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Management Installed Cameras

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  • 20-07-2012 9:39pm
    #1
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭


    I came home from work this morning to find cctv cameras have been installed in our apartment building with not so much as a note from the management company to tell us that they are doing it, nevermind explaining why they're doing it.
    I could be wrong but I am under the impression that they would have first needed to check with all residents that they are ok/comfortable with them being installed in the first place?


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    #2
    rcdk1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 558 ✭✭✭rcdk1


    Some info on CCTV on the Data Commissioner's website: https://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=242


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    #3
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Did your management company hold an AGM recently? Normally such things are decided at an AGM.

    Alternatively your board of directors of the management company had them installed. This is probably due to recent incidents, such as damage or insurance claims.

    In short, no, they don't need to check/inform all residents. But, they should inform all management company members (unit owners).


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    #4
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭jd


    We decided a few years ago at the OMC AGM to install cameras throughout our complex. Because of the cost, it was decided to install them over a number of years. Funnily enough, they were only installed in our block this week..


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    #5
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    Paulw wrote: »

    In short, no, they don't need to check/inform all residents. But, they should inform all management company members (unit owners).

    Ah well.
    I genuinely believed that as residents we would have had to agree to it.
    I mean, if you go to a shop or something and don't wish to give consent to be filmed/monitored, you can waive your decision to enter that shop, but since this is our home, we have no alternative and are sort of forced to accept them.

    Thanks fir your replies.


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    #6
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    The camera's are no doubt installed in common areas like corridors, stairwells, entrance lobbt's etc. These areas are owned by the OMC and are not yours. You just lease a right of access through them to get to your property.

    Directors have control over the decision making process in any OMC. If they had to 'ask' every time a decision needed to be made it would be counter productive. Although I would of probably of communicated a matter like this prior to installation.

    As previous posters have stated it may well of been discussed at an AGM to which you were invited but were unable/unwilling to attend? In fact since the MUD act 2011 came into being all AGM's have required member authorisation by vote approval for any annual budgets so if they were in a budget for 2012 which was approved post april 2011 then it should of been voted for and approved at an AGM by the members that attended.


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    #7
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    I understand you feel bad with the camera's but you wont even notice there up there after a while OP.

    With the way things are going these days robberies and all that it's great to have these up for security and I believe everyone should have them even for their private homes.

    If there have been problems or there is in the future these camera's would be a great addition to have.

    They aren't filming inside your property just protecting the outside.

    I myself am waiting for a camera system so can install on my house.


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    #8
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    Yeah I get what you're saying, it makes sense that this was all agreed before I was on the scene.
    Lantus wrote: »
    These areas are owned by the OMC and are not yours. You just lease a right of access through them to get to your property
    Yeah I get what you're saying, but imagine for a minute that I or somebody else that lives here doesn't want to be filmed. We would have no way to get to our homes and would be forced to break our lease because the LL/Management co didn't inform us of their installation.


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    #9
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    Put a mask on...

    The footage isn't free for anyone to look at.

    With the camera's up there might never be any trouble so may never be looked at.


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    #10
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    miller50841 wrote: »
    I understand you feel bad with the camera's but you wont even notice there up there after a while OP.

    With the way things are going these days robberies and all that it's great to have these up for security and I believe everyone should have them even for their private homes.

    If there have been problems or there is in the future these camera's would be a great addition to have.

    They aren't filming inside your property just protecting the outside.

    I myself am waiting for a camera system so can install on my house.

    Ah yeah, but I just find our management company are utterly useless and that do things like this instead of dealing with the actual problems we have in the area.


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    #11
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    senordingdong wrote: »
    but imagine for a minute that I or somebody else that lives here doesn't want to be filmed.
    I'd wonder why.


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    #12
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    the_syco wrote: »
    I'd wonder why.

    Why is irrelevant.


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    #13
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    the_syco wrote: »
    I'd wonder why.

    I wouldn't.

    CCTV in shops / public is pretty much anonymous. CCTV where you live isn't.

    As a resident I'd wonder why they felt the need to install the CCTV and whether it is warranted. Is there a history of anti social behaviour INSIDE the apartment block? Who has access to the footage? Is it being monitored or just recorded? How long will it be retained for?

    Is it a vanity project from a nosey neighbour on the managment committee who wants to keep tabs on other residents?


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    #14
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    Is there a history of anti social behaviour INSIDE the apartment block? Who has access to the footage? Is it being monitored or just recorded? How long will it be retained for?

    Is it a vanity project from a nosey neighbour on the managment committee who wants to keep tabs on other residents?

    Nope. No history of anti social behaviour whatsoever.
    A few noise complaints but that's usually from other buildings.

    Furthermore, we have no idea who has access to the footage, who is monitoring it and why, or how long it will be retained for or any other notice of this, as we should have gotten in line with section 2(D) of the data protection act.


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    #15
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭jd


    Actually in the complex I am in there had been problems and it was decided at an AGM (5 years ago) to install the cameras - no one disagreed. There are far less burglaries and instances of anti-social behaviour than there had been.

    There had been issues with brothels and drug dealers and the cameras aided the OMC in getting rid of these people with the help of the police.


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    #16
    ebixa82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ebixa82


    senordingdong wrote: »
    I came home from work this morning to find cctv cameras have been installed in our apartment building with not so much as a note from the management company to tell us that they are doing it, nevermind explaining why they're doing it.
    I could be wrong but I am under the impression that they would have first needed to check with all residents that they are ok/comfortable with them being installed in the first place?

    Are you mad?

    If only I had them in my complex. Bikes being stolen from car park, illegal dumping in bins etc. Post boxes being forced open every couple of weeks.

    If cameras were installed to prevent this I'd be delighted.

    However, all I tend to do between entering the complex and opening my apt door is walk, sometimes quite hastily. Nothing that I'd be worried anyone could see me do.

    However, if you do tend to partake in activities you would prefer others not see then I understand your concern.

    You also need to understand it is not some kind of 1984 24/7 CCTV monitoring. They would be checked on only if an incident occurs that requires footage.


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    #17
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭jd


    ebixa82 wrote: »
    You also need to understand it is not some kind of 1984 24/7 CCTV monitoring. They would be checked on only if an incident occurs that requires footage.
    Yip that's the way it works in our complex. Recorded on to hard drive, only reviewed if there is an incident, and rotated (every 2 weeks I think)


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    #18
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Are you renting or do you own a unit? If you own, have you attended recent AGMs and has the issue been discussed?

    If you are renting, then you have absolutely no say at all.


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    #19
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    senordingdong wrote: »
    Furthermore, we have no idea who has access to the footage
    Ah. In any cases of CCTV in apartments I've seen, there is usually a sign saying who is watching you, where the feed is linked to, etc.


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    #20
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    ebixa82 wrote: »
    Are you mad?

    If only I had them in my complex. Bikes being stolen from car park, illegal dumping in bins etc. Post boxes being forced open every couple of weeks.

    If cameras were installed to prevent this I'd be delighted.

    However, all I tend to do between entering the complex and opening my apt door is walk, sometimes quite hastily. Nothing that I'd be worried anyone could see me do.

    However, if you do tend to partake in activities you would prefer others not see then I understand your concern.

    You also need to understand it is not some kind of 1984 24/7 CCTV monitoring. .

    Horses for courses. OP has stated that to his knowledge there is no anti social activity inside the apartment block.
    They would be checked on only if an incident occurs that requires footage

    Do you know this for a fact? If so, how?


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    #21
    ebixa82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ebixa82


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    Horses for courses. OP has stated that to his knowledge there is no anti social activity inside the apartment block.



    Do you know this for a fact? If so, how?

    So you think the management company is going to pay for a dedicated 24/7 team to monitor the public areas of an apartment complex?

    Haha


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    #22
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    ebixa82 wrote: »
    So you think the management company is going to pay for a dedicated 24/7 team to monitor the public areas of an apartment complex?

    Haha

    I have no idea, but if they haven't had the courtesy to post a notice or stick a notice in peoples letter boxes then who knows?

    As I said maybe a nosey neighbour is monitoring the footage.


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    #23
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    I have no idea, but if they haven't had the courtesy to post a notice or stick a notice in peoples letter boxes then who knows?

    Who knows - the management agent and the directors of the management company, at the very least.

    Again, the OP hasn't clarified if they are a unit owner or just a tenant, and if they have attended the Company AGM if they are an owner. Very important issues there.


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    #24
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    Paulw wrote: »
    Who knows - the management agent and the directors of the management company, at the very least.

    Not good enough.
    Again, the OP hasn't clarified if they are a unit owner or just a tenant, and if they have attended the Company AGM if they are an owner. Very important issues there.

    Largely irrelevant. There should be notices up or a leaflet in all apartment letter boxes for something significant like this as it was about to be introduced.

    I would expect better treatment of the OP and his fellow residents. Incidentally I'm Treasurer of my Management Committee, the apparent lack of openness / transparency here is my main issue.

    I also have witnessed nosey neighbours who get on the Management Committee and uses it for settling scores etc.


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    #25
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    Largely irrelevant. There should be notices up or a leaflet in all apartment letter boxes for something significant like this as it was about to be introduced.

    But, a full letter may have gone out to all members of the management company, the unit owners. It would then be up to them to notify their tenants.

    We don't have the full details, so we're only guessing.

    I've been a director of our management company for over 4 years. The only obligation of the management agent is to the management company and the only obligation of the management company is to it's members. Anything else is then between those unit owners and their tenants.


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    #26
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    Maybe everyones post was robbed so they decided to put in cctv.
    It can also be used to check whats been put in bins.
    Also as someone said it may be there to look after common areas as in safety equipment isn't taken or tampered with.

    It will make the complex a safer place


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    #27
    monkeypants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    Get and wear a balaclava to and from your apartment. You'll soon find out whether it's monitored or not.


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    #28
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭jd


    Just an update on this, turns out the OP is in the same block as I am. The decision was made after some debate and a vote at an AGM about 5 years ago as there had been problems in the complex with both insiders and outsiders. It was agreed that CCTV would be introduced gradually throughout the estate and that there would be an increase in management fees to fund this capital expenditure. There were no objections to this. The budget for this has been approved at each AGM and is minuted etc - all owners are aware of what is happening here. At the end of this year the whole complex will have CCTV. However it is not actively monitored and recordings are only reviewed after incidents.

    There *had* been problems even in our particular block with an individual who had been selling gear but he was eventually evicted. There was another apartment that had frequent parties and domestic disputes in public areas - that took some time to take care of. There was the brothel next door, that was sorted out with the help of the Gardai and the CCTV footage.

    I'm not sure if the cameras are active as of yet, but I see the OMC has put up notices in this block re the cameras.


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    #29
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    jd wrote: »
    Just an update on this, turns out the OP is in the same block as I am. The decision was made after some debate and a vote at an AGM about 5 years ago as there had been problems in the complex with both insiders and outsiders. It was agreed that CCTV would be introduced gradually throughout the estate and that there would be an increase in management fees to fund this capital expenditure. There were no objections to this. The budget for this has been approved at each AGM and is minuted etc - all owners are aware of what is happening here. At the end of this year the whole complex will have CCTV. However it is not actively monitored and recordings are only reviewed after incidents.

    There *had* been problems even in our particular block with an individual who had been selling gear but he was eventually evicted. There was another apartment that had frequent parties and domestic disputes in public areas - that took some time to take care of. There was the brothel next door, that was sorted out with the help of the Gardai and the CCTV footage.

    I'm not sure if the cameras are active as of yet, but I see the OMC has put up notices in this block re the cameras.

    Indeed, I see that a small sticker has been put up on every floor to say that video and audio recording is in operation.


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