Sean Quinn - A man more sinned against than sinning?

mikom

M three wrote: »

Be careful now, showing that kind of love towards Mikom may mean he'll check out your posting history to see if he can find you

bluecode

M three wrote: »

Skipped the country?? The guy lives in fermanagh, the arrest warrant is invalid there outside of ROI, so the court in dublin has to apply for a european arrest warrant.

Get your facts right please.

That's a rather pathetic defence of his actions. He's exploiting a technicality. It's highly unlikely a European arrest warrant could be obtained or served for the offence for which he is accused. He knew this and now you do also. Those are the facts.

He's out of the juristiction, knowing he's untouchable. Credit to his uncle and cousin. They were man enough to turn up in court and brazen it out. He took the cowardly option and implies he's fully aware that of the implications of his actions to hide money from the courts.

They're crooks and deserve no one's support.

Galwayguy35

concernman wrote: »

Please sign this petition to support the Quinn Family.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/people-of-ireland-support-the-quinn-family

No I won't sign your petition. Some people seem to think this guy is a saint but the rest of us don't.
He made most of his money this side of the border and then tries to declare himself bankrupt in NI.
He tries to hide assets which basically belong to us the taxpayers seeing as we will be paying off Anglos debts for what looks like the rest of our working lives.
Then his nephew does a runner.
Keep your petition.

M three

bluecode wrote: »

That's a rather pathetic defence of his actions. He's exploiting a technicality. It's highly unlikely a European arrest warrant could be obtained or served for the offence for which he is accused. He knew this and now you do also. Those are the facts.

He's out of the juristiction, knowing he's untouchable. Credit to his uncle and cousin. They were man enough to turn up in court and brazen it out. He took the cowardly option and implies he's fully aware that of the implications of his actions to hide money from the courts.

They're crooks and deserve no one's support.

It was on a technicality that receivers were appointed to quinn insurance in the first place.

Whats sauce for the goose.....

mikom

M three wrote: »

Whats sauce for the goose.....

Quite fitting, since Quinns goose is almost cooked....

M three

mikom wrote: »

Quite fitting, since Quinns goose is almost cooked....

No doubt thats what Anglo want to do.

But with so many posters on here cheering on anglo's actions and no doubt being as vocal in their condemnation of seanie fitz, david drumm, patrick neary etc etc Ireland will soon be a better place.

Ye wouldn't want to be hypocrites after all I'm sure....

SocSocPol

M three wrote: »

Skipped the country?? The guy lives in fermanagh, the arrest warrant is invalid there outside of ROI, so the court in dublin has to apply for a european arrest warrant.

Get your facts right please.

If you have such a problem with the above point have you been as vocal in condemning Brendan Drumm? He moved to the USA when the sh1t hit the fan ages ago.
If you want people arrested start with him

Get your facts right please, Contempt of Court is NOT an extraditable offence, no no European Arrest Warrant can be issued.
Quinn is just another lowdown cowardly crook, hopefully he get his, karma can cruel.

musings

The Irish State's behaviour in this case would make a Russian Oligarch blush

Some facts:

1. Quinn's maximum debt to the State through his failed investment in Anglo is €2.8 billion euro
2. The state has taken control of Quinn Group, which is worth approx. €4 billion, so it has taken more off Quinn than it needed to clear his debt, so why wouldn't Quinn try to stop them taking control of his Assets?


The Irish State has gouged this man's wealth and has done its best to blacken his name. It is disgusting that our State would do this to any citizen, let alone a model citizen like Quinn.

Stheno

musings wrote: »

2. The state has taken control of Quinn Group, which is worth approx. €4 billion, so it has taken more off Quinn than it needed to clear his debt, so why wouldn't Quinn try to stop them taking control of his Assets?


.

Is this true? Liberty insurance bought out the car insurance side, and Laya have taken on the healthcare side?

What 4bn part of Quinn do the state own?

M three

Stheno wrote: »

Is this true? Liberty insurance bought out the car insurance side, and Laya have taken on the healthcare side?

What 4bn part of Quinn do the state own?

Wasnt Quinn Healthcare taken over by MBO first? Using a loan from Swiss RE group?

SocSocPol

M three wrote: »

Wasnt Quinn Healthcare taken over by MBO first? Using a loan from Swiss RE group?

NO.
The trading name of the new MBO is LAYA, who they leveraged the deal with is immaterial.

tayto lover

musings wrote: »

The Irish State's behaviour in this case would make a Russian Oligarch blush

Some facts:

1. Quinn's maximum debt to the State through his failed investment in Anglo is €2.8 billion euro
2. The state has taken control of Quinn Group, which is worth approx. €4 billion, so it has taken more off Quinn than it needed to clear his debt, so why wouldn't Quinn try to stop them taking control of his Assets?


The Irish State has gouged this man's wealth and has done its best to blacken his name. It is disgusting that our State would do this to any citizen, let alone a model citizen like Quinn.

While I have no time for the Quinns who were excessively greedy I agree with your point about the State. I believe that many senior politicians were in cahoots with Anglo and took their side to prevent the truth coming out. I would also love to know what happened on the night of the Bank guarantee.

M three

SocSocPol wrote: »

NO.
The trading name of the new MBO is LAYA, who they leveraged the deal with is immaterial.

No what? Of course its relevant if they took on a loan to buy the company.
You dont think its relevant if debt is used to take over a company??

After all this is what the Quinn case is all about, the quinn group borrowed money from quinn insurance, elderfield claimed that quinn insurance hadnt enough money to cover potential claims, and called in administrators to quinn insurance.

Elderfield was brought in to supposedly sort out financial regulation, and instead went after the quinns. What has elderfield done since apart from take over a credit union in kildare? He certainly hasnt addressed one of the main problems, which was his predecessor in the job, neary. Instead neary gets a massive golden handshake

M three

tayto lover wrote: »

While I have no time for the Quinns who were excessively greedy I agree with your point about the State. I believe that many senior politicians were in cahoots with Anglo and took their side to prevent the truth coming out. I would also love to know what happened on the night of the Bank guarantee.

Would be helpful if minutes of the meetings that took place that night were released.
Oh wait, the gobsh*tes didnt take any....

brandon_flowers

Nice to see support for this petition from all the right people.

Wudyaquit

Greaney wrote: »

2) When this illegal and risky venture was going to wipe out his family fortune he started moving his assets, business etc. into other countries. He moved his offices up North so he could declare himself bankrupt in the Republic.

No. His offices have been in the North from the day he started business - he was supposed to have operated (after he had already lost Quinn group) from a factory in cavan for a couple of months but Quinn Group has always been based in the North. Assets have been moved as per your third point but there have been no businesses relocated.

Greaney wrote: »

So what is currently happening is that he's being taken to court in Ireland by the Irish Bank Resolution Company (IBRC) to basically get the money back that is owed to Anglo which is now Owned by the State and so are all it's debts. Because he and his son & Nephew wouldn't cough up info, they're being held on contempt of court.

No. They were in contempt of court for breaking court orders barring them from transferring assets and they were unable to purge that contempt (by reversing the transactions).

Stheno wrote: »

Is this true? Liberty insurance bought out the car insurance side, and Laya have taken on the healthcare side?

What 4bn part of Quinn do the state own?

The state haven't taken 4bn but they've taken well more than the €500m that's beyond dispute (hotels / glass / quarries / cement etc.). There are cases ongoing for the other 3.2bn - anywhere else in the western world, the Government couldn't just decide to take over a company while the claims on that company are in dispute, particularly not when payments have been kept up up to that point and where they have to go into another jurisdiction to do so (still no explanation as to the legal grounds on which they did that). They've proceeded to cut off Quinn's access to finance to avoid the risk of him being able to mount a case against them.

It's quite easy to take a blinkered view of the Quinn case - "that's our money that he's robbing etc. etc.". It's not our money. If a court decides that Anglo acted with complete propriety then it's the taxpayers money. Until that it's not - it's disputed debt that a borrower owed to a private bank that the Government decided to take on.

The Government and Anglo have made politically motivated decisions that without doubt have guaranteed that less money will be retrieved.
The punishment for Quinn will never be enough for some people - complaints about where SQ jr has been placed etc. but there has been a huge amount of misinformation put forward on this case.

And yes, of course, I'm a knuckle dragger with my head up my a*se for supporting quinn. I just can't get my head around these complex issues like others and would support Michael Lowry and Bertie Ahern (because they're the same as Quinn of course)

tritium

concernman wrote: »

Please sign this petition to support the Quinn Family.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/people-of-ireland-support-the-quinn-family

When squadrons of piglets are flying across the frozen wastelands of hell I still won't have signed this

SocSocPol

Wudyaquit wrote: »

No. His offices have been in the North from the day he started business. Assets have been moved as per your third point but there have been no businesses relocated.

No. They were in contempt of court for breaking court orders barring them from transferring assets and they were unable to purge that contempt (by reversing the transactions).


The state haven't taken 4bn but they've taken well more than the €500m that's beyond dispute (hotels / glass / quarries / cement etc.). There are cases ongoing for the other 3.2bn - anywhere else in the western world, the Government couldn't just decide to take over a company while the claims on that company are in dispute, particularly not when payments have been kept up up to that point and where they have to go into another jurisdiction to do so (still no explanation as to the legal grounds on which they did that). They've proceeded to cut off Quinn's access to finance to avoid the risk of him being able to mount a case against them.

It's quite easy to take a blinkered view of the Quinn case - "that's our money that he's robbing etc. etc.". It's not our money. If a court decides that Anglo acted with complete propriety then it's the taxpayers money. Until that it's not - it's disputed debt that a borrower owed to a private bank that the Government decided to take on.

The Government and Anglo have made politically motivated decisions that without doubt have guaranteed that less money will be retrieved.
The punishment for Quinn will never be enough for some people - complaints about where SQ jr has been placed etc. but there has been a huge amount of misinformation put forward on this case.

And yes, of course, I'm a knuckle dragger with my head up my a*se for supporting quinn. I just can't get my head around these complex issues like others andwould support Michael Lowry and Bertie Ahern (because they're the same as Quinn of course)[/QUOTE]
the only accurate part of your post.

Wudyaquit

SocSocPol wrote: »

the only accurate part of your post.

Just about hte standard level of critical analysis generally put forward on this case

goat2

tayto lover wrote: »

While I have no time for the Quinns who were excessively greedy I agree with your point about the State. I believe that many senior politicians were in cahoots with Anglo and took their side to prevent the truth coming out. I would also love to know what happened on the night of the Bank guarantee.

i am very thankful to the quinn.s in the past, i got all my children insured in their first cars with quinn direct, they were the people who made it affordable for our young to become indipendently insured in their own cars, while others were quoting me sixteen hundred to two and a half thousand euro, quinnes insured for under a thousand euro, for that i am thankful,
i am also thankful that they are placing the plame where it belong, with the bank who wrecked the lot, now that the quinns have been destroyed, jobs lost through all of this,
i do hope the bank take the blame for the lot.

an offshore entity

Wudyaquit wrote: »

Just about hte standard level of critical analysis generally put forward on this case

Hear Hear!

stepbar

The Quinn Family had all this. All this.

Unbelievable when you think about it. And the actions of one man and a dodgy bank destroyed the whole lot. The only people I feel sad for are the families in the border counties who are suffering because of the reckless actions of Sean Quinn and Anglo Irish Bank.

afterburn1

Quinn was never popular with the powers that be in this country. There are age old allegiances between politicians and companies in the state that he dared take on. Cement roadstone for example (a company that was an amalgamation of the stated owned Irish cement and the Roches brothers roadstone) or the state owned vhi. Without Quinn insuring a car was nigh on impossible for the youngsters of this country and as for the bull**** about the company not having enough funds to pay out claims. What chance ever of every policy having to make a claim simultaneously? And not forgetting the great unions of our country.:o
The Quinn family borrowed nothing from the taxpayers of this country. Themselves and Anglo should have been left to slug it out in the courts.

daenerysstormborn3

At the time the money was not borrowed from the taxpayers but now that taxpayers own that bank it is owed to us. Irrelevant of your support of this man, do you not realise that if he does pay back this money that we will have to?

I don't buy that someone of his alleged "business acumen" was talked into taking all that money by the big bad bankers.

And now he and his family are continuing to break the law. Yeah, my heart bleeds for him :rolleyes:

M three

pixiebean22 wrote: »

At the time the money was not borrowed from the taxpayers but now that taxpayers own that bank it is owed to us. Irrelevant of your support of this man, do you not realise that if he does pay back this money that we will have to?

I don't buy that someone of his alleged "business acumen" was talked into taking all that money by the big bad bankers.

And now he and his family are continuing to break the law. Yeah, my heart bleeds for him :rolleyes:

I hear this a lot on this thread, the taxpayer owns Anglo now, so we must go after quinn for everything. Do you know the government has pumped 63 billion into banks? People are taking the get quinn line from the likes of the irish independant and getting very vocal about it. And completely forgetting about the vastly bigger, more important picture.

Quinn would have repaid his debts completely. But instead the asset strippers got to work, to the ultimate benefit of foreign companies

mikom

M three wrote: »

But instead the asset strippers got to work, to the ultimate benefit of foreign companies

I saw asset strippers alright............ but these ones were negotiating with the Eastern European mob.

M three

mikom wrote: »

I saw asset strippers alright............ but these ones were negotiating with the Eastern European mob.

I should have guessed you'd be a daily mail fan.

hardCopy

bubblypop wrote: »

its not sean quinns fault that the government bailed out the banks.

yea he got a bit greedy, but he was sold on the investment by conmen.

and now all he is doing is trying to salvage as much as he can for his family.
nothing that any of the rest of us wouldnt do. be honest.

never extravagant, now he is getting held up as this terrible person. he isnt, no-one would have jobs in the north west if it wasnt for him. believe me.

Owning a helicopter = extravagant

M three

stepbar wrote: »

The Quinn Family had all this. All this.

Unbelievable when you think about it. And the actions of one man and a dodgy bank destroyed the whole lot. The only people I feel sad for are the families in the border counties who are suffering because of the reckless actions of Sean Quinn and Anglo Irish Bank.

This idea that he only generated jobs for people in border counties is wide of the mark, he employed thousands of people from all over Ireland, England and further afield.
The border counties line comes in handy when anyone dare question anglo's, the government or elderfields motives. Oh its those parochial, border county luddites again.
Those opinion pieces in the media are really having the desired effect

M three

hardCopy wrote: »

Owning a helicopter = extravagant

Remember to say that if you get stranded someplace and you get rescued by one.
Owning a helicopter does not automatically equal extravagance.

However pointing out that someone who does own one is extravagant may be evidence of begrudgery, something thats never in short supply in ireland

Boombastic

My OH supports Sean Quinn. He reckons because he wasn't politically connected he was shafted, the good that he done should be recogonised and if the government had to have left him alone he would of paid it back.


:rolleyes:

stepbar

M three wrote: »

Quinn would have repaid his debts completely.

From what? This is the nonsense that Sean Quinn and his family continue to peddle to anyone who will listen.

The Quinn Group made a loss of €888mil in 2009 and a further loss of €339 mil in 2010 (lets remember that Quinn Insurance was put into administration in March 2010 and did not form part of the group and was not included in it's accounts - Quinn Insurance lost €160 mil in 2010 for the record). At its peak in 2006, the entire group made a profit of €376 mil. The company was loss making in 2007 due to a write down in the value of investments.

Assuming full repayments of €2.8bil of debt over 7 years would mean that the entire group would have needed to generate profits of over €400 mil a year. And that's without any interest being taken account of. And as well as that there was a insolvency issue in Quinn Insurance which needed a cash injection; a contracting Construction industry and to top it all off the worst recession in this country for decades. Fairyland stuff. Apparently this 7 year plan had the backing of Deutsche Bank.... why didn't they invest so? Why did Liberty and Anglo have to inject €200 mil to recapitalise Quinn Insurance? Why did all the lenders to the remaining Quinn Group need to take a debt write down?

The 7 year plan was absolute waffle and could not have been achieved.

Wudyaquit

stepbar wrote: »

The 7 year plan was absolute waffle and could not have been achieved.

Deutche Bank disagreed with you. In fact Anglo even supported the plan, but the financial regulator, (who had no prescribed role in deciding who took over) went against it.

Regardless of whether you think the plan would have worked or not, with how the companies have performed since the takeover it's clear the bank would have recovered more had they not taken over when they did. They took Quinn out and put in pen pushers who have been "running" the companies from Dublin. This was all for the purpose of cutting off finance to Quinn so that he couldn't sue over the Quinn Direct debacle.

Most graphic illustration of the difference in competence was Michael Noonan bragging on tv about having persuaded the bondholders to take a 50% cut. He saved not one red cent - a child of 7 could negotiate more competently.

The guys now running the companies are goldfish swimming with sharks. Anyone who thinks they are better able to negotiate and run these companies than Quinn are beyond deluded.

I guess tho the OP's question is regarding whether SQ has been treated fairly. Anglo and the Government have not acted competently, but more-so they haven't acted fairly in their approach. The decisions that have been made haven't been for the benefit of the taxpayer - they were made to appease bondholders and for political gain. This has been a dirty, murky debacle and the more you read about what's happened, the angrier you get. Perhaps the anti-quinn people do to, but what galls most is that the villains are still succeeding in masquerading as the heroes.

zenno

Boombastic wrote: »

My OH supports Sean Quinn. He reckons because he wasn't politically connected he was shafted, the good that he done should be recogonised and if the government had to have left him alone he would of paid it back.


:rolleyes:

The three of them should get 20 years minimum. Why people are defending these crooks is beyond me. We are paying for their gamble now so f*ck them.

SocSocPol

Wudyaquit wrote: »

Deutche Bank disagreed with you. In fact Anglo even supported the plan, but the financial regulator, (who had no prescribed role in deciding who took over) went against it.

Regardless of whether you think the plan would have worked or not, with how the companies have performed since the takeover it's clear the bank would have recovered more had they not taken over when they did. They took Quinn out and put in pen pushers who have been "running" the companies from Dublin. This was all for the purpose of cutting off finance to Quinn so that he couldn't sue over the Quinn Direct debacle.

Most graphic illustration of the difference in competence was Michael Noonan bragging on tv about having persuaded the bondholders to take a 50% cut. He saved not one red cent - a child of 7 could negotiate more competently.

The guys now running the companies are goldfish swimming with sharks. Anyone who thinks they are better able to negotiate and run these companies than Quinn are beyond deluded.

I guess tho the OP's question is regarding whether SQ has been treated fairly. Anglo and the Government have not acted competently, but more-so they haven't acted fairly in their approach. The decisions that have been made haven't been for the benefit of the taxpayer - they were made to appease bondholders and for political gain. This has been a dirty, murky debacle and the more you read about what's happened, the angrier you get. Perhaps the anti-quinn people do to, but what galls most is that the villains are still succeeding in masquerading as the heroes.

That one word best describes your post.
Quinn his wife, kids, and nephew should be in Jail, and hopefully some day soon they will.
The Constitution of the country should be changed to allow us to strip them and their ilk of citizenship.

MagicSean

M three wrote: »

I hear this a lot on this thread, the taxpayer owns Anglo now, so we must go after quinn for everything. Do you know the government has pumped 63 billion into banks? People are taking the get quinn line from the likes of the irish independant and getting very vocal about it. And completely forgetting about the vastly bigger, more important picture.

Quinn would have repaid his debts completely. But instead the asset strippers got to work, to the ultimate benefit of foreign companies

What evidence have you to suggest he would have paid any of his debts? That "big picture" you talk of is made up of people like Quinn who borrowed at unsustainable levels for dodgy or stupid schemes and projects.

Ellis Dee

What's all this BS about "sinning". There is no such thing as sinning, because the sky fairy doesn't exist, no matter how much Sean Quinn may invoke it and, like so many others who take on the law and lose, try to put on a pious front.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

No, it is not sin that is involved here, but possible fraud - which is a CRIME.:eek:

Quinn gambled unsuccessfully with others' money in a bid to become even richer and he and members of his extended family are now accused of attempting to conceal substantial amounts of assets that belong rightfully to others, not least the Irish taxpayer. One of his co-accused is even on the run and probably out of the jurisdiction by now. Who is the offender here?

The place to answer those charges is a court of law, not a confessional.:cool:

hardCopy

M three wrote: »

Remember to say that if you get stranded someplace and you get rescued by one.
Owning a helicopter does not automatically equal extravagance.

However pointing out that someone who does own one is extravagant may be evidence of begrudgery, something thats never in short supply in ireland

The Northwest must really miss his Quinn Rescue Helicopter, such a philanthropist.

MagicSean

M three wrote: »

Remember to say that if you get stranded someplace and you get rescued by one.
Owning a helicopter does not automatically equal extravagance.

However pointing out that someone who does own one is extravagant may be evidence of begrudgery, something thats never in short supply in ireland

Are you suggesting Sean Quinn bought a helicopter to rescue people?

M three

SocSocPol wrote: »

That one word best describes your post.
Quinn his wife, kids, and nephew should be in Jail, and hopefully some day soon they will.
The Constitution of the country should be changed to allow us to strip them and their ilk of citizenship.

Pretty spiteful stuff there soc, have you actually given that much thought? Quinn paid tens of millions in taxes as a citizen of this country. Compared to the off shore bunch of people who claim to be irish, but live abroad so they dont have to pay tax here.

afterburn1

hardCopy wrote: »

Owning a helicopter = extravagant

Helicopter my backside. A lear jet my friend, he had long since progressed from the helicopter. When you have such a vast business empire why would you not have one anyway?;)

mikom

M three wrote: »

Remember to say that if you get stranded someplace and you get rescued by one.

Quinns helicopter?

M three wrote: »

Owning a helicopter does not automatically equal extravagance.

Possibly, if you are the state and use it for search and rescue purpose like you vainly tried to link it to

M three wrote: »

However pointing out that someone who does own one is extravagant may be evidence of begrudgery, something thats never in short supply in ireland

I suppose people begrudged Bertie as well.

Wudyaquit

SocSocPol wrote: »

That one word best describes your post.
Quinn his wife, kids, and nephew should be in Jail, and hopefully some day soon they will.
The Constitution of the country should be changed to allow us to strip them and their ilk of citizenship.

With the exception of my subjective opinion that the companies aren't being run well by the receivers, my post was objectively factual.
Your post reflects the opinions you've swallowed from the media - "This is our money he's stealing etc. etc." Unwilling and no doubt unable to argue on any particular issue, but just give a blanket thanks whore comment. Completely ill-informed. And no doubt patting yourself on the back for being able to understand these issues unlike the half-wits that can't see Quinn for what he is.

MagicSean wrote: »

What evidence have you to suggest he would have paid any of his debts?

No, we should assume they wouldn't pay their debts. And throw everyone with a mortgage out on the assumption that they won't pay theirs either

MagicSean

Wudyaquit wrote: »

With the exception of my subjective opinion that the companies aren't being run well by the receivers, my post was objectively factual.
Your post reflects the opinions you've swallowed from the media - "This is our money he's stealing etc. etc." Unwilling and no doubt unable to argue on any particular issue, but just give a blanket thanks whore comment. Completely ill-informed. And no doubt patting yourself on the back for being able to understand these issues unlike the half-wits that can't see Quinn for what he is.


No, we should assume they wouldn't pay their debts. And throw everyone with a mortgage out on the assumption that they won't pay theirs either

We don't have to assume anything. The courts have done that. He was transferring assets to avoid them being held against his debts. He is fighting tooth and nail to hold on to his money in the courts.

Hotblack Desiato

Wudyaquit wrote: »

And throw everyone with a mortgage out on the assumption that they won't pay theirs either

Everyone with a mortgage who is shifting their assets overseas to avoid paying their debts here, yeah...

Wudyaquit

MagicSean wrote: »

We don't have to assume anything. The courts have done that. He was transferring assets to avoid them being held against his debts. He is fighting tooth and nail to hold on to his money in the courts.

M three's point was that he would have paid his debts had Anglo not taken over - you somehow feel he should provide evidence to support this point. Where is your evidence that he wouldn't have in light of the fact that he hadn't missed a payment up to the point when Anglo took over?
To say he's not going to pay the debts now (if the courts decide that the debts are even enforceable) is stating the obvious - Anglo's ousting of him made sure he will never be able to should the debts be valid - but that clearly wasn't the point M three was making.

SocSoc Liked your post tho, God bless him.

ninja900 wrote: »

Everyone with a mortgage who is shifting their assets overseas to avoid paying their debts here, yeah...

Again, M three's point was that Quinn would have paid his debts if Anglo hadn't moved in. Which exact assets were shifted overseas at that point?

And more to the point, which debts has Quinn not paid? There is only €500m of undisputed debt which has already been paid a couple of times over. But hey, we only care about the legal position when it works against the Quinns.

stepbar

Wudyaquit wrote: »

.

The guys now running the companies are goldfish swimming with sharks. Anyone who thinks they are better able to negotiate and run these companies than Quinn are beyond deluded.

What nonsence :rolleyes:

The Quinn Group was loss making in 2007, 2009 and 2010. Quinn was in still in charge during those years. In 2011, the Quinn Group narrowed it's loss to €44.3 mil (after giving it's bankers a bath).

Deutche Bank disagreed with you. In fact Anglo even supported the plan, but the financial regulator, (who had no prescribed role in deciding who took over) went against it.

Regardless of what happened with Anglo, Sean Quinn of his own free will invested personal funds in Anglo shares (purchased by CFD's). He didn't even put up the full cost of same shares. Anglo was nationalised and because of Sean Quinn's reckless actions, he lost his company. You can argue that until the cows come home; that is fact. The boys in Anglo will have their day in court for their recklessness.

If Deutsche bank believed in the plan they would have bailed the Quinn Group out. It ended up costing €200 mil to bail out Quinn Insurance (€100 mil than the Quinns had estimated). And furthermore, Grant Thornton have estimated that a further €800 mil - €1 bil will be needed to plug the deficit within Quinn Insurance (aka Liberty Insurance). It's very convenient for Sean Quinn to have people believe that the Financial Regulator wanted him out. Very convenient.

Finally, during the Quinn Direct years; the company didn't even have an actuary!!! Sean Quinn is some man to be talking about solvency ratios....

joseph brand

musings wrote: »

You mean the bill that Anglo stuck him my husband with and that he's paying?

FYP

joseph brand

M three wrote: »

Remember to say that if you get stranded someplace and you get rescued by one.
Owning a helicopter does not automatically equal extravagance.

Dr Dre and Scoopy Dogg Dog rescued me in the snow, in the Wicklow mountains in their helicopter. Salt of the earth they were. Helicopter was full of b*tches. Fo Realz.

Wudyaquit

stepbar wrote: »

What nonsence :rolleyes:

The Quinn Group was loss making in 2007, 2009 and 2010. Quinn was in still in charge during those years. In 2011, the Quinn Group narrowed it's loss to €44.3 mil (after giving it's bankers a bath).

Those figures are what's nonsense - Group losses were down to servicing of the debt. Even if the new crowd were this dream team you clearly think they are, do you really think they could turn around a company this size in 6 months, amidst turmoil and an initial exodus of customers?
How did the bankers take a bath exactly? What is for sure, if there was any chance of Quinn Group failing the bond holders would have taken a cut in order to get something back. Instead they rubbed their hands together as Anglo took over and proceeded to pay them every cent.

stepbar wrote: »

Regardless of what happened with Anglo, Sean Quinn of his own free will invested personal funds in Anglo shares (purchased by CFD's). He didn't even put up the full cost of same shares. Anglo was nationalised and because of Sean Quinn's reckless actions, he lost his company. You can argue that until the cows come home; that is fact. The boys in Anglo will have their day in court for their recklessness.

If Deutsche bank believed in the plan they would have bailed the Quinn Group out. It ended up costing €200 mil to bail out Quinn Insurance (€100 mil than the Quinns had estimated). And furthermore, Grant Thornton have estimated that a further €800 mil - €1 bil will be needed to plug the deficit within Quinn Insurance (aka Liberty Insurance). It's very convenient for Sean Quinn to have people believe that the Financial Regulator wanted him out. Very convenient.

What the hell are you on about, DB investing in the company? They were independent consultants who don't even operate in insurance. Why on earth would they invest in a company where they would be bottom of the creditors list without a hope of seeing 1 cent back in 7 years? They were advising on the Quinn/Anglo plan's chances of success. I guess they should invest in every company on the planet who they don't think is going out of business. Or maybe they should ask you before making a recommendation since you're clearly so au fait with corporate financing. Ridiculous.

How are the accounts of Liberty doing now that Quinns are gone by the way? Grant Thornton increased the reserves by over €100 in December 2010 in order to reflect poorer performance in the company. Even allowing for this bit of creative accounting, the disastorous performance in the interim has lead to a massive reduction in written premium, with Liberty refusing to confirm if there'll be additional redundancies.
But you will still, no doubt, believe that Grant Thronton with mainly non-insurance professionals working for them, spending literally millions on consultants, have managed to turn around that loss making dog, Quinn Insurance. It took them TWO YEARS to say, "Oh wait, we need another half a billion to sort this out, silly us, but that's nothing to do with what were doing - we're doing a great job". And lo and behold in a year's time they'll come back saying, "Actually we did a really good job and only needed 250m aren't we great". They simply are out of their depth in a highly competitive industry. And before you crack out the one that Quinn Insurance made a loss in 2008 - every insurance company in Ireland made an underwriting loss that year - the company was and should still be one of the most profitable companies in Ireland.

I have no argument with the contempt case, but what is getting my goat most on all of this is the Anti-Quinn camp shouting the odds about how dumb those who support Quinn are, but invariably have no clue what they're talking about. Your posts are a good case in point.