Cuts to Rosslare Bus service

bmaxi

This was raised in C&T a few months back
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77658364 but probably has more relevance here as it is a local concern and from what I could gather, few locals were posting in C&T.
New information has started to dribble out and according to SE Radio this morning it appears the changes are due to take place next month.
Three of the changes mentioned were the discontinuation of the service to Rosslare, buses will leave from Wexford town only (not confirmed) and removal of the stops at Camolin and St. Vincent's Hospital. The reasoning being, to better compete with Wexford Bus by reducing journey times.
Now, the question I have to ask is; what sort of irrational idiots draw up these plans. Do they not realise that Wexford bus also stops in Camolin, that the bus actually physically has to pass through Camolin, that the nearest bus stop after St. Vincent's is UCD and Wexford Bus will leave you at the top of Nutley Lane, if you ask? Sick and disabled people are to be required to walk an extra half mile at least, in all weathers, this is supposed to be a Public bus service. Seeing as Wexford Bus do not serve Arklow, will that town be bypassed too?
It is not clear if any reduction in frequency is envisaged but it just pisses me off that BE, which is in receipt of a public subvention, can just present these changes as a fait accomplit, as if they were a private concern.

Geog1234

As I understand it route 2 from Rosslare Europort to Dublin Airport is a commercial express route and not subsidised (though local Bus Éireann routes are subsidised) so Bus Éireann apparently have relatively free reign to change it if they wish (subject to applying to the National Transport Authority). This is all very well but clearly, as the previous post clearly illustrates, route 2 also fulfills an important social function and serves hospitals such as St. Vincent's in Dublin.

Think the routeing in Dublin, the stop at Camolin and the stop Arklow should be left as they are.

Wonder would a partnership between Bus Éireann and Wexford Bus be worth looking at.

bmaxi

Geog1234 wrote: »

As I understand it route 2 from Rosslare Europort to Dublin Airport is a commercial express route and not subsidised (though local Bus Éireann routes are subsidised) so Bus Éireann apparently have relatively free reign to change it if they wish (subject to applying to the National Transport Authority). This is all very well but clearly, as the previous post clearly illustrates, route 2 also fulfills an important social function and serves hospitals such as St. Vincent's in Dublin.

Think the routeing in Dublin, the stop at Camolin and the stop Arklow should be left as they are.

Wonder would a partnership between Bus Éireann and Wexford Bus be worth looking at.

Technically it's true that Expressway services are supposed to be stand alone but in practice that's not the case as they can avail of BE's ancilliary services such as fleet maintenance and vehicle aquisition which, to my mind, makes them very much an integral part of BE and beneficiaries, albeit indirectly of taxpayer subvention. That subvention is provided for social reasons.
I suppose a partnership between BE and Wexford Bus, such as that between BE and Ulsterbus, is a possibility, providing it didn't lead to a merger or takeover. I can't see management in either company rushing to the negotiating table though.

Geog1234

Frequently on journeys I've been on I've seen passengers boarding and alighting at the Nutley Lane (for St. Vincent's Hospital) stop.

I feel it would do no harm for any passengers who use the Nutley Lane stop to make their concerns known to Bus Éireann.

It is possible to write to the company at:

* Bus Éireann, Area Office, Plunkett Station, Waterford. (Rosslare-Dublin Airport route comes under Waterford Area) or

* Bus Éireann, Area Office, Broadstone, Dublin 7.

or by e-mail: infoATbuseireann.ie

Zhane

I hope Wexford Bus never even set foot at the negotiation table about a take over/merger or even a partnership. WB is whipping BE in every way. I actually enjoy using their service.

Pretty Polly

Im surprised more people don't use the Ardcavan bus. I know it only runs once a day in each direction but its a lot faster and cheaper than Bus Eireann.

kmurph

Now official. Buses on route 2 will no longer service Rosslare Harbour from September 23.

http://buseireann.ie/news.php?id=1166&month=Sep

Nicely hidden at the bottom of the page.

Niles

Zhane wrote: »

I hope Wexford Bus never even set foot at the negotiation table about a take over/merger or even a partnership. WB is whipping BE in every way. I actually enjoy using their service.

Wexford Bus' timetable can be (somewhat) misleading in terms of its quoted times. It gives 10 minutes from Gorey to Arklow but I've never seen this happen in reality, even on the early morning services where traffic is at its lightest. Likewise the journey times quoted for the evening departures are not necessarily a true reflection on what is actually on offer; the 16:30 service from the Airport never reaches Gorey at its quoted time on weekdays (no fault of the drivers, just unrealistic times). In contrast Bus Éireann at least give more realistic times in their published timetables.

I'm surprised at the dropping of the Vincents and RDS stops, as the former is quite well used, though at least people can walk or get the 47 from UCD.

More worrying is the dropping of the Beehive, Ballincor, Jack Whites and Inch stops (possibly others I've missed). I doubt these add any considerable length to the journey, and there is no alternative bus available to connect them, unlike the Nutley Lane and Rosslare stops. Wexford Bus serve these stops (apart from Inch) anyway. It's a pity some level of service couldn't be retained, even if only every few hours (similar to that of Inch at present).

bmaxi

Travelled on the 15.30 bus from Busaras the other day. Took 17 minutes from Busaras to Kildare St., 25mins to Donnybrook Church, diverted via Simmonscourt Road to Merrion Road and Nutley Lane where it picked up at least an extra 30% of it's complement. Took all of 30 seconds to travel the length of the "bottleneck" as BE describe Nutley Lane and was 20 mins late arriving in Gorey. So much for increasing the relative speed by changing the route. Just to prove it wasn't a once off, I passed the 17.30 X2 in Gorey tonight at 19.08, 23 mins late. Will we hear any comments from BE on this? I doubt it.

Niles

bmaxi wrote: »

Travelled on the 15.30 bus from Busaras the other day. Took 17 minutes from Busaras to Kildare St., 25mins to Donnybrook Church, diverted via Simmonscourt Road to Merrion Road and Nutley Lane where it picked up at least an extra 30% of it's complement. Took all of 30 seconds to travel the length of the "bottleneck" as BE describe Nutley Lane and was 20 mins late arriving in Gorey. So much for increasing the relative speed by changing the route. Just to prove it wasn't a once off, I passed the 17.30 X2 in Gorey tonight at 19.08, 23 mins late. Will we hear any comments from BE on this? I doubt it.

And bear in mind that the 17:30 X2 no longer goes through Arklow...

Got the 21:30 out of Busáras the other night, and it even it took longer than five minutes to get to Kildare St. (despite the lack of traffic at that hour, as you point out it's worse at busier times.

From my observation they don't seem to be getting out to UCD discernibly quicker than they did via Vincents. So what has resulted from these changes are unrealistic journey times and a load of p*ssed off customers. Well done Bus Éireann.

bmaxi

Niles wrote: »

And bear in mind that the 17:30 X2 no longer goes through Arklow...

Got the 21:30 out of Busáras the other night, and it even it took longer than five minutes to get to Kildare St. (despite the lack of traffic at that hour, as you point out it's worse at busier times.

From my observation they don't seem to be getting out to UCD discernibly quicker than they did via Vincents. So what has resulted from these changes are unrealistic journey times and a load of p*ssed off customers. Well done Bus Éireann.

I've never known it to take 30mins to get to UCD, which is what it would have taken had it not diverted. Obviously the decision to route it via College Green was a mistake, even when the bus gate is in operation there is huge congestion in the area of Nassau St./Kildare St.. But sure it's only the Public Service, nobody suffers except the travelling public.

Niles

Another thought occurred to me re: the scrapping of the Rosslare leg - this is is supposedly to save money (although I assume at least some buses continue on empty anyway to/from the depot). But how cost effective is it to have buses continue on from Busáras to the Airport? I've never seen any bus that well filled arriving in from the Airport at Busáras, and there is still the 747 linking the points anyway.

In theory the Airport extension is attractive from a marketing perspective but one wonders if it's really paying off (in terms of passenger uptake).

bmaxi

Niles wrote: »

Another thought occurred to me re: the scrapping of the Rosslare leg - this is is supposedly to save money (although I assume at least some buses continue on empty anyway to/from the depot). But how cost effective is it to have buses continue on from Busáras to the Airport? I've never seen any bus that well filled arriving in from the Airport at Busáras, and there is still the 747 linking the points anyway.

In theory the Airport extension is attractive from a marketing perspective but one wonders if it's really paying off (in terms of passenger uptake).

I think part of the reason is actual lack of space in Busaras and the immediate environs, might as well have them at the Airport as up in Broadstone. Ironically, on several occasions I've seen people wanting to board the bus, at both Loughlinstown and UCD, to travel to the Airport and being refused. I know this is probably a licensing issue but it must seem strange to visitors to have a bus, with an Airport destination, pull up at a stop and refuse to carry you to the Airport.

Niles

Got what would be the 7:00 ex-Wexford this morning, arrived in Dawson St. at the time it supposedly meant to be at the Airport - no fault of the driver, just the timetable is a work of fiction.

bannowgal

Do any of these long distance journeys have coaches with toilets onboard?

jpb1974

Do any of these long distance journeys have coaches with toilets onboard?

A more appropriate question might be -

Do any of these long distance journeys have coaches with working toilets onboard?

Sometimes there'll be a private operator running a scheduled service for Bus Eireann and they might have a toilet. Usually they don't work... and if they do, then you use them at your own peril, typically they can be quite nasty.

bmaxi

jpb1974 wrote: »

A more appropriate question might be -

Do any of these long distance journeys have coaches with working toilets onboard?

Sometimes there'll be a private operator running a scheduled service for Bus Eireann and they might have a toilet. Usually they don't work... and if they do, then you use them at your own peril, typically they can be quite nasty.

Even some of the BE coaches have toilets but never working ones. Your employer can't ask you to stay for four hours in an environment where there is no toilet but apparently, no matter what your needs, transport companies can, I've often wondered how coach drivers' conditions of employment get around this. It has to be said that some of the longer routes do include stopovers.

Niles

I know Bus Éireann have a few ex-Eurolines coaches on the route with toilets (out of use). Personally I'd rather have a few extra seats instead - as I'm sure would many of those who have been left behind due to no room.

Merkin

Can anyone tell me if the Wexford Bus service is reliable and takes the amount of time is says it does? Just gone to check the Busaras timetable to Rosslare and the journey times are in no way suitable for the ferry? :eek: Also, how easy is it to get a cab from Wexford to Rosslare? Cheers to anyone who can shed some light!

Geog1234

What time/day is the ferry you're hoping to catch? Generally there's quite a few cabs on Redmond Square (where the railway station is and where the Bus Éireann stop and Wexford Bus routes from Dublin terminate).

Merkin

The 9pm from Rosslare, thanks!

Geog1234

If travelling Monday to Friday best bet is the train at 16.37 from Connolly which gets into Europort at 19.25. Unfortunately this train is not reservable for a €9.99 online fare but a Sailrail ticket can be bought over the counter at Connolly station ticket office. Depending on destination in Wales/England just add €15 to the fares shown at:
http://www.stenaline.ie/ferry/rail-and-sail/fishguard/
e.g. Dublin to Carmarthen would be €53.
Ticket can be bought in advance or on day of travel at Connolly. Or ring Irish Rail customer line and option 7 and pay by card (needs to be a week ahead as they post them out).

By bus the last bus from Wexford to Rosslare which would make the 21.00 ferry is at 18.00 Bus Éireann route 385 from outside Wexford railway stn. This runs Mon to Sat. Would need to set out from Dublin on the 14.50hrs Wexford Bus from Georges Quay.

Niles

Merkin wrote: »

Can anyone tell me if the Wexford Bus service is reliable and takes the amount of time is says it does? Just gone to check the Busaras timetable to Rosslare and the journey times are in no way suitable for the ferry? :eek: Also, how easy is it to get a cab from Wexford to Rosslare? Cheers to anyone who can shed some light!

Depends on the time of day. The 16:30 from the Airport to Wexford generally runs late. Bus Éireann aren't much better since they 'improved' the timetable. As Geog1234 says your best bet is probably the train if reliable timekeeping is what you're after.

Merkin

Thanks for advice. Am travelling on a Sunday. Do you reckon bus would be a bit quicker then?

Geog1234

On Sundays the bus allows a slightly later departure from Dublin (only about an hour later though).

Bus option 1:
Wexford Bus from George's Quay (outside Ulster Bank) at 14.50
Arrive Wexford Redmond Square at 17.15

Wexford railway station (adjacent) depart 17.50 Bus Éireann route 40
Rosslare ferry terminal arrive 18.20
(it's also possible to get off the bus in the harbour village where there's a number of pubs, hotel etc... for a bit of food before the ferry. It's about a ten minute walk downhill to the terminal. There's also a café in the terminal).

Fare: Dublin-Wexford €15 single (can be bought online but no saving - same price on bus). Wexford-Rosslare €5.20 single. Total €20.20.


Bus option 2:

Dublin Busáras dep. 14.30 Bus Éireann route 2
Wexford railway station arrive 16.50

(the railway station waiting room should be open. There's an O'Brien's on the square and a Dunnes Stores just across the road)

Wexford railway station (adjacent) depart 17.50 Bus Éireann route 40
Rosslare ferry terminal arrive 18.20

Fare: Dublin-Rosslare online single €18.52. (€19.50 if bought at the ticket office/from ticket vending machine in Busáras). Total €18.52/€19.50

Train option:

Dublin Connolly dep. 13.45
Rosslare Europort arr. 16.32

Niles

Merkin wrote: »

Thanks for advice. Am travelling on a Sunday. Do you reckon bus would be a bit quicker then?

Yeh timekeeping should be ok on a Sunday, I was more thinking of weekdays when remarking on the 16:30's timekeeping standards.

bmaxi

Brought Mrs bmaxi in to Gorey to catch the 10.50 a.m. BE service to Dublin this morning. Just before it was due, not one but two Wexford Bus coaches pulled in, both almost full and it was a revelation to see the difference in attitude between the drivers of these coaches and some, not all, the BE drivers. No such thing as pulling away with intending passengers knocking on the door as I've seen several times with BE, the bus was stopped, the door opened and everybody was happy.
It's little things like this and the fact that Wexford Bus go out of their way to accommodate their customers, rather than make life difficult by withdrawing stops and services that has them winning the battle on the Wexford route. I didn't hang around to see the loading on the BE bus but there were no customers left in Gorey for it, except two people for Arklow.

Niles

Already linked to this in the Commuting & Transport forum but may be of interest here:

http://www.wicklownews.net/Post/2012/12/3635/bus-eireann-do-u-turn-on-wicklow-routes

Bus Eireann have done a U-turn on Wicklow routes according to a letter they sent to Wicklow Councillor Pat Fitzgerald.
The letter read as follows
Following recent correspondence in relation to our commercial Expressway service Route 2 Wexford-Dublin, I wanted to update you on revisions to the route that we have submitted to the National Transport Authority following feedback from yourself, fellow public representatives, and our customers.
The main changes are:
Route 2 will stop in Arklow at Lidl, Main Street & Ferrybank
Some services on route 2 will now stop at Jack White's Cross / Ballinacor / Beehive
There will be a new routing in/out of Dublin City via Lesson Street and Donnybrook to counter congestion, and new stops in Dublin City Centre including the O2 and Convention Centre, IFSC.
We will provide further details to yourself and customers when and if these changes are approved by the National Transport Authority.
Councillor Fitzgerald told Wicklownews.net "It falls short of what we are looking for, what we want is all the stops reinstated and hopefully this can be achieved in the new year."

One wonders will any of the cut Co. Wexford stops (Clough, Inch and all on the Ballycanew road, not to mention Rosslare) get a reprieve. Time keeping on the route has been terrible since the change, apart from the 5/384 services which use the old timetable allowances.