teaching job situation

jane1234

So I would love to hear from other teachers in the Secondary sector. I have been qualified for 3 years. First year I went to UK and last two years I have been doing bits and bobs maternity part time etc. I am getting v fed up with the current situation and signing on each summer. I have just received a letter of rejection from a school that I actually worked for?? I have heard that the job was given to sb who is currently in Oz and is coming back. I presume this is a 'who you know' situation. I hate being negative about the current teaching situation but is anyone else a bit fed up of the way things are? I would like positive stories also as I love Ireland and don t want to leave again but might still consider it. Rant over

Fuinseog

jane1234 wrote: »

So I would love to hear from other teachers in the Secondary sector. I have been qualified for 3 years. First year I went to UK and last two years I have been doing bits and bobs maternity part time etc. I am getting v fed up with the current situation and signing on each summer. I have just received a letter of rejection from a school that I actually worked for?? I have heard that the job was given to sb who is currently in Oz and is coming back. I presume this is a 'who you know' situation. I hate being negative about the current teaching situation but is anyone else a bit fed up of the way things are? I would like positive stories also as I love Ireland and don t want to leave again but might still consider it. Rant over

you would have more job security as a blue collar worker than a teacher.
I notice some principals are very approachable and help you out. others are distant and do not care. you just have to keep trying. if you have a car its very handy.
I just saw a job advertised and I went for an interview at the school two years ago at great personal cost and time. they turned me down and the letter of refusal was sent out before the interview too place. I have since learnt to read the signals of when they are just going through the motions.

RealJohn

Fuinseog wrote: »

I just saw a job advertised and I went for an interview at the school two years ago at great personal cost and time. they turned me down and the letter of refusal was sent out before the interview too place. I have since learnt to read the signals of when they are just going through the motions.

How did you know it was sent before the interview took place? I would imagine the least you could do there is insist that they pay your expenses if you could prove that. (I realise it's a bit late now)

Pebble on the Beach

jane1234 wrote: »

So I would love to hear from other teachers in the Secondary sector. I have been qualified for 3 years. First year I went to UK and last two years I have been doing bits and bobs maternity part time etc. I am getting v fed up with the current situation and signing on each summer. I have just received a letter of rejection from a school that I actually worked for?? I have heard that the job was given to sb who is currently in Oz and is coming back. I presume this is a 'who you know' situation. I hate being negative about the current teaching situation but is anyone else a bit fed up of the way things are? I would like positive stories also as I love Ireland and don t want to leave again but might still consider it. Rant over

My other half is in a similar situation, has worked in England and subbed for a few years here in Ireland, currently waiting to hear back from couple of recent interviews but isn't holding out too much hope as heard months ago that both jobs were already 'earmarked' for former pupils of the respective schools who have just passed their HDip and both of whom have family members working in these schools. I'm sorry I can't be positive as you asked but there's not a lot to be positive about when it comes to teacher recruitment, it's still a case of 'who you know' which is an utter disgrace.

Fuinseog

RealJohn wrote: »

How did you know it was sent before the interview took place? I would imagine the least you could do there is insist that they pay your expenses if you could prove that. (I realise it's a bit late now)

the interview was on a Friday afternoon and the letter of refusal was dated two earlier. I got no response from the principal when I emailed them about it. completely illegal but these kind of things happen.

RealJohn

Fuinseog wrote: »

RealJohn wrote: »

How did you know it was sent before the interview took place? I would imagine the least you could do there is insist that they pay your expenses if you could prove that. (I realise it's a bit late now)

the interview was on a Friday afternoon and the letter of refusal was dated two earlier. I got no response from the principal when I emailed them about it. completely illegal but these kind of things happen.

You shouldn't have contacted the school, you should have contacted the unions.

Pebble on the Beach wrote: »

it's still a case of 'who you know' which is an utter disgrace.

Ah, this again. Funny how hearsay suddenly becomes Gospel when you don't get what you want.

Pebble on the Beach

It's not a case of getting 'what you want', it's a case of cronysm and I don't find it funny at all RealJohn.

RealJohn

Pebble on the Beach wrote: »

It's not a case of getting 'what you want', it's a case of cronysm and I don't find it funny at all RealJohn.

How can you be so sure it's cronyism? You don't know that the people who are getting the jobs aren't the best candidates for the jobs. Maybe there's a reason your boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse/whatever didn't get the job?

Making accusations based on very little evidence isn't helping anyone and it's giving the OP an unnecessarily negative impression of the job situation.

Fuinseog

Pebble on the Beach wrote: »

It's not a case of getting 'what you want', it's a case of cronysm and I don't find it funny at all RealJohn.

most schools will take on a former pupil over an outsider. perhaps also being from the town or city helps.there are several hundred applications for every job. they will not go through them all. having said that I have attended interviews and it was obvious they had not gone through my CV beforehand. there are too many teachers out there so the principals can afford to pick and choose the best candidate.

sparklyEyes111

It's not always about who you know. I worked in a school most days of the year this year in the primary sector being a primary teacher myself, and I went for an interview in the school a few weeks ago. I know everyone there, and I would be close to everyone in the school. I thought I had a good chance of getting a job there that came up. I did find out I was nearly picked , but I lost out to a teacher with 4 years experience that they did not know who only just moved to the area. I have to say as much as it kills me to not get the job, she completely deserved to get it. I'm only been working a year now so she much more deserved it than me. I'm sick of hearing about people getting jobs in who you know situations, it's completely unfair. It happens though, just deal with it.

It's tough, but we're all in the same boat. I myself am off to Dubai now over the current situation so that I'll have my own class and get that experience which is impossible to get here. I'm supposed to have my dip done by two years time but I will be in Dubai now seeing as there's nothing here - I'm hoping the teaching council will extend that for me seeing as I will be working abroad. Also, my friend has 2 years secondary teaching experience and is going to Dubai with me teaching English and History. I'm afraid for the time being you'll just have to keep subbing. The more experience you get the more chance of you getting a job. It's the only way to go.

Would you not consider moving to England again and try and get a permanent position, or Dubai or somewhere where you have the option to have your own classes for the whole year, to get that experience? As well as getting summer pay? I was speaking to another principal I know, and he said he would look for actual classroom experience such as long term subbing in CVs, or having your own classes for a year more than subbing short term in different places.

Pebble on the Beach

Sorry you missed out on the job SparklyEyes111 but pleased that the best candidate was chosen. I wish all schools used the same selection criteria in a fair and transparent manner but most of us know that this just doesn't happen. Yes it's a jungle out there and my OH is going to carry on with whatever subbing work is available, we are in the same boat as so many others and will just try to weather the storm!

I really don't throw accusations about that don't have any substance, I am aware of many situations where qualified, registered, experienced teachers have been overlooked in favour of newly-qualified teachers that have a parent/sibling/aunt/uncle etc currently employed in the school (or on the BOM) and these schools proclaim to be 'equal opportunity' employers when clearly they're not! I could give loads of examples but why bother I'm sure you all know a story or two yourselves! I don't feel I'm giving 'an unnecessarily negative impression of the job situation' at all - I am merely pointing out some of the pitfalls and I'm not going to pretend that the curent job situation for lots of unemployed teachers is anything but dire at the moment. That said, of course it's not all doom and gloom as there are those that manage to secure posts (and in some cases, agains the odds) but it really is fierce competition out there. I do however hope that Jane1234 is one of the lucky ones and manages to find a post to keep her in Ireland!

Perhaps past experience is making me bitter and I may have jumped the gun regarding my OH's recent interviews. I really should try to be more optimistic but my gut feeling is saying otherwise (even if the interviews went pretty well). Only time will tell and I shall post again once I am fully aware of the outcome.

A move out of Ireland would be out of the question for us but I would like to wish you the very best of luck in Dubai SparklyEyes111, I hope it will be a great adventure and a wonderful experience for you!

Naaoise

Fuinseog wrote: »

you would have more job security as a blue collar worker than a teacher.
I notice some principals are very approachable and help you out. others are distant and do not care. you just have to keep trying. if you have a car its very handy.
I just saw a job advertised and I went for an interview at the school two years ago at great personal cost and time. they turned me down and the letter of refusal was sent out before the interview too place. I have since learnt to read the signals of when they are just going through the motions.

Can you specify some of the 'signals'?!!!

Fuinseog

Naaoise wrote: »

Can you specify some of the 'signals'?!!!

I have attended interviews where I was asked questions about my hometown and very little about my professional experience.

I have learnt to read body language and if I see a member of the panel looking at their nails its a sign of boredom and they are not really interested.

They generally keep the interviewees apart but once I was in the waiting room with two girls who knew a teacher at the school. who was on the panel and came out to chat with them before the interview.


'Do you think this was a fair interview?" a strange question, but I have been asked this.

Naaoise

Fuinseog wrote: »

I have attended interviews where I was asked questions about my hometown and very little about my professional experience.

I have learnt to read body language and if I see a member of the panel looking at their nails its a sign of boredom and they are not really interested.

They generally keep the interviewees apart but once I was in the waiting room with two girls who knew a teacher at the school. who was on the panel and came out to chat with them before the interview.


'Do you think this was a fair interview?" a strange question, but I have been asked this.

Ok thanks...that was so unprofessional of that panel member talking to candidates like that...yea, I've been asked that question bout the interview being fair and wondered myself if that was code for 'were we nice to you coz u r not getting the job!'

mtoutlemonde

Fuinseog wrote: »

I have attended interviews where I was asked questions about my hometown and very little about my professional experience.

I have learnt to read body language and if I see a member of the panel looking at their nails its a sign of boredom and they are not really interested.

They generally keep the interviewees apart but once I was in the waiting room with two girls who knew a teacher at the school. who was on the panel and came out to chat with them before the interview.


'Do you think this was a fair interview?" a strange question, but I have been asked this.

I was at an interview and the first question was 'Could you tell me the origins of your surname?' - what has that to do with the post I applied for? (I didn't say that obviously). Interview going well - after talking about my extracurricular activities and saying that sport would not be one of the greatest talents I could bring the last interviewer said 'I know you have said that you don't have an interest in sport but Could you tell me in about 6-7 sentences how Galway are going to get on Sunday in French?' (The All-Ireland Hurling final was on Sunday). Jez I couldn't answer that in English (I didn't say that either)

Chris68

I was asked in one interview to give the details of the fall in salary that I had experienced in changing from a previous job to this one. I was also asked how I was managing to cope with out the bigger salary. I managed to stop myself from pointing out I didn't have this job - yet - and I was coping with the help of social welfare!

Fuinseog

Chris68 wrote: »

I was asked in one interview to give the details of the fall in salary that I had experienced in changing from a previous job to this one. I was also asked how I was managing to cope with out the bigger salary. I managed to stop myself from pointing out I didn't have this job - yet - and I was coping with the help of social welfare!

the panel is made up of people who have been in a secure position for years and have no idea what it is like to be unemployed.They are as much in touch as politicians are.

you really are expected to sit and wait for their call and appear for interview within the hour.

the way they treat people does not inspire loyalty to the school.

wingnut

Who you know still gets jobs in teaching - may not be in all cases but it is a huge element.

In the UK they have a practice that I think makes a lot of sense - teachers at interview have to teach a class in front of the interviewers. To me it makes a lot of sense to see a teacher in action VS qualifications on paper.

Having worked at both second and third level I would love if someone did a study into the amount of relatives working in the same school/college it HAS to be well above international figures. I worked in one place where four senior members of staff all had their own offspring working in their departments.

Equality

As a previous poster commented, if you are asked about your kids or anything not relevant to the job then you probably are not getting the job. It is fine for these questions to be asked at the beginning, to get off to a good start, but if the whole interview focuses on your knowledge of your own kids, the job is gone to someone else.

I had one pal who heard one interviewer asking another 'Is that the girl who is getting the job?' before her interview. Answer 'no, it is X's daughter'.

Fuinseog

a lot of principals are suspicious of someone who has worked in a non teaching job and who suddenly decided to go into teaching.

I have worked in a large amount of schools where a relative of the principal was employed, in some cases they were not even qualified teachers.
just because someone can speak English does not mean they can teach the subject.

I remember on one occasion a principal's son in their twenties went around the school as if they were the VP. You would be teaching a class and they would just walk in and talk to the class as if you were not there. I pointed this out to the principal as being inappropriate which was a bad idea as it screwed up my reference.c'est la vie. put up and shut up.

Chris68

Fuinseog wrote: »

a lot of principals are suspicious of someone who has worked in a non teaching job and who suddenly decided to go into teaching.

I can understand that a sudden change might be suspicious. In my own case - when I was asked about the drop in salary - there was nothing sudden about it. I had been teaching part-time as an undergraduate prior to the previous job and I had already been out of that job and back into teaching going on for 12 years!

PingO_O

I experienced something similar to Fuinseog,dropped in my CV for teaching placement, called up a few days later for an appointment and it was quite obvious they hadn't read it. I came out of there baffled and couldn't believe I'd been so nervous beforehand.

"They are as much in touch as the politicians are" I'd fully believe it so don't feel too bad that you can't get work