Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

Melion

Mr Alan wrote: »

No.

But 2 Cup finals & 8th in first full season back at the club when we were missing our most important player most of the season resulting in a sacking was embarrassing.

8th? You have no problem with 8th? Well we will just have to agree to disagree then

Mr Alan

Kess73 wrote: »

The roles are different, yes. But coming out one day and saying that people are droolers and what not for not giving someone a chance, and then the next day being ready to write someone off before they have shown enough to suggest that they may or may not be good enough smacks of either being pretty stupid, being blinkered when it suits or being a wind up merchant, and I am damn sure that you are not the first option.

I'm not writing Rodgers off.

I've actually bought into it, genuinely. Rodgers talks a great game & it might work out. I'm looking forward to the start of the new season. But if the discussion is about whether or not Dalglish should've been sacked. The answer is simply no.

Mr Alan

Melion wrote: »

8th? You have no problem with 8th? Well we will just have to agree to disagree then

So if Rodgers finishes 7th or 8th this season we sack him?

Yes or no

LuckyLloyd

Melion wrote: »

8th? You have no problem with 8th? Well we will just have to agree to disagree then

The previous two years we were 6th and 7th respectively. You make out like 8th was some unprecedented disaster.

Kenny stagnated in the league, but he didn't take us leaps backwards or something. And he managed to make us very competetive in the cups while doing so...

Dickerty

DrumSteve wrote: »

Looks like we won our first trophy of the year.

That was a mini-tournament they played, they beat the Cockneys in the final on penos. Joe Cole was waxing lyrical about Shelvey, Ibe and Sterling. He was really impressed by the two kids...

Melion

Mr Alan wrote: »

So if Rodgers finishes 7th or 8th this season we sack him?

Yes or no

If he looks like he has any notion of what he is doing then absolutely not. That's where Kenny had a problem.

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's summer 2010 all over again. "Fall into line" is the cry. **** that I say.

Falling into line for no reason would be moronic I agree, but holding off and seeing what happens makes more sense to me right now.


You and I had very similar choices as to who we wanted to see come in once Kenny was sacked. I still think those choices remain better options, but we have Rodgers now and short of me going home and camping out near Melwood with a rifle, there is not much we can do bar wait and see.


Rodgers will stand or fall based on results. It is a very obvious thing to say, but no less valid as a truth.

I'm not going to get on any bandwagons that proclaim him as a second coming of Shanks or any similar waffle, but he gets time from me as to date he does not fill me with the same dread I started to feel during the pre season games when Hodgson started to make excuses. Now If Rodgers comes out during the run of preseason games and starts making excuses before those games before they even start, then my Spider sense will be all a tingle, but for now he is a big gamble that may or may not pay off.

A footballing equivalent of Schrodinger's cat theory if you will.

Melion

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The previous two years we were 6th and 7th respectively. You make out like 8th was some unprecedented disaster.

Kenny stagnated in the league, but he didn't take us leaps backwards or something. And he managed to make us very competetive in the cups while doing so...

8th for Liverpool is a disaster. Every year we are out of the CL is a disaster

citytillidie

Bloc Party! wrote: »

I really like them training tops..the white ones are nicer imo..almost nicer than the actual jerseys

I seen the white polo shirts in the shop last night and looked good, might get one soon.

opr

Enrique was asked in an interview this morning which one of the academy players has impressed him most. He said Ryan McLaughlin, kid in the picture above getting the water poured on him.

Opr

missingtime

opr wrote: »

Enrique was asked in an interview this morning which one of the academy players has impressed him most. He said Ryan McLaughlin, kid in the picture above getting the water poured on him.

Opr

I've seen him a good few times and has been quite impressive. Strong, fast and intelligent.

Dickerty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The previous two years we were 6th and 7th respectively. You make out like 8th was some unprecedented disaster.

Kenny stagnated in the league, but he didn't take us leaps backwards or something. And he managed to make us very competetive in the cups while doing so...

He spent a ton of money! We should have been improving, not falling behind Newcastle, Spurs and Everton...

Mr Alan

Melion wrote: »

If he looks like he has any notion of what he is doing then absolutely not. That's where Kenny had a problem.

You're talking **** mate.

Kenny looked like he'd no clue what he was doing yet up until the Arsenal game (where we played em off the park) we had a great shot at CL. We won a trophy & got to another final.

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm not writing Rodgers off.

I've actually bought into it, genuinely. Rodgers talks a great game & it might work out. I'm looking forward to the start of the new season. But if the discussion is about whether or not Dalglish should've been sacked. The answer is simply no.

But I don't think that is the discussion, Alan. Last season from about March I came out on here and said that the rumours I heard back home were that Kenny was gone in the Summer. I said that I believed it was going to happen and I did not waiver from that. But my own opinion if you want to check back on my old posts was that I would be happy to see that rumour proven wrong and Kenny staying on for at least another season.

So if your question at any point is do I think Kenny should have gotten another season, then my answer is the same as it has been for the past 4 and a half months. Yes.


Do I think that there were much better candidates that should have been gone after instead of Rodgers once Kenny was sacked. Again my answer is yes and my past posting will attest to that.

Do I think Rodgers will be a success? My heart says yes, and my head can see a good arguement for both success and failure.

I cannot wait for the new season though as I am optimistic about it, and I do think we will see some decent players arrrive by the end of the window.

SlickRic

are we forgetting Kenny spent £100m to get us to where we got to last season?

i don't see how it's not reasonable to think he should've done an awful lot better than the tripe we were served up in the League.

as i've said before, i wouldn't have been unhappy to give Kenny time, but a change of direction was never out of the question after last season's performance at that cost.

it remains to be seen if the Rodgers' appointment was an error, and i won't be ridiculed for being a little optimistic.

if anyone but Dalglish had lead us to last season, we wouldn't have half the incredulity from some IMO.

Mr Alan

You'll be ridiculed for changing your opinion weekly though Slick!

Rodgers in, Rodgers out, Rodgers in, Rodgers out!

It's gonna be great!

opr

missingtime wrote: »

I've seen him a good few times and has been quite impressive. Strong, fast and intelligent.

Yeah always been impressed when I've seen him. I'd say Rodgers has probably had him on the radar for a while considering he's a Northern Irish youth international. I can't see Jon Flanagan having a future at the club. He already has Kelly and Johnson ahead of him and I think McLaughlin is probably a better prospect at a similar age. He at least needs to go on loan this season because another year of playing next to no football like last year is going to really hurt his development.

Opr

LuckyLloyd

Melion wrote: »

8th for Liverpool is a disaster. Every year we are out of the CL is a disaster

So if Rodgers doesn't get CL in the next two years sack him? And then sack the next guy, and the next guy?

As I said, something has been lost.

SlickRic

Mr Alan wrote: »

You'll be ridiculed for changing your opinion weekly though Slick!

Rodgers in, Rodgers out, Rodgers in, Rodgers out!

It's gonna be great!

i can only hang my head on this one RE: Kenny anyway

the emotional tie he has with the club made it an almost daily mental wrestling match.

Dont be at yourself

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So if Rodgers doesn't get CL in the next two years sack him? And then sack the next guy, and the next guy?

As I said, something has been lost.

I know. We never should have got rid of Roy. 6 months wasn't enough.

ush

Kess73 wrote: »

A footballing equivalent of Schrodinger's cat theory if you will.

The cat is in the box.

sweetie

Kenny's role in choosing/buying carroll, downing, henderson, adam and his handling of suarez incident were just as big a part of his sacking as the dwindling league form.

Knex*

NukaCola wrote: »

I can see where LL is coming from....

I dont know of anyone, if told Kenny was getting the boot and Rodgers would be the new manager, before Kenny was sacked, that would be happy with that decision.

I know I wasn't. In fact, I was definitely on Lloyd's side during the selection process. Thought there was far better managers readily available rather than chasing an unproven manager.

Before Rodgers was appointed I would have said he should join a club like Aston Villa and prove himself there before getting the Liverpool job. Its seems Lambert, who is probably more highly rated than BR, is doing exactly this.


However, despite being pretty pissed off at the time of appointment I have since come around to cautious optimism with regard to Rodgers and the new season. I like what I've read about him and I've like the philosophy and plans he has for the club.

However, I still believe it to be a massive gamble, just now I'm starting to think it will work.

Melion wrote: »

What did Kenny do before he was given the Liverpool job in 86?
What did Shankly do before being given the Liverpool job?
What did Rafa do to deserve the Valencia job?

You take a fúcking risk on young managers and sometimes it pays off.

Like I said above, as Liverpool Football Club it should not be up to us to take the risk. As Lloyd is constantly alluding to (or raging on about ) its the dilution of standards since the sacking of Benitez that has led to this being acceptable.

We really need to get a grip on ourselves, the club as a whole, and stop accepting mediocrity and move forward.

That said, we have to be realistic also. 4th place I do not think is attainable, but show me some progress a top 6 finish and a good run at the Europe League and I'll be happy with Brendan Rodger's first season.

We need some stability at the club and I for one hope Rodgers proves to us that he is the man that can take us forward over the coming years. And frankly, recently I'm starting to come around to this thought already.

*slurps on Kool Aid*

Mr Alan

Knex. wrote: »

I know I wasn't. In fact, I was definitely on Lloyd's side during the selection process. Thought there was far better managers readily available rather than chasing an unproven manager.

Before Rodgers was appointed I would have said he should join a club like Aston Villa and prove himself there before getting the Liverpool job. Its seems Lambert, who is probably more highly rated than BR, is doing exactly this.


However, despite being pretty pissed off at the time of appointment I have since come around to cautious optimism with regard to Rodgers and the new season. I like what I've read about him and I've like the philosophy and plans he has for the club.

However, I still believe it to be a massive gamble, just now I'm starting to think it will work.

I'm exactly the same.

However, I recognise it's most likely just me trying to make the best of the situation in my head!

Leiva

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm exactly the same.

However, I recognise it's most likely just me trying to make the best of and situation in my head!

On the double Im exactly the same .

We really need to hit the ground running and get some momentum behind Rodgers but looking at the opening games/weeks of the season it is gomna be very very hard which will only fuel the knee jerk brigade.

Knex*

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm exactly the same.

However, I recognise it's most likely just me trying to make the best of and situation in my head!

Aye, psychology 101!

Morzadec

Leiva wrote: »

On the double Im exactly the same .

We really need to hit the ground running and get some momentum behind Rodgers but looking at the opening games/weeks of the season it is gomna be very very hard which will only fuel the knee jerk brigade.

To be honest, I think most of the people getting behind Rodgers are aware that it may be a work in progress and would not neccessarily have knee-jerk reactions if the start of the season is poor.

I think what most like about Rodgers is his plan, a vision, a philosophy, a very clear set way that he wants to do things - this should make fans more patient.

I was on the fence about Kenny, but right now I think we've made the right choice (time will tell of course). I agree that from what I've read about Rodgers and the way he has spoken, I have a sense of cautious optimism in the long term.

The problem with Kenny (or i should say the problem with continuing with Kenny) would have been the lack of a plan/philosophy etc..as mentioned above.

I actually thought we played some pretty good stuff last season, and from what I know about Kenny, what I heard about the training, it seems his philosophy is based on a 'pass-and-move' style. But then he signs Carroll, Downing and Adam for extortionate fees, all of whom don't fit in with that style. There seemed to be no clear direction with Kenny.

With Rodgers he knows what he wants, he appears to know how to go about getting it. We now have a clear direction. This is why people are getting behind him, and why, imo, he will be afforded a reasonable amount of patience if it takes a while for things to fit into place.

Kess73

ush wrote: »

The cat is in the box.

Was expecting that someone would say that we already had Anfield cat.

LuckyLloyd

People got behind Hodgson in the period between his appointment and the playing of competetive football matches even though he had no "vision" or "clear ideas" or whatever.

People are getting behind him because that's what they believe you are supposed to do. 'Move on', 'forget about the past', 'let sleeping dogs lie', etc. If we are losing football matches those people will turn on him like dogs - vision or no vision.

Leiva

Did I miss something when on hols ?

Where is the DOF or the restructuring and title changes the Ayre waffled on about ?

Mr Alan

Leiva wrote: »

Did I miss something when on hols ?

Where is the DOF or the restructuring and title changes the Ayre waffled on about ?

Waffle was all it was. Rodgers is it.

opr

The fact Ian Ayre seems to be negotiating player deals I find incredible. Rodgers mentioned he was speaking to clubs for Liverpool in an interview yesterday. I thought the idea was to scale back his remit not increase it? I mean did we learn nothing from Comolli? Despite the mess he made we have handed the reigns to arguably an even more inexperienced guy.

Opr

shotamoose

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

People got behind Hodgson in the period between his appointment and the playing of competetive football matches even though he had no "vision" or "clear ideas" or whatever.

People are getting behind him because that's what they believe you are supposed to do. 'Move on', 'forget about the past', 'let sleeping dogs lie', etc. If we are losing football matches those people will turn on him like dogs - vision or no vision.

Someone writes a considered, fair post, admitting that he may turn out to be wrong, and you basically call him and everyone else who doesn't agree with you an idiot. Stay classy, dude.

amiable

Junior Hoillet was having talks at QPR today

Knex*

amiable wrote: »

Junior Hoillet was having talks at QPR today

If he ends up staying in England and we don't go for him I think its a mistake. Cheap, young and has potential and plays in a position we're desperate to improve in.

Leiva

shotamoose wrote: »

Someone writes a considered, fair post, admitting that he may turn out to be wrong, and you basically call him and everyone else who doesn't agree with you an idiot. Stay classy, dude.

I don't think LL post was directed specifically at anyone . Just pointing out the crap that we have seen in this thread before.

amiable

Knex. wrote: »

If he ends up staying in England and we don't go for him I think its a mistake. Cheap, young and has potential and plays in a position we're desperate to improve in.

I think he has agreed a deal there already

stick-dan

Lads, there is some amount of bull posted in this thread it's beyond belief. There is a group of people bickering at each other constantly you'd swear to God that it was a merger thread with United fans. Can we not just have a productive thread? The small group that bicker like 80% of the time, derail a thread to an extend where you're reaming through pages of arguments where it's a constant back and forth game of 'my argument is better than yours'. You wouldn't see it in a crèche with two kids arguing over a toy.

For the love of God talk about something productive, it's a pain in the hole coming onto the soccer forum to read your teams thread and all you are reading through is reams of pages of stupid arguments over decisions you ultimately have no control over. Can we not discuss tactics, discuss transfers, discuss the new philosophy our new manager is attempting to bring to the club, anything but this bickering crap. People are entitled to their opinions, let them express them present a counter argument and then once you know each others sides, move on to something new. The same crap is regurgitated here bi-weekly.

Liverpool Fans got behind their managers throughout the club's history in the hard times and the good no matter what. I mightn't be of the era when we were winning all around us, I mightn't know every page of history we have like so many of you proclaim to and possibly do, but I know I support whoever makes the team sheet through thick and thin. Seriously some of you are just embarrassing yourselves. If you're not happy with the appointment, bury that down and support the man, he's going to give it his all, it'll be easier if he isn't facing constant supporter doubt before a ball is even being kicked in the new season, act like the fans the club is renowned for, jesus christ.

Kess73

amiable wrote: »

Junior Hoillet was having talks at QPR today

Again? Must be second round talks or something because he was reported to have had talks with QPR and Fulham (I think) a week or two ago. It caught my eye back then and I posted in the old superthread about it.

LuckyLloyd

shotamoose wrote: »

Someone writes a considered, fair post, admitting that he may turn out to be wrong, and you basically call him and everyone else who doesn't agree with you an idiot. Stay classy, dude.

Welcome to an abrasive opinion. People who have seemingly wiped this time two years ago from their minds are not necessarily idiots, but they have memories that are all too short.

I was mister unpopular back then, I can be mister unpopular again. Who cares? Hopefully I'm wrong and Rodgers is a massive success.

amiable

Kess73 wrote: »

Again? Must be second round talks or something because he was reported to have had talks with QPR and Fulham (I think) a week or two ago. It caught my eye back then and I posted in the old superthread about it.

I know he was definitely in South Africa road today.

LuckyLloyd

stick-dan wrote: »

Lads, there is some amount of bull posted in this thread it's beyond belief. There is a group of people bickering at each other constantly you'd swear to God that it was a merger thread with United fans. Can we not just have a productive thread? The small group that bicker like 80% of the time, derail a thread to an extend where you're reaming through pages of arguments where it's a constant back and forth game of 'my argument is better than yours'. You wouldn't see it in a crèche with two kids arguing over a toy.

For the love of God talk about something productive, it's a pain in the hole coming onto the soccer forum to read your teams thread and all you are reading through is reams of pages of stupid arguments over decisions you ultimately have no control over. Can we not discuss tactics, discuss transfers, discuss the new philosophy our new manager is attempting to bring to the club, anything but this bickering crap. People are entitled to their opinions, let them express them present a counter argument and then once you know each others sides, move on to something new. The same crap is regurgitated here bi-weekly.

Liverpool Fans got behind their managers throughout the club's history in the hard times and the good no matter what. I mightn't be of the era when we were winning all around us, I mightn't know every page of history we have like so many of you proclaim to and possibly do, but I know I support whoever makes the team sheet through thick and thin. Seriously some of you are just embarrassing yourselves. If you're not happy with the appointment, bury that down and support the man, he's going to give it his all, it'll be easier if he isn't facing constant supporter doubt before a ball is even being kicked in the new season, act like the fans the club is renowned for, jesus christ.

Except in Benitez's last season
Or Hodgson's sojourn in charge
Or Dalglish's last season

Ye gods. Cliche ****ing central.

shotamoose

Leiva wrote: »

I don't think LL post was directed specifically at anyone . Just pointing out what we have seen in this thread before.

Looked to me like a fairly direct response to Morzadec's post. But that doesn't really matter - point is that people may be 'getting behind' Rodgers for reasons other than drooling idiocy.

Kess73

amiable wrote: »

I know he was definitely in South Africa road today.

Well when it comes to all things W12, I will be paying more attention to what you say than most of the Twitter ITKs.

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Except in Benitez's last season
Or Hodgson's sojourn in charge
Or Dalglish's last season

Ye gods. Cliche ****ing central.

Sorry but I refuse to acknowledge the fact that there was a manager between Rafa and Kenny.

SlickRic

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I was mister unpopular back then, I can be mister unpopular again. Who cares? Hopefully I'm wrong and Rodgers is a massive success.

and this is why i actually enjoy some of the abrasive discussions in here, because at the end of the day, we are all after the same thing...success. there's no ONE way to success, and we're all going to have different opinions on how the club is going to get to where we want to be.

it's the greatness of all people being unique.

we all want the club, and Rodgers to be a success. you. Al. whoever. we can all disagree, but as long as we're wanting the club to win then none of this actually matters a shít. that's the beauty of a message board. we're just enjoying a rant and/or a discussion.

good times

amiable

Kess73 wrote: »

Well when it comes to all things W12, I will be paying more attention to what you say than most of the Twitter ITKs.

Knex*

stick-dan wrote: »

Lads, there is some amount of bull posted in this thread it's beyond belief. There is a group of people bickering at each other constantly you'd swear to God that it was a merger thread with United fans. Can we not just have a productive thread? The small group that bicker like 80% of the time, derail a thread to an extend where you're reaming through pages of arguments where it's a constant back and forth game of 'my argument is better than yours'. You wouldn't see it in a crèche with two kids arguing over a toy.

For the love of God talk about something productive, it's a pain in the hole coming onto the soccer forum to read your teams thread and all you are reading through is reams of pages of stupid arguments over decisions you ultimately have no control over. Can we not discuss tactics, discuss transfers, discuss the new philosophy our new manager is attempting to bring to the club, anything but this bickering crap. People are entitled to their opinions, let them express them present a counter argument and then once you know each others sides, move on to something new. The same crap is regurgitated here bi-weekly.

Liverpool Fans got behind their managers throughout the club's history in the hard times and the good no matter what. I mightn't be of the era when we were winning all around us, I mightn't know every page of history we have like so many of you proclaim to and possibly do, but I know I support whoever makes the team sheet through thick and thin. Seriously some of you are just embarrassing yourselves. If you're not happy with the appointment, bury that down and support the man, he's going to give it his all, it'll be easier if he isn't facing constant supporter doubt before a ball is even being kicked in the new season, act like the fans the club is renowned for, jesus christ.

You say people are entitled to their opinions, you call for discussion and yet you then state that you want people to stop the discussions that are already in place?

As for the bolded bit, this is the kind of nonsense that is branded around by Liverpool fans a lot. I'm all for keeping shut about your reservations on the manager/players and backing them to the hilt on matchday, but if you can't discuss your reservations during the offseason, or between games, then when the hell can you?

Looking at the club through rose tinted glasses and saying everything will be OK, so I'll just bury my opinions now and stick my head in the Liverpool sand is just ridiculous.

amiable

Irish Examiner GAA correspondent John Fogarty is claiming personal terms have been agreed with Joe Allen.
He was claiming a fee was agreed for Gaston Ramirez 2 weeks ago.

Knex*

SlickRic wrote: »

and this is why i actually enjoy some of the abrasive discussions in here, because at the end of the day, we are all after the same thing...success. there's no ONE way to success, and we're all going to have different opinions on how the club is going to get to where we want to be.

it's the greatness of all people being unique.

we all want the club, and Rodgers to be a success. you. Al. whoever. we can all disagree, but as long as we're wanting the club to win then none of this actually matters a shít. that's the beauty of a message board. we're just enjoying a rant and/or a discussion.

good times

Spot on.