Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

murpho999

Just been reading about this Standard Chartered affair.

Seems very very serious and could have ramifications.

FSG being an American organisation, could be compelled to drop them if the charges are proven correct.

Seamu$

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think my outlook is realistic, rather than positive. The difference is I think everyone is being unrealistic in their outlook

I'm not sure there are too many people being unrealistic. Common consensus regarding expectations seems to be that we cut the wage bill & trim the squad by letting Kuyt, Maxi, Aqua, Aurelio, Cole & Bellamy go, then replace them almose like-for-like with 5 players - Borini (for Kuyt), Allen (for Aqua), 2 more attacking players (for Maxi & Cole) and a reserve left back (for Aurelio) + bring on a few youngsters a bit more. Net spend of maybe £25m or £30m unless some of the incomings can be done via loan deals, but with >£10m cut in the wage bill annually to compensate. Don't think that's asking too much of FSG or should be considered unrealistic.

Mr Alan

PRAF wrote: »

Who knows, only time will tell if Rodgers can prove himself. I hope he will and I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. All I can judge him on so far is his time at Swansea (very impressive), his references from the likes of Mourinho (very impressive), and how he has been communicating his philosophy and approach in the media to date (again, all very impressive).

I would like to see some positive signs in the transfer market between now and the end of the window. That would be another sign of progress. However, as others have said I think Rodgers is a long term project and we shouldn't necessarily be looking for immediate short term results

Why are you ignoring;

-His time at Reading - very unimpressive
-The fact that the model/style of play etc at Swansea was already in place when he came in there & worked under a strict DOF model, totally different to what he's doing now

His talking to the media has been relatively nice (apart from the Any Carroll cock up & saying Agger was injured), however, niceties in the media are in reality worthless if he doesn't back it up on the field & currently, our team, which is the most important part of the club, is going backwards. Fast.

Leiva

Seamu$ wrote: »

I'm not sure there are too many people being unrealistic. Common consensus regarding expectations seems to be that we cut the wage bill & trim the squad by letting Kuyt, Maxi, Aqua, Aurelio, Cole & Bellamy go, then replace them almose like-for-like with 5 players - Borini (for Kuyt), Allen (for Aqua), 2 more attacking players (for Maxi & Cole) and a reserve left back (for Aurelio) + bring on a few youngsters a bit more. Net spend of maybe £25m or £30m unless some of the incomings can be done via loan deals, but with >£10m cut in the wage bill annually to compensate. Don't think that's asking too much of FSG or should be considered unrealistic.

If we go into the season similar to the position we find ourselves in today with regards to squad quality/numbers then FSG quite frankly are headless-reactive-spoofers, and we will be better off without them.

selling Agger would be FR (fan relations) suicide .

RayCon

murpho999 wrote: »

Just been reading about this Standard Chartered affair.

Seems very very serious and could have ramifications.

FSG being an American organisation, could be compelled to drop them if the charges are proven correct.

Bring back Crown Paints !!!

Seamu$

Leiva wrote: »

Well said . You have addressed two or three crucial points .

It really will be a bizarre transfer and will go against everything that has been said to date from the club .

Exactly, and if the owners start doing things that contradict what they have said I expect a swift deterioration in their relationship with the fans. Not a good path to go down.....again!

Chucky the tree

Seamu$ wrote: »

I'm not sure there are too many people being unrealistic. Common consensus regarding expectations seems to be that we cut the wage bill & trim the squad by letting Kuyt, Maxi, Aqua, Aurelio, Cole & Bellamy go, then replace them almose like-for-like with 5 players - Borini (for Kuyt), Allen (for Aqua), 2 more attacking players (for Maxi & Cole) and a reserve left back (for Aurelio) + bring on a few youngsters a bit more. Net spend of maybe £25m or £30m unless some of the incomings can be done via loan deals, but with >£10m cut in the wage bill annually to compensate. Don't think that's asking too much of FSG or should be considered unrealistic.

Fair point, I edited it to make it more clear, unfair of me to generalise and say everyone. The problem with a £10m cut in the wage bill that still puts us on only £6m below Arsenal, in terms of value for money and even a realistic target of where our wage bill should be that is miles off. It then seems that the lack of transfers in and selling of Agger has most people up in arms. We have 3 weeks to fix the first and tbh I don't see the second as that big of a deal.

PRAF

Mr Alan wrote: »

Why are you ignoring;

-His time at Reading - very unimpressive
-The fact that the model/style of play etc at Swansea was already in place when he came in there & worked under a strict DOF model, totally different to what he's doing now

His talking to the media has been relatively nice (apart from the Any Carroll cock up & saying Agger was injured), however, niceties in the media are in reality worthless if he doesn't back it up on the field & currently, our team, which is the most important part of the club, is going backwards. Fast.

I quite like the fact that Rodgers has failed in the past. Failing is a necessary part of learning. His follow on experience at Swansea seems to indicate that he's learned from his mistakes. What was it Michael Jordan said about failure "I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. But I can't accept not trying"

Some fans will wait for Rodgers to impress them, others will give him the benefit of doubt, either way lets all hope he does the business this year.

missingtime

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9457878/Standard-Chartered-rejects-US-Iran-transaction-claims.html

In October 2006, the head of the bank’s American operations “sent a panicked message to the group executive director in London” saying that the bank’s handling of Iranian clients could cause “catastrophic reputational damage”. The unnamed director allegedly replied: “You f****** Americans. Who are you to tell us, the rest of the world, that we’re not going to deal with Iranians.”

:eek:

qvsr46ofgc792k

PRAF wrote: »

Don't get me wrong here, I'd much prefer to keep Agger (and have him injury free for the whole year). Also, the examples you give about Masch, Alonso, etc are depressing. Not replacing them properly is probably the main reason we're not top-4 anymore.

However.......

I think you need to give the manager a chance first. This might be idle speculation. Or, it might be true but Rodgers is taking a calculated gamble that he can replace Agger and make great use of the funds to reinvest in other areas of the team.

Who'd have though selling Kevin Keegan was good business until King Kenny came along. In more recent years, Fergie has replaced many seemingly irreplaceable stars

Keep the faith!

Keegan for Kenny, what year was this pal?

Keep the faith....bit hard when you consider our recent players leaving and not being replaced.

If the rumours are true, that if Agger goes he will be replaced by Ashley williams, it just shows how backwards we are going.

Dont remember me being this worried about the dirtection of the team ever. Even when we got Hodgson and his diabolical signings.

murpho999

Mr Alan wrote: »

Why are you ignoring;

-His time at Reading - very unimpressive
-The fact that the model/style of play etc at Swansea was already in place when he came in there & worked under a strict DOF model, totally different to what he's doing now

His talking to the media has been relatively nice (apart from the Any Carroll cock up & saying Agger was injured), however, niceties in the media are in reality worthless if he doesn't back it up on the field & currently, our team, which is the most important part of the club, is going backwards. Fast.

Why do people think this when the departures have been fringe players and the big names are still there despite all the rumours? Please don't say that Maxi and Kuyt leaving has seriously damaged squad!

Really think we should wait and see how squad is on transfer deadline day before judging.

Francie Barrett

Agreed, it's funny seeing supposedly knowledgable people getting their knickers in a twist over idle speculation. So far, I think Rodgers has taken all the right steps in rebuilding this team.

Looking at the players that have left us, none of them were good enough to get us into the top 4. Aquilani joined a Serie A team that struggled last year. Kuyt joined a Turkish team that would struggle to even stay in the Premier League. Maxi went to a mid-table Argentinian team. Bellamy looks set to drop down to the Championship. None of these guys were anywhere near the level of challenging for the Champions League with the only question mark hovering over whether Bellamy still had it in him to play a rotation part.

On the otherhand, we have so much to be excited about. The last time I checked, Agger is still a Liverpool player and hasn't once said he wants a move. Lucas is back! Suso has just won the European Championships and looks like he could be one of our best prospects since Stevie G. Sterling is already on the fringes of the senior team and looks like a real attacking threat. Flanagan, Coates, Kelly, etc. all look to be excellent prospects with the likelihood that at least one will become an important player for us. Rodgers himself has stated publicly that he is on the hunt and that he expects activity before the end of the transfer window.

Turtyturd

RayCon wrote: »

Bring back Crown Paints !!!

Our Year.

Kimbot

Didn't john Henry make some comments at the start of the summer saying that there was money available in terms of wages already. I know we haven't signed anyone really bar borini but I will keep the faith that we will sign a few players. It's not as easy to get rid of players like aqua etc unless it's a loan deal where we get shafted so selling them first before buying is the most sensible approach

Mr Alan

murpho999 wrote: »

Why do people think this when the departures have been fringe players and the big names are still there despite all the rumours? Please don't say that Maxi and Kuyt leaving has seriously damaged squad!

Really think we should wait and see how squad is on transfer deadline day before judging.

Kuyt has been a huge player for us over the last few years. Replacing him is going to be difficult. Numerous occassions when the chips were down, he was always there for us. Going to be very difficult to replace a player like that.

Maxi has also been a good player for us over the last couple of years & has continuously been one of our most creative players & best goal threats.

They're not impossible to replace. Particularly Maxi. But we have to do that & do it well.

On the last unerlined point, that really annoys me.

Am I allowed comment on the 01st September, but not on 29th August?

Bit stupid, no? Unless there is a pretty radical shift, we pretty much know the direction our window is headed.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

Kuyt has been a huge player for us over the last few years. Replacing him is going to be difficult. Numerous occassions when the chips were down, he was always there for us. Going to be very difficult to replace a player like that.

Maxi has also been a good player for us over the last couple of years & has continuously been one of our most creative players & best goal threats.

They're not impossible to replace. Particularly Maxi. But we have to do that & do it well.

On the last unerlined point, that really annoys me.

Am I allowed comment on the 01st September, but not on 29th August?

Bit stupid, no? Unless there is a pretty radical shift, we pretty much know the direction our window is headed.

We have been getting hugely diminishing returns from Kuyt. He scored 2 league goals last season but commands the wages of a top-class player. Selling him was absolutely the correct decision.

Bellamy, Maxi and Kuyt got 12 league goals between them last season. If we spend well, one player could match that return.

Those three were also paid a combined €250K per week, or €12.5 million a year. Were we getting value there?

Mr Alan

whatawaster wrote: »

We have been getting hugely diminishing returns from Kuyt. He scored 2 league goals last season but commands the wages of a top-class player. Selling him was absolutely the correct decision.

Bellamy, Maxi and Kuyt got 12 league goals between them last season. If we spend well, one player could match that return.

Those three were also paid a combined €250K per week, or €12.5 million a year. Were we getting value there?

Did you miss the point where I said that they could be replaced, but that they had to be replaced well?

What about this window should lead me to believe we're capable of spending well? By most accounts, we're about to get bent over for Joe Allen (who I like, but we are being raped).

What about this window should lead me to believe that we're on the verge of signing the 4 odd attacking players we require to replace Carroll, Bellamy, Kuyt & Maxi in our squad? We've been linked with Dempsey, but it looks like Fulham have told us to go **** ourselves.

What about the players, we've even been linked with this summer (by reputable, decent sources) should have me impressed?

We're likely gonna sell Danny Agger for a similar fee to what we're about to pay to land Joe Allen ffs. Why aren't people angry about this?

This is shaping up to be an absolute car crash of a season.

opr

skywalker wrote: »

This is the way you shift a player & get maximum value in the process. We should be taking notes.

Playing a blinder isn't he, exactly the same sort of noises we should have been making about Agger to get the wheelbarrow filled up.

Opr

NukaCola

Mr Alan wrote: »

Did you miss the point where I said that they could be replaced, but that they had to be replaced well?

What about this window should lead me to believe we're capable of spending well? By most accounts, we're about to get bent over for Joe Allen (who I like, but we are being raped).

What about this window should lead me to believe that we're on the verge of signing the 4 odd attacking players we require to replace Carroll, Bellamy, Kuyt & Maxi in our squad? We've been linked with Dempsey, but it looks like Fulham have told us to go **** ourselves.

What about the players, we've even been linked with this summer (by reputable, decent sources) should have me impressed?

We're likely gonna sell Danny Agger for a similar fee to what we're about to pay to land Joe Allen ffs. Why aren't people angry about this?

This is shaping up to be an absolute car crash of a season.

Why will we need to replace Carroll?

ThunbergsAreGo

I am surprised the owners seem willing to fund the Allen move,

buying from English clubs has not served us well in the last while at all.

I cant understand why we seem to neglect the international market (Uruguay aside)

Milkers

Mr Alan wrote: »

We're likely gonna sell Danny Agger for a similar fee to what we're about to pay to land Joe Allen ffs. Why aren't people angry about this?

Because getting angry about things that haven't even happened means you probably need a good therapist.

Mr Alan

NukaCola wrote: »

Why will we need to replace Carroll?

Because he'll most likely be gone by the end of the transfer window, probably on loan?

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

Did you miss the point where I said that they could be replaced, but that they had to be replaced well?

What about this window should lead me to believe we're capable of spending well? By most accounts, we're about to get bent over for Joe Allen (who I like, but we are being raped).

What about this window should lead me to believe that we're on the verge of signing the 4 odd attacking players we require to replace Carroll, Bellamy, Kuyt & Maxi in our squad? We've been linked with Dempsey, but it looks like Fulham have told us to go **** ourselves.

What about the players, we've even been linked with this summer (by reputable, decent sources) should have me impressed?

We're likely gonna sell Danny Agger for a similar fee to what we're about to pay to land Joe Allen ffs. Why aren't people angry about this?

This is shaping up to be an absolute car crash of a season.

Probably because it is hard for most people to get worked up over something that has not happened and that is, at this point in time at least, largely made up of rumour and speculation.

If Agger was actually sold, and a vastly inferior replacement (or none at all) came in, then I am quite sure there would be a backlash. Selling Agger would be a stupid move imho unless there was serious quality coming in, and even then I would prefer to keep Agger and let the serious quality replace one of the other CBs.

RayCon

Can't say Im bursting with confidence for this season based on the transfers to date and the rumours of other players departing. Add to that an unproven manager with a new "system" and it really will be a season of massive patience required. I think we will struggle to acheive a top six place and can only hope that Newcastles excellent form last year was a blip and Spurs will have their own teething problems under AVB.

Top 4 prediction.
Man Utd
Chelsea
Man City
Arsenal

Milkers

Just to indulge in the madness of this thread during offseason for a moment, how would people feel if we sold Agger and on the same day signed a genuine big name like a Cavani or David Villa?

NukaCola

Mr Alan wrote: »

Because he'll most likely be gone by the end of the transfer window, probably on loan?

Borini is his replacement if he does leave.....at least i would have thought so?

Francie Barrett

Mr Alan wrote: »

Maxi has also been a good player for us over the last couple of years & has continuously been one of our most creative players & best goal threats.

2 assists in two seasons is a pretty poor return.

Kess73

Milkers wrote: »

Just to indulge in the madness of this thread during offseason for a moment, how would people feel if we sold Agger and on the same day signed a genuine big name like a Cavani or David Villa?

Would feel a little let down to be honest if such a scenario happened as I would feel that the massive gain at one end of the pitch was being offset by the massive loss at the other end.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

Did you miss the point where I said that they could be replaced, but that they had to be replaced well?

What about this window should lead me to believe we're capable of spending well? By most accounts, we're about to get bent over for Joe Allen (who I like, but we are being raped).

What about this window should lead me to believe that we're on the verge of signing the 4 odd attacking players we require to replace Carroll, Bellamy, Kuyt & Maxi in our squad? We've been linked with Dempsey, but it looks like Fulham have told us to go **** ourselves.

What about the players, we've even been linked with this summer (by reputable, decent sources) should have me impressed?

We're likely gonna sell Danny Agger for a similar fee to what we're about to pay to land Joe Allen ffs. Why aren't people angry about this?

This is shaping up to be an absolute car crash of a season.

You are completely over-reacting imo.

Firstly, Carroll will only be replaced if he is to be sold.
Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy will probably only be replaced by 2 players.
That will leave us with options for the front 3 of: Suarez, Borini, Carroll (or replacement), New Signing 1, New Signing 2, Downing, Cole, Sterling, Gerrard, Suso, Pacheco etc. Lots of bodies, lots of versatile players who can play different positions.

Secondly, it doesn't matter if new signings don't impress you. What does that matter? It matters that they perform once the season kicks off.

IMO we have not yet weakened our starting XI. (Agger leaving would change this). We have reduced the size of our squad significantly, and that needs to be redressed over the next few weeks, I agree.

Let's assume the worst, and Agger leaves. Let's also assume that one of Adam/Cole go as well and that Carroll is sold.

---

Reina/Jones

---

Johnson/Kelly

---

Enrique/Robbo

---

Skrtel/Carra---NEW/Coates

---

---

Lucas/Spearing

---

---

NEW/Henderson----Gerrard/Shelvey

---

----Suarez/NEW

---

NEW/Downing/Cole/Sterling

---

Borini/NEW

---

IMO, even given those additional departures, we will only need:

NEW CB
NEW CM - Allen (who will also cover DM in preference to Spearing)
NEW AM - Dempsey?
NEW WINGER -
NEW CF -

If we assume Allen is as good as done, we need 4 more signings in 3 weeks.
Not easy, but not impossible.
The CB will be the crucial one.
We could probably live with just 2 out of the other 3 coming in as we have a lot of players (Gerrard, Shelvey, Suarez etc) who are very versatile and can cover multiple attacking positions)

So Allen plus 3 or 4 more, one or two of whom could well be on loan. This is very achievable imo.

We could make an absolute ****** of things from here on in, and we could do without this Agger business, but it's not time to panic yet.

The important thing is that we bring in first XI quality players. Borini looks that. Allen looks that.

Kimbot

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Mr Alan wrote: »

Maxi has also been a good player for us over the last couple of years & has continuously been one of our most creative players & best goal threats.

2 assists in two seasons is a pretty poor return.

That's hardly the last two seasons, didn't he score a good few goals when kenny took over?

NukaCola

Milkers wrote: »

Just to indulge in the madness of this thread during offseason for a moment, how would people feel if we sold Agger and on the same day signed a genuine big name like a Cavani or David Villa?

I dont want to belittle the team or the manager, but what "genuine big name" would want to join a mid table team with an inexperienced manager....

meriwether

Kess73 wrote: »

Would feel a little let down to be honest if such a scenario happened as I would feel that the massive gain at one end of the pitch was being offset by the massive loss at the other end.

These are two fantastic quotes.

One fella hypotheising Liverpool could sign a Cavani/Villa (he did say it was madness) and someone else being let down by it because Agger was leaving at the same time.

Top exchange there.

mayordenis

Francie Barrett wrote: »

2 assists in two seasons is a pretty poor return.

Don't think that really tells the story, everytime Maxi played for Liverpool he was one of the best players on the pitch, obviously his goal return was also excellent for us.

Unfortunately I'd lay the blame on him leaving not just with the current manager but with all those who were in before him as he was just unbelievably underused in his 2 and half seasons with us.

NukaCola

meriwether wrote: »

These are two fantastic quotes.

One fella hypotheising Liverpool could sign a Cavani/Villa (he did say it was madness) and someone else being let down by it because Agger was leaving at the same time.

Top exchange there.

Jamie Redknapp?....is that you?

meriwether

NukaCola wrote: »

Jamie Redknapp?....is that you?

No, 'Arry.

Can I interest you in a Wii?

meriwether

NukaCola wrote: »

Jamie Redknapp?....is that you?

No, 'Arry.

Can I interest you in a Wii?

whatawaster

mayordenis wrote: »

everytime Maxi played for Liverpool he was one of the best players on the pitch

This is not true at all, he drifted in and out of games like no man's business. I'd say he offered little in the majority of games he played for us.

opr

Barcelona's interest in Daniel Agger, for whom Liverpool ask 27.7M, has faded away. Marc Bartra will get more chances. [sport guardian]

Opr

super_furry

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/08/07/3291988/dempsey-ordered-to-train-on-his-own-as-liverpool-move-stalls?source=breakingnews

Clint Dempsey been told to train on his own at Fulham. Would usually discount goal.com, but Dempsey's brother writes for them so they may well have the inside track.

amiable

super_furry wrote: »

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/08/07/3291988/dempsey-ordered-to-train-on-his-own-as-liverpool-move-stalls?source=breakingnews

Clint Dempsey been told to train on his own at Fulham. Would usually discount goal.com, but Dempsey's brother writes for them so they may well have the inside track.

Is he a journo or does he not just write the occasional blog?

murpho999

Mr Alan wrote: »

Kuyt has been a huge player for us over the last few years. Replacing him is going to be difficult. Numerous occassions when the chips were down, he was always there for us. Going to be very difficult to replace a player like that.

Maxi has also been a good player for us over the last couple of years & has continuously been one of our most creative players & best goal threats.

They're not impossible to replace. Particularly Maxi. But we have to do that & do it well.

On the last unerlined point, that really annoys me.

Am I allowed comment on the 01st September, but not on 29th August?

Bit stupid, no? Unless there is a pretty radical shift, we pretty much know the direction our window is headed.

Kuyt: As you say yourself, "has been." He was not first choice last season and is on the downward spiral. Not a major loss to squad.

Maxi: You're over-rating him.....had his two hat-tricks in two 2 seasons ago and then a goal against Chelsea last season but his overall contribution has been poor. You seem to be forgetting games where he was very poor.

As for your last point of course you can comment but to say that the squad is going backwards before signings have been completed is premature in my opinion.

Also, if we agree that the last 3 seasons have not been good enough then we should also agree that players like Maxi & Kuyt are also not good enough and we need to improve and that will involve getting rid of players.

Bray Header

missingtime wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9457878/Standard-Chartered-rejects-US-Iran-transaction-claims.html



:eek:

Did anybody read that last part in a south park "****ty Mongolians" accent?

Leiva

opr wrote: »

Barcelona's interest in Daniel Agger, for whom Liverpool ask 27.7M, has faded away. Marc Bartra will get more chances. [sport guardian]

Opr

Yep ..Im guessing thats 27.7m euro which tallies with the £22mil in last nights reports .

Seems the club are looking to off load Agger

Mr Alan

Kess73 wrote: »

Probably because it is hard for most people to get worked up over something that has not happened and that is, at this point in time at least, largely made up of rumour and speculation.

If Agger was actually sold, and a vastly inferior replacement (or none at all) came in, then I am quite sure there would be a backlash. Selling Agger would be a stupid move imho unless there was serious quality coming in, and even then I would prefer to keep Agger and let the serious quality replace one of the other CBs.

This appears to be the approach you're going with this transfer window.



Just to reiterate, we're not talking about some tit bit in a tabloid rag, every credible football journalist, local & national, has said that we're willing to sell Agger for £22m.

whatawaster wrote: »

The important thing is that we bring in first XI quality players. Borini looks that. Allen looks that.

Allen looks decent. Grand.

Borini I've not seen a lot of, but his best ever season saw him score 9 goals.

These are not the signings to catapult us up the table. In fact, we'll be doing incredibly well to stand still.

opr

Rumours Suarez has signed a new long-term deal.

Opr

Melion

Mr Alan wrote: »

This appears to be the approach you're going with this transfer window.



Just to reiterate, we're not talking about some tit bit in a tabloid rag, every credible football journalist, local & national, has said that we're willing to sell Agger for £22m.



Allen looks decent. Grand.

Borini I've not seen a lot of, but his best ever season saw him score 9 goals.

These are not the signings to catapult us up the table. In fact, we'll be doing incredibly well to stand still.

Just out of interest. If we sign 3/4 players and keep Agger, what stick will you use to beat BR with?

missingtime

opr wrote: »

Rumours Suarez has signed a new long-term deal.

Opr

I'm sorry good news is not allowed in this thread.

Francie Barrett

Mr Alan wrote: »

Just to reiterate, we're not talking about some tit bit in a tabloid rag, every credible football journalist, local & national, has said that we're willing to sell Agger for £22m.

Everybody is reporting the same rumour. We haven't gotten a single credible source on the issue so far.

opr

missingtime wrote: »

I'm sorry good news is not allowed in this thread.

It's only so we can get the maximum price when selling him next summer

Opr

donfers

remember evra tried to wind up Suarez at the end of the old trafford game in an attempt to get him in trouble again, inciting the crowd and generally acting the little bollox that he is, well who jumped in there and told evra to get stuffed, it was skrtel and agger, who was fighting for us in every game last year, contesting every decision, yelling, shouting, cajoling, challenging - that was bellamy

if bellamy and agger go we'll have very few what might be described as "hardline" players, lads who'll put their body on the line and fight in every possible way to win - maybe Suarez and Lucas to an extent but we will lack that nasty edge that is essential to compete


we need to sign more bastards, too many neat and tidy players - any suggestions?

amorebieta is meant to be a headcase but you want controlled intimidating aggression and a competitive never say die spirit and a refusal to be mistreated by officials or opposition

maybe leadership is the word

gerrard and carra have been wonderful servants for the club but i'm not sure if they are ruthless enough, they have been criticised for not speaking out about h&g at the time (they were on nice cosy contracts) and not standing up for the foreign players and rafa at times - so as I said a hard bastard with great leadership skills who can unify us and be a pain in the hole to referees and the opposition would be a good catch