Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

Sir Gallagher

opr wrote: »

Carroll wasn't in dispute with his agent and only decided to change agents when the Liverpool deal appeared on the horizon. Head-sand-bury I don't care but am only pointing out that the deal was so so dodgy and Carroll played a huge part.



Well I could talk about what we've seen on the pitch for £35m but that would be even more embarrassing to Andy.

Opr

The only party i'm embarrassed for is Liverpool football club for being rode on this deal. Players are always pulling stunts in this day and age to get the best possible deal for themselves, trying to implicate Carroll as some kind of shady figure in that insane deal is a bit odd imo.

Jesus Wept

amiable wrote: »

Well tell me somebody who does think we got £35 Million worth! Irrelevant.

opr

I'm not blaming Carroll but he played his part. If anyone has read enough about the deal and thinks otherwise I would find that incredible.

My initial point is just let him go to West Ham in the deal mentioned. I don't feel we owe Andy anything and it's a great deal for us.

Opr

Chucky the tree

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

The only party i'm embarrassed for is Liverpool football club for being rode on this deal. Players are always pulling stunts in this day and age to get the best possible deal for themselves, trying to implicate Carroll as some kind of shady figure in that insane deal is a bit odd imo.

I don't think he's saying he is shady, just that the myth about Poor Andy being forced out of Newcastle and how he didn't want to leave is bull****.

K-9

opr wrote: »

I'm not blaming Carroll but he played his part. If anyone has read enough about the deal and thinks otherwise I would find that incredible.

My initial point is just let him go to West Ham in the deal mentioned. I don't feel we owe Andy anything and it's a great deal for us.

Opr

He was in the process of changing agent for God knows what fecking reason, none of our business.

It became our business when we put in a £35 Million bid on the 31st of January 2011. We all know it was a rushed transfer.

It's conspiracy theory stuff. If it is, well, Liverpool look to be conspiring just as much as Carroll!

Didn't Rodgers say he wouldn't loan out Carroll?

So that story must be BS

osnola ibax

I don't want to see him loaned on any basis. Just buy the player if you want him and let's move on. The whole thing was a jaw slackener from day one.

Guy:Incognito

noodler wrote: »

Amazing the vile that gets typed about Roy here without raising an eyebrow and someone who suggests Kenny should be judged on his time as manager alone are called 'bad fans'.

No one has any problem with him being judged on his time as manager alone. It's the selective judging by only taking a certain portion of his 2nd spell.he wasn't only the manager for the 5 months of league games after Christmas and medals dont expire.

Leiva

If the £2million + £16million after survival is true then Andy is gone .

I can't see Newcastle let WHU get away with such a deal if we accept, so I could see them upping the initial fee to bring it in line with our £20mil valuation which would suit us, but for the sake of £2million it might be better to push WHU for the extra rather than sell to one of our main CL rivals.

amiable

M'vila supposedly available to buy for €15 million euro

Leiva

amiable wrote: »

M'vila supposedly available to buy for €15 million euro

Is his lack of recent form down to attitude or fitness ?

doc_17

I'd definitely let him go to West Ham. On one condition. Barring relegation, there should be absolutely no way for them out of the deal. None.

NabyLadistheman

doc_17 wrote: »

I'd definitely let him go to West Ham. On one condition. Barring relegation, there should be absolutely no way for them out of the deal. None.

I can see it now, shouting for West Ham in the last few games of the season after another lofty mid-table finish. No thanks.

Selling Carroll at this stage is ridiculous. Loaning him is even worse, especially under those 'avoiding relegation terms'. The only way I will entertain selling AC now is if we get a deal done for 20m and have a improvement lined up

gafferino

Liverpool skipper Steven Gerrard has backed new boss Brendan Rodgers to lead the club back into the UEFA Champions League next season.

The Reds have missed out on Europe's premier competition for the last three seasons after finishing outside the top four.

"I do think we will get in the top four," said Gerrard. "I think we will get it. I am confident we will get it.

"I am not being unrealistic. If we can play like we did in a lot of games last season, be clinical and take our chances, I think we will be high up in the table. I do.

skywalker

Entertaining that west ham offer would be crazy. Buy him or dont.

amiable

Leiva wrote: »

Is his lack of recent form down to attitude or fitness ?

I think there is something going on with his attitude.
Plenty of talent there but he may not be the type Rodgers wants because that reported attitude.

Cartman78

skywalker wrote: »

Entertaining that west ham offer would be crazy. Buy him or dont.

It may well be a crazy deal/offer but I can't see us getting a better one from him now or in the future tbh.

With all the best will in the world for Carroll, I can't see him ever being good enough to be a Liverpool player at the level that the club & it's fans aspire to.

The 'system' we play is largely irrelevant imho - I just don't think he's got the footballing intelligence or talent to make it at Anfield.

The supposed interest from Newcastle seems odd though...would fly in the face of their recent transfer excellent transfer policy.

Dr Galen

amiable wrote: »

I think there is something going on with his attitude.
Plenty of talent there but he may not be the type Rodgers wants because that reported attitude.

There was a rumour floating around a few weeks ago that Wenger was scaling back on looking at him due to attitude problems. I haven't seen that verified anywhere or read much that supports this though. If true, then it is something that you would have to balance up, and see if his ability outweighed his potential attitude problems.

While I'd have a few doubts over BR's managerial experience at the top level, lets not forget he has been a coach at for a long time (about 20 years) and been working with young players for as long, so I doubt it would be the first time he has come across such a scenario. Making decisions like this should not be beyond him and I'd expect him to make the right call here because of his experience.

amiable

Dr Galen wrote: »

There was a rumour floating around a few weeks ago that Wenger was scaling back on looking at him due to attitude problems. I haven't seen that verified anywhere or read much that supports this though. If true, then it is something that you would have to balance up, and see if his ability outweighed his potential attitude problems.

While I'd have a few doubts over BR's managerial experience at the top level, lets not forget he has been a coach at for a long time (about 20 years) and been working with young players for as long, so I doubt it would be the first time he has come across such a scenario. Making decisions like this should not be beyond him and I'd expect him to make the right call here because of his experience.

He showed attitude problems at the Euros?

Kerrigooney

gafferino wrote: »

Liverpool skipper Steven Gerrard has backed new boss Brendan Rodgers to lead the club back into the UEFA Champions League next season.

The Reds have missed out on Europe's premier competition for the last three seasons after finishing outside the top four.

"I do think we will get in the top four," said Gerrard. "I think we will get it. I am confident we will get it.

"I am not being unrealistic. If we can play like we did in a lot of games last season, be clinical and take our chances, I think we will be high up in the table. I do.

Someone said on here yesterday (can`t remember who,sorry) that John Henry needs to shut up and I think the same could be said for Steven Gerrard.

Comments like this puts a lot of pressure on everyone. It`s getting to the stage now that every thought that enters Gerrards head we have to hear about it.

I know it`s not his fault,it`s the media but I don`t think it`d do him any harm to keep his thoughts to himself once in a while and trot out the usual cliched footballer crap instead.

Melion

Who is gonna be showing the match next Thursday?

Francie Barrett

Leiva wrote: »

If the £2million + £16million after survival is true then Andy is gone .

I can't see Newcastle let WHU get away with such a deal if we accept, so I could see them upping the initial fee to bring it in line with our £20mil valuation which would suit us, but for the sake of £2million it might be better to push WHU for the extra rather than sell to one of our main CL rivals.

Take the damn money and draw a line under this sorry affair.

Colemania

West ham just made a club record £17 million bid for Carroll. So i guess all that talk of a loan last night was a bit wrong! I think if we don't accept it, that'll be the end of their interest in Carroll but if we are thinking of selling, we'll need to have a replacement lined up straight away. Who? I haven't the faintest idea! Ba perhaps?

I am pie

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Someone said on here yesterday (can`t remember who,sorry) that John Henry needs to shut up and I think the same could be said for Steven Gerrard.

Comments like this puts a lot of pressure on everyone. It`s getting to the stage now that every thought that enters Gerrards head we have to hear about it.

I know it`s not his fault,it`s the media but I don`t think it`d do him any harm to keep his thoughts to himself once in a while and trot out the usual cliched footballer crap instead.

I think if you are a captain of your national side, and playing for a club anywhere in the top 8 then you have to go into the season believing you can succeed in getting into the top 4. If not, why turn up.

Ambition and drive are critical, there is pressure to perform, there is pressure to play attractive football and there is pressure to achieve goals. Belief is mandatory ! Correctly so I believe.

It would be wrong to start the season saying we can't qualify, we aren't great etc. it would be criminal !

Melion

The time to sign Ba is while he is available for 7m, that ends at the end of July doesn't it? Newcastle will try fleece us over the price otherwise

LuckyLloyd

I am pie wrote: »

It would be wrong to start the season saying we can't qualify, we aren't great etc. it would be criminal !

You don't need to say anything, is the point. I'd be happyiest if no Liverpool player / coach / owner said a single word to the media from one end of the season to the other tbh.

Leiva

Jeez I'm in a spin .

I don't know how I feel now about Carroll going.

My fears come from the fact that I think we should cash in on this transfer window hype, as I fear come the second week in say OCT we could be saying we should have cashed in and WHU (or other) could be saying they dodged a bullet.

But yet again the complete opposite could be true .



Fück it I have decided ... Thanks Andy but goodbye . You had your chance to prove but let's both cut our losses .

Fùck it I have changed my mind again .
:pac:

Kerrigooney

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You don't need to say anything, is the point. I'd be happyiest if no Liverpool player / coach / owner said a single word to the media from one end of the season to the other tbh.

Exactly. We don`t need to hear every single bloody thought.

Kerrigooney

Leiva wrote: »

Jeez I'm in a spin .

I don't know how I feel now about Carroll going.

My fears come from the fact that I think we should cash in on this transfer window hype, as I fear come the second week in say OCT we could be saying we should have cashed in and WHU (or other) could be saying they dodged a bullet.

But yet again the complete opposite could be true .



Fück it I have decided ... Thanks Andy but goodbye . You had your chance to prove but let's both cut our losses .

Fùck it I have changed my mind again .
:pac:

We need to clone him.

Sell him and keep him.

It`s the only way your sanity will be restored.:pac:

Sir Gallagher

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You don't need to say anything, is the point. I'd be happyiest if no Liverpool player / coach / owner said a single word to the media from one end of the season to the other tbh.

Completely unrealistic tbh. I do agree that i dont think owners should ne giving any interviews at all unless its about stadium or financial issues.

noodler

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No one has any problem with him being judged on his time as manager alone. It's the selective judging by only taking a certain portion of his 2nd spell.he wasn't only the manager for the 5 months of league games after Christmas and medals dont expire.

??

You want people to take his first managerial spell 21 years ago into account when assessing the last 18 months?

sweetie

as much as id like to see andy stay and succeed id take demba ba plus 13 million

FernandoTorres

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Completely unrealistic tbh. I do agree that i dont think owners should ne giving any interviews at all unless its about stadium or financial issues.

I'd say given the amount of money they've put into the club they're entitled to talk about it all they want! They're not a charity.

LuckyLloyd

FernandoTorres wrote: »

I'd say given the amount of money they've put into the club they're entitled to talk about it all they want! They're not a charity.

The range of things I can do or say is X
The range of things I am reasonably entitled to do or say should I choose is a subset of X, let's call it Y
What I SHOULD do or say in order to act in my best interest is a subset of Y, let's call it Z

Kess73

noodler wrote: »

??

You want people to take his first managerial spell 21 years ago into account when assessing the last 18 months?

I think he was saying that when people look at his second spell that the full 14 months of season time should be looked at rather than just the final 5 or 6 months.

Don't think he meant anything about Kenny's first spell as manager.

Luckycharms_74

Colemania wrote: »

West ham just made a club record £17 million bid for Carroll. So i guess all that talk of a loan last night was a bit wrong! I think if we don't accept it, that'll be the end of their interest in Carroll but if we are thinking of selling, we'll need to have a replacement lined up straight away. Who? I haven't the faintest idea! Ba perhaps?

Wrong :rolleyes:. Welcome to yesterday

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18995674

West Ham submit £17m for Liverpool striker Andy Carroll

By Ben Smith
BBC Sport
West Ham have stepped up their interest in Liverpool striker Andy Carroll by making a £17m bid that would break the club's transfer record.

The fresh offer would see England forward Carroll initially move on loan with a commitment to buy the 23-year-old next summer.
However, it is understood he does not view West Ham as a serious option.
The former Newcastle United player would prefer a return to the North East if forced to leave Anfield.
The Tyneside club, who retain a strong interest in the player, are monitoring the situation.
Owner Mike Ashley saw an initial bid for Carroll dismissed out of hand by Liverpool, who remain determined to secure the permanent sale of a player they bought for £35m in January 2011. The Anfield club insist they are not prepared to countenance offers below £20m for the 23-year-old.
West Ham are understood to be prepared to build their team around Carroll, but with the player indicating uncertainty about moving there, despite a strong friendship with former Newcastle team-mate Kevin Nolan, it does little to clarify his future.
The £7.5m West Ham paid Liverpool for Craig Bellamy in 2007 remains the club's transfer record, although Brescia striker Savio Nsereko agreed a deal that could potentially have been worth £9m, but he failed to trigger a number of performance-based clauses.
Jack Sullivan, son of David Sullivan, the West Ham co-owner, added to the speculation by tweeting: "Dad is working on the biggest signing in the history of the club - twice as big as anything the club have done before!"
Having indicated that Liverpool would be open to offers for Carroll, manager Brendan Rodgers insisted any criticism of the player had been unfair earlier this week.
"Andy is a terrific young player," Rodgers said. "I had a brief chat with all the lads and over the next couple of weeks I'll be able to speak to them with more confidence and on a one-to-one basis.
"There is no doubt he is a terrific talent. There has been a lot of unfair criticism aimed towards Andy. He is a player who can play in a number of styles and it was a wee bit unfair on him to say he couldn't fit into the way I would want to play.
"We've got a number of very, very talented players in the group, of which Andy is one."

Melion

Watching the Roma game now. Shelvey should be going nowhere on loan this summer, he has a big part to play. Same with Dani, will be a great option from the bench

mike65

Don't suppose anyone fancies making a 8 million bid for Aquilani

CL7

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The range of things I can do or say is X
The range of things I am reasonably entitled to do or say should I choose is a subset of X, let's call it Y
What I SHOULD do or say in order to act in my best interest is a subset of Y, let's call it Z

Fenway isn't just some multi billionaire playing with their new toy like Abramovich. They're a company and an highly successful one at that. They've made some mistakes but surely they know more about acting in their own best interest that us?

Luckycharms_74

Melion wrote: »

Watching the Roma game now. Shelvey should be going nowhere on loan this summer, he has a big part to play. Same with Dani, will be a great option from the bench

Don't forget Suzo & Sterling as potential game changers from the bench :cool:

Colemania

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

Wrong :rolleyes:. Welcome to yesterday

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18995674

But doesn't that say that the fee will be paid next season? I thought the offer they made this morning was 17 million up front?

noodler

Kess73 wrote: »

I think he was saying that when people look at his second spell that the full 14 months of season time should be looked at rather than just the final 5 or 6 months.

Don't think he meant anything about Kenny's first spell as manager.

Well, I didn't make up the post I quoted.

The full 14 months of Kenny's term were poor. Poor on the field and poor of it.

The Carling Cup trophy and FA Cup final (nor any lingering sentiment about his legendary status) should be allowed to colour that.

That doesn't mean I am pre-judging Rogers and his ability to do the job.

Turtyturd

mike65 wrote: »

Don't suppose anyone fancies making a 8 million bid for Aquilani

Not now, but I had a chat with a couple of mates and we will take him on loan for the five a side this season and pay 8 million next season if he can get a game.

Kess73

noodler wrote: »

Well, I didn't make up the post I quoted.

The full 14 months of Kenny's term were poor. Poor on the field and poor of it.

The Carling Cup trophy and FA Cup final (nor any lingering sentiment about his legendary status) should be allowed to colour that.

That doesn't mean I am pre-judging Rogers and his ability to do the job.

Utter BS. That's as bad a bit of spoofing as what comes from those who seem to claim Kenny could do no wrong as manager second time around.


The first five months that Kenny was in the job saw the club average close to two points a game from January to May. Nothing poor about that at all.

The first four months of last season saw nothing spectacular but it was not poor either. By Xmas the club was still within touching disatnce of a CL spot.

January to May last season in the league was awful, and was coupled with a very good run in the league cup and a decent run in the FA cup.

There was a decline if one looks at those three segments, but there is no way the full 14 months of season time were poor on the pitch.


No idea what you are talking about when you say you did not make up a quote as I never suggested anything along those lines, nor did I make any comment at all with regards to Rodgers and your take on him.

murpho999

If Carroll does go, which looks likely, does that mean that Bellamy is staying and will they buy some else or will Sterling make the step up?

D'Agger

noodler wrote: »

Well, I didn't make up the post I quoted.

The full 14 months of Kenny's term were poor. Poor on the field and poor of it.

That's just ridiculous.


The beginning of Kennys reign in charge was quite promising - the style of play implemented was far, far better that what we produced under Hodgson

Kess73

murpho999 wrote: »

If Carroll does go, which looks likely, does that mean that Bellamy is staying and will they buy some else or will Sterling make the step up?

If Bellamy is capable of playing one game a week, then I would keep him. If his knee is at a point where he cannot play that often anymore or that two games in a week/10 day period sees him needing three weeks to bounce back, then I would move him on rather than relying on him as attacking cover should Carroll leave.

Would be better to bring in a new player that can play when needed rather than keeping a Bellamy that cannot manage semi regular games, much as I like Bellamy as a player and as a character.

_blank_

If Carroll goes, and does well at WHU, it doesn't mean that he would have done the same at Liverpool.

It just means he's gotten out of a bad situation for him, and moved to a possibly better one.

He is a pretty one dimensional player, and Liverpool are not set up to maximise his talents. They weren't under Dalglish, and the certainly won't be under Rodgers.

If he goes to WHU, plays under Sam in a system that utilises his talents, then fair play to him and WHU for taking a punt on him and playing to his strengths.

Liverpool, with Suarez, just aren't set up like that. It's never going to be easy for Carroll in a team like that.

noodler

Kess73 wrote: »

The first five months that Kenny was in the job saw the club average close to two points a game from January to May. Nothing poor about that at all.

Ah here, so we can judge him on the first 6 months but not the last six?

Kess73 wrote: »

I think he was saying that when people look at his second spell that the full 14 months of season time should be looked at rather than just the final 5 or 6 months.

Kess73 wrote: »

There was a decline if one looks at those three segments, but there is no way the full 14 months of season time were poor on the pitch.

I disagree then. I think our league form on average, over 14 months, was poor. We can take into consideration stiffer competition etc but its difficult not to call a spade a spade.

Kess73 wrote: »

No idea what you are talking about when you say you did not make up a quote as I never suggested anything along those lines, nor did I make any comment at all with regards to Rodgers and your take on him.

It was more of a disclaimer for those who feel the love for BR is premature.

I am not getting ahead of myself about what BR will bring to the table especially now that we won't have 100m to spend.

Francie Barrett

Des wrote: »

If Carroll goes, and does well at WHU, it doesn't mean that he would have done the same at Liverpool.

It just means he's gotten out of a bad situation for him, and moved to a possibly better one.

He is a pretty one dimensional player, and Liverpool are not set up to maximise his talents. They weren't under Dalglish, and the certainly won't be under Rodgers.

If he goes to WHU, plays under Sam in a system that utilises his talents, then fair play to him and WHU for taking a punt on him and playing to his strengths.

Liverpool, with Suarez, just aren't set up like that. It's never going to be easy for Carroll in a team like that.

You've nailed it.

If you're willing to set the team up around him and play to his strengths, I think he can be a decent Premier League player and nab 15 goals a season.