Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

Kirby

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When you've been around the block a bit plain Jane becomes the prize imo!

For me, effective = attractive. Watching teams get cut open with the minimum of fuss is awesome. Watching Barcelona make 1000 five yard passes is not imo.

While I would agree with that, you must not watch Barca play. It's exquisite the way they cut teams open. Teams who play 11 behind the ball at all times and they still usually destory them. I don't know the stats but I would wager they average more than 3 goals a game.

It's not all five yard passes. It's sublime through balls through the eye of the needle and dribbling round four defenders before finding the bottom corner.

GavRedKing

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When you've been around the block a bit plain Jane becomes the prize imo!

For me, effective = attractive. Watching teams get cut open with the minimum of fuss is awesome. Watching Barcelona make 1000 five yard passes is not imo.

I'd swap all our midifeld for a player like Xavi/Iniesta that can play those balls all day long and link up with those around them. :pac:

For me effective = winning but thats just me, I'd love to play like Real Madrid and win at a canter whenever we wanted to step up the tempo but I'd happily take a sloppy 1-0 Stoke type win for games to, ya have to take the good with the bads at times unfortunatly.

missingtime

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

For me, effective = attractive. Watching teams get cut open with the minimum of fuss is awesome. Watching Barcelona make 1000 five yard passes is not imo.

I'm the complete opposite

EDIT: I never warmed to the way Man Utd play. They are very good and [GRITTED TEETH]deserve respect[/GRITTED TEETH] but I just dont like their style of play.

NukaCola

5starpool wrote: »

The term 'chance' covers a multitude of sins. Downing created a load of chances last season, some of which were good chances, but mostly were chances that were not anything like clearcut, yet they are still lumped under the same definition. Statistically Downing created a lot, but from watching pretty much all his playing time, he did not.

From watching Swansea last season i wouldnt have said they were boring, or didnt create many chances. Statistically i am correct, i have no other way of backing up my opinion, however i take your point......i'm not saying they created more quality chances than Newcastle, just that to call them boring and that they dont create many chances is untrue IMO.

Just to add Newcastle shots on target 154 Swansea 145

Gbear

Kirby wrote: »

While I would agree with that, you must not watch Barca play. It's exquisite the way they cut teams open. Teams who play 11 behind the ball at all times and they still usually destory them. I don't know the stats but I would wager they average more than 3 goals a game.

It's not all five yard passes. It's sublime through balls through the eye of the needle and dribbling round four defenders before finding the bottom corner.

With Barca, they don't just do the passing - the little simple passes and movement are their standard level of play. It isn't how they beat teams, it's just naturally the way they move the ball and move around the pitch.

They get penetration from Messi, players like Sanchez, Messi, Fabregas and Pedro running off the shoulder if defences play high, their pace is lethal in counter attack and the range of passing and creativity in their play is breathtaking.

People who say Barca are boring to watch don't just "have a different opinion", they're talking ****e.

noodler

Chucky the tree wrote: »

You said it should be backed as sign of permanent recovery. Maybe 71% was just a blip in his career of normal playing far less.

I said, I believe, that we should choose to have faith on someone that important rather than ship him out.

Permanent might have been the wrong word to use, maybe 'progressing well' or something would have helped.

Kirby

Swansea were involved in many exciting games. Actually, so were Newcastle. You could argue this was down to style of play, poor defending or any other reason but I always liked watching games with them in it.

Handsome Bob

Kirby wrote: »

Handsome Bob wrote: »

If reports are true (yeah big if, just go with me here), fair play to Carroll for rejecting a loan move to West Ham. This is the kind of **** that really pisses me off about the current regime, an utterly bizarre way of doing business. And for those who say it'll be a good deal in the long run, just look at the idiotic way we've conducted business over Aquilani for the past 2 years, going on 3.

This deal was nothing like that deal. You always get taken for a ride with "upon playing x amount of games" deals. Liverpool fans seem to think that this is a new phenomenon. It's not.

If west ham stay up they are obligated to buy him. It's a binding contract. And it's for good money.....more than he's worth in my eye especially as your coach doesn't want him.

That's a big if, because there's a fair chance they won't stay up, while we spend the season without a perfectly legitimate striker and end right back at square 1 next Summer.

As for Rodgers, perhaps Carroll doesn't fit his primary tactics, but I would hope he'd be smart enough to realise his tactics won't always work, and that Carroll could be invaluable if he has to change it up. Or at the very least, I'd hope he'd be smart enough to know that loan deals are a highly risky game. Get rid of him if he wants, but don't be a turkey: get rid if it's worth our while in the immediate present.

ThunbergsAreGo

NukaCola wrote: »

From watching Swansea last season i wouldnt have said they were boring, or didnt create many chances. Statistically i am correct, i have no other way of backing up my opinion, however i take your point......i'm not saying they created more quality chances than Newcastle, just that to call them boring and that they dont create many chances is untrue IMO.

Just to add Newcastle shots on target 154 Swansea 145

Said it a few times, think Newcastle got lucky in many ways last year and will not do half as well this year. Top 8 would be a massive success for them

Gbear

Handsome Bob wrote: »

As for Rodgers, perhaps Carroll doesn't fit his primary tactics, but I would hope he'd be smart enough to realise his tactics won't always work, and that Carroll could be invaluable if he has to change it up. Or at the very least, I'd hope he'd be smart enough to know that loan deals are a highly risky game. Get rid of him if he wants, but don't be a turkey: get rid if it's worth our while in the immediate present.

Tbh, I think the "plan b option" is a terrible reason to keep Carroll.

I think the main problem I have with the notion that Carroll is only good for lumping the ball forward as a plan b is that I think he at least deserves a chance to be fitted into the new type of football we're supposed to be playing or that the system can be somewhat altered to accommodate him.

For the system to work without the need for a plan b I think it needs flexibility. I think the mistake isn't that we're trying to sell an asset to reinvest into the squad - if we get the right bid then go for it.
If the only reason we're selling Caroll is based on a faulty premise and that reason causes us to take a bad deal for him then I think that's bad management.

redzerdrog

NukaCola wrote: »

Well that would depend on what boring means to you.

Last season Newcastle created 302 chances. 39 from setpieces. 263 from open play.

Swansea created 329 chances. 47 from setpieces. 282 from open play.

Would you describe Newcastle as boring?

I based my opinion on watching the games and last season overall i found swansea quite defensive. On newcastle no i wouldnt call them boring or particularly exciting but they were interesting in the fact they could win or lose 4-0 on any given day.

Have you got the stats on how many chances ourselves and the rest of the league created and not just comparing them to Newcastle as you feel it suits your arguement?

In our games under Rodgers we have seen anything but exciting/attractive football tbh and I know there isnt many 1st teamers but the tactics I presume will be the same.

Knex*

naughtb4 wrote: »

Said it a few times, think Newcastle got lucky in many ways last year and will not do half as well this year. Top 8 would be a massive success for them

Thing is, Cisse, Cabaye, Ben Arfa and Tiote woud all probably make it into our team.

Can easily see Cisse getting 20 PL goals next year. Nowhere near as confident with any of our options tbh.

Newcastle's defence is where the obvious weakness is, yet last year they managed to far exceed expectations in that regard.

Krul is a fantastic talent, likwise Santon has a lot of potential. If Taylor and Collocini play a lot together it can only be a good thing, and if they manage to sign Debuchy then the defence doesn't look that bad at all.

If Newcastle add, rather than sell, this summer they could very well perform to similar levels as last year.

I'm hoping Pardew holds them back. Still have my reservations about him as a manager.

ThunbergsAreGo

Knex. wrote: »

Thing is, Cisse, Cabaye, Ben Arfa and Tiote woud all probably make it into our team.

Can easily see Cisse getting 20 PL goals next year. Nowhere near as confident with any of our options tbh.

Newcastle's defence is where the obvious weakness is, yet last year they managed to far exceed expectations in that regard.

Krul is a fantastic talent, likwise Santos has a lot of potential. If Taylor and Collocini play a lot together it can only be a good thing, and if they manage to sign Debuchy then the defence doesn't look that bad at all.

If Newcastle add, rather than sell, this summer they could very well perform to similar levels as last year.

I'm hoping Pardew holds them back. Still have my reservations about him as a manager.

I disagree id have Ba/Cisse and Tiote/Cabaye and Ben Arfa (probably) with Lucas, Suarez, Gerrard, Johnson, Reina, Agger, Skrtl, Enrique (maybe debatable)

just think they lack squad depth, especially when you look at the amount go games Guthrie etc got. I agree wholly on Pardew and is the main reason i think they will struggle.

Even look a their win against us last year, Carrol with an idiotic piece of play and a blatently offside goal that would be disallowed 9/10 times

At this stage i just wnat Carroll to go, if it all just paper talk hell start on Thursday, its not and he wont

Knex*

naughtb4 wrote: »

I disagree id have Ba/Cisse and Tiote/Cabaye and Ben Arfa (probably) with Lucas, Suarez, Gerrard, Johnson, Reina, Agger, Skrtl, Enrique (maybe debatable)

just think they lack squad depth, especially when you look at the amount go games Guthrie etc got. I agree wholly on Pardew and is the main reason i think they will struggle.

Even look a their win against us last year, Carrol with an idiotic piece of play and a blatently offside goal that would be disallowed 9/10 times

At this stage i just wnat Carroll to go, if it all just paper talk hell start on Thursday, its not and he wont

I think, judging by Gerrard's injury history, it would be very likely that four out of the five you mentioned would get a hell of a lot of game time, so I don't think I'm too far off with my pick of Cisse, Cabaye, Ben Arfa and Tiote.

I would definitely agree with you on the squad depth matter and this was something I alluded to when I said they couldn't afford to sell players and need to add.

We should finish higher than Newcastle as things stand, but we still have a lot of work to do before the season starts and I wouldn't quite be as quick to push Newcastle back down as being a top 10 side just yet.

ThunbergsAreGo

Knex. wrote: »

I think, judging by Gerrard's injury history, it would be very likely that four out of the five you mentioned would get a hell of a lot of game time, so I don't think I'm too far off with my pick of Cisse, Cabaye, Ben Arfa and Tiote.

I would definitely agree with you on the squad depth matter and this was something I alluded to when I said they couldn't afford to sell players and need to add.

We should finish higher than Newcastle as things stand, but we still have a lot of work to do before the season starts and I wouldn't quite be as quick to push Newcastle back down as being a top 10 side just yet.

The football just needs to start

Francie Barrett

Knex. wrote: »

Thing is, Cisse, Cabaye, Ben Arfa and Tiote woud all probably make it into our team.

Can easily see Cisse getting 20 PL goals next year. Nowhere near as confident with any of our options tbh.

Newcastle's defence is where the obvious weakness is, yet last year they managed to far exceed expectations in that regard.

Krul is a fantastic talent, likwise Santos has a lot of potential. If Taylor and Collocini play a lot together it can only be a good thing, and if they manage to sign Debuchy then the defence doesn't look that bad at all.

If Newcastle add, rather than sell, this summer they could very well perform to similar levels as last year.

I'm hoping Pardew holds them back. Still have my reservations about him as a manager.

The only Newcastle player I would have in our team is Cisse, and that's only because Suarez is our only proven forward who has decent form and can play regular football.

Morzadec

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The only Newcastle player I would have in our team is Cisse, and that's only because Suarez is our only proven forward who has decent form and can play regular football.

Seriously??

No room for Tiote? Even more ridiculous, no room for Cabaye?!?!

The above 2 and Cisse would significantly improve our first XI and there'd be others who would improve the squad. Ben Arfa would certainly be in with a shout too.

Leiva

Another day no signings/strengthening

ThunbergsAreGo

Morzadec wrote: »

Seriously??

No room for Tiote? Even more ridiculous, no room for Cabaye?!?!

The above 2 and Cisse would significantly improve our first XI and there'd be others who would improve the squad. Ben Arfa would certainly be in with a shout too.

Would people have Tiote/Cabaye over Lucas?

Chucky the tree

Cabeye would walk into our starting 11, even if he had one leg he'd still probably make it.

Francie Barrett

naughtb4 wrote: »

Would people have Tiote/Cabaye over Lucas?

Nope.

kop77

duncan jenkins ‏duncanjenkinsFC
phil jones in the #olympic #diving http://twitpic.com/adsw16

budgemook

I'd say Tiote and Lucas are around the same in terms of ability. I'd take Lucas because he's Lucas.

Cabaye is a class act and I'd love him at Liverpool.

Cabaye or Adam?

Francie Barrett

Actually, I take back what I said about Cabaye, I would have him and Cisse in our first 11. Tiote or Ben Arfa I could leave though.

Nuri Sahin

I'd have Ben Afra, Cabaye, Cisse and Ba(for ST, probably is better at LW than Downing but that's not saying much!) in our starting XI at drop of a hat.

Wouldn't swap Tiote for Lucas.

Coloccini is very good in his own right but with Skrtel, Agger and Coates here, there'd be no need for him.

Santon is very good, but I'd like to see him preform to a similar standard next season. But we have Robinson who I think has a big future for us. Enrique does worry me though.

Krul likewise with Santon, another season of similar standard to last and a case can be made for him, especially if Reina is poor like he was last season.

Francie Barrett

-Ade- wrote: »

I'd have Ben Afra, Cabaye, Cisse and Ba(for ST, probably is better at LW than Downing but that's not saying much!) in our starting XI at drop of a hat.

You would have to drop Suarez then as Ben Arfa, Cisse and Ba would be your three up front.

Glico Man

Francie Barrett wrote: »

You would have to drop Suarez then as Ben Arfa, Cisse and Ba would be your three up front.

Easy solution to your problem, play a front 4 with Cabaye and Lucas mopping up in midfield.

Nuri Sahin

Francie Barrett wrote: »

You would have to drop Suarez then as Ben Arfa, Cisse and Ba would be your three up front.

Ben Afra - Cisse - Suarez

Morzadec

Sign of pre-season that we're having this debate but this is what I'd play:

---Tiote----Lucas

---

Cabaye----
Gerrard

---

Suarez

---

Cisse

---

EDIT: Ben Arfa in for Gerrard when he inevitably gets injured!

markesmith

Whoops! Meant to click on the Liverpool superthread :pac:

Nuri Sahin

Francie Barrett wrote: »

You would have to drop Suarez then as Ben Arfa, Cisse and Ba would be your three up front.

Seems my laptop won't allow me to edit my post!

I was talk about them individually. Would each player get into our team? For sure. I stressed Ba as a ST, but in a Rodgers formation it won't work as there is also Cisse, whom I've been pushing for us to sign a good few years now be it in the SF (namely last summer), Twitter or the gambling forum. Cisse I rate higher and would obviously get the nod over Ba.

Colemania

From Liverpoolfc.com

Brendan Rodgers insists there is a lot of hard work going on behind the scenes to enable the manager to strengthen his squad ahead of the 2012-13 season.


Liverpool have been linked with a number of players during pre-season and, while keeping his targets close to his chest, the manager is confident he will get the players he desires.

Rodgers told Liverpoolfc.com: "There's a lot of great work going on, obviously with the board and Ian Ayre in particular doing a lot of work behind the scenes. I've got regular contact going with our American owners and, in particular, Mike Gordon from Fenway Sports Group.

"Obviously when it's a club like Liverpool prices are always increased and so on, but I always felt it was important by the beginning of the season we could have the squad we want - and certainly by the end of the transfer window I would hope that will be the case.

"There is lots of speculation. I've seen hundreds of names linked with Liverpool and there's very few of them that were even close to coming here or we have even looked at.

"Unfortunately for the supporters they've got to read it and put up with it. But the message is there is a lot of work going on, on a number of deals and hopefully we can get those completed by the end of August."

Maybe Dempsey and Allen are those players Rodgers is referring to with the inflated prices and I wouldn't be surprised if they were. With regards to the 2nd quote in bold, and i hate to say it, but perhaps we were never close to signing Ramirez.....

Read into that as you wish.

MD1990

Colemania wrote: »

Maybe Dempsey and Allen are those players Rodgers is referring to with the inflated prices and I wouldn't be surprised if they were. With regards to the 2nd quote in bold, and i hate to say it, but perhaps we were never close to signing Ramirez.....

Read into that as you wish.

i'm confident we will get Dempsey in a few weeks
Allen i wouldn't be so sure
hopefully we are signing 4 or 5 players before september

NukaCola

MD1990 wrote: »

i'm confident we will get Dempsey in a few weeks
Allen i wouldn't be so sure
hopefully we are signing 4 or 5 players before september

Thats very hopeful IMO.
I'd be absolutely delighted with 4/5 signings.

I'll take Rodgers at his word that theres a lot of work going on behind the scenes but i cant shake the feeling that he hasn't a lot of money to spend and that we have to sell to buy. Hopefully i'm wrong.

Realistically i see 2 maybe 3 more signings max.

G.K.

I'd not have Tiote and Lucas. Cabaye is good enough defensively to be in the 2 imo. You can have Gerrard and Ben Arfa that way.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Morzadec wrote: »

Sign of pre-season that we're having this debate but this is what I'd play:

---Tiote----Lucas

---

Cabaye----
Gerrard

---

Suarez

---

Cisse

---

EDIT: Ben Arfa in for Gerrard when he inevitably gets injured!

What team we talkign about here...?

klose

Pacheco tweeted he won't be going to Belarus for thursdays game so I'm kinda confused, pacheco was 2nd best in America only to shelvey. As far as I'm concerned he's good enough for this game! Is rodgers gonna go all guns blazing and field our strongest possible team and bench or bring all the young reserves?

Gbear

whippedcream wrote: »

Pacheco tweeted he won't be going to Belarus for thursdays game so I'm kinda confused, pacheco was 2nd best in America only to shelvey. As far as I'm concerned he's good enough for this game! Is rodgers gonna go all guns blazing and field our strongest possible team and bench or bring all the young reserves?

For my money, with the olympics and some of our player not ready to start, Pacheco is probably in our strongest 11.

It's that or start Cole.

wcarey1975

Gbear wrote: »

For my money, with the olympics and some of our player not ready to start, Pacheco is probably in our strongest 11.

It's that or start Cole.

If he does you know hes not taking the EL as a priority

Morzadec

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

What team we talkign about here...?

An imaginary hybrid of Liverpool and Newcastle.

I know I know....

Slow news day

opr

Pacheco isn't even in the squad? Sigh!

Opr

Colemania

whippedcream wrote: »

Pacheco tweeted he won't be going to Belarus for thursdays game so I'm kinda confused, pacheco was 2nd best in America only to shelvey. As far as I'm concerned he's good enough for this game! Is rodgers gonna go all guns blazing and field our strongest possible team and bench or bring all the young reserves?

My guess is that he wants to try out his new philosophy and tactics with a strong team and hopefully build up a good away goals tally before throwing in the reserves for the home leg, those being Suso and Pacheco hopefully. I don't classify Shelvey as a reserve now and I think he'll definitely start on Thursday. Lucas may not even start due to him just coming back to fitness and Gerrard is just back also so maybe we'll see Aquilani starting too!

mike65

Is there a game on Thursday? Never guessed it reading this thread!

Gbear

mike65 wrote: »

Is there a game on Thursday? Never guessed it reading this thread!

It's Gomel
I had a look through their side. Mostly Belarusian non-internationals.

If they're not even good enough to make the side ranked 77th in the world they really can't be up to much.
I mean even Ireland are like 25th or something.

NEDDURC

I'd expect a pretty strong starting team on Thursday as it can be used as a decent pre-season for the players who have only recently returned and haven't really gotten much game time. Probably a pity for the young lads like Pacheco who have done well.

Jones

Johnson Agger Skrtel Enrique

Spearing Henderson Gerrard

Cole Borini Downing

Morzadec

In many ways it's the perfect game to have - a competitive game that should still have an air of pre-season about it.

It's a nice bridge between the pre-season and the start of the Premier League

opr

Adam Morgan is travelling with the squad to Belarus so looks like some of the young lads are heading over. (I guess we're very short on actual striking options)

Opr

D'Agger

Morzadec wrote: »

In many ways it's the perfect game to have - a competitive game that should still have an air of pre-season about it.

It's a nice bridge between the pre-season and the start of the Premier League

Agreed - it's not a bad game to have on the cards coming into a season, the only worry is picking up knocks due to the competitive nature of the game.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Gbear wrote: »

It's Gomel
I had a look through their side. Mostly Belarusian non-internationals.

If they're not even good enough to make the side ranked 77th in the world they really can't be up to much.
I mean even Ireland are like 25th or something.

A win, so. albeit probably requiring extra time at Anfield.

Jesus Wept

I'm going mad Ted.