the moment our squad isn't strong enough to fight on 3 fronts let alone 4, as shown last season when Kenny took your approach and fell apart in the League.

You cant prioritise the league and field strong teams in cup competitions. Not with our squad. Not unless you have a very strong squad.

I fail to see where anybody accused you of being idiotic.

NukaCola

Mr Alan wrote: »

People realise that if we were to win the Uefa Cup, it'd make us a much more attractive proposition for players next year & make it easier for us to keep our existing top players in the likelihood that we don't get CL football this year, right?

The Uefa cup is a second rate competition. It wouldnt sway top players in any way....

Kerrigooney

Kess73 wrote: »

Which is why I said in the very post you replied to that the league should take priority.


And yes we should go after every cup we are in. It is an idiotic comment to suggest that a club should not do so. Each cup should be competed for and the quality of the players used to compete for any cup would change depending on how far along the team is in that competition. I have been pretty clear on what I mean by this in my earlier posts today.

amiable wrote: »

I fail to see where anybody accused you of being idiotic.

Right there.

amiable

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Right there.

I still fail to see it.

Mr Alan

Dickerty wrote: »

Are you asking if people know that winning the UEFA Cup is better than NOT winning it? Seriously?

Well, people seemingly wanting us to throw it leads me to believe some people seem to think it's not better to win it than not win it.

NukaCola wrote: »

The Uefa cup is a second rate competition. It wouldnt sway top players in any way....

If you had a choice between joining a club not in the CL who just won the Uefa Cup or joining a club not in the CL who went out in the group stages of the Uefa Cup....what would you pick?

It is a second rate competition, but that's where we're at. The best way of getting back to being "first rate" is to be the best second rate club around & therefore have the pick of "second rate" players who aren't going to first rate clubs yet. That's the calibre of player I'm talking about, not your Eden Hazards of the world.

Kess73

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Right there.

Really? Right there? I see me saying that the comment was idiotic, I don't see me calling the poster an idiot or calling him idiotic like his first post claimed before he quickly edited it.


Big difference between saying that I think a comment is idiotic and saying that a person is an idiot or idiotic.

Dr Galen

While I'll always be in the camp that says you go for it, no matter what the competition, the coming season does see a bit of a change for us over last year.

As Alan says, we're back in the Uefa now and for me that should take priority over the Capital One/Carling/Coca Cola Cup for me, because as Alan quite rightly points out, progressing in the Uefa brings much more kudos that the 3rd tier English cup. That said, if we find ourselves in the latter stages of ANY cup competition then we should be all out to win it.

Next season is going to be a hard one to judge objectively, my take is that we'll see need to see a balance of better league performance and a cup run or two in order to claim it as a success, but tbh, it's going to be much more nuanced than that.

amiable

I think it's slightly off topic and I've genuinely thought this for a while that the winners of the UEFA Cup/Europa League should get a place in the Champions League.

Leiva

Can we all just not get along .

Kerrigooney

Kess73 wrote: »

Really? Right there? I see me saying that the comment was idiotic, I don't see me calling the poster an idiot or calling him idiotic like his first post claimed before he quickly edited it.


Big difference between saying that I think a comment is idiotic and saying that a person is an idiot or idiotic.

Fair enough. My bad.

cson

Mr Alan wrote: »

It is a second rate competition, but that's where we're at. The best way of getting back to being "first rate" is to be the best second rate club around & therefore have the pick of "second rate" players who aren't going to first rate clubs yet. That's the calibre of player I'm talking about, not your Eden Hazards of the world.

This is spot on.

At the risk of sounding like Mark Lawrenson, your Barcelona's/Man Citys/Chelseas/AC Milans of this world can only field 11 just the same as anyone else. There is still a lot of talent out there and you only have to look at the likes of Montpellier, Monchengladbach and Braga off the top of my head who have a lot of quality players who'd view Liverpool as forward progress in their careers Champions League notwithstanding. Even look at Newcastle; signed Cabaye who was first choice midfielder for a title winning Lille team. The players are out there.

cson

amiable wrote: »

I think it's slightly off topic and I've genuinely thought this for a while that the winners of the UEFA Cup/Europa League should get a place in the Champions League.

Thought this too.

If you did the same for the FA Cup it'd make it interesting as well.

Overall though, I'm torn on this - league is the best barometer of performance and if you finish 4th you've probably deserved the Champions League place.

Kess73

NukaCola wrote: »

What your actually saying is prioritise the league while fielding a strong team to play in cup competitions........ and i'm idiotic? Jeez give me a break, at the moment our squad isn't strong enough to fight on 3 fronts let alone 4, as shown last season when Kenny took your approach and fell apart in the League.

You cant prioritise the league and field strong teams in cup competitions. Not with our squad. Not unless you have a very strong squad.

Show me exactly where I called you an idiot or where I said that you were idiotic. Some people on here are very quick to try and make out a person is using personal insults, so you can go now and back your claim up.


And what I said about the cups was very clear.

the quality of the players used to compete for any cup would change depending on how far along the team is in that competition

is what I said and it is pretty obvious that it means to strengthen the team used for the cups if the club starts to get the the latter stages, and does not mean go with a full team from the get go.

whatawaster

amiable wrote: »

I think it's slightly off topic and I've genuinely thought this for a while that the winners of the UEFA Cup/Europa League should get a place in the Champions League.

agreed.

I actually think it's an excellent competition, it's just a pity English and Italian teams don't take it more seriously.

NukaCola

Mr Alan wrote: »

If you had a choice between joining a club not in the CL who just won the Uefa Cup or joining a club not in the CL who went out in the group stages of the Uefa Cup....what would you pick?

It is a second rate competition, but that's where we're at. The best way of getting back to being "first rate" is to be the best second rate club around & therefore have the pick of "second rate" players who aren't going to first rate clubs yet. That's the calibre of player I'm talking about, not your Eden Hazards of the world.

Sorry, i misread your post. I thought you meant signing top rate players instead of keeping our top rate players

wonderfullife

amiable wrote: »

I think it's slightly off topic and I've genuinely thought this for a while that the winners of the UEFA Cup/Europa League should get a place in the Champions League.

personally i'd be well in favour of rebuilding the value of the English domestic cups. Let's be real - the Carling Cup is a mickey mouse, field your reserves and u-19 side until the semi final type competition, and the FA Cup isn't far ahead for most of the big clubs ....

I'd like to see a 4 team play-off between 3rd and 4th place in the league and the winners of the FA Cup and League Cup. 2 Champions League places for winners, 2 UEFA Cup places for runners-up. It would really make the domestic cup competitions meaningful.

At the end of the day finishing 3rd/4th in the league these days is an immense achievement - 38 games of consistency - but something has to be done to sort out the cups. Only the truly hardcore could argue the Carling Cup has any sort of value as it stands.

amiable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-J1P34N5RQ

missingtime

amiable wrote: »

I think it's slightly off topic and I've genuinely thought this for a while that the winners of the UEFA Cup/Europa League should get a place in the Champions League.

Absolutely. It would make the competition much more attractive.

ush

EL is 19 games, if LFC where to go all the way. Thats half a season on something that won't get us nearer the top of the table or CL football. The Thursday-sonday is a mare. I could go on.

Rodgers is going to have to prioritise. I think he realises that. I the onwers expect it. I think the fans in a globalised era 2012 couldn't care about domestic cups and would prefer to see the club focused on league and CL success.

5starpool

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But Dom, while you are in to your forties at this stage, you still have a couple of decades of work to go. Joe Cole might have four years tops left, and sitting wasting away for the first two of them might completely impair his ability to secure employment for the latter...

40's? Watch yourself Lloyd or I'll kidnap your dog or something.

NukaCola

Kess73 wrote: »

Show me exactly where I called you an idiot or where I said that you were idiotic. Some people on here are very quick to try and make out a person is using personal insults, so you can go now and back your claim up.


And what I said about the cups was very clear.



is what I said and it is pretty obvious that it means to strengthen the team used for the cups if the club starts to get the the latter stages, and does not mean go with a full team from the get go.

When it was pointed out by amiable that you did not insult me, i reread the post and edited it, and thanked amiables post. I'm sorry but on first read it did seem like an insult.

As for the cups, its not inconcievable that we could make it to the quater finals of the League and FA cup and make it through the group stages. How then can you play those fixtures in a bid to go after cups?

Priority should be laid out
Eg
EPL Full squad
FA Cup mix of reserves and Youth
League cup Youth
Europa Mix of full squad reserves and youth....