Sean Quinn - A man more sinned against than sinning?

ArmaniJeanss

musings wrote: »

Am I the only one who wonders why Sean Quinn is being hauled through the courts and nothing has happened ANY of the bankers who mislead him into investing in the bank?

This is a phoney argument, its one step up from 'Guard, stop hassling me for breaking a red light when you should be out catching armed robbers'.

M three

SocSocPol wrote: »

Quinn was the biggest, to quote youre words, "cnut", of all, he is is proven to be a liar and dishonest to the core.
Hell is not hot enough nor eternity not long enough for any of that criminal family!

If you really believe that, and i doubt you do, you havent a clue what you're on about.
Stop believing all the bull**** you're fed by rte and the irish independent

Delancey

Quinn was driven by pure greed - nothing more , nothing less. The richest man in Ireland by a distance but he wasn't satisfied with that and had to have even more hence his failed foray into Anglo shares.

He's the architect of his own misfortune and I hope he goes to the slammer too.

Pottler

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

This is a phoney argument, its one step up from 'Guard, stop hassling me for breaking a red light when you should be out catching armed robbers'.

No, It's a fair point. Hound ahead after Quinn, that's fair enough, but pray tell why no Banker has yet been accused of fraud, despite there being ample evidence? In many other jurisdictions, prosecutions would have been rapidly enacted for share-price rigging, insider trading, fraudulent misrepresentation, etc etc. No, as said, off ye go good lads, here's a bonus, keep your pension and don't mind those plebs, sir.

M three

Delancey wrote: »

Quinn was driven by pure greed - nothing more , nothing less. The richest man in Ireland by a distance but he wasn't satisfied with that and had to have even more hence his failed foray into Anglo shares.

He's the architect of his own misfortune and I hope he goes to the slammer too.

Thats a post driven by pure spite.

ejmaztec

Delancey wrote: »

Quinn was driven by pure greed - nothing more , nothing less. The richest man in Ireland by a distance but he wasn't satisfied with that and had to have even more hence his failed foray into Anglo shares.

He's the architect of his own misfortune and I hope he goes to the slammer too.

He's worse now because he's driven by pure desperation.

ArmaniJeanss

Pottler wrote: »

No, It's a fair point. Hound ahead after Quinn, that's fair enough, but pray tell why no Banker has yet been accused of fraud, despite there being ample evidence? In many other jurisdictions, prosecutions would have been rapidly enacted for share-price rigging, insider trading, fraudulent misrepresentation, etc etc. No, as said, off ye go good lads, here's a bonus, keep your pension and don't mind those plebs, sir.

There doesn't seem to be 'ample' evidence.
There is lots of rumour, finger pointing, and 'dogs in the street know' stuff though.

But whether an ill-resourced Garda fraud squad could gather the evidence in such a way that the DPP would consider a very complicated case winnable (given the lack of solid legislation in this whole area) in a possible 24+month trial in front of a jury of financially unsavvy people; doubtful imo.

****
Please don't take this as me condoning them, I'd be as happy as you to see them in court.

afterburn1

Callan57 wrote: »

OK he provided some jobs in an area crying out for jobs but he also gambled insanely with those jobs and the livelyhoods of his employees.

Understatement of the year!:eek:

Callan57

SafeSurfer wrote: »

One thing that I am convinced of is that banking is the most corrupt industry on the planet.

In any other industry the laws of capitalism are allowed to take their natural course. In the banking industry, corruption, incompetence, criminality etc are accepted with little or no consequences for the perpetrators.

On this small island as an example we have experienced wholesale fraud by our financial institutions from ICC to non resident accounts. Who ended up paying?, thats right the consumer. The bank's liability in the bogus non resident accounts scandal was capped while the liability of the account holders was unlimited. No prosecutions, no resignations of senior bank management, just gilt edge pensions, golden handshakes and business as usual.

The Libor scandal in the UK is another example. The UK taxpayer will more than likely pick up the tab for this criminality because these institutions are literally too big to fail and no government is going to risk not continuing bailing out these cancerous parasites given the impact that Lehman brothers collapse had on the global financial system.

We are living in societies where the protection of these institutions is taking precedence over the well being of citizens. Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley et al are the masters of the universe, the power of our politicians and our powers as an electorate pails into insignificance compared to the power wielded internationally by perhaps as few as 100 men (almost exclusively) in the top positions of a handful of banks.

These are the facts as I see them. We are living in a dystopian present without realising how little influence we have on our present or our future as a society. Sure vote for Fianna Fail instead of Fine Gael or Labour instead of the Conservatives or the Republicans instead of the Democrats. It matters not a whit.

That's why JC bate them out of the Temple :mad:
You are 100% correct ... the banks are holding governments and countries to ransom. It is a complete & utter usurption of democracy and if anyother industry behaved in a similar fashion they would be accused of blackmail.
They are basically pillaging nations & need to be stopped :mad:

thebaz

musings wrote: »

I feel sympathy for the man.

that he owes the state billions , and tries to default on any repayments or self responsibility through a myriad of complicated Eastern European transactions - hoodwinking the likes of yourself on National television , that he is just a simple plain Irish man, living on 100 euros a week (in his palace), harmed by the very people he owes money to - meanwhile the citizens ,who he owes this money to , have to endure year on year of harsh austerity - symapthy ? -

one word GREED

mikom

Delancey wrote: »

Quinn was driven by pure greed - nothing more , nothing less. The richest man in Ireland by a distance but he wasn't satisfied with that and had to have even more hence his failed foray into Anglo shares.

He's the architect of his own misfortune and I hope he goes to the slammer too.

M three wrote: »

Thats a post driven by pure spite.

*looks at M three's post history*

*notes down 2nd higest result "Cavan 33"*

You could as a follow up say that your reply was driven by pure parochialism.

Fishtits

Quinn was driven by pure greed - nothing more , nothing less. The richest man in Ireland by a distance but he wasn't satisfied with that and had to have even more hence his failed foray into Anglo shares.

This best sums it up.

It would seem that he made his initial fortune "simply" ie buy for "x" sell for "X2" fair enough...

It seems that when he got involved in "personal" projects, ie insurance that he wandered into a realm way beyond his comfort zone - at the time he had the cash flow to allow a learning curve, when that dried up it was writing on the wall time.

The foray into Anglo was greed, nothing else.

Why should the employees loose they're houses while he keeps his and countless millions?

It came back to bite him, tough sh*t.

Three months is another joke. They should all, senior included, be locked up until they come clean to the extent that his creditors are happy.

The collapse of this "hero"'s empire has tossed countless folks into the fire, while he lives it up?

afterburn1

Wow this thread has really enlightened me. The reason for austerity in Ireland is entirely Sean Quinns fault. Fcuk me!, it was that simple all along.

thebaz

afterburn1 wrote: »

Wow this thread has really enlightened me. The reason for austerity in Ireland is entirely Sean Quinns fault. Fcuk me!, it was that simple all along.

name me any individual who owes the Irish state more than Sean Quinn ? - and more importantly any other individual who went to such lengths, to hide all his wealth amongst family and eastern european ventures, so as not repay any of his debts - the epitome of pure Greed

cunnifferous

afterburn1 wrote: »

Wow this thread has really enlightened me. The reason for austerity in Ireland is entirely Sean Quinns fault. Fcuk me!, it was that simple all along.

Yes, a relatively small but significant amount of the current austerity is due to the money that the government had to put in Anglo. Sean Quinn owes that money to Anglo and thus the Irish government. Why should he be exempt from paying that back?

Tropheus

bubblypop wrote: »

but he was sold on the investment by conmen

So you're confirming that he was a gob****e?

afterburn1

thebaz wrote: »

name me any individual who owes the Irish state more than Sean Quinn ? - and more importantly any other individual who went to such lengths, to hide all his wealth amongst family and eastern european ventures, so as not repay any of his debts - the epitome of pure Greed

Any money he owed was to a corrupt bank run by corrupt cnuts. The fact that dimwit politicians chose to turn this into sovereign debt is the real problem.:rolleyes:

Madam_X

peasant wrote: »

Next someone will tell us that Bbbbbertie is a Gentleman, a fine upstanding citizen and basically just misunderstood

What is it with the fanboy-ism for crooks in this country?

"The man's a fecking legend", "You have to admire his balls", "He only did what any of ye would do", "You shower of begrudgers"... etc.

cunnifferous

afterburn1 wrote: »

Any money he owed was to a corrupt bank run by corrupt cnuts. The fact that dimwit politicians chose to turn this into sovereign debt is the real problem.:rolleyes:

The government shouldn't have nationalised anglo, that's just stating the obvious. If it wasn't nationalised, ownership would have fallen to the bondholders who would most likely be pursuing creditors (including Sean Quinn) with even more vigor than the government currently is. He is legally required to pay the money he owes back. Why should he be excused from his debt and allowed to keep his estimated €500 million assets?!

K-9

I have sympathy for him to a certain extent, he got into things he didn't understand, running a huge concrete business, a few hotels and pubs, he was good at, the glass company was very shrewd.

Somehow he got into CFD's. The Tribune when it was going put it into very simple terms, Quinn had the biggest single loss ever in CFD's in the world! He didn't have a clue what he was getting into. Buffet and the likes lost far more, but not in one single transaction and made a fortune back.

Plenty of builders have been made bankrupt and assets seized. Quinn personally benefited from making the boom times boomier. If Anglo etc. are to blame so is Quinn, he benefited from the construction boom.

I'd love for someone to explain to me in simple bullet points why he's a dickhead.

tritium

Quinn chose to invest in Anglo using contracts for difference rather than buying share. The only reason to do this is to be a bit sneaky and hide his shareholding. He took a gamble and it failed. As a result he couldn't afford to ditch the investsment when Anglo's share price went south and so like the classic gambling addict he bet good money after bad. No one asked him to gamble on the market. Now he's decided that he doesn't want to pay the money back

Too bad!

Callan57

I don't understand why Sean Quinn Jnr was jailed for 3 months .... I thought if you were convicted of contempt of court you were normally jailed until you "purged your contempt"

In all honesty though I have to admit that if it hadn't been for the guarantee dragging the Irish taxpayers into the mix I would be delighted to see the Quinn's and Anglo slogging it out and I'd be saying fair bloody play to Quinn for pulling a fast one! (Just being honest)

fran17

i feel alot of sympathy for him,the guy started out with a loan for £100 and built everything from the bottom up.the day when sean fitzpatrick is brought to book is when real justice is served.but with his political ties and knowledge surrounding the bank guarantee i fear that day will never come.bastard

Callan57

Callan57 wrote: »

I don't understand why Sean Quinn Jnr was jailed for 3 months .... I thought if you were convicted of contempt of court you were normally jailed until you "purged your contempt"

In all honesty though I have to admit that if it hadn't been for the guarantee dragging the Irish taxpayers into the mix I would be delighted to see the Quinn's and Anglo slogging it out and I'd be saying fair bloody play to Quinn for pulling a fast one! (Just being honest)

Have to laugh at this. I'm sure Quinn appreciates the support up in his mansion that you'll be paying for - that is if you ever even pay any sort of meaningful tax, which I doubt.

fran17

fran17 wrote: »

i feel alot of sympathy for him,the guy started out with a loan for £100 and built everything from the bottom up.the day when sean fitzpatrick is brought to book is when real justice is served.but with his political ties and knowledge surrounding the bank guarantee i fear that day will never come.bastard

Why support one gambler and not the other?

ronano

no

a crook is a crook, watched the rte new report last night and it was basically a pr play for 'ah shure aint he great really'. wtf is wrong with this county when all of us are playing for quinns actions and yet and we still like him.

R P McMurphy

I think if Sean Quinn had played the political game like the others he would not be in the same level of trouble he currently finds himself in. Didn't grease the right hands at the right time. Sure he would still have lost his companies over his failed investments in Anglo. Where are the golden circle members in al of this and why have they not been named yet

desertcircus

What on earth is with the Sean Quinn defenders with low post counts who appear out of the woodwork every time he gets mentioned in AH?

And less of this "he's only protecting his family, we'd all do it". No. Not all of us would defy a court order and see our son sent to prison to try and maintain our vast personal wealth. This isn't about a guy trying to make sure his family have a roof over their head, this is about an extremely wealthy family using means of dubious legality to frustrate the efforts of IBRC to collect what they're legally entitled to. Anyone who was really trying to protect their family wouldn't let their son get sent down for it.

As for the idea that "Ireland's greatest entrepreneur" was sold a pup and was an innocent party:
1. He's not an idiot; he was smart enough to set up the Quinn group in the first place.
2. He used loans which he knew to be illegal to buy his shareholding, which should have been a HUGE red flag.
3. When you're a billionaire using illegal loans to buy €288 million worth of something as an investment, the idea that you don't know what you're really in for is utterly ridiculous.

fran17

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Why support one gambler and not the other?

no sean quinn is paying for his mistakes and thats fine by me but he and fitzpatrick are two very differant people.he may have lied to try and save his empire but that other bastard lied and held a gun to the head of the country