Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

Francie Barrett

Mr Alan wrote: »

There is if Joe Cole is going to be a feature of the team.

Joe Cole played at a much, much higher level than Pacheco did last season, so it's silly to compare them,

punk_one82

naughtb4 wrote: »

Its on Setanta 1, so at best you have it and at worst it will be on in a pub

Its sad im starting to get excited about a game against Gomel

Pub? Worst? Does not compute. Same, roll on the league!

~Rebel~

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Joe Cole played at a much, much higher level than Pacheco did last season, so it's silly to compare them,

You're right. It is silly to compare them.
Pacheco's best days are ahead of him - Joe's are behind him.
One has a future, the other nothing but a past.
One costs a fraction of the other in wages.

One should stay, and one should go. Unfortunately, it seems we're backing the wrong horse.

Sappy404

opr wrote: »

Young, technically good, wants to prove himself and as you say low wages. It will be boil my blood watching Cole pull on a Liverpool shirt if we move Dani on without giving him any kind of a chance.

Opr

Leiva wrote: »

Pacheco + £ = Allen. maybe ?

But as someone else said if I I have to look at Joe Cole pissing and panting around the pitch after letting Danny leave then I will go nuts.

Mr Alan wrote: »

There is if Joe Cole is going to be a feature of the team.

Make no mistake, Joe Cole is still at the club because of his enormous wages. If on September 1st Joe is still there and Dani isn't, it's not simply because Rodgers thinks one is worth keeping and the other isn't.

Francie Barrett

~Rebel~ wrote: »

It is silly to compare them.
Pacheco's best days are ahead of him - Joe's are behind him.
One has a future, the other nothing but a past.
One costs a fraction of the other in wages.

One should stay, and one should go. Unfortunately, it seems we're backing the wrong horse.

Cole isn't going to leave because he is on a megabucks contract. The only way we can get rid is to pay him off. It's pointless letting a player go if you've already paid his wages for the next two years.

If Pacheco was British, no one would give a damn if he was let go. He is nearly 22 and still playing with the kids for fecks sake.

murpho999

All the talk of Joe Cole must be gone by transfer window close, good player or not he has a contract with LFC and they are legally bound to comply with it.

People saying that he should be gone etc but it's not that straight forward as you'd have to buy a willing buyer, not likely unless he drops his wage demands or at the very least lend him but still have a wages hit.

hefferboi

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Cole isn't going to leave because he is on a megabucks contract. The only way we can get rid is to pay him off. It's pointless letting a player go if you've already paid his wages for the next two years.

If Pacheco was British, no one would give a damn if he was let go. He is nearly 22 and still playing with the kids for fecks sake.

If Pacheco was british, we'd have paid 20 million to get him and he'd be on 80k a week.

Kess73

naughtb4 wrote: »

Remember the big deal was made over a small pocket of Liverpool supporting idiots booing the national anthem at Wembley?

Well now a whole stadium did it? will any thing happen? will it ****. It wasnt even mentioned at half time, yet congratulations was given to the Welsh for not booing the Team Great Britiain anthem

This harassing of Suarez is the medias fault as they knwo they influence they have over the knuckle dragging majority

Sad to hear about Pacheco I hope Rogers isnt another one with a little Englander mentality

When it suits the British media any noise during a National anthem is a big deal.


But British folk booing and disrespecting another national anthem is fine and brushed under the carpet.

The Suarez stuff has become an utter joke. The media still hounds him yet I see no similar level of hounding for Terry or Ferdinand despite them both being charged with the same offence by the FA, and I see no hounding of Frimpong despite him being charged for his anti- Semitic comment on Twitter.

5starpool

I really can't see Suarez at the club in 12 months time unfortunately, although he may stay if we somehow get top 4, which is a long enough shot to be honest. I also fully expect Joe Cole to start tonight, and more often than most of us would want to see. I really want the season proper to start in just over 2 weeks, but at the same time I'm very apprehensive about it as well. I'm trying not to comment too much about the transfer activity, or lack thereof as there is a lot of noise being made on it, but suffice to say it'd need to get going in a good direction soon. I'm sick of all the rumours of players in/out at this stage, but that's what happens this time of year I guess.

noodler

It really is shocking condemnation of our youth setup. None of these talented foreigners we sign as kids ever seem to make the step up. Pacheco and Nemeth being two from recent memory.

When is the last time an attacking player has come through since Gerrard?

Hell only Carra has been a definite keeper.

Hopefully Kelly and Spearing can make the grade consistently (obviously have more hope for Kelly).

ThunbergsAreGo

punk_one82 wrote: »

Pub? Worst? Does not compute. Same, roll on the league!

Hey its recession Starts at 7 though so quick home from work!

I even wore red to work today haha not sure why, must be the subconcious acting again

kingshankly

~Rebel~ wrote: »

You're right. It is silly to compare them.
Pacheco's best days are ahead of him - Joe's are behind him.
One has a future, the other nothing but a past.
One costs a fraction of the other in wages.

One should stay, and one should go. Unfortunately, it seems we're backing the wrong horse.

Pacheco might never have a best day has yet to convince any manager he is worth keeping obviously the people close to him don't rate him

murpho999

Kess73 wrote: »

When it suits the British media any noise during a National anthem is a big deal.


But British folk booing and disrespecting another national anthem is fine and brushed under the carpet.

The Suarez stuff has become an utter joke. The media still hounds him yet I see no similar level of hounding for Terry or Ferdinand despite them both being charged with the same offence by the FA, and I see no hounding of Frimpong despite him being charged for his anti- Semitic comment on Twitter.

Seems to a British habit though Kess, heard at plenty of other team events when GB is involved. I find it terrible.

ThunbergsAreGo

Kess73 wrote: »

When it suits the British media any noise during a National anthem is a big deal.


But British folk booing and disrespecting another national anthem is fine and brushed under the carpet.

The Suarez stuff has become an utter joke. The media still hounds him yet I see no similar level of hounding for Terry or Ferdinand despite them both being charged with the same offence by the FA, and I see no hounding of Frimpong despite him being charged for his anti- Semitic comment on Twitter.

But he denied brave Ghana a place in the world cup semi final and had the temerity to celebrate it (which all of us would have done!)

Actually think i will write to the BBC on this

Cartman78

opr wrote: »

Reports that we're trying to get a loan deal for Borini back to Roma. Looks like we stuck him on 100k a week which may be a problem but Ayre has said we will stump up 80% if they can do the rest.

Opr

Not only did I believe this on first reading, I wasn't actually that shocked by it

Seemed to fit perfectly in line with the squandering we've done with Cole, Aquaman and (probably) Carroll.

skydish79

Those booing Suarez are gonna keep doing it if they know they are going to get a reaction of him

It was absolutely ridiculous to hear them booing him during the Olympics, it will continue during the premiership all I hope is it doesnt piss him of to the extent that he wants to leave the club

Grayditch

If he goes through the season without reaction or incident, it will stop. It's ridiculous and teams should be fined for their fans behaviour if it continues.

kingshankly

Grayditch wrote: »

If he goes through the season without reaction or incident, it will stop. It's ridiculous and teams should be fined for their fans behaviour if it continues.

Are you serious fine teams for their fans booing arre you for real what's the point in having a home game

_blank_

Grayditch wrote: »

teams should be fined for their fans behaviour if it continues.

lolz

missingtime

Lads its pantomime...the crowd haven't had a "bad guy" since Ronaldo, now they have Suarez.

Let just hope Suarez reacts in the same way Ronaldo did.

jaykay74

Grayditch wrote: »

It's ridiculous and teams should be fined for their fans behaviour if it continues.

Do you mean for booing opposing players

mike65

A few different places are reporting Joe Allen imminent.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2182489/Joe-Allen-agrees-terms-Liverpool.html

kingshankly

Never mind the hilsborough and Munich singing at utd / Liverpool games it's that booing we really need to stamp out

machiavellianme

missingtime wrote: »

Lads its pantomime...the crowd haven't had a "bad guy" since Ronaldo, now they have Suarez.

Let just hope Suarez reacts in the same way Ronaldo did.

By leaving for Madrid? I hope not

missingtime

machiavellianme wrote: »

By leaving for Madrid? I hope not

By scoring all round him! And hey, if we get 60 million for him how bad

Kess73

missingtime wrote: »

By scoring all round him! And hey, if we get 60 million for him how bad

Seem to remember the last time we got huge money for a player we went out and spent it on a substandard replacement.


Much prefer to have a quality player at the club than the money he might bring in by selling him.

noodler

Grayditch wrote: »

If he goes through the season without reaction or incident, it will stop. It's ridiculous and teams should be fined for their fans behaviour if it continues.

There is no other alternative.

Club has to be responsible for it.

missingtime

Kess73 wrote: »

Seem to remember the last time we got huge money for a player we went out and spent it on a substandard replacement.


Much prefer to have a quality player at the club than the money he might bring in by selling him.

I knew someone would pick up on that :pac:

Kess73

missingtime wrote: »

I knew someone would pick up on that :pac:

It was blood in the water, I had to react.

D'Agger

What would £12 for Allen and Shelvey on loan do for most on here? - if the rumours are to be believed that is.

Would be happy to see Shelvey go on loan to Swansea - whether he'll get his game regularly is another thing but I'd like to think he would. I still don't know if we need Allen.

Will it be Lucas & Allen with Gerrard ahead with Henderson and Adam as backup? If Shelvey goes on loan then we're down a player to play AM unless we sign somebody as backup (Dempsey?) or we use Pacheco/Suso in that role.

Not sure where I see BR going with this transfer tbh

Crash Bang Wall

There was a twitter rumour last nite that Sinclair could be on his way to Sunderland. In that case Raheem on loan (till at least xmas) may be an option that suits both parties. From what I can gather he was a LW rather than RW for the reserves.

If our MF options are Lucas/Gerrard/Allen/Henderson/Shelvey next season I dont want to see Shelvey going out on loan.......Im making the assumptions we flog Adam/Aquaman/Spearing and get Allen if its not obvious

Nuttzz

PaulieC wrote: »

Not sure where I see BR going with this transfer tbh

He's a player who understands how BR wants to play.

He'd do well, flog Adam & Henderson and Jonjo on loan is a good move for him, he did well at blackpool and regular PL game time wont hurt

segadreamcast

Joe Allen is basically the long-term replacement for Steven Gerrard - and is something we need to begin thinking about now, at this stage. Stevie will be grand for this season, and probably next, but we're definitely approaching/in the autumn of his career now - so it needs to be thought about! I don't know if Joe Allen is the answer, but it's definitely a question that needs to be approached at some stage soon.

On another note, I've been dipping in and out of this thread, but notice no talk of Ramirez anymore? Has it been completely discounted by everybody here?

D'Agger

Nuttzz wrote: »

He's a player who understands how BR wants to play.

He'd do well, flog Adam & Henderson and Jonjo on loan is a good move for him, he did well at blackpool and regular PL game time wont hurt

That wasn't my question - I'm wondering where he'll fit in with the current squad , position, who'll be on the bench etc.

Selling Henderson isn't a good idea either tbh - Rodgers has spoken highly of him already so I see him being used by him.

segadreamcast

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Pacheco leaving isn't that big of a deal when you look at it. He has been at the club for 5 years, has been given a few chances at loan, and so far hasn't really delivered. Yes he is gifted and yes he is committed to the club. but then again, Ryan Babel ticked those boxes and look where he is now. If Brendan Rodgers has looked at the likes of Ibe, Suso and Sterling and thinks these guys have better prospects, then there isn't much point leaving Pacheco to rot in the reserves for another year.

Have to agree with this one incidentally. Buckets of potential, but I've been watching him for ages now - and remember talking about him two years ago after 2010 U19 championship - and it's just been largely very disappointing. I'm not quite sure where it went wrong but it reminds me a bit of N'Gog in a sense, though on a much greater scale in terms of disappointment.

D'Agger

NoelRock wrote: »

Joe Allen is basically the long-term replacement for Steven Gerrard - and is something we need to begin thinking about now, at this stage. Stevie will be grand for this season, and probably next, but we're definitely approaching/in the autumn of his career now - so it needs to be thought about! I don't know if Joe Allen is the answer, but it's definitely a question that needs to be approached at some stage soon.

On another note, I've been dipping in and out of this thread, but notice no talk of Ramirez anymore? Has it been completely discounted by everybody here?

Would see Allen as a holding player - Shelvey is more in the Gerrard mould imo - good passer, physically strong, just needs time to develop but at 20 he's a brilliant prospect.

LuckyLloyd

PaulieC wrote: »

What would £12 for Allen and Shelvey on loan do for most on here? - if the rumours are to be believed that is.

Would be happy to see Shelvey go on loan to Swansea - whether he'll get his game regularly is another thing but I'd like to think he would. I still don't know if we need Allen.

Will it be Lucas & Allen with Gerrard ahead with Henderson and Adam as backup? If Shelvey goes on loan then we're down a player to play AM unless we sign somebody as backup (Dempsey?) or we use Pacheco/Suso in that role.

Not sure where I see BR going with this transfer tbh

Make me mad? Bringing in Allen is one thing, but bringing him in and letting a talented young guy breaking into the rotation go at the same time seems, well...pointless? Shelvey should stay at Liverpool and start 25 - 30 games this year imo.

LuckyLloyd

Nuttzz wrote: »

He's a player who understands how BR wants to play.

He'd do well, flog Adam & Henderson and Jonjo on loan is a good move for him, he did well at blackpool and regular PL game time wont hurt

So who the **** will we have to play in the middle then?

Leiva

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So who the **** will we have to play in the middle then?

True.

If we have any sense then anyone going on loan/sell in the Allen deal should be Adam.

Yes he was relatively cheap but we have seen his all- the same cant be said for the likes of Jordan, Jonjo, Danny.

Maybe Jay falls under the same criteria as Adam.

Nuttzz

PaulieC wrote: »

That wasn't my question - I'm wondering where he'll fit in with the current squad , position, who'll be on the bench etc.

Selling Henderson isn't a good idea either tbh - Rodgers has spoken highly of him already so I see him being used by him.

I didnt say sell henderson, I said flog him!

I would see Lucas and Gerrard holding with Allen ahead of them, he does like to get forward and SG is only going to get slower and would be better for the holding role for the next few seasons.

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Make me mad? Bringing in Allen is one thing, but bringing him in and letting a talented young guy breaking into the rotation go at the same time seems, well...pointless? Shelvey should stay at Liverpool and start 25 - 30 games this year imo.

In what position? Do you see him and Gerrard sharing the CAM position maybe? What with Gerrard's injury track record that would kinda make sense but it would be a big gamble to have Shelvey as the main back up for that position.

If the 25 - 30 starts is in CM then what is the point of Henderson?


Lucas is a given in CM, and I think it is a no brainer that we need at least one midfielder in that is good enough to become a first team regular straight away.

I think that Gerrard will play between 20 and 25 games this season given his injury record.

So if Lucas stays injury free we can expect him to get 40+ starts if we progress in a cup or two. We should expect the new midfielder to do likewise. Gerrard should manage 20-25 (maybe more in the unlikely event he avoids injuries.

I don't really see room for Shelvey to get 25 -30 starts and also be able to give Henderson a good number of starts also, there simply won't be enough games.

Shelvey might get 25 -30 appearances this season, but no way can I see him getting 25-30 starts.

Kess73

Nuttzz wrote: »

I didnt say sell henderson, I said flog him!

I would see Lucas and Gerrard holding with Allen ahead of them, he does like to get forward and SG is only going to get slower and would be better for the holding role for the next few seasons.

Allen is generally a deep lying playmaker who ventures forward rather than being an attacking midfielder.


Makes more sense to play Allen in his best role and have him alongside Lucas and put Gerrard in the advanced role with instructions to stay in the final third as often as possible.


Put simply, Gerrard is better in an attacking role than Allen is, and Allen is better in a deep playmaker role than Gerrard is, so does not make sense to play them in the role the other is better at.

LuckyLloyd

We've never just PLAYED Pacheo for an extended period, had him in the first team rotation and see what he can offer over a stretch. Now more than ever we have the opportunity to do that. People need a dose of realism, they aren't seeing the fact that we have genuine squad depth issues right now:

Bellamy

---

Carroll

---

Suarez
Downing

---

Borrini

---

Cole

---

Gerrard

---

---

Shelvey

---

---

Lucas

---

Henderson

---

---

Spearing

---

Adam

---

38 League Games
Likely 8 Europa League Games minimum all before Christmas
Up to 4 League Cup games before Christmas

The above depth chart contains two players prone to regular niggles at this stage of their career; one player returning from an extremely serious long term injury;

Don't forget that Carroll, Bellamy and Cole are hardly certs to be here August 31

Seems a perfect season to have Pacheo, Suso and Sterling in and around the first 11. They are cheap and they have upside, ****ing keep them and see what they can do.

Getting rid of players because their contracts are deemed to offer poor value is one thing, but there is still a season to get through. Irrespective of quality (and the above depth chart clearly isn't good enough imo), we need bodies!

Nuttzz

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So who the **** will we have to play in the middle then?

Lucas, SG, Allen*, Aquaman, Spearing are left, you could probably look at Cole in the centre as well, if those 5 didnt suit.

*assuming he signs

klose

Ah ill be gutted if pacheco leaves, really hoped he'd get a chance! Hopefuly the Suso situation will be sorted atleast for now it looks like sterling has made the first team.
Is this ibe lad one for the future too? Also isint there that young Easter European lad we signed in the reserves? Atleast there still seems to be good talent coming through.

Also no way can hendo and shelvey go on loan this season, reckon they've a big one in em!

D'Agger

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Make me mad? Bringing in Allen is one thing, but bringing him in and letting a talented young guy breaking into the rotation go at the same time seems, well...pointless? Shelvey should stay at Liverpool and start 25 - 30 games this year imo.

If I thought Shelvey would get more game time at Swansea and meant we didn't have to pay £15m for Allen I'm not sure I'd be too disappointed with it tbh. I really like Shelvey and want to see him play as much as possible, but if his chances are limited again this season he may start getting annoyed and look to move - it's a possibility.

Allen isn't worth £15m - even 12 is a bit high imo but if we bring in a player to anchor midfield and Shelvey comes back to us in better shape to ultimately replace Gerrard having more PL games and experience under his belt then I'd be for it.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So who the **** will we have to play in the middle then?

Spearings got it covered don't be worrying

LuckyLloyd

Kess73 wrote: »

In what position? Do you see him and Gerrard sharing the CAM position maybe? What with Gerrard's injury track record that would kinda make sense but it would be a big gamble to have Shelvey as the main back up for that position.

If the 25 - 30 starts is in CM then what is the point of Henderson?


Lucas is a given in CM, and I think it is a no brainer that we need at least one midfielder in that is good enough to become a first team regular straight away.

I think that Gerrard will play between 20 and 25 games this season given his injury record.

So if Lucas stays injury free we can expect him to get 40+ starts if we progress in a cup or two. We should expect the new midfielder to do likewise. Gerrard should manage 20-25 (maybe more in the unlikely event he avoids injuries.

I don't really see room for Shelvey to get 25 -30 starts and also be able to give Henderson a good number of starts also, there simply won't be enough games.

Shelvey might get 25 -30 appearances this season, but no way can I see him getting 25-30 starts.

When Gerrard isn't fit, you play Shelvey.

When Henderson isn't fit, you give Shelvey the minutes before Adam

Even if you sign Allen, I think there is plenty of game time there for him. Rather go to bat with Shelvey than spend £10m+ on a player who isn't good enough to play for a top four side. Shelvey may be good enough in a few years. Let's find out imo...

LuckyLloyd

Nuttzz wrote: »

I didnt say sell henderson, I said flog him!

I would see Lucas and Gerrard holding with Allen ahead of them, he does like to get forward and SG is only going to get slower and would be better for the holding role for the next few seasons.

Gerrard should not play as a central / holding midfielder for us - even as he gets older. Totti does his thing at Roma behind the strikers. Play Gerrard in the position he is best at. If anything, age limits his ability to help us in a central role...

LuckyLloyd

Nuttzz wrote: »

Lucas, SG, Allen*, Aquaman, Spearing are left, you could probably look at Cole in the centre as well, if those 5 didnt suit.

*assuming he signs

Aqualaini is not going to be a Liverpool player this season. Joe Cole wheezing it up in a central position? No way hombre.

So Lucas, SG, Allen and Spearing to get us through the season?

GOOD JOB, GOOD EFFORT.

Nuttzz

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Aqualaini is not going to be a Liverpool player this season. Joe Cole wheezing it up in a central position? No way hombre.

So Lucas, SG, Allen and Spearing to get us through the season?

GOOD JOB, GOOD EFFORT.

So you'd really really really really want to hang to on Adam?

Those are 5 current options, I dont see an embargo on Liverpool signing more players should they get rid of adam, cole, aqua and even henderson