Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

DoesNotCompute

Ghandee wrote: »

I'm a PAYE employee.....

What will they audit?

Failure to pay the household charge + interest, for a start.

jmayo

I would like to know if the poll could be amended to show those who are against property taxes, but pro Croke Park Agreement, pro increments in public service, pro lumpsum payments for retiring public servants, anti social welfare cuts, etc ?

The money has to come from somewhere and if we don't cut the biggest spending areas we have to up taxes.
It is our current budget deficit.

We can't afford the risk of increasing the corporation tax, even though there are enough deluded left leaning types who think foreign corporations would not leave because thye love Ireland and the workforce are so well educated. :rolleyes:

Increasing VAT is counter productive.
Taxes on people working are going to increase anyway, they just won't label it as income tax but find some phraseology like a levy to bring it in.

BTW we wouln't have this bloody problem with taxing private homes, if that fianna fail gobsh***e lynch had not bought a general election by promising and going ahead with the removal of residential rates.

Ghandee

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Failure to pay the household charge + interest, for a start.

€150. (if not paid thIs year)

Audit away Brendan (I'm exempt from the HHC) prob get me via the tax though .:cool:

Ghandee

Re-reg?

biko

Report posts instead of derailing thread. Thank you

tayto lover

makim wrote: »

They will get you when you sell the property or leave it in a will.
The challenges to it remain to be seen.
They would have a nice interest charge if successful.

Hello Ali.

bgrizzley

all these new pro hhc accounts smack of desperation.
As does using the Revenue commisioners to collect this tiny tax and saying "that was our plan all along"
troll harder Phil.......

Ghandee

Has any of the govt made any statement ref to the revenue collecting yet?

I very much doubt it'll be deducted at source, scare mongering to get folk to register and avoid 'penalties' ...

Stand firm though, Phil Hogan made a statement today in Donegal along the line of the revenue collecting was always the plan, once the database was completed.

I don't think the database is much more than 50% completed though, he's still waiting on 800,000 to register though (conservative guess)

The Minister urged the 52 per cent of people in the county who had not paid the charge to date to pay it. Mr Hogan said if they did not, the local council and its management would have "no option" but to reduce essential services by the end of the year.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0725/breaking43.html

When half the people of a county don't agree with an unjust tax Phil, its time to give up on it. The public have spoken, they can't chase us all!

kr7

Certain posters keep claiming that this unjust charge / tax has to be implemented because it's in the MOU we supposedly have with the troika, yet the government keeps on saying they have to renegotiate the terms of same MOU.

This is one tax / charge too many, it's time the government sat down with the troika and told them that the Irish people won't have it.

Ghandee

kr7 wrote: »

Certain posters keep claiming that this unjust charge / tax has to be implemented because it's in the MOU we supposedly have with the troika, yet the government keeps on saying they have to renegotiate the terms of same MOU.

This is one tax / charge too many, it's time the government sat down with the troika and told them that the Irish people won't have it.

Phil should've resigned after 'finglegate' todays slip up is further proof the man should be kept away from ordinary members of society.

Gobshíte.

kr7

At least a more realistic figure for the amount of people that paid is out there ( although I doubt that that's even right) at 48%.

That's 768,000 supposedly have paid and 832,000 who haven't.

A bit different to what the shills have been telling us here.

Cookie_Monster

Ghandee wrote: »

So Cookie, how would you feel paying 2k nzd (€1295 or so) while getting no services like you listed above?

bins are due to be chargeable soon here too, thankfully we won't have to pay for water any time soon though. All the services you get from the county/city council will be part funded by this tax, everything from local roads to libraries to dog wardens and litter bins.

Yes it works out a little more expensive than our proposed property tax, but of the authorities reduced it so it matched our 1000, with the agreement you'd pay privately for your bins (up to 600 a year) then meter your water, place a tax on your car as high as ours are, then toll the roads afterwards, then up your prsi payments per year,b yet they hardly cover you for one, single, miserable dental check up........ Would you see it as good value for money?

Currently no, but if (and its a big if) the rest of the tax system is reformed to allow for this income stream it should work out, VAT could fall slightly and PAYE could be rebalanced. It won't, because it's Ireland, but it should be tax neutral overall.
I fully support the idea of property taxes regardless. They make sense, are far more stable tax base than the likes of PAYE or VAT.

Also, I've never been to NZ, but I have lived in Australia for a few years. Do you guys have a yearly car tax? (can't rem exactly what it was 'reggo' got me over there, but I think it was the equivalent of.our nct, but once that was up to date, no car tax, no insurance for the year needed either and way cheaper petrol then Ireland)

reggo = yearly tax. 280 NZD on a 3.5L
WOF = NCT, twice yearly, 40 nzd a go
petrol 2.07 = 1.35 eur
deisel 1.50 = 0.97 eur plus 500 NZD for ever 10,00km the vehicle is driven

What tax rates do you pay on fuel? Alcohol?.ciggies?

Fuel is 2.07 NZD, I think around 60c is excise and 25-30 GST, beer is about the same rates as Irl, smokes are 20 a packet or 12.50 eur, about the same rates as irl too. Major push to up the tax on them though

How much is a doctors appointment? Any prescriptions that may need to be bought?

35nzd, prescription are for nothing; 90% of cost covered by the system.

This all needs factored in too.

true
The overall tax burden in NZ is lower than Irl but then again NZ didn't lose the run of itself and is not hamstrung with a joint currency and still actually controls its rates and currency which is a massive plus for it.

Am Chile

Ghandee wrote: »

Has any of the govt made any statement ref to the revenue collecting yet?

I very much doubt it'll be deducted at source, scare mongering to get folk to register and avoid 'penalties' ...

Stand firm though, Phil Hogan made a statement today in Donegal along the line of the revenue collecting was always the plan, once the database was completed.

I don't think the database is much more than 48% completed though, he's still waiting on 800,000 to register though (conservative guess)

But also most importantly, anyone out there yet to pay..

You are in the majority.....

Phil says so himself



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0725/breaking43.html

When half the people of a country don't agree with an unjust tax Phil, its time to give up on it. The public have spoken, they can't chase us all!

Chances are it will be deducted at source-if one tries to calculate their next move with the revenue set to collect it will be at source I reckon-reasons I calculate it as their move to collect it- if its deducted at source there won't any need to folllow up non payers with reminder letters/court cases etc-the question anti property tax campaigners need to ask ourselves whats our next move when its deducted at source ?

I personally will gather as many workmates as I can to see the union rep to approach the employer to ask not to deduct any property tax from peoples wages at the company I work with-I would even be prepared to go on strike over property tax being taken from my wages-and Im sure there's other in the country who feel the same way. how many on here opposed to property taxes would be ready to engage in Industrial action over the money being deducted at source ?

kr7

If you buy a new car over there in NZ, is there VRT on it and at what rate if there is?

dvpower

kr7 wrote: »

At least a more realistic figure for the amount of people that paid is out there ( although I doubt that that's even right) at 48%.

Its not - that's just the figure for Co. Donegal. They have one of the lower, if not the lowest, compliance rates in the country.

Ghandee

kr7 wrote: »

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

If you buy a new car over there, is there VRT on it and at what rate if there is?

I don't think so, insurance not compulsory either as all vehicles once reggo'd (like nct) come with automatic third party insurance by thee govt. (in Australia anyway)

Did you see the car Tax for a 3.5L?

Seems they're getting the overall better bargain all around....

jmayo

kr7 wrote: »

Certain posters keep claiming that this unjust charge / tax has to be implemented because it's in the MOU we supposedly have with the troika, yet the government keeps on saying they have to renegotiate the terms of same MOU.

This is one tax / charge too many, it's time the government sat down with the troika and told them that the Irish people won't have it.

Yeah just tell the troika that they should fund us and we demand to be allowed run a 20 billion deficit. :rolleyes:

Does anybody fooking realise that if we ran the budget of a company or a household in the way this country's budget has been run we would out of business or homeless.
Although in Ireland we have moratoriums on kicking people out of the houses they refuse to pay for.
Note I said "refuse".

And yes I know states usually always run a deficit but i am hoping someone gets the point.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

bins are due to be chargeable soon here too, thankfully we won't have to pay for water any time soon though. All the services you get from the county/city council will be part funded by this tax, everything from local roads to libraries to dog wardens and litter bins.


Currently no, but if (and its a big if) the rest of the tax system is reformed to allow for this income stream it should work out, VAT could fall slightly and PAYE could be rebalanced. It won't, because it's Ireland, but it should be tax neutral overall.
I fully support the idea of property taxes regardless. They make sense, are far more stable tax base than the likes of PAYE or VAT.

reggo = yearly tax. 280 NZD on a 3.5L
WOF = NCT, twice yearly, 40 nzd a go
petrol 2.07 = 1.35 eur
deisel 1.50 = 0.97 eur plus 500 NZD for ever 10,00km the vehicle is driven


Fuel is 2.07 NZD, I think around 60c is excise and 25-30 GST, beer is about the same rates as Irl, smokes are 20 a packet or 12.50 eur, about the same rates as irl too. Major push to up the tax on them though

35nzd, prescription are for nothing; 90% of cost covered by the system.

true
The overall tax burden in NZ is lower than Irl but then again NZ didn't lose the run of itself and is not hamstrung with a joint currency and still actually controls its rates and currency which is a massive plus for it.

If we are going to compare taxes and cost of living in NZ with Ireland lets look at their spending.

What are Social Welfare entitlements in NZ like ?
Do you get bonus payments for pets, religious rights of passage, etc ?

What are public sector wage rates like ?
Whta re public sector employment numbers like ?
AFAIK they definetly have less politicans and they are paid less.
So can we take it that the rest of the public service is similarly run ?

Do retiring public servants get tax free lump sum payments ?

Am Chile wrote: »

I personally will gather as many workmates as I can to see the union rep to approach the employer to ask not to deduct any property tax from peoples wages at the company I work with-I would even be prepared to go on strike over property tax being taken from my wages-and Im sure there's other in the country who feel the same way. how many on here opposed to property taxes would be ready to engage in Industrial action over the money being deducted at source ?

That will be nice.
Go on strike if your company comply with the revenue commissioners.

And people wonder why the fook a lot of foreign companies do not like unions. :rolleyes:

Ghandee

jmayo wrote: »

And people wonder why the fook a lot of foreign companies do not like unions. :rolleyes:

Hint,

Its because they have the workers best interests in mind, not the 'lads at the top'?:cool:

phil1nj

jmayo wrote: »

Does anybody fooking realise that if we ran the budget of a company or a household in the way this country's budget has been run we would out of business or homeless.

Comparing Ireland to a company is all good and well, but what sort of a company continually rewards it's "staff" or "board members" with continued pay increases and over inflated salaries/pensions/expenses whilst the company has to borrows massive amounts of money to keep trading? Short answer, no such company exists. Any viable business needs to cut its cloth according to it's means,certain countries/governments seem to be exempt from that rule of thumb though. Well as long as the taxpayer is there to pick up the shortfall.

kr7

jmayo wrote: »

Yeah just tell the troika that they should fund us and we demand to be allowed run a 20 billion deficit. :rolleyes:

Do you want to show me exactly where in my post I said we should do the above?

We don't have a €20 billion deficit.

:rolleyes:

BTW, I don't see the councils kicking tenants who refuse to pay their rent out of council houses.

Dublin city council.
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CGMQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnewspaper%2Fireland%2F2011%2F1228%2F1224309551172.html&ei=EzkRUNihDNKDhQf7-oDwBw&usg=AFQjCNEC3OcKv0j2GD8q8hjqxLHH9XGKdw&sig2=CST6xJmcDNWS5tFPTxTaJA

Once again the scroungers get off.

And they won't even be liable for the property tax when it comes in.

jmayo

Ghandee wrote: »

Hint,

Its because they have the workers best interests in mind, not the 'lads at the top'?:cool:

How true when you see examples of union riddled Irish organisations like the HSE where the best interests of the workers come first.
Shure who the fook gives a hoot about patients, taxpayers and anyone else.

Ehhh the once private sector Irish banks are heavily unionised and see how well most of those have looked after their top staff.

So much for not looking after the 'lads at the top'

BTW what about the lads at the top of the union ?


By christ it must be awful to work for the likes of the Dells, the Intels, the Googles, the Microsofts of this world since they have no unions AFAIK.

Ever wondered why Ryanair, one of Ireland's most successful companies against very stiff international competition, does so well ?
Ah but shure wouldn't we have been all better off if it was just good old Aer Lingus where the employees got the massive salaries and freebes and paying customers got to fork out a months wages to cross the Irish channel.

kr7 wrote: »

Do you want to show me exactly where in my post I said we should do the above?

Ehhh you said ...
" This is one tax / charge too many, it's time the government sat down with the troika and told them that the Irish people won't have it."

kr7 wrote: »

We don't have a €20 billion deficit.

Sorry it was 20, it of course has dropped a bit.
But it is still too damm high and needs to be cut.

If we do not cut the deficit by cuts and tax increases then we are basically telling those that currently fund us to continue to do so, which is back to my above point.

kr7 wrote: »

BTW, I don't see the councils kicking tenants who refuse to pay their rent out of council houses.

Dublin city council.
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CGMQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnewspaper%2Fireland%2F2011%2F1228%2F1224309551172.html&ei=EzkRUNihDNKDhQf7-oDwBw&usg=AFQjCNEC3OcKv0j2GD8q8hjqxLHH9XGKdw&sig2=CST6xJmcDNWS5tFPTxTaJA

Once again the scroungers get off.

That is another argument and has to do with our lax over generous social welfare state.
If that and the overly generous public sector employee benefits were slashed and more like other countries then we might not be on here complaining about tax hikes.

kr7 wrote: »

And they won't even be liable for the property tax when it comes in.

Ehh the point of a property tax is that you need to be the beneficial owner of property to pay it.

Or do you expect non car owners to pay car tax ?

kr7

jmayo wrote: »

Or do you expect non car owners to pay car tax ?

Here we go again with the bull****e car tax argument.

How many times.....

Once more though.

If you own a motor vehicle you pay the motor tax directly for that vehicle.

If you don't own a vehicle and you use public transport (buses, taxi's etc.)you pay the motor tax indirectly for that vehicle as it is factored into the fare you pay.

It really is the most disingenuous argument I've heard so far.

BTW, regarding the property tax, I'll pay it when every household in the country is liable for it, not a moment sooner.

Ghandee

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/court-orders-fg-senators-husband-to-pay-plumber-3180642.html


Classy people.

kr7

Ghandee wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/court-orders-fg-senators-husband-to-pay-plumber-3180642.html


Classy people.

That's the type of people who were elected to run the country.

The auld FG'ers don't like paying for services do they.

At least the judge seen through them.

Hopefully a judge in Portugal will do the same.

Chucky the tree

The case was dimissed against her.

Judge McCabe dismissed the case against Senator Healy Eames as he said he was satisfied she wasn't intimately involved or even peripherally involved.

kr7

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The case was dimissed against her.

Sure that's ok then.:rolleyes:

Surely she has a 'beneficial interest', to coin a phrase used by pro-taxers, in the property....

bgrizzley

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The case was dimissed against her.

Quote:
Judge McCabe dismissed the case against Senator Healy Eames as he said he was satisfied she wasn't intimately involved or even peripherally involved.

C'mon, she did screw the plumber...........

Ghandee

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The case was dimissed against her.

Your some craic....

Wonder if she reported the husband for paying cash, you know, not 'putting it through the books'.?

That's money that didn't make it into the coffers of which she receives her salary from.

:pac:

kr7

bgrizzley wrote: »

C'mon, she did screw the plumber...........

And the ticket inspector...........:eek:

dxhound2005

kr7 wrote: »

Here we go again with the bull****e car tax argument.

How many times.....

Once more though.

If you own a motor vehicle you pay the motor tax directly for that vehicle.

If you don't own a vehicle and you use public transport (buses, taxi's etc.)you pay the motor tax indirectly for that vehicle as it is factored into the fare you pay.

It really is the most disingenuous argument I've heard so far.

BTW, regarding the property tax, I'll pay it when every household in the country is liable for it, not a moment sooner.

These threads are full of this sort of stuff. "I will pay my taxes when..." "I won't pay that charge because..." etc. etc.

You don't get to stipulate the conditions under which you will obey particular laws. The best you can hope for is that enough people agree with your views to elect a set of politicians to enact laws the way you want them.