Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

MD1990

cson wrote: »

The Dzeko at City wouldn't even though you admit his 'goalscoring record isn't too bad'? He has a 1 in 2 ratio ffs. Only in the soccer forum. Do not apply unless you can provide instant gratification EPL style.

City create like 20 chances a game
his general play for City has been poor thats why he is 4th choice striker
ppl are too obsessed with stats these days
for about 12 Million he would not be a bad signing
20 Million would be too much

cson

Do you think Wolfsburg created 20 chances a game?

Actually wait, sure the Bundesliga is ****e anyway, anyone would score 66. :rolleyes:

murpho999

MD1990 wrote: »

City create like 20 chances a game
his general play for City has been poor thats why he is 4th choice striker
ppl are too obsessed with stats these days

I would argue that only 3 out of 5 people are so inclined.

Mr Alan

Kess73 wrote: »

Think that is a bit cheap to be honest, but say you are right. Would you not prefer someone like Huntelaar or similar who would be in the same price range?

I think Dzeko is an excellent finisher, but I reckon the money it would take to get him would bring in a player that can finish as well as him but that has much more to their overall game.


Dzeko money for me would mean going after Welliton, but if I wanted a player that is more or less a finisher without an awful lot outstanding in the rest of his overall game, then I would take Huntelaar over Dzeko every time as he is far more mobile and his link up play is much better.


Don't think we will be going after such a player though as I reckon Borini will be our starting striker come August and that he will more often than not be the focal point of our attacks. I think we will go in for a player (or two) that can play as a wideforward as well as in a CAM/Support striker, as such a player would be capable of giving attacking cover up front.

I know **** all about Welliton so I can't possibly comment, but if we had a choice between Huntelaar or Dzeko for £20m, I'd take Dzeko I think. Don't get me wrong, I'd be delighted with either. I think Dzeko has a bit more to his all round game than Huntelaar.

smileyj1987

If we are selling Carroll , it would be Van Huntelaar or Cavani would be my main target . It all depends on does Rodgers feel we need to strengthen elsewhere .

osnola ibax

I still think we need centre half cover, not sure about coates / carragher.

MD1990

cson wrote: »

Do you think Wolfsburg created 20 chances a game?

Actually wait, sure the Bundesliga is ****e anyway, anyone would score 66. :rolleyes:

i said the Dzeko from Wolfsburg would be a great signing
we couldn't afford his wages anyway

killwill

MD1990 wrote: »

City create like 20 chances a game
his general play for City has been poor thats why he is 4th choice striker
ppl are too obsessed with stats these days
for about 12 Million he would not be a bad signing
20 Million would be too much

Dzeko is in a tough position at City. He is only 4th choice because of the quality of Aguero, Tevez and Ballotelli. He is a great striker and would walk into most top european clubs first 11.

klose

smileyj1987 wrote: »

If we are selling Carroll , it would be Van Huntelaar or Cavani would be my main target . It all depends on does Rodgers feel we need to strengthen elsewhere .

Id prefer messi tbh

G.K.

Hoilett's moved to QPR. Surprised Liverpool didn't move for him.

Washington Irving

Huntelaar's wiki page says he's dead

Gbear

killwill wrote: »

Dzeko is in a tough position at City. He is only 4th choice because of the quality of Aguero, Tevez and Ballotelli. He is a great striker and would walk into most top european clubs first 11.

I think that speaks volumes about him.

Obviously Aguero is no.1 but Tevez and Ballotelli have done their utmost to get deselected with their shenanigans and if Dzeko can't get in ahead of them it must be because he's considerably worse.

If Mancini is choosing Balotelli and Tevez, despite the fact the former usually gets sent off and the latter doesn't seem to give a ****, over Dzeko, then there must be something wrong with him.

smileyj1987

whippedcream wrote: »

Id prefer messi tbh

But could he do it on a cold night in stoker :p:p

klose

osnola ivax wrote: »

I still think we need centre half cover, not sure about coates / carragher.

Coates fine as 3rd choice pushing for a starting position, carra will do as 4th because we don't have much dosh to be spending on backup centre backs even at that Wilson and sama are there too, if we were looking for players across the back id be looking at left back, Enrique has no cover to my knowledge?

martingriff

MD1990 wrote: »

City create like 20 chances a game
his general play for City has been poor thats why he is 4th choice striker
ppl are too obsessed with stats these days
for about 12 Million he would not be a bad signing
20 Million would be too much

He was not 4th choice because he was crap he was 4th choice due to Tevez (before and after he came back) Aguero, and the mad one Balottelli. Considering he did not start many games the goals to minute ratio was very good. He is also very strong can hold up a ball and take player out (I mean attract them to him not foul them)

Boom_Bap

G.K. wrote: »

Hoilett's moved to QPR. Surprised Liverpool didn't move for him.

I'd say QPR started stacking bags of cash in front of him and told him to say 'when'.

I dont get the hype about Hoilett anyway, yes he can be decent at times. But he can be useless most times.

Chucky the tree

Gbear wrote: »

I think that speaks volumes about him.

Obviously Aguero is no.1 but Tevez and Ballotelli have done their utmost to get deselected with their shenanigans and if Dzeko can't get in ahead of them it must be because he's considerably worse.

If Mancini is choosing Balotelli and Tevez, despite the fact the former usually gets sent off and the latter doesn't seem to give a ****, over Dzeko, then there must be something wrong with him.

Dzeko started more matches last year in the PL than Ballotelli and Tevez.

amiable

Hint hint

https://twitter.com/luis16suarez/status/228562051755307008/photo/1

smileyj1987

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Dzeko started more matches last year in the PL than Ballotelli and Tevez.

Maybe because Mancini knows he won't get himself sent off or take an extended holiday when it suits him . :cool:

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

I know **** all about Welliton so I can't possibly comment, but if we had a choice between Huntelaar or Dzeko for £20m, I'd take Dzeko I think. Don't get me wrong, I'd be delighted with either. I think Dzeko has a bit more to his all round game than Huntelaar.

We will have to disagree as to whether Huntelaar or Dzeko has the better all round game, but I think it is safe to say that either would be a massive upgrade in terms of goal threat if they were to arrive at Liverpool as both are quality finishers.

noodler

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

To be perfectly frank that is utter bollocks, and I think you know it too.

Leaguewise?

And compared to the average over the last 10 seasons?

I'd have to say the league form during Kenny's reign on a whole was poor.

Tbh, the only reason I think people are arguing otherwise is because our aims and expectations have been lowered. If you want to compare Kenny's league form to Roy's then obviously (without having done the math myself) I am sure it will come out as better. I don't think Roy's 6 months should be used as the comparative benchmark though.

If someone shows me that the average points per league game under Kenny was not substantially lower than that of recent seasons then I will submit.



I'd love if we signed Dzeko. I have only seen about 6 months of him at Wolfsburg and last season at City and Bosnia but I really like him. Buying players from EPL competitors is always rather hypothetical.

amiable

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I'd say QPR started stacking bags of cash in front of him and told him to say 'when'.

I dont get the hype about Hoilett anyway, yes he can be decent at times. But he can be useless most times.

I doubt QPR are paying more than Liverpool

Kess73

G.K. wrote: »

Hoilett's moved to QPR. Surprised Liverpool didn't move for him.

Amiable had that move spot on before it was mentioned in the press.

G.K.

amiable wrote: »

Hint hint

https://twitter.com/luis16suarez/status/228562051755307008/photo/1

Who is that with him?

amiable

Kess73 wrote: »

Amiable had that move spot on before it was mentioned in the press.

I think I'll quit while I'm ahead

Kess73

G.K. wrote: »

Who is that with him?

Ramirez

Knex*

noodler wrote: »

Leaguewise?

And compared to the average over the last 10 seasons?

I'd have to say the league form during Kenny's reign on a whole was poor.

Tbh, the only reason I think people are arguing otherwise is because our aims and expectations have been lowered. If you want to compare Kenny's league form to Roy's then obviously (without having done the math myself) I am sure it will come out as better. I don't think Roy's 6 months should be used as the comparative benchmark though.

If someone shows me that the average points per league game under Kenny was not substantially lower than that of recent seasons then I will submit.



I'd love if we signed Dzeko. I have only seen about 6 months of him at Wolfsburg and last season at City and Bosnia but I really like him. Buying players from EPL competitors is always rather hypothetical.

From when he took over the year before last, to when we finished that season, we were 3rd, if not very close to 2nd, in the league.

It was that form that saw him get the three year contract. I really don't see how you can outright say Kenny was poor in the league for 14 months. Its mental.

Glico Man

G.K. wrote: »

Who is that with him?

Gaston Ramirez

Kess73

amiable wrote: »

I think I'll quit while I'm ahead

Well we will have to see how your other comment about Bellamy plays out first

amiable

G.K. wrote: »

Who is that with him?

Gaston Ramirez

amiable

Kess73 wrote: »

Well we will have to see how your other comment about Bellamy plays out first

Haha, they definitely want him. Even the club admitted it on Sky so I think I got that right too

Kerrigooney

G.K. wrote: »

Who is that with him?

Luis Suarez :pac::pac::pac:

Sorry...couldn`t resist.

It`s Ramirez isn`t it?

Phoenix Park

Kess73 wrote: »

German media is linking him to three EPL clubs.


Given Jose's relationships with both Rodgers and AVP it is not so far fetched that he would be happy to loan to player to either.

I thought Jose and Villas-Boas were no longer on speaking terms. I definitely read that a few months ago, can't remember where. Probably here

Knex*

Phoenix Park wrote: »

I thought Jose and Villas-Boas were no longer on speaking terms. I definitely read that a few months ago, can't remember where. Probably here

Fantastic. Our year.

Kess73

amiable wrote: »

Haha, they definitely want him. Even the club admitted it on Sky so I think I got that right too

Makes you the King ITK of the forum. The Rigger/AC is dead, long live King Amiable.

amiable

Kess73 wrote: »

Makes you the King ITK of the forum. The Rigger/AC is dead, long live King Amiable.

That's my lot

amiable

Has anyone seen much of Abel Hernández play for Palermo?

Kess73

amiable wrote: »

Has anyone seen much of Abel Hernández play for Palermo?

Is he being linked again?

We were linked to him the January we got Carroll, as well as January just gone and I think again in June.

amiable

Kess73 wrote: »

Is he being linked again?

We were linked to him the January we got Carroll, as well as January just gone and I think again in June.

There's a blogger suggesting that Liverpool should consider him if Carroll is sold.
I've not seen any real link to be honest.

amiable

Joe Allen or Yann M'Vila ?

Kess73

amiable wrote: »

There's a blogger suggesting that Liverpool should consider him if Carroll is sold.
I've not seen any real link to be honest.

He is a good young player, but I think that Borini will turn out to be a better player for the same position. Uruguay really do have a hell of a lot of promising young players in and around their first team squad though.

Kess73

amiable wrote: »

Joe Allen or Yann M'Vila ?

Very different players in terms of style, but if you are asking which player is the better if both were on top form, then I would have to go with M'Vila. I think he matches Allen in terms of technique, positioning, control etc., but is miles ahead in terms of strength, size, aggression, and pace.

I think Allen has the calmer temperament though.

amiable

Kess73 wrote: »

Very different players in terms of style, but if you are asking which player is the better if both were on top form, then I would have to go with M'Vila. I think he matches Allen in terms of technique, positioning, control etc., but is miles ahead in terms of strength, size, aggression, and pace.

It was more who do people think would be a better fit.
I'd go with M'Vila myself and reports from france that Rennes want approx £12 million for him.
That's less than what Swansea want

Kess73

amiable wrote: »

It was more who do people think would be a better fit.
I'd go with M'Vila myself and reports from france that Rennes want approx £12 million for him.
That's less than what Swansea want

My answer was based around fitting into the LFC midfield.

But having gone for M'Vila over Allen, I would then go for Moussa Sissoko over M'Vila both in terms of being a fit for the LFC team and also as the better long term prospect.

That's if we are confining the list of options to players in and around the £15m or less, and also who currently are at clubs that LFC would be seen as an upgrade to.

Knex*

What happened in the last 6 months to a year that has made people drop the 20m valuation of M'Vila and see his reputation fall, although not significantly, but enough to see the likes of Sissoko be regarded as the better player/prospect?

Kess73

Knex. wrote: »

What happened in the last 6 months to a year that has made people drop the 20m valuation of M'Vila and see his reputation fall, although not significantly, but enough to see the likes of Sissoko be regarded as the better player/prospect?

Cannot answer for anyone else, but I have never rated M'Vila as a better prospect than Moussa Sissoko, and a trawl through my posts over the past few years has me rating Sissoko as the better prospect.

As to his valuation falling, well he did not sign the contract extension that was put in front of him last month (he still has until 2015 on his current contract though) and his form last season was a bit patchy, so I imagine a combination of the two had an impact on the price many see him going for. Also the French league alone has quite a few players that play in the same position that are of similar or better quality so more choice will have a knock on effect on his price as well imho.

Knex*

Kess73 wrote: »

Cannot answer for anyone else, but I have never rated M'Vila as a better prospect than Moussa Sissoko, and a trawl through my posts over the past few years has me rating Sissoko as the better prospect.

As to his valuation falling, well he did not sign the contract extension that was put in front of him last month (he still has until 2015 on his current contract though) and his form last season was a bit patchy, so I imagine a combination of the two had an impact on the price many see him going for. Also the French league alone has quite a few players that play in the same position that are of similar or better quality so more choice will have a knock on effect on his price as well imho.

Don't know where I got the impression that you had, until recent months, thought M'Vila to be the better player. I remember last year, especially around the time France played England that he was so highly spoken about here.

Even though I've only seen him when he played for France I always got the notion that he had the potential to be almost world class (whatever that is ). I wasn't really aware of his slide in form last season tbh.

That Moussa Sissoko sounds like an outstanding prospect altogether. Although he missed out on the french squad for the Euros did he not? Actually, I don't think I've ever seen him play for France at all tbh.

amiable

Kess73 wrote: »

Makes you the King ITK of the forum. The Rigger/AC is dead, long live King Amiable.

http://twitpic.com/acch7x

Kess73

Knex. wrote: »

Don't know where I got the impression that you had, until recent months, thought M'Vila to be the better player. I remember last year, especially around the time France played England that he was so highly spoken about here.

Even though I've only seen him when he played for France I always got the notion that he had the potential to be almost world class (whatever that is ). I wasn't really aware of his slide in form last season tbh.

That Moussa Sissoko sounds like an outstanding prospect altogether. Although he missed out on the french squad for the Euros did he not? Actually, I don't think I've ever seen him play for France at all tbh.

I do rate M'vila quite highly, but I can think of three or four players, who would play in a similar position, that would cost less than him that I rate as better players.

I think that M'Vila does have the potential to be a top class player and that he already has the ability that makes him a very good player right now.


You would be doing well if you had managed to catch Sissoko playing for France as he only has three caps to date. I think one has to look at the list of players that France actually has to chose from for the CDM and CM roles to understand why even an outstanding prospect like Sissoko can be left out.

For the CDM role they have Matuidi, M'vila, Diarra, and Gonalons available. Up until a year or so ago they had the likes of Toulalan.

As such players like Sissoko and Capoue can end up slipping through the cracks.

Plus Sissoko is not an out and out CDM, he is more of a traditional CM at this point (as in he can play box to box in the truest sense) so in terms of a CM slot he gets the likes of Nasri, Cabaye, Valbuena etc all coming in for CM or CAM slots.

rossie1977

noodler wrote: »

I disagree then. I think our league form on average, over 14 months, was poor. We can take into consideration stiffer competition etc but its difficult not to call a spade a spade.

well if the league form on average over 14 months was poor then how would you describe it under hodgson

Pl: 20 W:7 D:4 L:9 F:24 A:27 Pts: 25

the away record under roy was
Pl:10 W:1 D:2 L:7 F:7 A:19 Pts 5

under kenny (season 2010-11)
Pl: 18 W:10 D:3 L:5 F:35 A:14 Pts: 33

away record to close the season
Pl: 9 w:4 D:1 L:4 F:15 A:11 Pts: 13

last season before lucas injury (and suarez stuff) they were well ahead of where they were under hodgson the season before
Pl: 13 w:6 d:5 L:2 F:17 A:12 Pts: 23

away record
Pl:6 w:4 D:0 L:2 F:8 A:6 Pt; 12

for the last 20 games of last season yes they were on a par with hodgsons team in terms of league form (and poor) but unlike hodgsons team they were winning cup games not getting knocked out at home by 4th tier sides