2013 NFL DRAFT

davyjose

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No available QB is worth an overall no.1 pick this year.

Take a Franchise Left Tackle and whoever ends up playing QB there will benefit for it.

That didnt work too well for Miami in '08

JaMarcus Hustle

davyjose wrote: »

That didnt work too well for Miami in '08

They went from 1st overall pick in the draft to an 11-5 season and the playoffs. Worked pretty well short-term, and would have worked long term had Chad Pennington not re-injured his shoulder. Picking Jake Long was the right thing to do.

Syferus

Kansas need to get an Alex Smith or even a Matt Flynn or Michael Vick for next season, someone that has some modicum of upside. Ironically Tebow's option offense would be good fit for them and a fantastic boon for Charles, perhaps the most talented back in football. The offense that can't pass to save its life anyways so even those jeers don't carry much weight. It's doubtful they would be that brave, though.

If they can't get someone in free agency they may end up being pushed into a QB pick.

JaMarcus Hustle

That's a great way for a new GM and head coach to endear themselves to fans who are sick of terrible Quarterbacks. Sign Tebow.

Syferus

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

That's a great way for a new GM and head coach to endear themselves to fans who are sick of terrible Quarterbacks. Sign Tebow.

Probably a better approach than Paranoid Pioli took, anyways.

TO.

Syferus wrote: »

Kansas need to get an Alex Smith or even a Matt Flynn or Michael Vick for next season, someone that has some modicum of upside. Ironically Tebow's option offense would be good fit for them and a fantastic boon for Charles, perhaps the most talented back in football. The offense that can't pass to save its life anyways so even those jeers don't carry much weight. It's doubtful they would be that brave, though.

Brave? How about stupid. Charles needs a competent QB to balance out their offense and take the pressure off him. He doesn't need more running. Also tell me how an option offense would be a good fit for them.

Syferus

TO. wrote: »

Brave? How about stupid. Charles needs a competent QB to balance out their offense and take the pressure off him. He doesn't need more running. Also tell me how an option offense would be a good fit for them.

Option offense has been proven to super-charge the RB on the teams that have utilised it. The last two #1 rushing teams in the NFL? Tebow and the Broncos, RG3 and the Redskins. Both division winners. The option made a post-30 Willis McGhee a serious threat and turned Alfred Morris into a star. I can only imagine what it'd do for a back whose talent isn't in question to begin with, indeed what Wilson and Lynch did in Seattle in the second half of the season was a good preview of what option/qb rushing threat offense is capable of. For a team that's seriously thinking about drafting Geno Smith #1 overall trying something different and building other areas of the team makes a lot of sense.

You do realise Bowe is going to walk this off-season unless he's given a massive contract, right? I doubt the Chiefs want to double down on franchise tagging him as second time either. They have one of the poorest passing attacks in the league and it's likely to get worse before it gets better. Trying to focus on that when you have an elite running back is madness.

TO.

Syferus wrote: »

Option offense has been proven to super-charge the RB on the teams that have utilised it. The last two #1 rushing teams in the NFL? Tebow and the Broncos, RG3 and the Redskins. Both division winners. The option made a post-30 Willis McGhee a serious threat and turned Alfred Morris into a star. I can only imagine what it'd do for a back whose talent isn't in question to begin with, indeed what Wilson and Lynch did in Seattle in the second half of the season was a good preview of what option/qb rushing threat offense is capable of. For a team that's seriously thinking about drafting Geno Smith #1 overall trying something different and building other areas of the team makes a lot of sense.

Firstly Seattle didn't use an Option playbook. Do you know what an Option offense is? Denver used the Zone Read Option last year and the Redskins used a hybrid Pistol Spread Option this year.

Zone Read Option - Generally uses Zone blocking on the line of scrimmage and the QB reads off a certain defensive player to decide who keeps the ball. You do it right and have a back like McGahee of course he will get yards as it is designed as a run heavy offense. Only drawback if you can't find a good passer of the football it will blow up in your face i.e Broncos Pats in the playoffs last year when the Pats shut down the option.

Pistol Spread Option - This is actually the QB in a half under centre and shotgun formation. By that I mean look at the distance RGIII is from the centre. Instead of being 7 yards back in shotgun he is between 3and 5 yards. The reason for this it helps the down hill running game while giving you options in the air also. Skins used both zone blocking and Big on big blocking. Using designed QB runs/rollouts and Play actions RG III had room to run. The key to this system was having a strong runner in the backfield and a QB that can actually throw a football which RGIII showed he can.

As for Seattle they didn't use an Option playbook at all. They used the Zone read system but didn't use it to option anyone for the most part. There was designed option plays in their playbook but not many. A fair few QB keepers and draws and play actions that gave Wilson options to move if needs be. Add to the fact with the Zone block and Lynch it was an ideal system for Seattle. Oh and Wilson has a good pass.

So if Kansas are to use any of the above the only one that would suit them would be the Denver one right now but they would fall down to the lack of a passing game. Right now their offensive line is not good enough to run the Pistol Spread Option or protect their QB and open holes like Seattles can.

You do realise Bowe is going to walk this off-season unless he's given a massive contract, right? I doubt the Chiefs want to double down on franchise tagging him as second time either. They have one of the poorest passing attacks in the league and it's likely to get worse before it gets better. Trying to focus on that when you have an elite running back is madness.

So you are saying just go 100% run and forget about passing the football. So what if Bowe leaves. Running the ball that much will ware down your runningback and when you have no passing game it will be awful football to watch and they will lose a lot. Also what happens if Tebow tries to pass the football if Kansas forget about trying to fix their WR issue if Bowe leaves?

Ronaldinho

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No, their O Line was an absolute disaster this year.

No argument, their OL is poor, but I'd have thought Albert is the best of the bunch. I'd say they'll need to keep him around and look to address the rest of the line later in the draft and through free agency.

As has been said, none of the QBs are worth of the top overall pick. My gut feeling is that there'll be no QBs taken until the second half of the 1st round, when some teams will pull the trigger on moving up from the second.

I have Kansas taking Lotulelei if they stay where they are. Tyson Jackson is slated to earn 14.7mio the season after next. Can't see them keeping him around even on a restructured contract. I'm sure they'd love to move down though. The likes of Warmack or Milliner would be nice pickups inside the top 10, or if they went back even further they could still get themselves one of the top receivers or ILBs.

HigginsJ

Ronaldinho wrote: »

As has been said, none of the QBs are worth of the top overall pick. My gut feeling is that there'll be no QBs taken until the second half of the 1st round, when some teams will pull the trigger on moving up from the 2nd.

While you are probably correct on paper there is no way no QB's taken in the top half of the 1st. Geno Smith n Tyler Wilson will def go that high. If the Chiefs elect not to take a QB you still have Jets, Bills and Cards would def snap up either of those guys if they fell to them. (Possibly Jags n Raiders could be interested too)

Joeckel is probably the most valuable player in the draft with Matthews n Lewan going back to school. Fisher n DJ Fluker would appear to be a big drop off from Joeckel.

HigginsJ

Mel Kiper has realeased his 1st mock draft. He has Luke Joeckel going 1st overall to chiefs.

He also has no QB's going in the 1st (but reckons at least one will make their way up)

Justin10

HigginsJ wrote: »

Mel Kiper has realeased his 1st mock draft. He has Luke Joeckel going 1st overall to chiefs.

He also has no QB's going in the 1st (but reckons at least one will make their way up)

I don't pay any attention to him, if your talking QBs listen to Gruden.

Evaluation of plats then Mike Mayock is your guy.
I find Kiper has got a lot wrong last couple of years. He gave Seahawks a D for their last draft. Gruden though was spot on with Wilson and if I remember correctly like Irvan and wagner too.

matthew8

Gruden likes everyone.

HigginsJ

Rochey18 wrote: »

Evaluation of plats then Mike Mayock is your guy.
.

Love Mayock.

Rochey18

Rochey18 wrote: »

I don't pay any attention to him, if your talking QBs listen to Gruden.

Evaluation of plats then Mike Mayock is your guy.
I find Kiper has got a lot wrong last couple of years. He gave Seahawks a D for their last draft. Gruden though was spot on with Wilson and if I remember correctly like Irvan and wagner too.

dude gruden says he likes everyone so to pick out players like that is silly. on top of that look at his qb draft history as a coach he won a sb with tony dungys team and they went to the dogs after a few of his drafts hes a great coach and seems like a genuinley good guy but not a great talent evaluater

Justin10

Everyone likes every pick. Not going say on national tv that a player is awful but Gruden I find can point out weaknesses and strengths of a QB.

HigginsJ

Rochey18 wrote: »

Everyone likes every pick. Not going say on national tv that a player is awful but Gruden I find can point out weaknesses and strengths of a QB.

His QB camps are a good watch.

Chucky the tree

Wow. What a strange story. His BCS game was bad enough for his stock. Turns out Manti Teo girlfriend who died of leukaemia didn't actually exist.

http://deadspin.com/5976517/manti-teos-dead-girlfriend-the-most-heartbreaking-and-inspirational-story-of-the-college-football-season-is-a-hoax?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow


I see you guys have it in the college thread. So how far does he now drop?

davyjose

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Wow. What a strange story. His BCS game was bad enough for his stock. Turns out Manti Teo girlfriend who died of leukaemia didn't actually exist.

http://deadspin.com/5976517/manti-teos-dead-girlfriend-the-most-heartbreaking-and-inspirational-story-of-the-college-football-season-is-a-hoax?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow


I see you guys have it in the college thread. So how far does he now drop?

He plummets. 2nd or 3rd rounder now IMO.

Syferus

davyjose wrote: »

He plummets. 2nd or 3rd rounder now IMO.

If he does some team is still going to get serious value and a player that's able to energise defense. I can see a lot of the teams in the lower reaches of the first round being tempted depending on what comes out tomorrow or someone throwing down a late round pick to move up and grab him in round 2 or 3. I'd bet teams like the 49ers, Steelers, Packers or Patriots would love to pick him up cheap and work him into their systems, teams that feel their culture is robust enough to take on any risk attached to Manti. The Eagles would probably be in dreamland if he fell to them with their second pick.

It's not like killing a fake girlfriend is an offense likely to lead to recidivism :pac:

Mikeyt086

Wow.

So many inconsistencies around the Te'o story. I reckon it has to be a gay cover-up gone totally out of control, or he was embarrassed about the relationship when he hadn't met her in person, so he just lied and said he had (think this is what ND and Te'o are saying).

Having said that, some team that thought they didn't have a chance at the Heisman runner up is now likely thinking "So he's a bit crazy, we can fix that." He will fall, but not that much. Unless something else comes to light about this story.

GoldFour4

Saw a tweet from an ESPN guy saying that a gm was quoted saying, "it won't affect his draft stock, we draft guys that rob banks" or something along those lines.

Syferus

I didn't know the Jets had hired a new GM :pac:

davyjose

Syferus wrote: »

It's not like killing a fake girlfriend is an offense likely to lead to recidivism :pac:

True. And aside from this he seems like a good guy on and off the field. In fact if he falls to 24, I'd be more than happy for Indy to take him. As it starts to simmer a bit, maybe he won't fall so far. Better it happen now than in march.

TO.

Not that I take a lot of stock in what Jerry Jones says but he came out and said he and the Cowboys had Te'o around 19 on their board and he reckons many teams are the same and he said that was right after the BCS Champ. He reckons Te'o will fall even more now. Again though it is Jerry Jones.

Chucky the tree

TO. wrote: »

Not that I take a lot of stock in what Jerry Jones says but he came out and said he and the Cowboys had Te'o around 19 on their board and he reckons many teams are the same and he said that was right after the BCS Champ. He reckons Te'o will fall even more now. Again though it is Jerry Jones.

If Jerry Jones thinks this hurts his draft stock then it's pretty huge. He's normally not very shy about drafting guys with questionable character.

Syferus

Even now I'd take Manti's character in a heartbeat over Dez Byrant's, let's not put much faith in Cowboy Jerry's analysis of players' character or intangibles.

This is not an offence (if it proves to be Heisman vote-gathering) that is likely to repeat itself in the way other player's issues dog their careers. Over-reaction theatre is at full gear on Manti's draft stock right now.

Chucky the tree

Syferus wrote: »

Even now I'd take Manti's character in a heartbeat over Dez Byrant's, let's not put much faith in Cowboy Jerry's analysis of players' character or intangibles.

This is not an offence (if it proves to be Heisman vote-gathering) that is likely to repeat itself in the way other player's issues dog their careers. Over-reaction theatre is at full gear on Manti's draft stock right now.

I'd take Byrants ability and skill over Manti's every time though. That's the problem with Manti, he doesn't have amazing athletic ability to make teams ignore his very dubious character.

TO.

Syferus wrote: »

Even now I'd take Manti's character in a heartbeat over Dez Byrant's, let's not put much faith in Cowboy Jerry's analysis of players' character or intangibles.

This is not an offence (if it proves to be Heisman vote-gathering) that is likely to repeat itself in the way other player's issues dog their careers. Over-reaction theatre is at full gear on Manti's draft stock right now.

What are you talking about. Jones said Te'o stock dropped after the Championship game and that was before this whole mess. He also said there are a lot of scouts and teams feeling the same way. So right now Te'o is at min touted to drop. Add the questionable character with regards the current mess and you will find many teams who have better reps than Jones feel the same way. But if Jones takes in clowns at the cowboys already surely he is the right person to pass judgement as he is an expert on how to bring in clowns.

Also on Te'o character. Do you have a hard on for people's character? Same thing banging on about Tebow also last time round. At least Tebow's character was never in doubt. Te'o character is going to be in doubt 100% now many will find it hard to put faith in a guy like Te'o especially when he has so much work to do to be a pro linebacker. Besides character as a Linebacker will only take you so far. This intangible talk after a while gets very tedious and has become an excuse for many who try disguise the lack of actual talent when a player hits the pros. The good old line of "Oh but he has all the other intangibles yadda yadda" comes up all too often now.

All of that a side though has anyone actually given a thought as to how Te'o himself will deal with all of this? Will he now enter the draft get picked and maintain his so called strong character? Will he be able to live the mockery that will be brought on him? Fans will mock him as will other players. Locker room jokes will be rampant. The question will be how will Te'o deal with it. And teams will think of this also. Do they want that sh1te in their locker rooms.

Hazys

His draft stock maybe plummeting but his fantasy draft value is skyrocketing!

davyjose

TO. wrote: »

What are you talking about. Jones said Te'o stock dropped after the Championship game and that was before this whole mess. He also said there are a lot of scouts and teams feeling the same way. So right now Te'o is at min touted to drop. Add the questionable character with regards the current mess and you will find many teams who have better reps than Jones feel the same way. But if Jones takes in clowns at the cowboys already surely he is the right person to pass judgement as he is an expert on how to bring in clowns.

Also on Te'o character. Do you have a hard on for people's character? Same thing banging on about Tebow also last time round. At least Tebow's character was never in doubt. Te'o character is going to be in doubt 100% now many will find it hard to put faith in a guy like Te'o especially when he has so much work to do to be a pro linebacker. Besides character as a Linebacker will only take you so far. This intangible talk after a while gets very tedious and has become an excuse for many who try disguise the lack of actual talent when a player hits the pros. The good old line of "Oh but he has all the other intangibles yadda yadda" comes up all too often now.

All of that a side though has anyone actually given a thought as to how Te'o himself will deal with all of this? Will he now enter the draft get picked and maintain his so called strong character? Will he be able to live the mockery that will be brought on him? Fans will mock him as will other players. Locker room jokes will be rampant. The question will be how will Te'o deal with it. And teams will think of this also. Do they want that sh1te in their locker rooms.

If he's genuinely of strong character then yeah. I'm sure Ray Lewis and James Harrison took their share of hazing in their day. You think anyone's calling them out now. My point is: this could make or break the guy. It could hurt him, but it could forge him mentally into a beast.

I definitely think his poor performance against Alabama was affected by all this TBH. And before you call his character into question over that, there aren't many people who wouldn't find a situation such as this distracting.

Also being probably the worst "GM" in the league, I'm pretty certain Jerry Jones opinion isn't reflected in the rest of the league.

TO.

davyjose wrote: »

If he's genuinely of strong character then yeah. I'm sure Ray Lewis and James Harrison took their share of hazing in their day. You think anyone's calling them out now. My point is: this could make or break the guy. It could hurt him, but it could forge him mentally into a beast.

I definitely think his poor performance against Alabama was affected by all this TBH. And before you call his character into question over that, there aren't many people who wouldn't find a situation such as this distracting.

If his poor performance is down to all this drama and not him just playing then it would suggest that he wont get past it and it could be his downfall and shred the any of the character he is known for. Who knows at this point.

Also being probably the worst "GM" in the league, I'm pretty certain Jerry Jones opinion isn't reflected in the rest of the league.

Be naive to think Jones is the only one with that opinion no matter how sh1t a gm he is. Plenty of mock drafts and those in know have started dropping Te'o down their boards already. And many had dropped him after the BCS game. Jerry may be a sh1t GM but he isn't always wrong and Im saying that as someone who can't stand him.

Syferus

davyjose wrote: »

If he's genuinely of strong character then yeah. I'm sure Ray Lewis and James Harrison took their share of hazing in their day. You think anyone's calling them out now. My point is: this could make or break the guy. It could hurt him, but it could forge him mentally into a beast.

I definitely think his poor performance against Alabama was affected by all this TBH. And before you call his character into question over that, there aren't many people who wouldn't find a situation such as this distracting.

Also being probably the worst "GM" in the league, I'm pretty certain Jerry Jones opinion isn't reflected in the rest of the league.

Fully agree with the rest but Harrison is a very bad example, a very good player but one of the most dangerous players on the field today, and perhaps even malicious given how frequently he has committed poor tackling form, nevermind other niggles.

People aren't afraid to call him out as a player or as a man, that's for sure.

davyjose

TO. wrote: »

If his poor performance is down to all this drama and not him just playing then it would suggest that he wont get past it and it could be his downfall and shred the any of the character he is known for. Who knows at this point.



Be naive to think Jones is the only one with that opinion no matter how sh1t a gm he is. Plenty of mock drafts and those in know have started dropping Te'o down their boards already. And many had dropped him after the BCS game. Jerry may be a sh1t GM but he isn't always wrong and Im saying that as someone who can't stand him.

Agree about other GM's, and definitely see a few people dropping him off their board, but a few might see this as an opportunity to get a guy who made 1 fcuk up (and we don't fully know how big a fcuk up it is yet) in the 20's or early in the second.

It's different though to be able to put your game face on when this story is about to break, than when it's out in the open and you've dealt with it personally. For example, look how sh!te Wayne Rooney was before his scandal broke. Didn't take him long to being back to one of the best in the league after that. There's plenty of examples of that too. Think it was the same with Gerrard.

davyjose

Syferus wrote: »

Fully agree with the rest but Harrison is a very bad example, a very good player but one of the most dangerous players on the field today, and perhaps even malicious given how frequently he has committed poor tackling form, nevermind other niggles.

People aren't afraid to call him out as a player or as a man, that's for sure.

He doesn't give a sh!t though.

Syferus

Even in a worst case situation I can't imagine teams like the Patriots even considering passing on him if he gets that far. There's no way all 32 teams get a shot at him and no one pulls the trigger. Someone's going to fall in love with him.

And this time the love will be real. Ahem.

polaris68

Mick Mayock discussing how NFL teams will view the Te'o situation.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000127743/How-will-NFL-teams-view-Manti-Te-o-situation

LuckyLloyd

The more I read and hear, the more it seems that a naive and sheltered young man (really a kid) got hoaxed and bought it hook, line and sinker. Is it weird that the Captain of Notre Dame would commit to a seemingly non sexual relationship in which he never met his 'girlfriend'? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, he had the social skills, likeability, leadership qualities and talent to be Defensive Captain at Notre Dame. Whatever the strangeness of the personal life of the man relativelty speaking, this isn't a completely awkward or autistic type case we're talking about.

While I have argued that I don't think he should be a first round pick in terms of his mobility and reading of the game, I have to imagine that some team will begin to see the value if he is still there in the third round.

I agree that there will now be valid questions over how he can handle it. Can he keep the head down and work hard between now and draft day? Can he keep it together in combine interviews as he's being grilled by NFL teams? One thing is for sure - the Alabama performance makes an awful lot more sense now.

Totally ****ing rooting for the guy now. Seems dreadful to me that there are people out there willing to take advantage of someone to such an extent. It's not a crime to be naive and sheltered - well it shouldn't be. I've the fingers crossed he can concentrate on his football and make a career for himself.

Chucky the tree

The awful Alabama performance makes sense because he's just not very good anyway.

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The awful Alabama performance makes sense because he's just not very good anyway.

He's not THAT bad though. Like it or lump it, he's had a very solid College career in all sorts of games during his time at ND. Just because he isn't the first half of the first round talent he was projected to go as doesn't mean he's a 5th round scrub.

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He's not THAT bad though. Like it or lump it, he's had a very solid College career in all sorts of games during his time at ND. Just because he isn't the first half of the first round talent he was projected to go as doesn't mean he's a 5th round scrub.

Not a 5th round scrub but he's not a 1st rounder either.

Mikeyt086

I just really hope whoever drafts him is the team featured in this years' "HARD KNOCKS". Now that would be entertaining.

I'd be dancing on the tables if the eagles got him top of the second

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The awful Alabama performance makes sense because he's just not very good anyway.

Lets take out the Alabama performance and put it down to this other stuff.

Now tell me how you've come to the conclusion that he is not that good?

taidghbaby

Anyone watching the senior bowl practices? Nassib just threw the ball into the back of an o-linemans helmet!

Glennon has thrown a few interceptions!

This is not the year to be looking for a franchise QB me thinks!

HigginsJ

taidghbaby wrote: »

Anyone watching the senior bowl practices? Nassib just threw the ball into the back of an o-linemans helmet!

Glennon has thrown a few interceptions!

This is not the year to be looking for a franchise QB me thinks!

Where you watching that. Those two guys looking for big week to be elevate to 1st round consideration.

taidghbaby

HigginsJ wrote: »

Where you watching that. Those two guys looking for big week to be elevate to 1st round consideration.

Was on NFL network, but there's press conferences with the Harbaughs now - Jim is on now, john has finished!

Think there may be a recap on the senior bowl later on! Mike "I know fukin everything there is to know about draftees" Mayock is covering!

taidghbaby

Also a lot of talk on Nassib going to the Bills!

HigginsJ

taidghbaby wrote: »

Also a lot of talk on Nassib going to the Bills!

Yea it's easy conclusion to come to. Owner is always very up front about the draft and as said they will try draft a franchise QB. Syracuse HC is now the Bills HC.

2+2= Nassib (although 8 overall for him would be huge reach)

taidghbaby

Should 2 + 2 = 8 in this case though? I have seen very little of Nassib so can't really comment!

Also seen Nagler (I think) on twitter saying that a lot of the missed or off-timing throws today are to be expected! Unfamiliar receivers an what not!!

Though throwing the ball into the back of your guards helmet is poor!