Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

Realistic terms?

He has two years left.
He has openly said we haven't approached him about a new deal.
He has openly said he is interested in a new deal at the club.

People are dead right to question why we aren't seemingly interested in tying down one of our best players. In fact, the person moving away from the reality of the situation tonight is you in discussing him possibly refusing to sign a new deal in trying to excuse the possibility of selling him.

Firstly, I don't believe anything that comes out of a player/agents mouth, and we've heard nothing from the club.

That aside, I've said we should offer him a new deal and I've said I don't want to sell him. I'm only talking about selling him if a) we offer him a deal and b) he turns it down and wants to leave. I'm just trying to assess all the possibilities.

I'm definitely not excusing selling him without trying to keep him here. If that happens the club had better have a **** hot replacement lined up.

Luckycharms_74

citytillidie wrote: »

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

Look who showed up at the tennis today :P

Zero to do with Liverpool, why not use the picture thread

I deleted my post. Thanks

To not give Agger a contract would speak volumes tbh.

When he isn't playing we look a different team.

I hope the club does the right thing and all this is BS talk.

Chucky the tree

daithijjj wrote: »

What do you say when your chairman says 'we want to increase wages' and then do the opposite?. The cost cutting isn't needed in terms of overall running of the club. The cost cutting is needed because there are players at the club who are not deemed value for their wages.

LFC wages as a % of turnover was in the same bracket as Everton, Fulham and Birmingham City in 09/10, all clubs in the 60-70% bracket.

That made us the 6th most efficient club in the league, with 14 teams having a higher %.......ie, the cost cutting is not needed.

Of course the cost cutting is needed. What kind of deluded land are you living in to think it's not? The fact you tell us that LFC wages was in the same % as teams who never had any success in recent years and even one who were relegated just confirms how badly we need to cut our costs in terms of wages.

opr wrote: »

If Agger won't sign a new contract that's a completely different situation to the one most people are talking about. Everything from Agger and his agent have indicated he's willing to talk to the club about renewing his deal. The thing some of us are worried about is that the club aren't willing to sanction the kind of deal/wages needed to compete with what other clubs will offer him.

Opr

Not sure why you'd be worried tbh. It will be a long time before we can compete with Man City in terms of wages we can offer.

amiable

Laika1986 wrote: »

Again as we all know things do change but i believe Skrtel will sign a new contract..

There is a very good chance Agger will be sold (£20 million plus)

There is interest in Walcott, not sure how strong..

We are trying to sign 4 players plus joe Allen and a loan signing.

Latest from Macca

Who the fcuk is Macca?

Kirby

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Not sure why you'd be worried tbh. It will be a long time before we can compete with Man City in terms of wages we can offer.

Nobody can compete with City and 99% of players and agents wouldn't expect them too. What they do expect is for the club to recognise the situation and negotiate.

Player X says, "City are willing to offer me 150k a week and I'm on 50k at the moment.....let's meet in the middle at 100k" Then the club negotiates down from there to a price they can agree on. Thats what happens at most big clubs.

The problem is when certain clubs play hardball and refuse to negotiate. "This is our offer, This is what we feel you are worth, we have a wage structure, etc. etc.". They don't budge.

The clubs feel it gives them power in negotiating contracts with new players but the problem is, it doesn't work if you want to keep your current best players. You can operate at a decent level but you will always lose your better players and will never progress. Arsenal have been doing it for over 10 years and have finally realised it doesn't work and broke their wage structure by a massive amount to try and keep RVP. United did it with Rooney. He is on over 100k more than anyone else at the club. Spurs have done the same thing for Adebayor.

Getting value for your money is obviously the important bit as you said. Paying big money to the likes of Maxi, Kuyt, Cole, Aquilani, Carragher, Bellamy. Useful players but bit part players when it comes down to it. They aren't your stars so shipping them on is a good idea. That doesn't mean you lowball everybody though. Guys like Agger would be the important players so you pay them the big bucks. They didn't bend on siggurdson when they should have. I think they probably will with Agger.

You have to be willing to bend a little if you want to get your way in the long run. Bend like a limbo stick

Kess73

amiable wrote: »

Who the fcuk is Macca?

Most likely the spoofer from RAWK.

super_furry

I'd hold out for €25millon but I think Agger will be sold. Man City are such an attractive option for players now - both financially and in terms of what they'll be challenging for. Agger's a great player but has been highly injury prone and with Coates ready to step in, if Rogers is given the fee to spend, then it'll hard to see it not happen.

amiable

super_furry wrote: »

I'd hold out for €25millon but I think Agger will be sold. Man City are such an attractive option for players now - both financially and in terms of what they'll be challenging for. Agger's a great player but has been highly injury prone and with Coates ready to step in, if Rogers is given the fee to spend, then it'll hard to see it not happen.

I don't think Coates is ready to step in. If Agger is sold he needs to be replaced IMO.

gafferino

The promise of youth

Respected football writer Paul Tomkins is back on Liverpoolfc.com and in his latest column he examines the promise of youth at Liverpool Football Club...


As a football writer, you have to accept that you will get stuff wrong. Of course, everyone makes mistakes, but for a writer, it stays in black and white. And whereas yesterday's newspapers can become chip wrappings, the internet retains every little folly.

I hope that I've been vaguely correct on the bigger issues, but when it comes to young players breaking through to the first team I've probably got more than my fair share wrong. I guess I'm not alone here; even the coaches themselves often have high hopes for players who just don't push on as expected. Some will get injured; some don't develop physically; others will let the first taste of senior action go to their head.

Whether or not they end up delivering one, young players always represent a bright future. It's easy to project visions of greatness onto certain kids. Of course, even Moneyball - the book-cum-baseball theory that gets mentioned with Liverpool (often erroneously) - centres around an absolutely outstanding young player - Billy Beane - who later realises that he just didn't have the right mentality for the big time; he was too tough on himself, too 'in his head'. He looked the part - tall, handsome - and had great technique. However, looking back, he notes that an inferior peer at the New York Mets went on to have a great career simply because he was more relaxed at the plate.

Many shrewd observers in football note that the age between 19 and 22 is when many players drop off the map. Some simply won't be good enough - it's one thing being good in your age group, but top-flight football is the best of all age groups (and these days, with so many top imports, all worldwide age groups).

However, often it's the lack of competitive football that causes them to stagnate: not good enough for the first team, but in need of experience to improve; and, snared in a catch 22, not going to get that experience because - of course - they are not yet good enough.

The loan system is fairly ideal, in that it lets players gain their heads on someone else's pitch (a kind of reversal of Bob Paisley saying that you let your older players lose their legs on someone else's grass.)

Indeed, the loan system suited new Reds' star Fabio Borini, who did exceptionally well at Swansea under Rodgers in helping seal their promotion to the Premier League in the spring of 2011. At the time, Borini had been on the fringes of the Chelsea first-team squad, and was marked out as a great prospect by Carlo Ancelotti. But by late in 2010-11 the young striker's contract had run low, and despite the Blues wanting to keep him, he opted to move to Italy. A year on, he's 21 and at Liverpool.

However, picking the right club to loan to is clearly important; unless they are very good indeed, the kids probably won't be thrown into a relegation battle or a promotion or title fight. Then there's the worry of loaning them to a team that plays a totally different style of football, where they won't be coached properly and can pick up bad habits.

Like Manchester United, Liverpool were blessed in the '90s with an unusual amount of high-class academy graduates. Both teams have had players come through the ranks in the new millennium, but none have been as exceptional as names like Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Neville, Fowler, Gerrard, McManaman, Owen and Carragher. That batch of players raised expectations for what kids can achieve. And, in particular, Giggs and Owen suggested that it was possible to be a star at 17. (Wayne Rooney subsequently lowered that to 16.)



For every 18 and 19 year old who shows impatience (or fans who do so on their behalf), it's worth noting that Scholes and Beckham didn't make break through until 20. Players with exceptional pace and/or strength tend to progress more quickly, because shortcomings can be disguised with blistering speed. I recall seeing some of Michael Owen's early games, and he gave the ball away, missed chances, drifted offside, ran into defenders, and so on. But if he got away from the last man, he couldn't be caught.

This is possibly the reason that Raheem Sterling - a special talent - is already in the first-team picture. Like the young Owen, he is raw, with lots to learn; but phenomenal pace allows him to terrorise defences. Even if he doesn't yet know when to pass, shoot, cross or check back, he can cause mayhem for others to profit from.

He's the first potential superstar since the '90s, but it can easily go to waste if he doesn't work hard and remain grounded. Plenty of young players have made the first team in their teens, then disappeared off the map.

John Welsh was heralded as an extremely bright prospect. Why didn't Houllier give him the 15-20 games he promised? When was Richie Partridge ever going to be given a game? Anthony Le Tallec was going to be the next big thing. And remember when, to much excitement, Liverpool nearly bought Millwall's 16-year-old goalscoring sensation Cherno Samba?

(Until Googling that saga, my memory suggested it was from the '90s; it was in fact just 10 years ago, and Samba is still only 26. He can currently be found in the Norwegian second division.)

In the summer of 2007, I felt that Paul Anderson - swapped for former bright hope Welsh - would become the pacy flyer we'd been craving. At U18 level he looked sensational, as the Reds won the Youth Cup, and in the March of that year he'd appeared on the bench in the Champions League. But he never went on to make his debut. He's 24 now, and has had a fairly reasonable time in the Championship.

He's a prime example of the gap between youth football and reserve level, and, at a club like Liverpool, the even bigger gap between reserve level and the first team.

I was sure that Krisztián Németh was the closest thing I'd seen to a Robbie Fowler clone, with the way he finished with such an easy grace, but injuries didn't help him, and he never looked quick enough to get in behind defences. Liverpool sold him, and nothing really happened for a couple of years. However, now, aged 23, he's doing fairly well in the Dutch Eredivisie.

Lauri Dalla Valle was the next highly impressive young striker, but he was sold to Fulham in 2010. Now 20, he's on the fringe of things at the London club, but not pulling up any trees. By contrast, Alex Kačaniklić, who was part of the same deal that saw Paul Konchesky join Liverpool - and who didn't have quite the same stellar youth reputation - has forced his way into the Fulham first XI.

All of this makes me wary of going overboard on any of the current crop of youngsters, although this does appear to be the strongest collection I can recall since the '90s.

(Though neither are guaranteed starters, Martin Kelly and Jay Spearing, aged 22 and 23 respectively, are now part of the first-team squad, and have been for some time. As such, I'd no longer class them as youngsters.)

Jack Robinson, now 18, made his first-team debut at 16, and Jon Flanagan was getting quite a few starts aged 18. The aforementioned Sterling is making waves at just 17, just as Giggs did 21 years ago.

The young Spaniard Suso, 18, has incredible ability, but given that he is more like Scholes and Beckham than Giggs, he may have to wait longer to make his mark; clever players who aren't speedsters often need to build up their strength and stamina first. The same applies to Krisztian Adorjan.

Adam Morgan, 18, had his praises sung by Robbie Fowler after the north American tour. He's quick, tenacious, and can finish, so there's some hope there.

Morgan reminds me a little of David Villa in his physique and playing style, and while that doesn't mean he'll definitely go on to become anywhere near as good - this is not me saying that "Morgan is the new Villa!" - it's worth noting that until the age of 20, Villa was playing for Sporting Gijón B in the third tier of Spanish football, and then spent two seasons in their first team, in the Spanish Segunda División. He was 22 before he made his top division debut, and even that was with newly promoted Zaragoza. The potential of great players is not always picked up on at an early age.

Andre Wisdom, 19, seems to have a bright future, and German Stephen Sama has developed into a tall, powerful centre-back - although it's a position, along with goalkeeper, where youngsters are least likely to be risked in first-team action, due to the costly nature of a mistake. (And of course, defending is an art perfected by experience, which leads to better positional sense. Young youth-team centre-backs tend to get promoted as full-backs to start with.)

There are plenty of other names - too many to mention - with talent at every age group.

The Spanish influence at the Academy has clearly helped reshape the club's fortunes, with two of Barcelona's top coaches instilling a style of play that Brendan Rodgers - an hispanophile - should find helpful.

Even if the Academy only produced a regular succession of very good squad players, that'd help the club in the long-term. One or two world beaters, though, and things could get very interesting.

klose

Suarez and coates are back at melwood today, reina is back too. That only leaves bellers who is heading off anyways by the looks.
So it begins...

Turtyturd

amiable wrote: »

Who the fcuk is Macca?

McManaman....him and Phil Thompson are ITK about everything.

LuckyLloyd

5starpool wrote: »

If in 3 years time we can be doing what Arsenal have been doing for the last 5 I'll be delighted considering how things have been for the last 3 years here.

Arsenal win nothing. Our dreams should be much bigger. Too much talk of emulating Spurs and Arsenal on here - they lose year in, year out - it's just a different form of losing.

spockety

Kirby wrote: »

Nobody can compete with City and 99% of players and agents wouldn't expect them too. What they do expect is for the club to recognise the situation and negotiate.

Player X says, "City are willing to offer me 150k a week and I'm on 50k at the moment.....let's meet in the middle at 100k" Then the club negotiates down from there to a price they can agree on. Thats what happens at most big clubs.

That's not how it works in football, and it's not how it works in almost any other profession.

Whoever pays the most gets the players. Have any players other than any of the 6 or so in the world who can command 200K+ a week at another club turned down a City offer?

Nobody gets offered 150K a week and then signs a contract with another club worth 100K a week.

LuckyLloyd

whatawaster wrote: »

What are we expecting from the owners? Last years accounts showed a structural loss in the club of somewhere above £20 million if I remember correctly. We are hemorrhaging money, even after the reduction in interest payments of £15m p/a and the Standard Chartered deal. Sure, the Warrior deal will improve that position, but it is really only the one-off sales of Torres and Mascherano that stopped the accounts showing a very bleak picture.

With no CL money, our turnover isn't going to radically increase. Sure, it will go up with the new TV money, but relative to the other teams we aren't moving forward much. If revenue won't go up, costs need to come down. The wage-bill is the only game in town.

Werner's talk about increasing the wage bill were, I'm sure, said in the hope of CL qualification allowing us to pay those kinds of wages. That's what last year's spending was supposed to propel us to. Unfortunately, it has at best left us standing still.

Of course we are cost-cutting. Do you want the club making repeated losses and racking up debt? Bellamy will be got rid of imo because the club cannot afford to pay massive wages to someone who cannot be relied upon to be fit for every game.

Cost cutting is exactly what the club needs. We have got rid of Maxi, Aurelio, Kuyt and Aquilani who were all paid far above their performance levels. Cole, Carragher, Doni and Bellamy are the ones left.

The way I see it the wage bill is being pruned down to a level below what our budget allows, and it will be then built up again to a level we can afford with players who hopefully offer more value.

Our fortunes may suffer this season while this transition takes place, but it is a necessary step imo. Few, if any of these metal contracts were handed out under FSG, it's not their mess, but they have to clean it up.

So FSG will deliver a profitably run business, that finishes mid table year in, year out. AWESOME.

Kenny was too ambitious. Bringing in a well spoken, media savvy second car salesman makes a lot of sense in that context.

LuckyLloyd

whatawaster wrote: »

When the bubble bursts, do you want us to be with United, Arsenal and Spurs in the safe pile?

FFP is widely ridiculed, but the way I see it - Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Manchester United - the big revenue clubs of Europe, will want to see it enforced and I think they will hold far more power than the new money at City, Chelsea and PSG.

Maybe success won't come, but I'd rather us break even and come 5th than endanger the future of the club by running up debts and challenging for the league. If we had won the title in 08/09, it wouldn't have justified H&G's destruction of the club.

Barcelona will ensure that FFP is never enacted in full. FFP would break them in to a million little pieces.

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

whatawaster wrote: »

What are we expecting from the owners? Last years accounts showed a structural loss in the club of somewhere above £20 million if I remember correctly. We are hemorrhaging money, even after the reduction in interest payments of £15m p/a and the Standard Chartered deal. Sure, the Warrior deal will improve that position, but it is really only the one-off sales of Torres and Mascherano that stopped the accounts showing a very bleak picture.

With no CL money, our turnover isn't going to radically increase. Sure, it will go up with the new TV money, but relative to the other teams we aren't moving forward much. If revenue won't go up, costs need to come down. The wage-bill is the only game in town.

Werner's talk about increasing the wage bill were, I'm sure, said in the hope of CL qualification allowing us to pay those kinds of wages. That's what last year's spending was supposed to propel us to. Unfortunately, it has at best left us standing still.

Of course we are cost-cutting. Do you want the club making repeated losses and racking up debt? Bellamy will be got rid of imo because the club cannot afford to pay massive wages to someone who cannot be relied upon to be fit for every game.

Cost cutting is exactly what the club needs. We have got rid of Maxi, Aurelio, Kuyt and Aquilani who were all paid far above their performance levels. Cole, Carragher, Doni and Bellamy are the ones left.

The way I see it the wage bill is being pruned down to a level below what our budget allows, and it will be then built up again to a level we can afford with players who hopefully offer more value.

Our fortunes may suffer this season while this transition takes place, but it is a necessary step imo. Few, if any of these metal contracts were handed out under FSG, it's not their mess, but they have to clean it up.

So FSG will deliver a profitably run business, that finishes mid table year in, year out. AWESOME.

Kenny was too ambitious. Bringing in a well spoken, media savvy second car salesman makes a lot of sense in that context.

what do you want us to do? spend money we don't have?
I'm going to ignore your latest pathetic dig at Rodgers and your laughable defense of Dalglish

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

whatawaster wrote: »

When the bubble bursts, do you want us to be with United, Arsenal and Spurs in the safe pile?

FFP is widely ridiculed, but the way I see it - Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Manchester United - the big revenue clubs of Europe, will want to see it enforced and I think they will hold far more power than the new money at City, Chelsea and PSG.

Maybe success won't come, but I'd rather us break even and come 5th than endanger the future of the club by running up debts and challenging for the league. If we had won the title in 08/09, it wouldn't have justified H&G's destruction of the club.

Barcelona will ensure that FFP is never enacted in full. FFP would break them in to a million little pieces.

They have ( I think) the highest revenue in the world and the best youth system. FFP would put them even further ahead of the pack, even if they do need to cut back their wage bill slightly

CL7

opr wrote: »

John Henry taking much the same abuse from Red Sox fans on the other side of pond this week.

Pete Sheppard wants to know where John Henry has been during this Red Sox debacle!

I googled fans forums to see what they were saying about things.



That was the first three lines in the first thread I came across.

Opr

Oh Jesus I just listened to all of that. Very worrying.

NukaCola

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Bringing in a well spoken, media savvy second car salesman makes a lot of sense in that context.

LL, i understand your not a fan of Rodgers but do you have to be so disrespectful? The man hasn't done anything to deserve it.

LuckyLloyd

whatawaster wrote: »

They have ( I think) the highest revenue in the world and the best youth system. FFP would put them even further ahead of the pack, even if they do need to cut back their wage bill slightly

They lose money most years, check it out - their debt levels are truly gigantic. FFP would mean they can't assemble the squad they have assembled the last few years. UEFA are never going to enact something that prevents the supposed jewel of club football doing their thing.

LuckyLloyd

NukaCola wrote: »

LL, i understand your not a fan of Rodgers but do you have to be so disrespectful? The man hasn't done anything to deserve it.

He hasn't done anything to deserve respect.

5live

whatawaster wrote: »

Firstly, I don't believe anything that comes out of a player/agents mouth, and we've heard nothing from the club.

That aside, I've said we should offer him a new deal and I've said I don't want to sell him. I'm only talking about selling him if a) we offer him a deal and b) he turns it down and wants to leave. I'm just trying to assess all the possibilities.

I'm definitely not excusing selling him without trying to keep him here. If that happens the club had better have a **** hot replacement lined up.

+1. Whatawaster has made some excellent points and i cannot fault one if them tbh.

We now have money men owning/running the club. The club will have to finance itself. Last year and now this transfer window shows they are not afraid to discard the highly paid underperforming squad members and they will continue to do that imo.

Agger, too, needs scrutiny. He is an excellent player and in many ways ideal for Rodgers system. His major disadvantage is the amount of time he has spent injured since he joined. Last year was a welcome change on that front and i hope it continues. Give him a new contract, an excellent one, but if he doesnt sign it then move him on. To wait till next year to sell him because of him not signing a new contract will cost, as some have guessed, £10 million plus wages. For £20 million and wages, im sure there are some excellent young centrebacks out there willing to join. Agger would be a loss but not an insurmountable one.

The two most important metrics that the club will be looking at this year will be total points and points gained per £wages spent, imo. As has been said already, cost are easier to reduce than revenue raised. Europa league games will help to bed in more of the squad players and younger prospects will get competeditive game experience and raise revenues for the club by progressing in the competition. A major improvement in league position is also needed to ensure european competition next year for the same reasons as above.

As in moneyball, if the club gets an offer for a player that exceeds the clubs valuation for him and there already is a replacement there to fill his position or can be purchased for value, then byebye. We may have to forego the glory for a year or two and get the ground capacity/revenues up before things will improve. The value for the yanks will come down the line when they sell the club off with improved revenue streams and league position so it is in their interest to ensure both happen as quickly as possible

mayordenis

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He hasn't done anything to deserve respect.

What are you on about? So he's guilty until proven innocent in your eyes?
You have honestly gone off the deep end.

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

NukaCola wrote: »

LL, i understand your not a fan of Rodgers but do you have to be so disrespectful? The man hasn't done anything to deserve it.

He hasn't done anything to deserve respect.

He has done nothing to earn disdain

NukaCola

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He hasn't done anything to deserve respect.

And he did nothing to deserve disrespect either.

Roger Sterling

mayordenis wrote: »

What are you on about? So he's guilty until proven innocent in your eyes?
You have honestly gone off the deep end.

Hes not up in court hes just mowhere near the calibre of manager LFC should aspire to.

LuckyLloyd

mayordenis wrote: »

What are you on about? So he's guilty until proven innocent in your eyes?
You have honestly gone off the deep end.

whatawaster wrote: »

He has done nothing to earn disdain

NukaCola wrote: »

And he did nothing to deserve disrespect either.

Meh, going have to accept my position here or stick me on ignore. Rodgers needs to achieve things (i.e. win football matches) to win me over. He started with a deficit. That's the way it is.

Roger Sterling

NukaCola wrote: »

And he did nothing to deserve disrespect either.

Hes done next to nothing in the game fullstop.

NukaCola

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Hes done next to nothing in the game fullstop.

:pac:

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

whatawaster wrote: »

They have ( I think) the highest revenue in the world and the best youth system. FFP would put them even further ahead of the pack, even if they do need to cut back their wage bill slightly

They lose money most years, check it out - their debt levels are truly gigantic. FFP would mean they can't assemble the squad they have assembled the last few years. UEFA are never going to enact something that prevents the supposed jewel of club football doing their thing.

Dont want to get bogged down on Barca, but ...

Their losses over the last 5 years have totalled £12 million. Their debts are high, but not that high compared to the likes of United and Arsenal, and their revenue is much higher.

Their balance sheet is also misleading, as Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc are valued at NIL. Their net debt position is not a major problem

LuckyLloyd

whatawaster wrote: »

Dont want to get bogged down on Barca, but ...

Their losses over the last 5 years have totalled £12 million. Their debts are high, but not that high compared to the likes of United and Arsenal, and their revenue is much higher.

Their balance sheet is also misleading, as Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc are valued at NIL. Their net debt position is not a major problem

~€600m?

101001

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

~€600m?

Debt doesn't mean anything with regards to FFP. You just cant spend more than what's coming in

machiavellianme

whatawaster wrote: »

Dont want to get bogged down on Barca, but ...

Their losses over the last 5 years have totalled £12 million. Their debts are high, but not that high compared to the likes of United and Arsenal, and their revenue is much higher.

Their balance sheet is also misleading, as Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc are valued at NIL. Their net debt position is not a major problem

Unless they intend to sell them at some point, then that's all their worth to the balance sheet either. Doesnt change their massive debts or make their business anymore viable.

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

whatawaster wrote: »

Dont want to get bogged down on Barca, but ...

Their losses over the last 5 years have totalled £12 million. Their debts are high, but not that high compared to the likes of United and Arsenal, and their revenue is much higher.

Their balance sheet is also misleading, as Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc are valued at NIL. Their net debt position is not a major problem

~€600m?

Yep.

All but 150 million of which are short term liabilities. Cash flow has been their big issue.

redzerdrog

Ryan McLaughlin has been called up to the NI squad for a friendly next week

Kirby

spockety wrote: »

That's not how it works in football, and it's not how it works in almost any other profession.

Whoever pays the most gets the players. Have any players other than any of the 6 or so in the world who can command 200K+ a week at another club turned down a City offer?

Nobody gets offered 150K a week and then signs a contract with another club worth 100K a week.

I respectfully disagree. Do you think that Fabregas would have stayed at Arsenal if offered 200k? Do you think Messi would leave Barca for 500k?

Players accept less money all the time.....aslong as it's not ridiculously less. Things like family play a part. That's why when clubs show a little wiggle room and meet players halfway they sometimes sign new deals.

whatawaster

By the way, if people want the club to run up debts in order to achieve short term success, they should just come out and say so.

Dub13

1st Irish Kop trip of season,Reading.return journey appr 60 euro.A couple of spots left.

For more info see...

http://www.irishkop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21098

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So FSG will deliver a profitably run business, that finishes mid table year in, year out. AWESOME.

Kenny was too ambitious. Bringing in a well spoken, media savvy second car salesman makes a lot of sense in that context.

ambitious = a poor manager now?

LuckyLloyd

whatawaster wrote: »

By the way, if people want the club to run up debts in order to achieve short term success, they should just come out and say so.

No, what I want is the club to come out and be up front and say 'yes, we're disimproving squad and management team because of finances, but we believe it is necessary'. Not endless prattle about tradition and CL when there is no realistic effort being made to restore our on field fortunes towards either.

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

No, ambitious = a poor manager now?

As daithijjj keeps pointing out, you'll beg for what Dalglish provided last year in a few season's time. You just don't know it yet.

NukaCola

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No, what I want is the club to come out and be up front and say 'yes, we're disimproving squad and management team because of finances, but we believe it is necessary'. Not endless prattle about tradition and CL when there is no realistic effort being made to restore our on field fortunes towards either.

Wheres the evidence of this?

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As daithijjj keeps pointing out, you'll beg for what Dalglish provided last year in a few season's time. You just don't know it yet.

I doubt I'll ever be begging for 8th place finishes and one of our worst home records in history.

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

whatawaster wrote: »

By the way, if people want the club to run up debts in order to achieve short term success, they should just come out and say so.

No, what I want is the club to come out and be up front and say 'yes, we're disimproving squad and management team because of finances, but we believe it is necessary'. Not endless prattle about tradition and CL when there is no realistic effort being made to restore our on field fortunes towards either.

Lol, getting rid of underperforming players and manager is all that has happened so far

and for the club to come out and say something like that ... come on! you are smart enough to realise how stupid a move that would be even in the unlikely event that those are the club's intentions.

why do you need the club to spell its intentions out for you, anyway?

NukaCola

whatawaster wrote: »

Lol, getting rid of underperforming players and manager is all that has happened so far

and for the club to come out and say something like that ... come on! you are smart enough to realise how stupid a move that would be even in the unlikely event that those are the club's intentions.

why do you need the club to spell its intentions out for you, anyway?

They have to earn his respect...... :rolleyes:

LuckyLloyd

whatawaster wrote: »

why do you need the club to spell its intentions out for you, anyway?

NukaCola wrote: »

They have to earn his respect...... :rolleyes:

LOL, it isn't me who posts up every cringe worthy set of quotes from John Henry or Brendan Rodgers. I'd be happiest if they said nothing. I just don't like obvious bull****.

klose

Suso has scored for the reserves again

barone

realism.

ok, ive posted on here a few times, been following it like many others for a fair while. im not a kid, nearly 40 so i can just about remember winning the league and how it feels to be champions.

over the last twenty years ive gone from being like most, next year,few slight changes and we could do it. players move on,become worse players,injuries,bad luck,decisions..ive seen it all for lfc, the glory,the champions league,the emergence of fowler,stevie,owen,macca,and the quality players we have signed..h&g disaster...i could go on.

but the emergence of utd 20 years ago,there money,there financial nous ,the oil men taking over clubs,the emergence of spurs this past couple of years..and the backwards step my club have taking,been forced to take, have left me slowly and not without much arguing with myself agreeing with the notion that we are not one of the top 4 clubs in the league anymore..before it was unthinkable,now its a reality...

and its absolutely gut wrenching.

we cannot compete,in fairness no clubs can unless they have oil money,or massive massive debts to try and compete.
do i hate the fact that oil men have brought the likes of chelsea,and city into line and surpassing ourselves,arsenal,spurs,villa etc..where before they were no threat?

no,im jealous of it,i want it for myself,and for lfc. i want to be a champion again,i want lfc to be on top,always.

but its not going to happen unless we get a backer with billions,thats the bottom line, nothing rodgers does will be good enough because he simply wont have the money or players at his disposal to compete.

it will be his fault if we finish outside the top 6 yes. we are a top 6 side. but it dosent matter what manager we have unless we have players to match the ambition,or are poxed enough to unearth 5 ro 6 class youths on our books.

on this thread most have expectations of a top four finish or better,and think we should be signing top players. but as the first word in this post suggests, we need to be realistic.. top players can see what i can see,what others can see, we wont be there or thereabouts at the end of the season, we wont play champions league football this year, next year, so why would the join us?

its the likes of allen, dempsey etc are the types of players who could just help get us there,fighters,hungry.. they may not be good enough once we are embedded again in the top four but they could just be the type of players to help get us back.

not players who will demand a move if it dosent work after one season,we cannot be a stepping stone club for any player,we have to be a dream club again for players to aspire to want to play for and remain at for the best years of there career.

as for the new boss..

its not his fault, he has done nothing wrong,and i think is actually very brave in taking on the challenge. give him 2 or 3 years and see where we are at then.. lets face it,even if mourinho was manager now we couldnt win the league without an awful lot of money spent on the club.. so lets not expect brendan to win it or even come close given our resources.

its a hard pill to swallow,but i believe i speak the truth.

djPSB

What's the expectations for the season?

5th would be a good finish IMO.

I think it is more likely that we will finish 6th or 7th.

I think the most important thing is, that regardless of where we finish, Rodgers is given at least two seasons before he is judged.

P.S I also thought Kenny should have been given another season. Stability is key at this stage.