Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

Kess73

amiable wrote: »

Irish Examiner GAA correspondent John Fogarty is claiming personal terms have been agreed with Joe Allen.
He was claiming a fee was agreed for Gaston Ramirez 2 weeks ago.

Some waft of shyte of of that guy's soccer "exclusives"

shotamoose

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Welcome to an abrasive opinion. People who have seemingly wiped this time two years ago from their minds are not necessarily idiots, but they have memories that are all too short.

I was mister unpopular back then, I can be mister unpopular again. Who cares? Hopefully I'm wrong and Rodgers is a massive success.

People might be getting behind Rodgers while still remembering the Hodgson era all too well. They're not actually the same person. Maybe in your fevered imagination they are, but other people can make the distinction. Most of us are content to wait and see before passing definitive judgement, maybe you could try that even if it is less satisfying then insulting all and sundry.

stick-dan

Knex. wrote: »

You say people are entitled to their opinions, you call for discussion and yet you then state that you want people to stop the discussions that are already in place?

As for the bolded bit, this is the kind of nonsense that is branded around by Liverpool fans a lot. I'm all for keeping shut about your reservations on the manager/players and backing them to the hilt on matchday, but if you can't discuss your reservations during the offseason, or between games, then when the hell can you?

Looking at the club through rose tinted glasses and saying everything will be OK, so I'll just bury my opinions now and stick my head in the Liverpool sand is just ridiculous.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the last month or two has been the same repetitive crap between the pro Kenny Supporters and his detractors. New chapter please.

As for bolded bit, there is people calling Brendan's demise and we haven't kicked a football competitively yet, so reservations yes, proclaiming his failure almost daily repetitively NO. It's like a doom and gloom squad in here at times!
Did you expect any manager to come in and make everything ok overnight? We all know the club is going throw a tough time, and just like in real life, outside beyond the realms of argumentative keyboard warriors, when times are tough, you've got to look to even the smallest glimmers of hope.Anyway, just my opinion, we're all allowed to share our views mines just that.

Mr Alan

stick-dan wrote: »

Liverpool Fans got behind their managers throughout the club's history in the hard times and the good no matter what

Presuming that's a joke? In the last few years we have treated two clubs legends disgracefully & ****ed them off like petulant spoilt children.

SlickRic wrote: »

and this is why i actually enjoy some of the abrasive discussions in here, because at the end of the day, we are all after the same thing...success. there's no ONE way to success, and we're all going to have different opinions on how the club is going to get to where we want to be.

it's the greatness of all people being unique.

we all want the club, and Rodgers to be a success. you. Al. whoever. we can all disagree, but as long as we're wanting the club to win then none of this actually matters a shít. that's the beauty of a message board. we're just enjoying a rant and/or a discussion.

good times

I like the sentiment of what you're saying, but I disagree in that I think a portion of our fanbase are partially responsible for the mess this club has become in the last few years. Not least by allowing some of the disgraceful decisions made at the club pass by without any resistance & even by actively calling for changes that negatively effected our performance as a club because of their own stupidity.

LuckyLloyd

Leiva wrote: »

Did I miss something when on hols ?

Where is the DOF or the restructuring and title changes the Ayre waffled on about ?

When Rodgers was hired I was told in this thread that it was positive that we were getting the right "structure" in place, that giving full control to top tier managers was shortsighted. Looks like Rodgers has full control to me.

LuckyLloyd

shotamoose wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Welcome to an abrasive opinion. People who have seemingly wiped this time two years ago from their minds are not necessarily idiots, but they have memories that are all too short.

I was mister unpopular back then, I can be mister unpopular again. Who cares? Hopefully I'm wrong and Rodgers is a massive success.

People might be getting behind Rodgers while still remembering the Hodgson era all too well. They're not actually the same person. Maybe in your fevered imagination they are, but other people can make the distinction. Most of us are content to wait and see before passing definitive judgement, maybe you could try that even if it is less satisfying then insulting all and sundry.

Oh no, big bad Lloyd has upset you. This isn't courtesy class.

Bloc Party!

citytillidie wrote: »

I seen the white polo shirts in the shop last night and looked good, might get one soon.

Yeah there very nice too..warrior are producing a lot of nice gear for them.

shotamoose

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Oh no, big bad Lloyd has upset you. This isn't courtesy class.

Great stuff, back to your moaning then.

Ape X

Asked this in the other thread, but it got lost among the polite discussion - any talk of Ramirez still signing or has that one died a death?

Gbear

Ape X wrote: »

Asked this in the other thread, but it got lost among the polite discussion - any talk of Ramirez still signing or has that one died a death?

There was a strong suggestion that that link died when Commolli left and the rumours around it were based on links to the player months ago.

MD1990

i hope we are not paying 15 Million for Joe Allen even though he is a good player
Swansea are close to signing Mark Davies according to Sky

Grayditch

I don't mind the bickering, over the top harshness talking about players, or mind numbing negativity, but if people keep over using the term 'waxing lyrical', I'm going to put a pencil up my nose and headbutt the desk.

Ape X

Grayditch wrote: »

I don't mind the bickering, over the top harshness talking about players, or mind numbing negativity, but if people keep over using the term 'waxing lyrical', I'm going to put a pencil up my nose and headbutt the desk.

But I don't want to see a magic trick!

daithijjj

MD1990 wrote: »

i hope we are not psying 15 Million for Joe Allen even though he is a good player
Swansea are close to signing Mark Davies according to Sky

Dont think there is any truth in it. Follow https://twitter.com/pjcadden.

K-9

So much for the new thread!

I was happy enough with Kenny at Christmas time, very happy after beating City to get to the CC final and hoped it would push us on in the League. Instead we got worse and that was very worrying. It seemed the initial enthusiasm seemed to just go out of the squad and indeed the management. The Cup Final kind of summed it up, not starting Carroll and then bringing him on to nearly bring it to extra time kind of summed up the problems. Cup runs are great but it's bonus territory these days, the top teams don't take them seriously at the start, only if they get to the final stages. We took them seriously because of no European football and I understood the logic in that, but at the detriment of a higher league finish and a challenge for 4th.

Whatever about the prices paid, Kenny wanted those players signed and barring Suarez and Enrique the rest have been poor to average, plus whatever system he envisaged for them didn't work. Fair enough the injury to Lucas didn't help but that's part of football to use the cliche. Rafa didn't get much sympathy for that in his last season with a constant stream of them.

Basically the decision came down to, was 2 Cup runs enough and would they see us transfer that to better league form this season? Thinking logically I had too many doubts based on the league form from Xmas on, emotionally I'd have liked him to get another go.

Rodgers is a different point again, not wanting Kenny does not mean wanting Rodgers. The owners have gone down the inexperienced route and good luck to them! Its one that will need patience. As for this season it's all about the league, couldn't careless about the Cups except to see the young lads get experience.

Turtyturd

Grayditch wrote: »

I don't mind the bickering, over the top harshness talking about players, or mind numbing negativity, but if people keep over using the term 'waxing lyrical', I'm going to put a pencil up my nose and headbutt the desk.

'Jog on' then.:pac:

MD1990

John Henry watches Reds train




19th Jul 2012
The Liverpool players had a rather important spectator at training this morning when principal owner John Henry visited Harvard.
Henry joined Reds legend Ian Rush to watch the entire session and the pair chatted on the sidelines as Rodgers put the players through another grueling session - with extra emphasis placed in the tactics of defending set-pieces inside the box.

For Henry, it was the first time he'd seen the new manager out on the training pitch and like chairman Tom Werner, who paid a visit on Tuesday, he was clearly impressed.
"It was great to see Brendan in action," Henry enthused, following a post-training session chat with the manager.
"Ian Rush would be far more qualified than me to comment on the actual training session but one thing I will say is that everything looked very structured and organised.
"Brendan's attention to detail is amazing - everything is done for a reason and that really came through today in the session. It will be great when we get more of the players who were involved in the European Championships over next week but even without them today, it was just nice to see the squad training together again."

Here are some more pictures from the training session

jenno86

daithijjj wrote: »

Dont think there is any truth in it. Follow https://twitter.com/pjcadden.

Whats that all about?

missingtime

Anyone else not want Joe Allen?

Turtyturd

MD1990 wrote: »

John Henry watches Reds train

Here are some more pictures from the training session

Caption time.

daithijjj

jenno86 wrote: »

Whats that all about?

I suppose it means that his rep was asked about the rumour and said "its a load of excrement" or something similar.

missingtime

MD1990 wrote: »

"God, I really hope this hat impresses them"
"So....what do you think of the hat?"
"..."

Turtyturd

missingtime wrote: »

"God, I really hope this hat impresses them"
"So....what do you think of the hat?"
"..."

The man from Delmonte says yes..................to mediocrity.

Knex*

missingtime wrote: »

Anyone else not want Joe Allen?

For 15m I would rather we invested our resources elsewhere. However, I do think he is a good, promising young player and would definitely fit in at a top club. Also, having worked with Rodgers before it may help both him, and Rodgers, implement their style more easily from the off if he was to sign.

Leiva

Spending £15mil on Allen and missing out in Sig for £8mil (questionable wages or not ) would be bordering on crazy.

Mr Alan

Leiva wrote: »

Spending £15mil on Allen and missing out in Sig for £8mil (questionable wages or not ) would be bordering on crazy.

In fairness, they're very different players & we need an Allen type of player more. However, £15m seems a lot & if we'd have been linked with him prior to Rodgers appointment, people would have gone bananas.

Leiva

Mr Alan wrote: »

In fairness, they're very different players & we need an Allen type of player more. However, £15m seems a lot & if we'd have been linked with him prior to Rodgers appointment, people would have gone bananas.

Oh my post was in no way trying to draw a comparison on the type of player it was purely a financial based opinion, but still we need both type players imo.

Kirby

From a neutral's perspective, I think 15 million is mad money. I think he would be of value because he is decent and also has worked with Rodgers before so would bed in quickly.....but that's just too much. Maybe for 7 or 8 million. 15 is just swansea chancing their arm. He isn't quick enough, doesn't score enough goals and he isn't a good enough passer to command that type of fee. Some swansea fans go a bit overboard with their praise of him imo. He has good technique and is a decent dribbler but I just don't think he is worth that much. It would be repeating the mistakes made with downing and henderson. Paying over the odds for average players.

whatawaster

Kirby wrote: »

From a neutral's perspective, I think 15 million is mad money. I think he would be of value because he is decent and also has worked with Rodgers before so would bed in quickly.....but that's just too much. Maybe for 7 or 8 million. 15 is just swansea chancing their arm. He isn't quick enough, doesn't score enough goals and he isn't a good enough passer to command that type of fee.

He is fairly quick, and goals are not his game. You could use both of those attributes to criticise Alonso, by the way.

Allen is also a very good passer.

15 million is still mental though

opr

Kirby wrote: »

From a neutral's perspective, I think 15 million is mad money. I think he would be of value because he is decent and also has worked with Rodgers before so would bed in quickly.....but that's just too much. Maybe for 7 or 8 million. 15 is just swansea chancing their arm. He isn't quick enough, doesn't score enough goals and he isn't a good enough passer to command that type of fee.

He was placed 7th in a table of passing accuracy which covered all the European top league players with over 1000 passes made last season.

Opr

machiavellianme

whatawaster wrote: »

He is fairly quick, and goals are not his game. You could use both of those attributes to criticise Alonso, by the way.

Allen is also a very good passer.

15 million is still mental though

Huh? Xabi scores from his own half?

Kirby

Those stats are completely meaningless. Mediocre players like Mikel have brilliant passing accuracy stats. Swansea played in a style under rodgers that meant lots of one touch and two touch 10 and 15 yard passes. This racks up the passes completed stat up very quickly but doesn't tell you how many of them were actually forward or productive passes. The much maligned Charlie Adam looked like a world beater in Blackpool's midfield. How has that worked out?

Allen is nowhere near alonso's passing ability whatawaster. 15 million is simply crazy.

G.K.

machiavellianme wrote: »

Huh? Xabi scores from his own half?

But how often does he do that?

opr

Here is some more statistics on Joe Allen compared with Lucas and the PL average.

Dan Kennett ‏@DanKennett

1/6 Why ‪#LFC‬ should sign Joe Allen. Some key metrics showing how Allen compares to Lucas and also the PL average for all midfielders

2/6 Successful Touches Per Match: JA 84, LL 75, PL 65 | Possession Regains Per Match: JA 8, LL 6.7, PL 5.5

3/6 Defensive Half Pass Accuracy: JA 0.948, LL 0.89, PL 0.892 | Successful Long Balls Per Match: JA 6.1, LL 4, PL 2.8

4/6 Successful Final Third Passes Per match: JA 13.3, LL 13.2, PL 11.7 | Final Third Completion: JA 0.836, LL 0.814, PL 0.722

5/6 To conclude: he's a definite multi-functional player. His performance as a destroyer/passer put him in the elite of EPL midfielders

6/6 Technique also very strong compared to peers and even his creativity is above PL average. No obvious weakness

Opr

whatawaster

Kirby wrote: »

Allen is nowhere near alonso's passing ability whatawaster.

I never said he was

Turtyturd

G.K. wrote: »

But how often does he do that?

More often than Joe Allen.

Kirby

opr wrote: »

Some key metrics showing how Allen compares to Lucas and also the PL average for all midfielders

When I see words like "key metrics" thrown around it makes me facepalm. Footballers shouldn't be signed on statistics. Whatever happened to actually watching players play over an extended period of time and basing an opinion on what your eyes tell you and not a spreadsheet?

I'm not saying ALL stats are completely meaningless but they shouldn't be the basis of a signing.

LuckyLloyd

shotamoose wrote: »

Great stuff, back to your moaning then.

You say that as if my moaning is unwarranted! Just three years ago we were in here talking about what we needed to do to push us over the line in the league and CL, and it wasn't ridiculous talk - we had every right to feel optimistic. Now here we are, with Brendan Rodgers as manager and Clint Dempsey / Joe ****ing Allen potentially our biggest summer acquisition. Everyone should be moaning!! This thread should be in absolute turmoil!

So many in here want some sort of nice, relaxed conversation where we discuss the finer elements of up and coming youth players at the club or what a nice man Joe Cole is. Bollocks to that. This club is becoming competitively irrelevant right now this minute in front of your eyes. Wake up and get mad! Your acceptance of what is happening now is a big step towards permanent acceptance of mediocrity and lowered expectations.

Leiva

Kirby wrote: »

Those stats are completely meaningless. Mediocre players like Mikel have brilliant passing accuracy stats. It's very easy to look good in a possession team. Swansea played in a style under rodgers that meant lots of one touch and two touch 10 and 15 yard passes. This racks up the passes completed stat up very quickly but doesn't tell you how many of them were actually forward or productive passes.

Allen is nowhere near alonso's passing ability whatawaster.

stats should always be taken with caution .
This vid of Allen against us would show he is a little work horse but not many Alonso like killer balls .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IsmqG4CSiQ

He likes to break up play and snap at heels .

Lucas in the back - Allen in the hole - Aquilani in front is one midfield football orgy I wouldn't mind seeing.

Turtyturd

Yep, anyone waxing lyrical about key metrics really needs to jog on.

Knex*

Turtyturd wrote: »

Yep, anyone waxing lyrical about key metrics really needs to jog on.

All three of them? You dick

Kirby

He forgot net spend and the system though. All five would have broken the internet.

opr

Kirby wrote: »

When I see words like "key metrics" thrown around it makes me facepalm. Footballers shouldn't be signed on statistics. Whatever happened to actually watching players play over an extended period of time and basing an opinion on what your eyes tell you and not a spreadsheet?

I'm not saying ALL stats are completely meaningless but they shouldn't be the basis of a signing.

He is hardly getting signed on statistics? I think our manager might have watched him a few times :pac:

Opr

Kirby

Then why post those "metrics"? Why not just say "Rodgers knows him well, if he thinks he's worth 15 million" etc. etc. People are trying to argue that Column A means player B is worth X and its bonkers.

Morzadec

Kirby wrote: »

When I see words like "key metrics" thrown around it makes me facepalm. Footballers shouldn't be signed on statistics. Whatever happened to actually watching players play over an extended period of time and basing an opinion on what your eyes tell you and not a spreadsheet?

I'm not saying ALL stats are completely meaningless but they shouldn't be the basis of a signing.

Yeah but what they do do is give the average football fan (such as me) who has only seen a handful of Swansea games an impression of what Allen is about. In fairness those stats tell me a lot in a very short amount of time.

Of course we are not potentially signing him based only on stats - Rodgers worked with him for a whole year and knows him better than anyone, so he has most definitely been watched closely.

I found the stats interesting and impressive. What was particularly interesting and perhaps surprising was his relatively high rate for final third passes, and to a lesser extent his 6 long balls a match. We all know him as part of Swansea's system last year so the high pass % is no surprise, but the two former stats mentioned would answer some of the doubts I may have had over him.

I agree with the previous comments that £15m seems a lot for a player with one good PL season under his belt though.

Knex*

Kirby wrote: »

He forgot net spend and the system though. All five would have broken the internet.

I still don't think system deserves to be on this list

Petition to switch it with wheelbarrow.

Knex*

Kirby wrote: »

Then why post those "metrics"? Why not just say "Rodgers knows him well, if he thinks he's worth 15 million" etc. etc. People are trying to argue that Column A means player B is worth X and its bonkers.

They're quite interesting and help paint a bigger picture. Why live in ignorance when the knowledge is at hand?



Btw in case I come across wrong, when i say ignorance I don't mean you, yourself are ignorant. More a general thing.

Edit: Morzadec covered it all really.

opr

Kirby wrote: »

Then why post those "metrics"? Why not just say "Rodgers knows him well, if he thinks he's worth 15 million" etc. etc. People are trying to argue that Column A means player B is worth X and its bonkers.

I was posting some stats in the thread which pertain to a player we might be signing. Not as a reason to sign him, you suggested that all on your own.

Opr

Kirby

I didn't suggest it. Everyone else does in their arguments. The Kennet twitter post itself was labelled "Why LFC should sign Joe Allen?"

amiable

Kirby wrote: »

Allen is nowhere near alonso's passing ability crazy.

Who is?