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Sean Quinn - A man more sinned against than sinning?

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    #152
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    M three wrote: »
    Be careful now, showing that kind of love towards Mikom may mean he'll check out your posting history to see if he can find you :D:D

    :D


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    #153
    bluecode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭bluecode


    M three wrote: »
    Skipped the country?? The guy lives in fermanagh, the arrest warrant is invalid there outside of ROI, so the court in dublin has to apply for a european arrest warrant.

    Get your facts right please.
    That's a rather pathetic defence of his actions. He's exploiting a technicality. It's highly unlikely a European arrest warrant could be obtained or served for the offence for which he is accused. He knew this and now you do also. Those are the facts.

    He's out of the juristiction, knowing he's untouchable. Credit to his uncle and cousin. They were man enough to turn up in court and brazen it out. He took the cowardly option and implies he's fully aware that of the implications of his actions to hide money from the courts.

    They're crooks and deserve no one's support.


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    #154
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,555 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    concernman wrote: »
    Please sign this petition to support the Quinn Family.

    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/people-of-ireland-support-the-quinn-family

    No I won't sign your petition. Some people seem to think this guy is a saint but the rest of us don't.
    He made most of his money this side of the border and then tries to declare himself bankrupt in NI.
    He tries to hide assets which basically belong to us the taxpayers seeing as we will be paying off Anglos debts for what looks like the rest of our working lives.
    Then his nephew does a runner.
    Keep your petition.


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    #155
    M three
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭M three


    bluecode wrote: »
    That's a rather pathetic defence of his actions. He's exploiting a technicality. It's highly unlikely a European arrest warrant could be obtained or served for the offence for which he is accused. He knew this and now you do also. Those are the facts.

    He's out of the juristiction, knowing he's untouchable. Credit to his uncle and cousin. They were man enough to turn up in court and brazen it out. He took the cowardly option and implies he's fully aware that of the implications of his actions to hide money from the courts.

    They're crooks and deserve no one's support.

    It was on a technicality that receivers were appointed to quinn insurance in the first place.

    Whats sauce for the goose.....


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    #156
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    M three wrote: »

    Whats sauce for the goose.....

    Quite fitting, since Quinns goose is almost cooked....


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    #157
    M three
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭M three


    mikom wrote: »
    Quite fitting, since Quinns goose is almost cooked....

    No doubt thats what Anglo want to do.

    But with so many posters on here cheering on anglo's actions and no doubt being as vocal in their condemnation of seanie fitz, david drumm, patrick neary etc etc Ireland will soon be a better place.

    Ye wouldn't want to be hypocrites after all I'm sure....


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    #158
    SocSocPol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭SocSocPol


    M three wrote: »
    Skipped the country?? The guy lives in fermanagh, the arrest warrant is invalid there outside of ROI, so the court in dublin has to apply for a european arrest warrant.

    Get your facts right please.

    If you have such a problem with the above point have you been as vocal in condemning Brendan Drumm? He moved to the USA when the sh1t hit the fan ages ago.
    If you want people arrested start with him
    Get your facts right please, Contempt of Court is NOT an extraditable offence, no no European Arrest Warrant can be issued.
    Quinn is just another lowdown cowardly crook, hopefully he get his, karma can cruel.


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    #159
    musings
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭musings


    The Irish State's behaviour in this case would make a Russian Oligarch blush

    Some facts:

    1. Quinn's maximum debt to the State through his failed investment in Anglo is €2.8 billion euro
    2. The state has taken control of Quinn Group, which is worth approx. €4 billion, so it has taken more off Quinn than it needed to clear his debt, so why wouldn't Quinn try to stop them taking control of his Assets?


    The Irish State has gouged this man's wealth and has done its best to blacken his name. It is disgusting that our State would do this to any citizen, let alone a model citizen like Quinn.


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    #160
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    musings wrote: »

    2. The state has taken control of Quinn Group, which is worth approx. €4 billion, so it has taken more off Quinn than it needed to clear his debt, so why wouldn't Quinn try to stop them taking control of his Assets?


    .

    Is this true? Liberty insurance bought out the car insurance side, and Laya have taken on the healthcare side?

    What 4bn part of Quinn do the state own?


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    #161
    M three
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭M three


    Stheno wrote: »
    Is this true? Liberty insurance bought out the car insurance side, and Laya have taken on the healthcare side?

    What 4bn part of Quinn do the state own?

    Wasnt Quinn Healthcare taken over by MBO first? Using a loan from Swiss RE group?


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    #162
    SocSocPol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭SocSocPol


    M three wrote: »
    Wasnt Quinn Healthcare taken over by MBO first? Using a loan from Swiss RE group?
    NO.
    The trading name of the new MBO is LAYA, who they leveraged the deal with is immaterial.


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    #163
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,919 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    musings wrote: »
    The Irish State's behaviour in this case would make a Russian Oligarch blush

    Some facts:

    1. Quinn's maximum debt to the State through his failed investment in Anglo is €2.8 billion euro
    2. The state has taken control of Quinn Group, which is worth approx. €4 billion, so it has taken more off Quinn than it needed to clear his debt, so why wouldn't Quinn try to stop them taking control of his Assets?


    The Irish State has gouged this man's wealth and has done its best to blacken his name. It is disgusting that our State would do this to any citizen, let alone a model citizen like Quinn.

    While I have no time for the Quinns who were excessively greedy I agree with your point about the State. I believe that many senior politicians were in cahoots with Anglo and took their side to prevent the truth coming out. I would also love to know what happened on the night of the Bank guarantee.


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    #164
    M three
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭M three


    SocSocPol wrote: »
    NO.
    The trading name of the new MBO is LAYA, who they leveraged the deal with is immaterial.

    No what? Of course its relevant if they took on a loan to buy the company.
    You dont think its relevant if debt is used to take over a company??

    After all this is what the Quinn case is all about, the quinn group borrowed money from quinn insurance, elderfield claimed that quinn insurance hadnt enough money to cover potential claims, and called in administrators to quinn insurance.

    Elderfield was brought in to supposedly sort out financial regulation, and instead went after the quinns. What has elderfield done since apart from take over a credit union in kildare? He certainly hasnt addressed one of the main problems, which was his predecessor in the job, neary. Instead neary gets a massive golden handshake


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    #165
    M three
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭M three


    tayto lover wrote: »
    While I have no time for the Quinns who were excessively greedy I agree with your point about the State. I believe that many senior politicians were in cahoots with Anglo and took their side to prevent the truth coming out. I would also love to know what happened on the night of the Bank guarantee.

    Would be helpful if minutes of the meetings that took place that night were released.
    Oh wait, the gobsh*tes didnt take any....


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    #166
    brandon_flowers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭brandon_flowers


    Nice to see support for this petition from all the right people.


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    #167
    Wudyaquit
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭Wudyaquit


    Greaney wrote: »
    2) When this illegal and risky venture was going to wipe out his family fortune he started moving his assets, business etc. into other countries. He moved his offices up North so he could declare himself bankrupt in the Republic.
    No. His offices have been in the North from the day he started business - he was supposed to have operated (after he had already lost Quinn group) from a factory in cavan for a couple of months but Quinn Group has always been based in the North. Assets have been moved as per your third point but there have been no businesses relocated.
    Greaney wrote: »
    So what is currently happening is that he's being taken to court in Ireland by the Irish Bank Resolution Company (IBRC) to basically get the money back that is owed to Anglo which is now Owned by the State and so are all it's debts. Because he and his son & Nephew wouldn't cough up info, they're being held on contempt of court.
    No. They were in contempt of court for breaking court orders barring them from transferring assets and they were unable to purge that contempt (by reversing the transactions).
    Stheno wrote: »
    Is this true? Liberty insurance bought out the car insurance side, and Laya have taken on the healthcare side?

    What 4bn part of Quinn do the state own?
    The state haven't taken 4bn but they've taken well more than the €500m that's beyond dispute (hotels / glass / quarries / cement etc.). There are cases ongoing for the other 3.2bn - anywhere else in the western world, the Government couldn't just decide to take over a company while the claims on that company are in dispute, particularly not when payments have been kept up up to that point and where they have to go into another jurisdiction to do so (still no explanation as to the legal grounds on which they did that). They've proceeded to cut off Quinn's access to finance to avoid the risk of him being able to mount a case against them.

    It's quite easy to take a blinkered view of the Quinn case - "that's our money that he's robbing etc. etc.". It's not our money. If a court decides that Anglo acted with complete propriety then it's the taxpayers money. Until that it's not - it's disputed debt that a borrower owed to a private bank that the Government decided to take on.

    The Government and Anglo have made politically motivated decisions that without doubt have guaranteed that less money will be retrieved.
    The punishment for Quinn will never be enough for some people - complaints about where SQ jr has been placed etc. but there has been a huge amount of misinformation put forward on this case.

    And yes, of course, I'm a knuckle dragger with my head up my a*se for supporting quinn. I just can't get my head around these complex issues like others and would support Michael Lowry and Bertie Ahern (because they're the same as Quinn of course)


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    #168
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,441 ✭✭✭tritium


    concernman wrote: »
    Please sign this petition to support the Quinn Family.

    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/people-of-ireland-support-the-quinn-family

    When squadrons of piglets are flying across the frozen wastelands of hell I still won't have signed this


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    #169
    SocSocPol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭SocSocPol


    Wudyaquit wrote: »
    No. His offices have been in the North from the day he started business. Assets have been moved as per your third point but there have been no businesses relocated.

    No. They were in contempt of court for breaking court orders barring them from transferring assets and they were unable to purge that contempt (by reversing the transactions).


    The state haven't taken 4bn but they've taken well more than the €500m that's beyond dispute (hotels / glass / quarries / cement etc.). There are cases ongoing for the other 3.2bn - anywhere else in the western world, the Government couldn't just decide to take over a company while the claims on that company are in dispute, particularly not when payments have been kept up up to that point and where they have to go into another jurisdiction to do so (still no explanation as to the legal grounds on which they did that). They've proceeded to cut off Quinn's access to finance to avoid the risk of him being able to mount a case against them.

    It's quite easy to take a blinkered view of the Quinn case - "that's our money that he's robbing etc. etc.". It's not our money. If a court decides that Anglo acted with complete propriety then it's the taxpayers money. Until that it's not - it's disputed debt that a borrower owed to a private bank that the Government decided to take on.

    The Government and Anglo have made politically motivated decisions that without doubt have guaranteed that less money will be retrieved.
    The punishment for Quinn will never be enough for some people - complaints about where SQ jr has been placed etc. but there has been a huge amount of misinformation put forward on this case.

    And yes, of course, I'm a knuckle dragger with my head up my a*se for supporting quinn. I just can't get my head around these complex issues like others andwould support Michael Lowry and Bertie Ahern (because they're the same as Quinn of course)[/QUOTE]
    the only accurate part of your post.


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    #170
    Wudyaquit
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭Wudyaquit


    SocSocPol wrote: »
    the only accurate part of your post.

    Just about hte standard level of critical analysis generally put forward on this case


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    #171
    goat2
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    tayto lover wrote: »
    While I have no time for the Quinns who were excessively greedy I agree with your point about the State. I believe that many senior politicians were in cahoots with Anglo and took their side to prevent the truth coming out. I would also love to know what happened on the night of the Bank guarantee.
    i am very thankful to the quinn.s in the past, i got all my children insured in their first cars with quinn direct, they were the people who made it affordable for our young to become indipendently insured in their own cars, while others were quoting me sixteen hundred to two and a half thousand euro, quinnes insured for under a thousand euro, for that i am thankful,
    i am also thankful that they are placing the plame where it belong, with the bank who wrecked the lot, now that the quinns have been destroyed, jobs lost through all of this,
    i do hope the bank take the blame for the lot.


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    #172
    an offshore entity
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭an offshore entity


    Wudyaquit wrote: »
    Just about hte standard level of critical analysis generally put forward on this case

    Hear Hear!


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    #173
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    The Quinn Family had all this. All this.



    Unbelievable when you think about it. And the actions of one man and a dodgy bank destroyed the whole lot. The only people I feel sad for are the families in the border counties who are suffering because of the reckless actions of Sean Quinn and Anglo Irish Bank.


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    #174
    afterburn1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭afterburn1


    Quinn was never popular with the powers that be in this country. There are age old allegiances between politicians and companies in the state that he dared take on. Cement roadstone for example (a company that was an amalgamation of the stated owned Irish cement and the Roches brothers roadstone) or the state owned vhi. Without Quinn insuring a car was nigh on impossible for the youngsters of this country and as for the bull**** about the company not having enough funds to pay out claims. What chance ever of every policy having to make a claim simultaneously? And not forgetting the great unions of our country.:o
    The Quinn family borrowed nothing from the taxpayers of this country. Themselves and Anglo should have been left to slug it out in the courts.


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    #175
    daenerysstormborn3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭daenerysstormborn3


    At the time the money was not borrowed from the taxpayers but now that taxpayers own that bank it is owed to us. Irrelevant of your support of this man, do you not realise that if he does pay back this money that we will have to?

    I don't buy that someone of his alleged "business acumen" was talked into taking all that money by the big bad bankers.

    And now he and his family are continuing to break the law. Yeah, my heart bleeds for him :rolleyes:


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    #176
    M three
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭M three


    pixiebean22 wrote: »
    At the time the money was not borrowed from the taxpayers but now that taxpayers own that bank it is owed to us. Irrelevant of your support of this man, do you not realise that if he does pay back this money that we will have to?

    I don't buy that someone of his alleged "business acumen" was talked into taking all that money by the big bad bankers.

    And now he and his family are continuing to break the law. Yeah, my heart bleeds for him :rolleyes:

    I hear this a lot on this thread, the taxpayer owns Anglo now, so we must go after quinn for everything. Do you know the government has pumped 63 billion into banks? People are taking the get quinn line from the likes of the irish independant and getting very vocal about it. And completely forgetting about the vastly bigger, more important picture.

    Quinn would have repaid his debts completely. But instead the asset strippers got to work, to the ultimate benefit of foreign companies


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    #177
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    M three wrote: »
    But instead the asset strippers got to work, to the ultimate benefit of foreign companies

    I saw asset strippers alright............ but these ones were negotiating with the Eastern European mob.


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    #178
    M three
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭M three


    mikom wrote: »
    I saw asset strippers alright............ but these ones were negotiating with the Eastern European mob.

    I should have guessed you'd be a daily mail fan.


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    #179
    hardCopy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    bubblypop wrote: »
    its not sean quinns fault that the government bailed out the banks.

    yea he got a bit greedy, but he was sold on the investment by conmen.

    and now all he is doing is trying to salvage as much as he can for his family.
    nothing that any of the rest of us wouldnt do. be honest.

    never extravagant, now he is getting held up as this terrible person. he isnt, no-one would have jobs in the north west if it wasnt for him. believe me.

    Owning a helicopter = extravagant


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    #180
    M three
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭M three


    stepbar wrote: »
    The Quinn Family had all this. All this.



    Unbelievable when you think about it. And the actions of one man and a dodgy bank destroyed the whole lot. The only people I feel sad for are the families in the border counties who are suffering because of the reckless actions of Sean Quinn and Anglo Irish Bank.

    This idea that he only generated jobs for people in border counties is wide of the mark, he employed thousands of people from all over Ireland, England and further afield.
    The border counties line comes in handy when anyone dare question anglo's, the government or elderfields motives. Oh its those parochial, border county luddites again.
    Those opinion pieces in the media are really having the desired effect


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    #181
    M three
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭M three


    hardCopy wrote: »
    Owning a helicopter = extravagant

    Remember to say that if you get stranded someplace and you get rescued by one.
    Owning a helicopter does not automatically equal extravagance.

    However pointing out that someone who does own one is extravagant may be evidence of begrudgery, something thats never in short supply in ireland


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