Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

Kess73

noodler wrote: »

Ah here, so we can judge him on the first 6 months but not the last six?

I disagree then. I think our league form on average, over 14 months, was poor. We can take into consideration stiffer competition etc but its difficult not to call a spade a spade.

It was more of a disclaimer for those who feel the love for BR is premature.

I am not getting ahead of myself about what BR will bring to the table especially now that we won't have 100m to spend.

Where did I say that he can be judged on the first six months but not on the last six months? The whole period gets looked at and when one does that they see that some was good, some was bloody awful, but that it was not poor for all of it.

You said that our on pitch form was poor for all of Kenny's second term as manager. It clearly was not poor for all of his second term and I simply broke it down into sections to show where I thought it was decent to good, average and finally poor.

I think there was a steady decline during his time as manager and that the sections I broke it up into shows that decline, but there is no way I see the entire spell as being poor on the pitch because it simply was not.


As for adding a "disclaimer" about Rodgers........well that is up to you but it just seems odd to add a "disclaimer" to a person who was not talking about Rodgers and who has not used anyone's comments regarding Rodgers, pro or anti, as a stick to beat them with because it is far far too early to judge Rodgers as a Liverpool manager.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

Ah here, so we can judge him on the first 6 months but not the last six?

Oh my god, you can't possibly be missing the point being made as badly as it appears?

Mr Alan

If, as is being reported, City are keen to offload Dzeko in order to bring in Van Persie - we should be doing everything in our power to try & land him if he'd be interested. Especially if we're getting rid of Carroll.

Forward options of Suarez, Borini, Dzeko & another would be decent.

Kess73

Sahin to Liverpool on loan?

Mr Alan

Yes please.

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

Yes please.

It was just mentioned on 90elf (a German station) and they were one of the first media outlets to mention Suarez to Liverpool before it hit the mainstream media and I think they were the first with Hazard to Chelsea and also Chelsea's bid for Hulk.


What was mentioned on the show is that Real are looking to loan him out, possibly with an option to buy, to a big EPL club with Arsenal, Liverpool, and Spurs being named in the piece as the clubs that are meant to have been in talks with Real.

Leiva

Kess73 wrote: »

Sahin to Liverpool on loan?

They said big PL club and the link seems to be with Arsenal

Kess73

Leiva wrote: »

They said big PL club and the link seems to be with Arsenal

German media is linking him to three EPL clubs.


Given Jose's relationships with both Rodgers and AVP it is not so far fetched that he would be happy to loan to player to either.

Leiva

Mr Alan wrote: »

Yes please.

More like pretty pretty please .

Kerrigooney

According to Wikipedia (I know,I know) he`s already joined Arsenal on loan for the season.

whatawaster

If Sahin is willing to go to PL and Real are willing to let him go, I would be amazed if he doesn't end up at Spurs as part of the Modric deal

Melion

Mr Alan wrote: »

If, as is being reported, City are keen to offload Dzeko in order to bring in Van Persie - we should be doing everything in our power to try & land him if he'd be interested. Especially if we're getting rid of Carroll.

Forward options of Suarez, Borini, Dzeko & another would be decent.

He would have absolutely no interest
We couldn't afford his fee or wages

Kess73

Kerrigooney wrote: »

According to Wikipedia (I know,I know) he`s already joined Arsenal on loan for the season.

Wiki last season had a piece on Eden Hazard's page about how Manager Kess brought Hazard to Liverpool in the boot of a car.

Kess73

whatawaster wrote: »

If Sahin is willing to go to PL and Real are willing to let him go, I would be amazed if he doesn't end up at Spurs as part of the Modric deal

It is a loan deal that is being spoken of.

Leiva

Kess73 wrote: »

Wiki last season had a piece on Eden Hazard's page about how Manager Kess brought Hazard to Liverpool in the boot of a car.

Guilty as charged your honor :pac:

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

If, as is being reported, City are keen to offload Dzeko in order to bring in Van Persie - we should be doing everything in our power to try & land him if he'd be interested. Especially if we're getting rid of Carroll.

Forward options of Suarez, Borini, Dzeko & another would be decent.

Just curious, and for the sake of arguemnet assuming that City would sell to us, how much do you think he would cost or how high do you think the club should go for him in terms of transfer fee?

whatawaster

Kess73 wrote: »

It is a loan deal that is being spoken of.

Even so, circumstances give Spurs a big edge on other teams

Kess73

whatawaster wrote: »

Even so, circumstances give Spurs a big edge on other teams

It would appear that Rodgers and Jose are pretty tight as well.

Melion

Kess73 wrote: »

Just curious, and for the sake of arguemnet assuming that City would sell to us, how much do you think he would cost or how high do you think the club should go for him in terms of transfer fee?

He would cost at least 25m

Kerrigooney

Leiva wrote: »

Guilty as charged your honor :pac:

Good work

Kess73

Melion wrote: »

He would cost at least 25m

if you mean in £, then that would be my thinking as well.


If we had that kind of money to spend on a striker, then I would be trying for Welliton and not Dzeko.

Very fast, strong, excellent with either foot, great close control, can play anywhere across the front line but best as the focal point of an attack, and excellent at linking up and interchanging with technical players. Plus the small matter of being one hell of a finisher.

slingerz

Melion wrote: »

He would cost at least 25m

I reckon Dzecko would be more along the £18 million mark especially with number of players that City have in that position

LuckyLloyd

noodler wrote: »

The full 14 months of Kenny's term were poor. Poor on the field and poor of it

To be perfectly frank that is utter bollocks, and I think you know it too.

missingtime

Kess73 wrote: »

if you mean in £, then that would be my thinking as well.


If we had that kind of money to spend on a striker, then I would be trying for Welliton and not Dzeko.

Very fast, strong, excellent with either foot, great close control, can play anywhere across the front line but best as the focal point of an attack, and excellent at linking up and interchanging with technical players. Plus the small matter of being one hell of a finisher.

The level of confidence I have in our scouting and player purchasing we'd probably end up with a load of these

billymitchell

Why would we sell Carroll and bring in Dzeko? Makes no sense!!

Leiva

billymitchell wrote: »

Why would we sell Carroll and bring in Dzeko? Makes no sense!!

For real ??

Chucky the tree

billymitchell wrote: »

Why would we sell Carroll and bring in Dzeko? Makes no sense!!

hugely upgrading your main striker makes a lot of sense actually.

Kerrigooney

billymitchell wrote: »

Why would we sell Carroll and bring in Dzeko? Makes no sense!!

Agreed. If Rodgers thinks that Carroll wont suit his style of play then surely he`ll think the same of Dzeko.

It`ll never happen.

billymitchell

Chucky the tree wrote: »

hugely upgrading your main striker makes a lot of sense actually.

But Dzeko is pony, I wouldn't class him as an upgrade.

Chucky the tree

billymitchell wrote: »

But Dzeko is pony, I wouldn't class him as an upgrade.

Luckily your not in charge then I suppose.

Mr Alan

Kess73 wrote: »

Just curious, and for the sake of arguemnet assuming that City would sell to us, how much do you think he would cost or how high do you think the club should go for him in terms of transfer fee?

Around £20m. Something between 18 & 22, with Kuyts wages offered.

billymitchell

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Luckily your not in charge then I suppose.

Seriously, did I miss something and Dzeko is now classed as a good player? Even my Man City supporting friends think he is pretty average.

G.K.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Around £20m. Something between 18 & 22, with Kuyts wages offered.

I doubt City would want to take a £7m+ loss on him.

Chucky the tree

billymitchell wrote: »

Seriously, did I miss something and Dzeko is now classed as a good player? Even my Man City supporting friends think he is pretty average.

Maybe you missed watching him play? 66 goals in 111 appearances in the Bundesliga and even managed 14 goals in 28 appearances last season for City. That's the kind of averageness Andy Carroll could only dream about.

Francie Barrett

Spending £20 million on a player? What planet are you guys on?

billymitchell

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Maybe you missed watching him play? 66 goals in 111 appearances in the Bundesliga and even managed 14 goals in 28 appearances last season for City. That's the kind of averageness Andy Carroll could only dream about.

Ok, just leaving Andy Carroll out of this for a second, I'll agree he has been very poor for us and we do need to replace him and get a decent striker in. But if you were to spend £20m+ on a striker, would Dzeko be your choice? I just think(well, hope) we can do better than Dzeko if we are to go out and spend 20m on a striker.

Mr Alan

G.K. wrote: »

I doubt City would want to take a £7m+ loss on him.

They won't have much choice if they're looking to move him on to be fair. He's not set the world alight since his move. His stock was higher when they paid their fee for him. So it's either hang onto him, miss out on RVP & let Dzeko's value & reputation diminish further while he plays a bit part role for them, or move him on.

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Spending £20 million on a player? What planet are you guys on?

The planet where we sell a striker for in the region of £20m & are looking for a replacement?

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

Around £20m. Something between 18 & 22, with Kuyts wages offered.

Think that is a bit cheap to be honest, but say you are right. Would you not prefer someone like Huntelaar or similar who would be in the same price range?

I think Dzeko is an excellent finisher, but I reckon the money it would take to get him would bring in a player that can finish as well as him but that has much more to their overall game.


Dzeko money for me would mean going after Welliton, but if I wanted a player that is more or less a finisher without an awful lot outstanding in the rest of his overall game, then I would take Huntelaar over Dzeko every time as he is far more mobile and his link up play is much better.


Don't think we will be going after such a player though as I reckon Borini will be our starting striker come August and that he will more often than not be the focal point of our attacks. I think we will go in for a player (or two) that can play as a wideforward as well as in a CAM/Support striker, as such a player would be capable of giving attacking cover up front.

Chucky the tree

billymitchell wrote: »

Ok, just leaving Andy Carroll out of this for a second, I'll agree he has been very poor for us and we do need to replace him and get a decent striker in. But if you were to spend £20m+ on a striker, would Dzeko be your choice? I just think(well, hope) we can do better than Dzeko if we are to go out and spend 20m on a striker.

I'd certainly but happy with it if we didn't break the bank on wages. I think he's a very good player. Hasn't been given a great chance a City but last season he still managed 1 goal every 2 games. I wouldn't know enough about other leagues and the players to say Dzeko would be the best choice though.

Huntalaar over Dzecko every day of the week.

The man is a goal machine and he and Suarez have had a fantastic partnership before.

If he signed I'd be seriously excited about the upcoming season.

MD1990

Dzeko would be a waste of money for 20M
why would we sell Carroll & buy Dzeko there similar players

missingtime

Kess73 wrote: »

Don't think we will be going after such a player though as I reckon Borini will be our starting striker come August and that he will more often than not be the focal point of our attacks. I think we will go in for a player (or two) that can play as a wideforward as well as in a CAM/Support striker, as such a player would be capable of giving attacking cover up front.

I've a feeling this is whats going to happen as well. We wont have out and out goal scorers rather multiple players who can score goals.

Chucky the tree

MD1990 wrote: »

Dzeko would be a waste of money for 20M
why would we sell Carroll & buy Dzeko there similar players

They are both tall. That's mainly where the similarities end. It's like saying we shouldn't sign Imbrahimovic because he is similar to Carroll.

G.K.

Mr Alan wrote: »

They won't have much choice if they're looking to move him on to be fair. He's not set the world alight since his move. His stock was higher when they paid their fee for him. So it's either hang onto him, miss out on RVP & let Dzeko's value & reputation diminish further while he plays a bit part role for them, or move him on.

Fair point.

Kess73

missingtime wrote: »

I've a feeling this is whats going to happen as well. We wont have out and out goal scorers rather multiple players who can score goals.

I think Borini might surprise a few and become our main goalscorer tbh. I would struggle to think of another young forward with his ability that we could have gotten for the same money, and I think that with the right players around him that he will have a good first season but may go on to be a very prolific player within a season or two.

Said something like this next bit just after Borini joined. Carroll managed 9 goals in all comps last season, I reckon that Borini will have that figure matched or beaten by the end of the Boxing day game.

MD1990

Chucky the tree wrote: »

They are both tall. That's mainly where the similarities end. It's like saying we shouldn't sign Imbrahimovic because he is similar to Carroll.

Dzeko is not quick & not that good techinically better than Carroll though yes
Ibrahimovic is miles ahead of the two of them

Morzadec

Seriously the mind boggles how some people think Dzeko is not an upgrade on Carroll. He's a definite step up.

Dzeko is a top striker, who will score you about 1 in 2. Maybe he looks a bit worse at City because they have so many other class players, but believe me he's a very good striker.

Carroll meanwhile is a 1 in 4 striker imo.

I would be happy enough if we got Dzeko, as he is a proven goalscorer. But I don't think we're going to be in for him. We possibly need a more flexible attacking player rather than an out and out striker.

At the moment I think Rodgers is probably looking at his starting frontline as:

X---Borini---Suarez

So it's the X that we need to fill, preferably with the ability to play in the centre too.

Would Gaston Ramirez be able in the front 3?

Morzadec

MD1990 wrote: »

Dzeko is not quick & not that good techinically better than Carroll though yes
Ibrahimovic is miles ahead of the two of them

His finishing and ability to get into the right positions are vastly superior to Carroll's imo

MD1990

the Dzeko at Wolfsburg would be a great signing
the Dzeko at City wouldn't although his goalscoring record isnt too bad

cson

MD1990 wrote: »

the Dzeko at Wolfsburg would be a great signing
the Dzeko at City wouldn't although his goalscoring record isnt too bad

The Dzeko at City wouldn't even though you admit his 'goalscoring record isn't too bad'? He has a 1 in 2 ratio ffs. Only in the soccer forum. Do not apply unless you can provide instant gratification EPL style.