Phone with UPC

Walter Sobchak III

Mods feels free to move where ever is appropriate. We Live in Lucan, Co. Dublin. We have TV & Broadband with UPC, which is so far a very good service. Sales lady was on the other day trying to sign us up to add the phone service to our package, which on the face of it seems quiet good. I was just wondering is there anybody out there with views as regard service, quality and ease of use. Or are there any drawbacks by moving away from Eircom ?

Johnboy1951

All I can say is that if I had a cable broadband connection I would not be paying for a landline.

I most likely would not use the UPC phone service, but one of the other providers of VOIP services.
That is not a comment on the service provided by UPC, but more on my wish to decouple broadband and phone services.

Outkast_IRE

I use the service, i find it spot on, im in cork , and there has only been one outage in the last year.

So i would be happy to reccomend it , and say its worth adding to your package.

Mr. G

I'm with johnboy on this, if I had a cable service I would go with another provider. You just have more flexibility and call features in future if you need them. Its easier to add phones ettc

housetypeb

Walter Sobchak III wrote: »

Or are there any drawbacks by moving away from Eircom ?

No drawbacks as far as I'm concerned.
What you're now paying Eircom every month just for line rental alone would more than cover the cost of a plan with a VOIP provider.
And you can transfer(port) your Eircom number to some providers if you want to continue using it.
I pay 8.25 euros every month now for a talk plan that gives me 300 minutes of free calls to land lines in Ireland and the USA and 18 other countries.
for mobiles I use a pay as you go plan with the same provider that I top up by 5-10 euros every couple of months.
Best thing I ever did was getting rid of Eircom and their outrageous standing charge.

Mr. G

housetypeb wrote: »

I pay 8.25 euros every month now for a talk plan that gives me 300 minutes of free calls to land lines in Ireland and the USA and 18 other countries.

Can I ask who are you with for that?

If you have a monitored alarm system like Eircom Phonewatch than you may need to keep your landline. Using the mobile network is not secure and not an option and radio is expensive but an option. In this case, I would keep the landline and just do what Johnboy does.

I suggest you go with an irish provider for emergency calls (112/999). The likes of Skype or Sipgate can't connect you to the EACS.

Solair

UPC's phone service is VoIP-based, but it's not internet VoIP, i.e. the traffic is only traveling over their closed network. This means it has complete control of QoS and call quality is always perfect.

It's VoIP in the same way that an office phone system is VoIP.

The use normal carrier-grade switches (exchanges) which, as far as I am aware, are Nortel DMS-100.

In terms of ease of use:

Calls complete exactly like they do on an eircom line. When you hit the last digit, the phone rings. No weird codes, no delays, nothing unusual.

Services:

Same as eircom (with different activation codes):
Call Waiting
Call Forwarding
Voicemail
Caller ID

Extras that eircom doesn't do:
Caller ID on call waiting (any compatible handset works with this, including most eircom-branded cordless phones). Very handy as when you get a call waiting beep, you know who it is.

Anonymous caller rejection service. This will automatically play out a message to anyone calling who has their number blocked. "The person you are calling does not wish to receive calls from blocked numbers. Please display your number and call again"

The physical interface is a standard RJ11 socket, the same as an eircom jack. There's no need for special phones or anything like that. It's basically an analogue service.

If you want to use it on your own house extension wiring, just ensure the eircom line is physically disconnected where it enters the wiring in your house. This is EXTEMELY important.

Once that's done, you can plug the UPC box with a standard phone wire into any extension socket in your house and you'll have a dial tone at all sockets.

One minor issue: Pulse-dial phones do not work. So, if you've an ancient phone / dial phone you wish to use with the service, you can't use it directly with this service.

VoIP phones : It's an analogue PSTN service, so you can't use your own VoIP phones with it.

housetypeb

Mr grumpy
I'm with Blueface.ie, took their freedom basic plan for 99euro/year which works out at 8.25/Month.

dingding

Solair,

Would you have the codes to activate the features you mention.

Cheers

Solair

dingding wrote: »

Solair,

Would you have the codes to activate the features you mention.

Cheers

They're all in the user guide online.

http://support.upc.ie/app/answers/detail/a_id/283/p/3%2C60

Mr. G

UPC's phone service is VoIP-based, but it's not internet VoIP, i.e. the traffic is only traveling over their closed network. This means it has complete control of QoS and call quality is always perfect.

True, but most routers allow for QoS to be setup so you can allow the phone to have priority. Once QoS is setup and you have a decent connection (e.g. UPC) you should have no call quality issues.

Calls complete exactly like they do on an eircom line. When you hit the last digit, the phone rings. No weird codes, no delays, nothing unusual.

You can setup a dial plan with your IP Phone or ATA. There is a good article about it below.
http://forums.blueface.ie/showthread.php?t=82

The physical interface is a standard RJ11 socket, the same as an eircom jack. There's no need for special phones or anything like that. It's basically an analogue service.

If you want to use it on your own house extension wiring, just ensure the eircom line is physically disconnected where it enters the wiring in your house. This is EXTEMELY important.

Once that's done, you can plug the UPC box with a standard phone wire into any extension socket in your house and you'll have a dial tone at all sockets.

Yes, just make sure that the eircom wires are all disconnected.

One minor issue: Pulse-dial phones do not work. So, if you've an ancient phone / dial phone you wish to use with the service, you can't use it directly with this service.

You make a very valid point. Most ordinary phones are not pulse though.

VoIP phones : It's an analogue PSTN service, so you can't use your own VoIP phones with it.

UPC provide a phone service via their cable service. In this case, it is Voice over IP, where the modem connects the analogue jack to the UPC phone network over the internet connection, like an ATA. However for external calls, the Public Service Telephone Network is connected to UPC's network, but the phone is not connected directly to the PSTN like an ordinary phone. The way in which your calls are carried internally (e.g. other UPC customers, UPC customer support etc.) is through their own network, and doesn't go through the PSTN. The UPC phone service is VOIP, but you don't have the flexibility of the likes of Blueface etc.

Johnboy1951

I have never had the opportunity to use UPC unfortunately
but it appears from what is written that UPC does not allow connections to other VOIP users ..... in other words someone with a UPC phone could not connect to me at

sip:johnboy1951@some_service_provider

That to me is a serious failing for a modern communications set up ...... unless I am misinterpreting the info .......

To explain ..... presently I can set up a dial plan which can determine which VOIP provider to use for lowest charge for a call to a mobile or PSTN endpoint, because I can register several VOIP accounts concurrently.
That dial plan can also contain 'quick dial' numbers ..... and I can use a SIP URI as the dialled 'number'.
So I can dial sip:someone@some_sip_provider direct from the phone.

It is this flexibility which I appreciate.
It allows me to converse with others worldwide, using SIP VOIP without using PSTN end points, while allowing the use of such end points if required.

(BTW, a recent update of Linphone for Android (and presumably other phones) allows multiple accounts to be registered, allowing use of VOIP over WIFI to PSTN or other SIP users. I add this as I recall making a comment on the single account limitation of mobile Linphone in another thread. )

Solair

Technically speaking all licensed landline providers form part of the PSTN.

So, UPC, Blueface and Smart are very much part of it.

UPC have several large fairly traditional switches handling their voice traffic and softswitches.

Whether voice service is delivered over analogue twisted pair POTS service (eircom and smart) , ISDN, cable platforms, internet VoIP over the internet etc its all part of the public, switched telephone network as long as customers are directly connected to it and it provides full direct access to the Irish numbering system and is fully interconnected to other aspects of the PSTN.

The PSTN doesn't mean eircom anymore and there are multiple ways of accessing it using other technologies and other companies.

If you make a call to a customer on your local eircom exchange to another customer in the same area, your call never leaves that switch either.

eircom and other traditional landline providers are also all deploying flavours of VoIP within their own closed networks to carry voice traffic across IP infrastructure.

UPC doesn't provide SIP internet VoIP service. It has never claimed to do that. It provides an analogue landline delivered using an unspecified, closed VoIP technology (most likely to be PacketCable) over their IP cable network. It's designed to replace your eircom landline. It's absolutely not an Internet VoIP service anymore than an eircom or smart line is.

For a public Internet VoIP service Blueface or some other provider would be your best options and they work very nicely over UPC broadband as it has direct connection to the INEX in Dublin so you'll get very short trips to Blueface.

at present, you can't call UPC lines other than on the PSTN, they've no public SIP addresses anymore so that an eircom line has.

It's VoIP, but not in the open, public Internet sense.

QoS for voice is totally managed in cable network and the voice traffic is only going to a server (usually in your local "Head end" in your area) from there its handled by voice switches / soft switches and connected into the rest of the PSTN.

In UPC's case they own Nortel DMS class 5 circuit switches which have been around for quite a while.

Nortel DMS switches are modern traditional telephone company gear, much like the Ericsson AXE and Alcatel stuff eircom use.

Similar Nortel DMS switches are used by BT Ireland and also O2.

so, basically they're a fully fledged traditional PSTN setup.

matt-dublin

if you really wanted you could also install a sip phone onto the data side of them modem and it is supported. I personally however prefer their PSTN offering and especially where if i needed to call emergency services and i was unable to speak. they should be able to track the call whereas with your SIP provider you could be calling from anywhere.

Solair

matt-dublin wrote: »

if you really wanted you could also install a sip phone onto the data side of them modem and it is supported. I personally however prefer their PSTN offering and especially where if i needed to call emergency services and i was unable to speak. they should be able to track the call whereas with your SIP provider you could be calling from anywhere.

You can just use a voip phone or ATA and an Internet VoIP service like Blueface etc

I'd definitely compare UPC's service to a regular landline, and not to a hosted VoIP service on the Internet.

It's designed to replace your eircom landline not to compete with Blueface type hosted pbx systems.

Mr. G

You can get your voip ata to work like a landline. You can have the dial plans setup so it rings like a landline and you can setup tones as well to make it sound like a landline.

This will do the same as the upc service.

With regard to sms which is the only difference from eircom to any ip based system:

The only companies that have a sms service is Eircom and Vodafone.

Sms has been shown to be very unreliable via VoIP, this is because voice is compressed into data and transmitted through the pstn to the destination.

I know that there is work in progress to build an ata to work with a different method of signalling to get sms to work reliably, with alarm monitoring and emergencies in mind. Usually sms text is send successfully but is received all jumbled.

-add-
UPC is based through VOIP. You have no control over your hardware. Voip services work in the same technical way, just means you get more control than upc or a landline.

You can get a voip service to sound and feel like a land line. The only difference is that's its over the internet.

Many are spectacle about moving to an internet phone service, but the reality is that Voip will be the future. I know that a lot of businesses and schools have already moved. It allows you to transfer to outbound numbers when your on a conversation for example.

Once you have a decent broadband connection, there's nothing to worry about. You can have it prepay also so your always in budget.

Many use the likes of skype for chatting to friends/family. This is voip.

Solair

One major difference with UPCs phone service is that it's a private IP network and voice traffic is QoS managed all the way back to the switch. In contrast, Internet VoIP is carried over the public Internet and can suffer should a route become congested as there is no QoS beyond your own home network.

That being said, it usually works fine if you've a decent Internet connection and ISP.

As for eircom SMS service this is a supplementary service hacked onto the PSTN. There is no ability to handle SMS in the PSTN network itself.

A server was setup which has banks of slow modems. When a SMS comes in, the server makes a phone call to your house. Your phone recognises the caller ID is the SMS server ringing and instantly answers. (most cordless phones suppress the first ring to avoid you hearing a blast of ringing everytime you get a text) The server then transmits the SMS data as a burst of very slow modem sounds.

When you send a landline SMS your phone dials a specific number, the server picks up the phone and identifies your Caller ID. Your phone sends the message as analog modem signals. Billing is achieved by eircom charging you for calling an SMS centre number. As far as the phone network is concerned its a voice call to a special rate number.

When you setup the SMS service, you send a text to the server from your landline. This means that your phone number is in its database as having an SMS compatible phone plugged in. If you don't do that, it will ring you and read the message out using text to speech synthesis software instead.

There's nothing to stop UPC or a private third party alarm company or whatever setting up a similar service using premium rate numbers for billing eg 10cent per call. They'd just need an analogue PSTN sms centre, a 1520 number and agreements with the mobile phone companies to interconnect SMS traffic.

It would work over any Irish landline or landline replacement VoIP service.

Eircom could also abandon their SMS facility at any time too if it's unprofitable. I doubt many people use it other than alarms. It isn't something I would rely on in the long term for monitoring.

zg3409

I use a Siemens SIP cordless phone that can also take a landline . http://voip.about.com/od/hardware/gr/SGC450IPReview.htm

I have also experimented with SIP ATA adapters and ethernet business phones.

Regarding the question of switching from Eircom to UPC phone there is a number of issues.

1) During the switchover period you may have no phone service or a phone service but with a temporary number (this may last a few days to a couple of weeks)

2) UPC phone is very dependant on the quality of internet connection their modem gets, so if your signal is a bit dodgy the phone will be dodgy. This is not much of an issue in newly upgraded areas with new cables but will become more of an issue over time. It can be difficult to tell if your phone is working correctly without trying to make test calls all the time.

3) UPC call costs are not massively cheap, at least when compated to Eircom and how cheap SIP providers are

4) Depending on what package you are on adding a UPC phone line can be nothing extra per month or more.

Personally if you have UPC for other services and the phone costs you nothing extra per month I would get the service.

However there are wiring issues connecting up phone wires as already mentioned.

Also mentioned is to save real money on call you need a SIP provider. Depending on what countries and phone types you call will determine which provider is best value.

By combining a UPC phoneline and an internet SIP line in the one cordless phone you can get the best of both worlds. For incoming calls and 999 you can use the UPC line. For cheap international calls you can use SIP providers. If using SIP it is important to have UPC phone or access to an Irish SIP provider as many international providers do not give access to 1890 number etc.

Depending on how much you call the savings can add up.