Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

Nuri Sahin

Neil Jones from the Liverpool Echo..

#LFC have denied that a deal has been struck with West Ham for Andy Carroll.

djPSB

suso30fernandez ‏@suso30fernandez
Looking for houses in Liverpool...staying at @jose3enrique3.No words for that...more than a person..#thingsyouneverforget

looks like he's planning on staying around for a while.

missingtime

Possible good news!

Looking for houses in Liverpool...staying at @jose3enrique3.No words for that...more than a person..#thingsyouneverforget -- suso30fernandez (@suso30fernandez)

NEDDURC

I'd say it must be close. Probably don't want to say a price is agreed until the player actually agrees terms aswell. Sounds like Carroll would like to hold out for Newcastle if possible.

I think it's a reasonable deal.

If nothing else you've got to commend BR for being decisive. Lets hope he's as decisive in terms of bringing in some players now. He did say approx 4 out and 4 in. If we can get Dempsey, Allen and Ramierez I'd be reasonably happy to start the season that way. Could really do with another striker though.

LuckyLloyd

rarnes1 wrote: »

Didnt Rodgers say that Carroll would not be loaned out

Full of BS buck.

Once again we are getting rode in deals.

I hope Carroll rams in 20 goals this season.

Basically, it's hard for us to feel good about this deal in a year's time. If they are to stay up, he'll have to score goals for them and we'll be wondering what might have been. And if he struggles and they go down, then we'll have him back only this time worth a lot less. Not good.

Need to do a lot of business in the next few weeks to even stand still in comparison to last year's squad strength.

amiable

Blatter wrote: »

daithijjj wrote: »

Its on BBC world service, 2m fee, 17m if they stay up. He might not want to leave but Kevin Nolan must be in his ear.

AFAIK Carroll has the same agent as Sam Allardyce as well. I doubt negotiations would have got this far if Carroll wasn't open to a move there.

Mark Curtis

Blatter

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Basically, it's hard for us to feel good about this deal in a year's time. If they are to stay up, he'll have to score goals for them and we'll be wondering what might have been. And if he struggles and they go down, then we'll have him back only this time worth a lot less. Not good.

Need to do a lot of business in the next few weeks to even stand still in comparison to last year's squad strength.

Ah come on now Lloyd, it's not that black and white. If he ends up at West Ham, they could easily end up staying up with him scoring ~10 goals and that would be a great deal for Liverpool then. I actually think that's what's most likely to happen. Andy Carroll isn't a £19m striker and I do think West Ham have a very decent chance of staying up, so all in all it's a pretty good deal imo.

NEDDURC

Blatter wrote: »

Ah come on now Lloyd, it's not that black and white. If he ends up at West Ham, they could easily end up staying up with him scoring ~10 goals and that would be a great deal for Liverpool then. I actually think that's what's most likely to happen. Andy Carroll isn't a £19m striker and I do think West Ham have a very decent chance of staying up, so all in all it's a pretty good deal imo.

If we replace Maxi, Kuyt and Carroll who all played alot off the bench last year with 3/4 definite starters then the squad will have improved. Lets just be patient. I does appear that time is against BR at the moment. He's trying to implement a new system while changing around the squad quiet alot and with alot of players being away.
I think we'll have to wait until Christmas for all these changes to settle down fully.

Morzadec

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Basically, it's hard for us to feel good about this deal in a year's time. If they are to stay up, he'll have to score goals for them and we'll be wondering what might have been. And if he struggles and they go down, then we'll have him back only this time worth a lot less. Not good.

Need to do a lot of business in the next few weeks to even stand still in comparison to last year's squad strength.

Don't agree. West Ham don't need him to be amazing to stay up - he'll be similar to what Kevin Davies was for Bolton under Allardyce.

I think what is likely to happen is that Carroll will go there and do relatively well, playing for a team that plays to his strengths and score maybe 10-15 league goals, with West Ham finishing on 40-something points and avoiding relegation.

As has been mentioned before, if he goes somewhere else and becomes a success that doesn't mean he would definitely have been a success here.

I certainly won't be kicking myself in this scenario when we get £17m for a player who was not going to fit into our plans and imo is not good enough as a striker if we're to retain aims of getting into the Champions League.

ctrl-alt-delete

If a club spend £35 Million on a player I'd expect them to have a bit more about them to at least give the lad a fair crack of the whip, I know the main people behind the deal may well be gone but Carroll is being well and truly shafted here.

In fairness to him he was finally settling into the squad and there was a remarkable turnaround in his performances towards the end of the season, there are other players at the club not pulling their weight for the pounds that were spent on them that should be subject to this kind of treatment first.

I'm shocked Rodgers will not be giving him a chance other than what he has played pre-season. If I were Carroll I would be holding out for something else anyways, he is better than trying to keep West Ham up.

LuckyLloyd

Blatter wrote: »

Ah come on now Lloyd, it's not that black and white. If he ends up at West Ham, they could easily end up staying up with him scoring ~10 goals and that would be a great deal for Liverpool then. I actually think that's what's most likely to happen. Andy Carroll isn't a £19m striker and I do think West Ham have a very decent chance of staying up, so all in all it's a pretty good deal imo.

If we knew Andy Carroll was going to score 10 or more goals this season I have no idea why we would be selling him tbh.

Chucky the tree

Gives another chance to room with Nolan. God I hope it's true.

LuckyLloyd

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

If a club spend £35 Million on a player I'd expect them to have a bit more about them to at least give the lad a fair crack of the whip, I know the main people behind the deal may well be gone but Carroll is being well and truly shafted here.

In fairness to him he was finally settling into the squad and there was a remarkable turnaround in his performances towards the end of the season, there are other players at the club not pulling their weight for the pounds that were spent on them that should be subject to this kind of treatment first.

I'm shocked Rodgers will not be giving him a chance other than what he has played pre-season. If I were Carroll I would be holding out for something else anyways, he is better than trying to keep West Ham up.

Wonderful culture being built here - sack managers who get you to multiple cup finals; welcome useless feckers back into the squad; make no effort to keep superb servants who contributed in our biggest moments last year; flog off young players who finally looked like they were coming good; have one of our most talented kids thoroughly disillusioned;

Ah well.

murpho999

Amazing, for the last year Andy "£35m" Carroll has caused debate on this thread.

We all agree he's not worth that fee, if he's good enough is debateable.

Now, we can get out him on loan, £2m up front and maybe £17m in 12 months and posters are up in arms saying it's bad deal?

I really don't see how it is.

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Wonderful culture being built here - sack managers who get you to multiple cup finals; welcome useless feckers back into the squad; make no effort to keep superb servants who contributed in our biggest moments last year; flog off young players who finally looked like they were coming good; have one of our most talented kids thoroughly disillusioned;

Ah well.

Don't forget the last but most important - have deluded fans.

barone

Makes no odds if club agree loan with clause to buy if hammers stay up..
If the big man wont sign for them permanently

LuckyLloyd

murpho999 wrote: »

Amazing, for the last year Andy "£35m" Carroll has caused debate on this thread.

We all agree he's not worth that fee, if he's good enough is debateable.

Now, we can get out him on loan, £2m up front and maybe £17m in 12 months and posters are up in arms saying it's bad deal?

I really don't see how it is.

He struggled for most of last season, but he finally looked like it was coming together for him. Who are we brining in to replace him? How can we be sure the replacement will be more productive?

Similarly to the Joe Allen nonsense - why spend money on an overpriced British player when we could just plug Jordan Henderson in there and see what happens?

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't imo.

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Wonderful culture being built here - sack managers who get you to multiple cup finals; welcome useless feckers back into the squad; make no effort to keep superb servants who contributed in our biggest moments last year; flog off young players who finally looked like they were coming good; have one of our most talented kids thoroughly disillusioned;

Ah well.

Dirk Kuyt was on £90,000 a week. That's pay fitting for a vital first team player, not the bit-part performer he had become. Likewise Maxi.
Only a mad-man would have given Aurelio a new contract.
Maxi was also on a fortune, wished to leave, and is coming towards the end of his career.

These were three moves that had to be made.

I agree with you about Cole.

£19 million is significantly over Carroll's true worth and if West Ham stay up, which I think they will, then this is an excellent deal.

Morzadec

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If we knew Andy Carroll was going to score 10 or more goals this season I have no idea why we would be selling him tbh.

Maybe cos we don't know he would score 10 goals this season because we would not build our team around him because I would hope we have higher aspirations than being a club who builds their team around a player of Carroll's standard.

Did you watch Carroll play alongside Suarez last season? Did it not frustrate you to see that they do not function particularly well together and that Suarez's potential was being minimised by playing beside a player so slow in body and mind and with such erratic finishing?

And even if he did get 10 goals for us in the League next season it's not exactly brilliant for £19m.

I know if we spent that type of money on a new striker I'd be hoping he could get around the 15 mark at least.

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He struggled for most of last season, but he finally looked like it was coming together for him. Who are we brining in to replace him? How can we be sure the replacement will be more productive?

Borini is in for one, and he scored goals much more regularly than Carroll last season (and more regularly than almost anyone in Italy, for that matter).
I'm sure another striker will come in to replace Carroll also.

Similarly to the Joe Allen nonsense - why spend money on an overpriced British player when we could just plug Jordan Henderson in there and see what happens?

Good way to go about things.

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If we knew Andy Carroll was going to score 10 or more goals this season I have no idea why we would be selling him tbh.

Because we could probably find a striker to score that many goals for less money and on lower wages

Melion

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Wonderful culture being built here - sack managers who get you to multiple cup finals; welcome useless feckers back into the squad; make no effort to keep superb servants who contributed in our biggest moments last year; flog off young players who finally looked like they were coming good; have one of our most talented kids thoroughly disillusioned;

Ah well.

Sack a manager who wasn't good enough in the league, perfectly fine.
Aquilani and Cole I presume, one of whom is pretty much sold.
Maxi wanted to leave a long time ago and Dirk, as much as I loved him wasn't going to ever reach his 08/09 levels again. Unless you have a hard on for Aurelio of course.
What young players have we "flogged"? Toni Silva?
And Suso is so disillusioned he is looking for a house in Liverpool.

Get back in your fúcking box, enough is enough.

LuckyLloyd

whatawaster wrote: »

Good way to go about things.

You are always talking about development, giving youth a chance, etc. What if Joe Allen is signed and he doesn't perform. Go out and get another young British midfielder next summer to start ahead of the two we have then?

Suso / Henderson / Shelvey

Give them a chance before overspending on others imo

djPSB

whatawaster wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Wonderful culture being built here - sack managers who get you to multiple cup finals; welcome useless feckers back into the squad; make no effort to keep superb servants who contributed in our biggest moments last year; flog off young players who finally looked like they were coming good; have one of our most talented kids thoroughly disillusioned;

Ah well.

Dirk Kuyt was on £90,000 a week. That's pay fitting for a vital first team player, not the bit-part performer he had become. Likewise Maxi.
Only a mad-man would have given Aurelio a new contract.
Maxi was also on a fortune, wished to leave, and is coming towards the end of his career.

These were three moves that had to be made.

I agree with you about Cole.

£19 million is significantly over Carroll's true worth and if West Ham stay up, which I think they will, then this is an excellent deal.

Also reported in the independent today that Aquilani is on £125,000 per week.

Melion

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He struggled for most of last season, but he finally looked like it was coming together for him. Who are we brining in to replace him? How can we be sure the replacement will be more productive?

How about you wait for the replacement to actually sign before giving out about it?

LuckyLloyd

Melion wrote: »

How about you wait for the replacement to actually sign before giving out about it?

Give me a list of players who could be got for that fee, who would want to join us? Similarities to the attitude on Kenny with this one. Make a change before thinking about what is to come next...

djPSB

Emily Heskey is available on a free lads.

Has he worked with Rodgers before?

Grayditch

If that deal goes through, I look forward to the court case with West Ham next summer.

Also, us losing both games to West Ham, haha.

opr

Suso hasn't been registered in the Europa cup squad. When you look at some of the other players registered his omission looks very odd.

Goalkeepers

Péter Gulácsi
Pepe Reina
Daniel Ward
Brad Jones
Jamie Stephens *
Tyrell Belford *

Defenders

Bradley Smith *
Stephen Sama *
Martin Kelly
Ryan McLaughlin
José Enrique
Martin Škrtel
Glen Johnson
Daniel Agger
Jaime Carragher
Sebastián Coates
Conor Coady *
Jonathon Flanagan *
Jack Robinson *
Danny Wilson
Andre Wisdom *

Midfielders

Joe Cole
Stuart Downing
Steven Gerrard
Charlie Adam
Jordan Henderson
Jay Spearing
Alberto Aquilani
Jonjo Shelvey
Lucas
Jakub Sokolik *
Craig Roddan *
Krisztián Adorján *
Jordan Lussey *
Jack Dunn *

Forwards

Daniel Pacheco *
Michael Ngoo *
Adam Morgan *
Luis Suárez
Andy Carroll
Fabio Borini
Raheem Sterling *

* = List 'B' Player

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2013/clubs/club=7889/squad/index.html

Opr

Melion

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Give me a list of players who could be got for that fee, who would want to join us? Similarities to the attitude on Kenny with this one. Make a change before thinking about what is to come next...

Do you know how much money there is to spend? Do you know who the club have spoken to? No, you are just as in the dark as all of us, just stop talking rubbish please. You are clueless and for some reason are trying to spout enough rubbish to somehow come across as a knowledgeable fan.

LuckyLloyd

Fair enough, Suso is off.

LuckyLloyd

Melion wrote: »

Do you know how much money there is to spend? Do you know who the club have spoken to? No, you are just as in the dark as all of us, just stop talking rubbish please. You are clueless and for some reason are trying to spout enough rubbish to somehow come across as a knowledgeable fan.

So you don't have an answer, you just want to SELL! SELL! SELL! a young player with undoubted potential who has begun putting it together without thinking about whether we can upgrade on him or not.

Good job, good effort.

Melion

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So you don't have an answer, you just want to SELL! SELL! SELL! a young player with undoubted potential who has begun putting it together without thinking about whether we can upgrade on him or not.

Good job, good effort.

Nope I don't want to sell him. I'm also not stupid enough to think the club would sell him without having a striker lined up to replace him. Wish the same could be said for others around here.

Melion

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Fair enough, Suso is off.

Surely by that logic Aquilani is staying so?

Morzadec

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Give me a list of players who could be got for that fee, who would want to join us? Similarities to the attitude on Kenny with this one. Make a change before thinking about what is to come next...

For example:

- Ramirez £15m: would free up Gerrard to play in the front 3, or have him play in a wide position in the front 3 occasionally

---

Ramirez

---

Gerrard---Borini

---

Suarez

-Adrian £15m:

Adrian---Borini----Suarez


- Hell I'll even go Clint Dempsey, playing at the tip of the midfield 3 or in the front 3.


That's 3 just off the top of my head and I don't even watch that much European football. I'm sure there's a lot of quality options out there. £19m should get you a long way on a one player purchase.

We should be able to get a player far more suited to a 4-3-3 where the 3 are to be mobile, versatile clever attackers with good work rate off the ball and still be left with change from the £19m

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You are always talking about development, giving youth a chance, etc. What if Joe Allen is signed and he doesn't perform. Go out and get another young British midfielder next summer to start ahead of the two we have then?

Suso / Henderson / Shelvey

Give them a chance before overspending on others imo

There is a risk of under performing with any player brought in, regardless of cost.

Allen is being brought in because Rodgers knows him and likes him and also because he will cover both DM and CM. I'm all for giving the above-mentioned players a chance, but absolutely need a CM who can cover Lucas. It's vital. Allen ticks all the boxes and needn't be here to replace Henderson/Shelvey . . . he compliments all the midfielders we already have

klose

According to wiki (i know) doni was released 4 days ago

djPSB

whippedcream wrote: »

According to wiki (i know) doni was released 4 days ago

It's been a dark 4 days.

whatawaster

opr wrote: »

Suso hasn't been registered in the Europa cup squad. When you look at some of the other players registered his omission looks very odd.

Goalkeepers

Péter Gulácsi
Pepe Reina
Daniel Ward
Brad Jones
Jamie Stephens *
Tyrell Belford *

Defenders

Bradley Smith *
Stephen Sama *
Martin Kelly
Ryan McLaughlin
José Enrique
Martin Škrtel
Glen Johnson
Daniel Agger
Jaime Carragher
Sebastián Coates
Conor Coady *
Jonathon Flanagan *
Jack Robinson *
Danny Wilson
Andre Wisdom *

Midfielders

Joe Cole
Stuart Downing
Steven Gerrard
Charlie Adam
Jordan Henderson
Jay Spearing
Alberto Aquilani
Jonjo Shelvey
Lucas
Jakub Sokolik *
Craig Roddan *
Krisztián Adorján *
Jordan Lussey *
Jack Dunn *

Forwards

Daniel Pacheco *
Michael Ngoo *
Adam Morgan *
Luis Suárez
Andy Carroll
Fabio Borini
Raheem Sterling *

* = List 'B' Player

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2013/clubs/club=7889/squad/index.html

Opr

Bizarre.

Loan move, maybe?

Gbear

Joni23 wrote: »

There's a lot of talk about David Villa coming in on loan once the Carroll move is done.

That makes none of the sense.

He's 30. He'll be worth less next season. I see nothing of any value to Barca in a deal like that.

There'd be plenty of teams happy to buy him.

Leiva

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Fair enough, Suso is off.

Ahh FFS the omission from Europa league squad is baffling .

ASOT

Hopefully suso is off on loan and not for good

opr

whatawaster wrote: »

Bizarre.

Loan move, maybe?

Maybe but he just tweeted that he was looking for a house in Liverpool.

Opr

Leiva

opr wrote: »

Maybe but he just tweeted that he was looking for a house in Liverpool.

Opr

Doesn't mean a purchase but .

whatawaster

opr wrote: »

Maybe but he just tweeted that he was looking for a house in Liverpool.

Opr

literally nothing about this makes sense.

murpho999

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Wonderful culture being built here - sack managers who get you to multiple cup finals; welcome useless feckers back into the squad; make no effort to keep superb servants who contributed in our biggest moments last year; flog off young players who finally looked like they were coming good; have one of our most talented kids thoroughly disillusioned;

Ah well.

I think Roger's is trying to establish his own culture and I don't think you should really pass comment till at least the transfer window is closed.

Nobody on here know's his full plans yet or what's in the pipeline.

It's all well and good saying that a young player is good etc but we don't know here what they are like at the club or off the field, managers and coaches do.

whatawaster

opr wrote: »

Maybe but he just tweeted that he was looking for a house in Liverpool.

Opr

New contract and a loan somewhere local...ish.

Blackpool, Wigan or Bolton maybe.

That or he's moving to Everton

Jesus Wept

whippedcream wrote: »

According to wiki (i know) doni was released 4 days ago

Rodgers out.

Melion

I hope if Suso does leave permanently then the Kenny lovers give him the majority of the blame for it. His refusal to play him at all last season was baffling. His form had dipped a bit but he was still a better option to have on the bench than most Kenny had on it. I seem to recall 4 defenders and a keeper on it for one game.

Gbear

Everything coming out of the club and around it in the media is just conflicting nonsense. I'd say stick to completely ignoring everything unless it's actually confirmed on the club's website. There's only 1 month left of the transfer window. Bury your head in the sand until then and maybe, just maybe, you might make it into next season with your mind still in one piece.