Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

rossie1977

stage one......denial

SM01

Kess73 wrote: »

Dropping Schrodinger's cat in coversations has become quite the cliche, one that I am certainly guilty of, but right now the cat is the hope and expectations of the supporters. None of us know how this transfer window will turn out and the cat may well be alive or dead as we type. We just won't know until the close of the transfer window.

Agree about Allen and Dempsey though, have noticed quite a few people talking about them as if they were already Liverpool players, just as a few have been talking about current Liverpool players as if they had moved.

I think with regards to optimism or pessimism over transfers, one could argue a case either way and be just as convincing with either arguement.

Personally I had hoped that we would have had two or three players in by the start of August with maybe a player or two to follow in late August, but right now it is what it is, and I won't be passing any personal judgement on the summer window until it has actually ended. Just seems foolish to do so as the right player or players could well take until late August to get, and if that is the case then I prefer that to getting overpriced and undertalented players in early.

If the transfer window does end in disappointment, then that's a debate for when it happens not 30 days beforehand.

I think this post should be a mandatory read and re-read before anyone posts their thoughts about the club's transfer comings, goings and rumours.

NukaCola

Kess73 wrote: »

Dropping Schrodinger's cat in coversations has become quite the cliche, one that I am certainly guilty of, but right now the cat is the hope and expectations of the supporters. None of us know how this transfer window will turn out and the cat may well be alive or dead as we type.

Schrodingers interpretation was that that the Cat was both alive and dead at that moment inside the sealed box. How does that interpretation sit with supporters

Knex*

SM01 wrote: »

I think this post should be a mandatory read and re-read before anyone posts their thoughts about the club's transfer comings, goings and rumours.

TBH, I think everyone is saying more or less the same thing. Just as time runs out, and we get closer and closer to the season kick off, our apprehension about the lack of signings grows.

No one is currently saying we're fcuked or definitively saying that our summer transfer window is shite. From what I can gather people are doing exactly as Kess said, saying that as things stand we are currently in pretty bad shape for the coming season. I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Kess73

NukaCola wrote: »

Schrodingers interpretation was that that the Cat was both alive and dead at that moment inside the sealed box. How does that interpretation sit with supporters

Tell you what. Let me find a large box and some posion. Then you can meet up with me so I can explain it to you. :pac:

SlickRic

people are also putting a really positive spin on Maxi. Kuyt is one thing, a big game player if there ever was one, even though he was running out of steam last year.

but Maxi never impressed me that much. his big attribute was his ability to get in the box, as none of our other midfielders last year seemed capable of doing it. but his general play was largely quite poor when he played, and he was anonymous for long stretches, often forgotten because of a tap-in he may have managed to get. if he didn't get that goal, you'd have forgotten he was playing.

but he's not the HUGE loss many are trying to argue he is IMO.

nor are his big wages tbh.

Kess73

rossie1977 wrote: »

stage one......denial

Stage two is always the most fun.


Although if you meant my post, then stage five would be more appropriate as a take on how I am currently viewing things. :P

Knex*

SlickRic wrote: »

people are also putting a really positive spin on Maxi. Kuyt is one thing, a big game player if there ever was one, even though he was running out of steam last year.

but Maxi never impressed me that much. his big attribute was his ability to get in the box, as none of our other midfielders last year seemed capable of doing it. but his general play was largely quite poor when he played, and he was anonymous for long stretches, often forgotten because of a tap-in he may have managed to get. if he didn't get that goal, you'd have forgotten he was playing.

but he's not the HUGE loss many are trying to argue he is IMO.

nor are his big wages tbh.

I think you're slightly underselling Maxi a bit there, but I agree with the crux of your point. I've been saying it since last season ended, get rid of Maxi, Kuyt, Aqua, Aurelio and Cole.

Bit part to non existent players, be it either last season or for the season coming, and all on high wages. I will not mourn the departure of any of them, and fact is, judging by their game time last year they're not a massive loss.

We do need to replace them though with genuine start worthy players, as the likes of Downing who were ahead of them in the pecking order are not cutting it either.

People will argue about Kuyt's contribution, which was fantastic, but the time was right to move him on.

Kess73

Knex. wrote: »

TBH, I think everyone is saying more or less the same thing. Just as time runs out, and we get closer and closer to the season kick off, our apprehension about the lack of signings grows.

No one is currently saying we're fcuked or definitively saying that our summer transfer window is shite. From what I can gather people are doing exactly as Kess said, saying that as things stand we are currently in pretty bad shape for the coming season. I don't think anyone can argue with that.

We are one first team squad player down on last season if people want to use numbers. Players like Doni don't come into it in my eyes as he was never going to play 10 or more games a season.

The only way that translates into pretty bad shape is if the same people thought we were in pretty bad shape with the squad we had at the end of last season.


The only differences we have now in terms of the first team squad (based on players who would have, or should, play ten games or more is Borini in and Kuyt/Maxi out.

The only way the squad is currently in pretty bad shape now is if it was a pretty bad squad under the same terms as left by the previous manager. People cannot have it both ways and claim the squad was decent when the season finished and is not crap based on there being a numerical difference of one bit part player.

If Kuyt and Maxi leaving has left the squad in a pretty bad way, then that is a damning reflection on the squad that was built over the past 18 or so months. It really shows how much of a rebuilding job has to be started yet again.

joe123

Kess73 wrote: »

Last season on here was full of posts saying Kuyt was passed it and should be moved on, and plenty were saying that Maxi should be shipped out as well.

Last season plenty were saying, not necessarily yourself, were saying that we should be giving our young players run outs instead of those two so what has changed?

Surely if Kuyt and Maxi are gone, then the people who were saying to give some of the reserves run outs should be happy?

Surely Sterling could be used for 10 to 20 games from the bench to see what he has got, and if we are going to go with three in the centre this season instead of two then surely one of the squad spots used by either Kuyt or Maxi can go to a midfielder to act as cover for the extra midfield slot?

Plus we have Borini as a new player in, so really so far we are only one player down from the first team squad in terms of players who would get ten games or more a season.

Thats the thing, I dont think anyone can complain regarding the likes of Kuyt and Maxi being shipped out.

Both players were on big wages and if it means theres more of a chance for Pacheco, Sterling and Suso to get games and develop then its a win win situation.

Its not as if theres a gulf in class between Kuyt/Maxi and Suso/Sterling/Pacheco.

How anyone can lay blame at Rodgers' door for Aquilani also confuses me and really is a sign of people looking for a reason to pin something else on him. Aquilani was a parasite on the club.

Mr Alan

SlickRic wrote: »

but he's not the HUGE loss many are trying to argue he is IMO.

I agree with you that he's not a huge loss. He is however, a loss & should be replaced well & improved upon ideally. We don't really seem to be doing that however currently. Another month left though.

The issue is that we're apparently shipping out a number of forward players & not really even being linked with any forward player other than Dempsey. Certainly unless they've been kept totally under the radar we don't seem near bringing in any forward player other than Dempsey, however it's looking increasingly likely that Carroll is finished with Bellamy not far behind. It's a worry.

joe123 wrote: »

Its not as if theres a gulf in class between Kuyt/Maxi and Suso/Sterling/Pacheco.

Is that a joke?

Knex*

Kess73 wrote: »

We are one first team squad player down on last season if people want to use numbers. Players like Doni don't come into it in my eyes as he was never going to play 10 or more games a season.

The only way that translates into pretty bad shape is if the same people thought we were in pretty bad shape with the squad we had at the end of last season.


The only differences we have now in terms of the first team squad (based on players who would have, or should, play ten games or more is Borini in and Kuyt/Maxi out.

The only way the squad is currently in pretty bad shape now is if it was a pretty bad squad under the same terms as left by the previous manager. People cannot have it both ways and claim the squad was decent when the season finished and is not crap based on there being a numerical difference of one bit part player.

If Kuyt and Maxi leaving has left the squad in a pretty bad way, then that is a damning reflection on the squad that was built over the past 18 or so months. It really shows how much of a rebuilding job has to be started yet again.

If you read my other post I've said the same thing with regards to first team player departures.

I still believe, however, that we are well of the pace when compared to the squads of the other top 6 teams.

We need at least 2-3 starting players if we are to push for CL football. Our defence, Lucas and Suarez are the strength of the squad. We need a winger a CM and probably a striker.

Big Knox

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Agger isn't leaving, but if he was to leave, we should be expecting over £30 million. That is what Thiago Silva cost PSG.

As much as I love Agger he is not in the same class as Silva and he is injury prone but I would expect no less than 20 million.

NukaCola wrote: »

Schrodingers interpretation was that that the Cat was both alive and dead at that moment inside the sealed box. How does that interpretation sit with supporters

It's probably the interpretation that goes along with the analogy best in this case. I'm sure every Liverpool supporter has their optimistic and pessimistic views right now, some lean more to one side than the other (LuckyLLoyd :pac:) but ultimately until the window closes we have no idea which views will be justified.

doc_17

Agger would be a huge loss. He's pure class. If he goes then the asking price should reflect that.

I'm liking the physics metaphors. Although Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle would be my favourite to describe our summer of speculation so far!

Sappy404

Italian journo Gianluca Dimarzio is saying Aqua has said his goodbyes and he's off to Fiorentina. While the box is still closed on this one (to use the thread's latest favourite analogy) if it turns out to be true, is this the first time a story broke by The People has actually come to pass?

http://www.gianlucadimarzio.com/calciomercato/fiorentina-scatenata-adesso-aquilani/

Kess73

doc_17 wrote: »

Agger would be a huge loss. He's pure class. If he goes then the asking price should reflect that.

I'm liking the physics metaphors. Although Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle would be my favourite to describe our summer of speculation so far!

Pretty sure that Dr Sheldon Cooper dismissed that as nonsense.

opr

Apparently Charlie has also not traveled with the squad to Belarus. Another one bites the dust?

Opr

Phoenix Park

opr wrote: »

Apparently Charlie has also not traveled with the squad to Belarus. Another one bites the dust?

Opr

Fingers crossed.

Sappy404

opr wrote: »

Apparently Charlie has also not traveled with the squad to Belarus. Another one bites the dust?

Opr

It's so he's not cup tied when we sell him to Spurs. Look out, Gareth!

missingtime

doc_17 wrote: »

Agger would be a huge loss. He's pure class. If he goes then the asking price should reflect that.

I'm liking the physics metaphors. Although Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle would be my favourite to describe our summer of speculation so far!

We'll all be on the blue glass before the end of the summer...

GBX

Is there anybody showing the game tomorrow?

SM01

Knex. wrote: »

TBH, I think everyone is saying more or less the same thing. Just as time runs out, and we get closer and closer to the season kick off, our apprehension about the lack of signings grows.

No one is currently saying we're fcuked or definitively saying that our summer transfer window is shite. From what I can gather people are doing exactly as Kess said, saying that as things stand we are currently in pretty bad shape for the coming season. I don't think anyone can argue with that.

I don't think everyone's saying more or less the same thing. I think there's quite a wide disparity of views being aired since the new managerial appointment that has intensified with the opening of the transfer window. I don't think there's a point in being too wound up or being overly optimistic about the current state of things because it's a transient state with still quite a while to run before the window closes. Yes, I would like to have seen more faces before our first European games and that's not ideal but personally I feel it's too soon to make a prediction for next season. I'd be very guardedly optimistic that we might do better than expected next season (with no realistic reasons for being so) but I don't discount the eventualities LL and a few others foresee as they are a distinct possibility too. I just feel that we need to let the transfer window get close to running it's course and see how we get on in Europe before I get a feeling on how this season will shape up.

Jesus Wept

gafferino wrote: »

Borini: I feel settled already

"Stevie G and Carragher are the key men and the key players of the club

DAFUQ?!

This simply WEIRD ****ing braining washing BULL**** has to ****ing stop.


It's like witnessing a cult at this stage, we need to get these ***** deprogramed.

Kess73 wrote: »

Players like Doni don't come into it in my eyes as he was never going to play 10 or more games a season.

rossie1977 wrote: »

stage one......denial

.

MD1990

Carragher played well in the pre-season games
isnt a bad 3rd choice defender imo

Turtyturd

MD1990 wrote: »

Carragher played well in the pre-season games
isnt a bad 3rd choice defender imo

He should be at least fourth choice.

doc_17

If Agger goes Carra could be back in the team! It really would be The Big Bang (up the pitch) Theory then.

Jesus Wept

Carra is prob in charge of transfers still.

Morzadec

MD1990 wrote: »

Carragher played well in the pre-season games
isnt a bad 3rd choice defender imo

I agree that Carra looked good in pre-season and isn't bad backup to have. He still has something to offer, although he's a definite downgrade on the starting 2. I think he understands that now so no problem.

I'm not as certain as others that Coates is a better player at this moment in time.

Certainly CB looks a lot healthier then other positions and an experienced Carragher as 3rd or 4th choice is the least of our worries.

Mr Alan

I can't ****ing wait for Carra to start a game ahead of any of the three others this season!

Gerrard in midfield too, gonnabe whopper

The reactions on here shall be epic!

Outkast_IRE

GBX wrote: »

Is there anybody showing the game tomorrow?

Yes Setanta sports 1 , had an ad in todays papers saying they will be showing it.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

I can't ****ing wait for Carra to start a game ahead of any of the three others this season!

Gerrard in midfield too, gonnabe whopper

The reactions on here shall be epic!

I fail to understand why these things would fill you with such delight

Mr Alan

Because personally I don't think it's a big deal (the Carra thing particularly) but certain people on here are quite hilariously opposed to them to an incredible degree & will **** themselves when it happens having convinced themselves that Kenny was a retard for ever considering doing either thing.

whatawaster

Ok, taking things to the extreme - Maxi, Kuyt, Aurelio, Bellamy, Carroll, Aquilani, Adam and Cole all leave. How many bodies need to come in?



DM - Lucas/Spearing
CM - Henderson/Shelvey
AM - Gerrard

FW - Borini, Suarez, Sterling

IMO we would need 4 players.
1) The Allen type to play CM and cover Lucas also
2) Centre-forward to take Carroll's place in the squad
3) Pacy wide player
4) Another versatile attacking midfielder (possibly Dempsey)

Not beyond the realms of possibility, and it's certainly not time to panic now, on the 1st August

We also have Pacheco and Suso on the outskirts of the squad.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

Because personally I don't think it's a big deal (the Carra thing particularly) but certain people on here are quite hilariously opposed to them to an incredible degree & will **** themselves when it happens having convinced themselves that Kenny was a retard for ever considering doing either thing.

This is probably Carragher's last season in professional football, and rightly so, he is a spent force imo. However he did show remarkable discipline in pre-season - I don't think he hoofed the ball once. Nonetheless, it was a mistake last season not to use Coates more and it would be a mistake not to use him more this season. He is talented, first choice centre-back for a top International team, and we missed a trick last season not playing him more in some of the dead rubbers towards the end of the season. Kenny could have done a lot more to get him more playing time in a new country and he failed to do that.

Same with Gerrard. Absolutely no point in playing Gerrard CM. If Rodger's does this he will be rightly criticised (unless Gerrard shows more than he has previously in that position). Lucas and Allen (if he comes) will certainly be first choice CMs. If Gerrard plays 30 games as an attacking midfielder, imo he will get us 10 goals

LuckyLloyd

I used to think that the way to earn respect from a football club fans was to be a big contributor to tons of wins for that club. But seeing how Kuyt, Carra and Kenny have been treated on here the past couple of years I'm no longer sure on that score.

Seems the way to the heart of the modern football club fanbase is to give good interviews and have "potential". Interesting times.

klose

Suarez getting booed at by the whole stadium while the camera zoomed on him while they where singing their national anthemn, absolutely pathetic! Hope he and uraguay turf em out tonight and he has the season of his life this season coming!

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I used to think that the way to earn respect from a football club fan's was to be a big contributor to tons of wins for that club. But seeing how Kuyt, Carra and Kenny have been treated on here the past couple of years I'm no longer sure on that score.

Seems the way to the heart of the modern football club fanbase is to give good interviews and have "potential". Interesting times.

You'll find few Liverpool fans who don't respect all three of them.

But current ability is more important than past performances and nostalgia.

Those three will rightly be remembered in the club's folklore. I'm not getting into the Kenny debate again, but you must see that both Kuyt and Carragher's best days are behind them, and they simply do not deserve the massive wages they are on. Sooner or later, we have to turn to potential and try and realise that potential. We can't compete by letting players realise their potential elsewhere and then paying extortionate fees for them.

whatawaster

whippedcream wrote: »

Suarez getting booed at by the whole stadium while the camera zoomed on him while they where singing their national anthemn, absolutely pathetic! Hope he and uraguay turf em out tonight and he has the season of his life this season coming!

Are you kidding? We need Uruguay to be knocked out ASAP and for Suarez and Coates to get back to training

LuckyLloyd

whippedcream wrote: »

Suarez getting booed at by the whole stadium while the camera zoomed on him while they where singing their national anthemn, absolutely pathetic! Hope he and uraguay turf em out tonight and he has the season of his life this season coming!

To be honest, they'll probably be sorry for doing that in about 2 hours or so...

hefferboi

The booing is some joke. Whole English media is a joke.

djPSB

Kess73 wrote: »

Dropping Schrodinger's cat in coversations has become quite the cliche, one that I am certainly guilty of, but right now the cat is the hope and expectations of the supporters. None of us know how this transfer window will turn out and the cat may well be alive or dead as we type. We just won't know until the close of the transfer window.

Agree about Allen and Dempsey though, have noticed quite a few people talking about them as if they were already Liverpool players, just as a few have been talking about current Liverpool players as if they had moved.

I think with regards to optimism or pessimism over transfers, one could argue a case either way and be just as convincing with either arguement.

Personally I had hoped that we would have had two or three players in by the start of August with maybe a player or two to follow in late August, but right now it is what it is, and I won't be passing any personal judgement on the summer window until it has actually ended. Just seems foolish to do so as the right player or players could well take until late August to get, and if that is the case then I prefer that to getting overpriced and undertalented players in early.

If the transfer window does end in disappointment, then that's a debate for when it happens not 30 days beforehand.

Is that you Trap?

ThunbergsAreGo

I hope we enjoy Suarez this year feel he will be hounded out

Turtyturd

hefferboi wrote: »

The booing is some joke. Whole English media is a joke.

The fact that some of the droolers on this forum buy into it and jump on the bandwagon says a lot.

hefferboi

naughtb4 wrote: »

I hope we enjoy Suarez this year feel he will be hounded out

Can definitely see it happening. Lawrenson is a joke too. "he was squeeling before he hit the floor" on the foul on Suarez.

ThunbergsAreGo

Its persecution of an individual by a mass of people, the mob mentality in full force yet totally ignored by the media

He has a family and seems such a family man off the pitch, it must be awful for them

People using "Hes an awful person" argument need to have a look at themselves, their own team and their own behavior before branding him as such.

Id love him to score a hat trick tonight to shut them up, i also want him back though

Super-Rush

hefferboi wrote: »

Can definitely see it happening. Lawrenson is a joke too. "he was squeeling before he hit the floor" on the foul on Suarez.

That wasn't Suarez who was fouled, it was the number 16.

But yeah Lawro is fcuking terrible.

ThunbergsAreGo

Anyone know where to find the Liverpool squad for Gomel?

Red Crow

naughtb4 wrote: »

Its persecution of an individual by a mass of people, the mob mentality in full force yet totally ignored by the media

He has a family and seems such a family man off the pitch, it must be awful for them

People using "Hes an awful person" argument need to have a look at themselves, their own team and their own behavior before branding him as such.

Id love him to score a hat trick tonight to shut them up, i also want him back though

He did himself no favours with that conspiracy against him and Liverpool stuff recently. I don't think he comes across well on the pitch or off it. He's still trying to create this siege mentality. I don't think he would of come across so badly had the whole t-shirt thing and staunch defence not occurred. Sure Ronaldo was booed across English grounds after the World Cup 2006. He played excellent the season after and everybody still booed him. He should just shut up and let his feet do the talking.

hefferboi

Wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Gomel

And Goal.com possible line up:

Bushma
Matveychik, Kirilchik, Kaveshki, Kilmovich
Vornonkov, Kozeka
Nowak, Levitski, Platonov;
Demidovich

klose

Coates is causing problems for gb in the air from set pieces, reckon he'll score if they get a few more frees/corners. Forgot how tall he is!