Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

kingshankly

If enrique is liverpools number 1 choice for left full were ****ed the chap hasn't a clue and is possible the stupidest footballer I have seen constantly makes wrong decisions and when he goes forward just open the gate
Jesus when i look back on kennys signings I shiver

rossc007

kingshankly wrote: »

If enrique is liverpools number 1 choice for left full were ****ed the chap hasn't a clue and is possible the stupidest footballer I have seen constantly makes wrong decisions and when he goes forward just open the gate
Jesus when i look back on kennys signings I shiver

When did Enrique become ****?? He was one of our better players last season. He's been a fantastic signing imo. Granted hes been poison in the 2 games Ive seen him in but Id put it down to a dip in form or holiday hangover more than anything else.

What is up with our fans berating every player before the season has started No wonder "the jersey is heavy" when our own fans don't support.

kingshankly

rossc007 wrote: »

When did Enrique become ****?? He was one of our better players last season. He's been a fantastic signing imo. Granted hes been poison in the 2 games Ive seen him in but Id put it down to a dip in form or holiday hangover more than anything else.

What is up with our fans berating every player before the season has started No wonder "the jersey is heavy" when our own fans don't support.

Just because you criticise a player doesn't mean you dont support the team. I go to 8/10 games a year and have for 25 years.
The chap has been terrible since feb he isn't good enough it's quite simple his distribution and contribution going forward is nil.
Added to the fact he gets caught out defensively too much.
Has great power and pace but for me that's it
I believe it's a myth that he was a good signing

Jesus Wept

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Whats an excellent season by his standards? He's the epitome of averageness and represents where we are as a club at the moment. 20m euros in the bin.

aaronh007 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3rB5r6DWt4

Hail the man, the myth, the legend who is outscoring both Messi and Ronaldo this season!

Found his level

Milkers

Just on the talk of Rodger's "system", tiki-taka etc. it must be pointed out that Liverpool's early attempts at it have been awful. Slowly and painfully passing the ball between the back four and Spearing usually until you run out of options is not tiki taka it's the same ****e any English team routinely does to waste time in the second half of a game they are leading.

murpho999

Milkers wrote: »

Just on the talk of Rodger's "system", tiki-taka etc. it must be pointed out that Liverpool's early attempts at it have been awful. Slowly and painfully passing the ball between the back four and Spearing usually until you run out of options is not tiki taka it's the same ****e any English team routinely does to waste time in the second half of a game they are leading.

The bolded part is the reason.

It takes a lot of games for a team to adjust to a new system.

The quick to judge here is incredible.

hefferboi

I only saw from 70 mins till the end and we played the ball from midfield to the back where carra got caught and had to give it to Jones who booted it long and we had to work to win it back again. This happened twice but Jones must have hit it long at least 5 times when under no pressure. You wouldn't see that on a sunday morning 4th division match.

I'll be patient though seeing as Agger and Reina are about 5x the ball players Carra and Jones are.

tok9

Enrique's form has dropped worryingly since around January. He seriously needs to pick it up or Rodgers needs to give him a kick up the arse by giving Robinson a game here and there.

NEDDURC

Any positives from last night? I only saw highlights as I was working late.

The following woud seem positive to me:
-Clean sheet (maybe fortunate).
-Downing's goal. Playing on the right seems to suit him.
-Sterling getting 70mins. Got on ahead of others and looks a handful at times.
-Borini's attitude and workrate.

tok9

Actually, what was Cole's injury? If he's out for a while we have no choice but to keep him

klose

I think Enrique badly needs competition for lb, atm he's probably the first name on the team sheet because of that alone, I think Robinson is the only other lb and he's still very young.
Didnt riise say his form dipped here due to lack of competition for his place?

Francie Barrett

murpho999 wrote: »

The bolded part is the reason.

It takes a lot of games for a team to adjust to a new system.

The quick to judge here is incredible.

People don't seem to realise that the lads are still in pre-season, that they haven't reached match fitness, they've had to travel, they're playing a team well into their season, and that they are adopting an entirely new system. Also, we started without the two anchors that are expected to form the spine of the Rodgers system (Allen and Lucas). With Spearing and Henderson playing instead, it was always going to be more difficult.

Francie Barrett

tok9 wrote: »

Actually, what was Cole's injury? If he's out for a while we have no choice but to keep him

Rodgers isn't concerned that it is too bad. A bit of tightness rather than it being pulled badly.

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/163384.html

Leiva

Francie Barrett wrote: »

People don't seem to realise that the lads are still in pre-season, that they haven't reached match fitness, they've had to travel, they're playing a team well into their season, and that they are adopting an entirely new system. Also, we started without the two anchors that are expected to form the spine of the Rodgers system (Allen and Lucas). With Spearing and Henderson playing instead, it was always going to be more difficult.

True but two things ...

1.) Joe Allen is not a Liverpool player

2.) fitness or not playing a passing game should not be effected to the level we seen last night .

gafferino

lads didnt see any of the game.....how was Borini over all?

Anyone know when Luis is back in training?

kippy

murpho999 wrote: »

The bolded part is the reason.

It takes a lot of games for a team to adjust to a new system.

The quick to judge here is incredible.

It's pretty obvious that Rodgers is going to have to spend a not insignificent amount of time getting players in that play this system or adapting the current players to do it.
It's also pretty obvious, that if things aren't going well come Christmas he'll be under serious pressure (and with the fixture list as it is, he hasn't gotten the best games to spend time adapting players)

Francie Barrett

Leiva wrote: »

True but two things ...

1.) Joe Allen is not a Liverpool player

Whether it's Joe Allen or someone else, Rodgers will be bringing in a new player to partner Lucas.

Leiva

gafferino wrote: »

lads didnt see any of the game.....how was Borini over all?

Anyone know when Luis is back in training?

He didn't get much of the ball but what I did like about him is that he is busy little player in the final third similar to Suarez.

He runs from box to half way, and by-line to by-line closing down space and defenders.

I can see him and Suarez getting a bit of luck together- nicking balls from defenders and working hard closing down space and forcing errors, and with a strong midfield behind I can see opponents being put under lots of pressure in their final third.

LuckyLloyd

Enrique is a disaster zone at present, and has been since January. Johnson left back and Kelly right for me at present.

LuckyLloyd

I think I might like Borrini if last night's work rate is his regular MO. Big Heart potential.

Francie Barrett

kippy wrote: »

It's pretty obvious that Rodgers is going to have to spend a not insignificent amount of time getting players in that play this system or adapting the current players to do it.
It's also pretty obvious, that if things aren't going well come Christmas he'll be under serious pressure (and with the fixture list as it is, he hasn't gotten the best games to spend time adapting players)

No doubt.

We have to give Rodgers time though. If it was so easy to adopt tiki-taka and start playing like Barcelona, then all teams would be doing it. The important thing is that Rodgers gets this football club moving in the right direction. As long as we see progress, we should support the man.

Leiva

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Enrique is a disaster zone at present, and has been since January. Johnson left back and Kelly right for me at present.

I know Woy got slated for telling his back four (Agger etc) to just ****ing hoof it, but at times I wish Jose would clear his lines, or play the obvious ball up the channels.
Last night he would turn into trouble when surrounded by two or three opposition players and no Liverpool players to support - when there was a chance to clear it .

He likes to play ball at feet which is fine (that's what we are trying to achieve as a whole) but he needs to understand when and where to play out of trouble, and be aware of when he has the support players around also .

SlickRic

last night was never going to be able to be high-tempo pressing, so i'd forgive them for that. it is the first competitive game, and one they probably just wanted out of the way.

but the players were just so wasteful.

Gerrard proves again why when we have to dictate a game, he should rarely be a CM.

and Lucas was damn class when he came on. he changed the feel of the entire performance.

kingshankly

There were people on her going mad we got rid of insua(I wasn't one of them) looks like they were right

MD1990

i don't know what has happened Enrique
he has been terrible last few games & in a number of games since January

murpho999

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Enrique is a disaster zone at present, and has been since January. Johnson left back and Kelly right for me at present.

Do you think this is just a loss of form/confidence that could return or is he finished?

Strange how he could go downhill so quickly, he was very good beginning of last season.

LuckyLloyd

murpho999 wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Enrique is a disaster zone at present, and has been since January. Johnson left back and Kelly right for me at present.

Do you think this is just a loss of form/confidence that could return or is he finished?

Strange how he could go downhill so quickly, he was very beginning of last season.

He looks done mate...really needs a big wake up call, i.e. dropped for a period and told to refocus.

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think I might like Borrini if last night's work rate is his regular MO. Big Heart potential.

When he has better technical players around him than last night you will see quite a bit of guile from the kid. But put him in a team that is fairly limited technically and he will try to compensate for lack of sevice by upping his own workrate.

The guy has a great on pitch attitude and has the stamina to compliment that attitude.

Have no worries about signing him tbh, and I think he is a ready made replacement for Dirk's workrate.

Will be nice to have a second attacker in the team with a high workrate, the other being Suarez, but who also has the brains to link up well with clever players.

skydish79

Kess73 wrote: »

When he has better technical players around him than last night you will see quite a bit of guile from the kid. But put him in a team that is fairly limited technically and he will try to compensate for lack of sevice by upping his own workrate.

The guy has a great on pitch attitude and has the stamina to compliment that attitude.

Have no worries about signing him tbh, and I think he is a ready made replacement for Dirk's workrate.

Will be nice to have a second attacker in the team with a high workrate, the other being Suarez, but who also has the brains to link up well with clever players.

Would be great to add a midfielder to pick out their clever runs

Tusky

murpho999 wrote: »

Do you think this is just a loss of form/confidence that could return or is he finished?

Strange how he could go downhill so quickly, he was very beginning of last season.

Finished? Get a grip. I have no doubt Enrique will find his form again. He's only been a Liverpool player for about a year and for at least half that time he's been one of our best performers. I almost think players that find their feet quickly do themselves no favours, as they are then expected to continue that form. If you put Enrique into a team that works and surround him with quality players, he will improve. His dip in form coincided with the whole team going tits up last season.

SlickRic

murpho999 wrote: »

Do you think this is just a loss of form/confidence that could return or is he finished?

he was a jokeshop before his one amazing season for the Toon before we bought him.

i'd be fearful that this is his actual normal level of performance.

i'd really hope I'm wrong because for 18 months, he really was one of the best LBs in the league. i remain hopeful though, as he has the physical attributes. he just needs to get his head out of his arse.

Kess73

skydish79 wrote: »

Would be great to add a midfielder to pick out their clever runs

Would love to see both a CM and an AM who are technically very good to arrive to be honest so we could really make the most of Suarez and Borini.

People like to say that many of our surrent midfield options are smart players with guile and whatnot, but they are either very blinkered or just have no idea as to the difference between players of true guile and game intelligence and some of what we currently have.

Melion

SlickRic wrote: »

he was a jokeshop before his one amazing season for the Toon before we bought him.

i'd be fearful that this is his actual normal level of performance.

i'd really hope I'm wrong because for 18 months, he really was one of the best LBs in the league. i remain hopeful though, as he has the physical attributes. he just needs to get his head out of his arse.

How much did you see him before he signed for newcastle?

Kess73

SlickRic wrote: »

he was a jokeshop before his one amazing season for the Toon before we bought him.

i'd be fearful that this is his actual normal level of performance.

i'd really hope I'm wrong because for 18 months, he really was one of the best LBs in the league. i remain hopeful though, as he has the physical attributes. he just needs to get his head out of his arse.

His last season with Newcastle was a good one alright, but the season before that saw him pick up their player of the season award so he must have done something right that season as well rather than being a jokeshop like you say he was.

Melion

Kess73 wrote: »

His last season with Newcastle was a good one alright, but the season before that saw him pick up their player of the season award so he must have done something right that season as well rather than being a jokeshop like you say he was.

The fact he was 21 when he signed for newcastle is another reason calling him a jokeshop is absolutely ridiculous.

Kess73

Melion wrote: »

The fact he was 21 when he signed for newcastle is another reason calling him a jokeshop is absolutely ridiculous.

Would agree with that. I was always under the impression that he was well rated during his first two seasons at Newcastle as a bit part player, and then his final two seasons as a first teamer saw him as a good performer for that club.

Would be interested to hear the view of some of the Newcastle fans that come into this thread like That Guy.

Tusky

SlickRic wrote: »

he was a jokeshop before his one amazing season for the Toon before we bought him.

i'd be fearful that this is his actual normal level of performance.

i'd really hope I'm wrong because for 18 months, he really was one of the best LBs in the league. i remain hopeful though, as he has the physical attributes. he just needs to get his head out of his arse.

Jokeshop? He was among their best players during his last two season at the club. And before that he was a young player (20/21) playing in a foreign country and a new league (and in a very disjointed team). I just can't agree with that.

NEDDURC

Hopefully there is significant movement this week in terms of finalising the Carroll and Aquilani situations and move closer to bringing in Allen and Dempsey.

Would be great to have made these moves before next weeks return match so they can at least play in our last friendly.

SlickRic

Kess73 wrote: »

His last season with Newcastle was a good one alright, but the season before that saw him pick up their player of the season award so he must have done something right that season as well rather than being a jokeshop like you say he was.

i'm getting my years wrong then...2 years rolled into 1.

i could've sworn his last season for Newcastle was the season he won their POTY.

and i swore he was ridiculed for his performances when he arrived at the Toon. i remember watching some of them.

i'm getting old

LuckyLloyd

I don't care about his history in the same way that I don't care how good Pepe Reina was in 2008. His current level of performance is extremely concerning and he does not deserve to start games for us at present.

hefferboi

Just looked at Enrique's wiki page. This made me lol.

"On 1 April 2012, he played in goal for the remainder of their game vs Newcastle United, keeping a clean sheet in the process, at St James' Park after Pepe Reina was sent off after an incident involving himself and Newcastle defender James Perch, as Liverpool had used all of their substitutions which prevented them from introducing their backup. Newcastle won the match 2–0. He became the only goalkeeper in the premier league to not have conceded a goal in his entire career."

Seamu$

Kess73 wrote: »

Would love to see both a CM and an AM who are technically very good to arrive to be honest so we could really make the most of Suarez and Borini.

People like to say that many of our surrent midfield options are smart players with guile and whatnot, but they are either very blinkered or just have no idea as to the difference between players of true guile and game intelligence and some of what we currently have.

Assuming Allen is the CM, what AM would you go with (realistically)?

Personally, I'd be more inclined to go with a wide AM like Affelay, Tello or Ramirez and let either Suarez or Gerrard play the CAM role. Either way, I wouldn't mind seeing Gerrard, Suarez & a new player playing in an interchangeable 3 behind Borini in a 4-2-3-1. Downing & Sterling as cover. Borini presumably can drop back into the "3" if Carroll (or his replacement if he's moved on) are playing up top.

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't care about his history in the same way that I don't care how good Pepe Reina was in 2008. His current level of performance is extremely concerning and he does not deserve to start games for us at present.

Who would you replace him with from our current squad?


Also if we are judging players on their pre season form, then a lot more than Enrique should not be starting games.

FernandoTorres

Enrique will be fine, just going through a bit of a bad patch. I think people are just looking for any excuse to get annoyed at the moment.

Milkers

Kess73 wrote: »

Who would you replace him with from our current squad?


Also if we are judging players on their pre season form, then a lot more than Enrique should not be starting games.

He already said play Johnson on the left and Kelly on the right. I'd fully agree with that at the moment. I've never seen a player go from being so good to so bad in such a relatively short period of time. Before Christmas last year Enrique was scary good, now he's just scary.

Kess73

Seamu$ wrote: »

Assuming Allen is the CM, what AM would you go with (realistically)?

Personally, I'd be more inclined to go with a wide AM like Affelay, Tello or Ramirez and let either Suarez or Gerrard play the CAM role. Either way, I wouldn't mind seeing Gerrard, Suarez & a new player playing in an interchangeable 3 behind Borini in a 4-2-3-1. Downing & Sterling as cover. Borini presumably can drop back into the "3" if Carroll (or his replacement if he's moved on) are playing up top.

I can think of far better CMs than Allen for the money being quoted tbh.

But if we are using Allen as the CM, then what about Dembele as the AM? Talented player who can also cover in the wide forward, second striker, and CM roles.

I picked Dembele on price, well at least what I think he would be worth, and the fact he is very good in the AM role. He speaks english, is strong, game smart, and suits a passing game. He is also in the last year of his contract.

I have my usual list of names that I could throw out, but I don't think anyone could argue against Dembele being a realistic target in terms of cost, availabilty, and not being at a club with European footy.


Would be quite happy to see your sugestion of Affley for one of the wide slots as well.

Kess73

Milkers wrote: »

He already said play Johnson on the left and Kelly on the right. I'd fully agree with that at the moment. I've never seen a player go from being so good to so bad in such a relatively short period of time. Before Christmas last year Enrique was scary good, now he's just scary.

Ah cheers for that. I must have missed his post saying that.

Morzadec

Even considering Reina's position is crazy talk.

There's far more pressing issues that need to be addressed.

Reina wasn't even that bad last season. A couple of clangers but he had plenty of decent games, it's not like he was costing us goals week in week out.

I still believe him to be a top class goalkeeper and one of our key first team players.

Seamu$

Kess73 wrote: »

I can think of far better CMs than Allen for the money being quoted tbh.

But if we are using Allen as the CM, then what about Dembele as the AM? Talented player who can also cover in the wide forward, second striker, and CM roles.

I picked Dembele on price, well at least what I think he would be worth, and the fact he is very good in the AM role. He speaks english, is strong, game smart, and suits a passing game. He is also in the last year of his contract.

I have my usual list of names that I could throw out, but I don't think anyone could argue against Dembele being a realistic target in terms of cost, availabilty, and not being at a club with European footy.


Would be quite happy to see your sugestion of Affley for one of the wide slots as well.

Dembele is a good shout indeed. Was very impressed with him over the last 2 seasons, very creative, but he could probably do with adding a bit more goalscoring prowess to his game perhaps, we would need our entire 'front 4' attacking players to chip in with 10+ goals per season I think.

For the prices being quoted of €6m - €8m I definately think Affelay is worth a punt. Like you, I'm weary of seeing good attacking players being transferred for <£10m like Turan, Shaqiri, Defour, Papiss Cisse, Moussa Sow etc. & we're not even linked with being interested, whilst obviously at the same time we're overpaying for British players.

I'm not so sure about Ramirez or Tello, don't know if either would be guaranteed successes, but we have been linked with them at least.

Regarding CM, it seems to be Allen coming in, regardless of who else we think should be bought or who would represent better value for money. If he dovetails well with Lucas & together they set a good tempo for us and dictate play hopefully he'll work out well and earn his reported transfer fee.

5starpool

I wish we would sign someone who isn't Allen or Dempsey. It's not that I don't think either of them couldn't bring something to the team, but they have already been discussed to death. We need something new to discuss in here, or else it's just going to be the same circular tail chasing that's been going on for weeks now until we get into the season proper.