Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

darkhorse

Ghandee wrote: »

DX has yet to declare why this tax being collected is of such personal interest to him?

I have said why I am so opposed of it, but I dont think he has ever came straight out and said what his vested interest is in it being collected?

Would he care to tell us why? Is it just because its 'the law'?

Its strange, alright. Stranger still that when he's here, alastair aint and vicy versy.:):)

Chucky the tree

Ghandee wrote: »

A bit like your sense of reality Mr Average.

I hope you've finally grasped it this time. Third time lucky maybe.

kr7

darkhorse wrote: »

Its strange, alright. Stranger still that when he's here, alastair aint and vicy versy.:):)

Alastair is on a little holiday from after hours, so is makim funnily enough!!

Ghandee

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I hope you've finally grasped it this time. Third time lucky maybe.

You give me your definition of what average means Chucky, the real meaning, not the one mathematics and scienticans have been relying on for years though, as that one isnt right according to you.....


One more time so I can see if it will sink in?

dxhound2005

darkhorse wrote: »

You are correct on that one. As a matter of fact, I have a feeling that it will not just Donegal that will put in S.F.
You do know, by the way, that F.G. were totally against a tax on peoples homes, when they were in opposition. But thats only one thing that they changed opinions after they got elected. As a previous poster said, its really just an extension of F.F.

Sinn Fein are against property tax but only in the country where they are in opposition. In the country where they are in power they have no problem with property tax.

Chucky the tree

Ghandee wrote: »

You give me your definition of what average means Chucky, the real meaning, not the one mathematics and scienticans have been relying on for years though, as that one isnt right according to you.....

One more time so I can see if it will sink in?

I never said the definition was different. Again, another issue that has gone over your head.

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

One of the Donegal constituencies will be combined with a bit of Cavan. Maybe that will inject a bit of fiscal sense.

Well, you're sense of humor is coming through, anyway.:)

kr7

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Sinn Fein are against property tax but only in the country where they are in opposition. In the country where they are in power they have no problem with property tax.

They're not really 'in power' though, are they?

They're in a token government paid for by the mainland UK!

Elected civil servants divvying out the cash their given.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Sinn Fein are against property tax but only in the country where they are in opposition. In the country where they are in power they have no problem with property tax.

Rates, (where services are provided) are not property tax.

But aside from that, Sinn Fein are not the main party in the coalition govt in the north, and aside from that, even if they were, Stormont to not have a direct say in most of the taxation in the six counties. (have they matched the 26 counties Corporation tax yet?)

So apart from all these things DX, what you posted is completely true, and not trying to muddy the waters once again.

Ghandee

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I never said the definition was different. Again, another issue that has gone over your head.

I'm tired.

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

As far as I know we are the only country to abolish an existing property tax, Fianna Fail in 1977 and it did buy Jack Lynch the election that year. Up till then domestic rates supplied about 66% of local government spending.

Things have been problematical on that front since. Income tax mostly had to make up for that missing revenue stream, covered up by extra stamp duty for some years now almost completely gone as well. I don't think any incoming government would be stupid enough to do away with that revenue stream again.

didnt those cowboys abolish another in 1997? do you not think that when thoughts of getting back in come around, that saying they will do it again for 800k people plus the hundreds of thousands who have paid under duress might swing them in. (i'm sure i dont have to tell you not to pay much heed to what they say now)
of course FG wont care by then, they will have their gold plated pensions and their croneys installed in well paying jobs.

darkhorse

kr7 wrote: »

They're not really 'in power' though, are they?

They're in a token government paid for by the mainland UK!

Elected civil servants divvying out the cash their given.

Once again, kr7, ya took the words right outa my mouth.:)

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

Rates, (where services are provided) are not property tax.

But aside from that, Sinn Fein are not the main party in the coalition govt in the north, and aside from that, even if they were, Stormont to not have a direct say in most of the taxation in the six counties. (have they matched the 26 counties Corporation tax yet?)

So apart from all these things DX, what you posted is completely true, and not trying to muddy the waters once again.

I look forward to Pearse Doherty, Minister for Finance in 2016 in the Sinn Fein - Fianna Fail coalition government rationalising their decision to retain the property tax saying it's really just like the one in the North.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I look forward to Pearse Doherty, Minister for Finance in 2016 in the Sinn Fein - Fianna Fail coalition government rationalising their decision to retain the property tax saying it's really just like the one in the North.

So by not even attempting to defend your ususal 'Careless truths' I, and the fifteen other thousand odd reading these threads can assume that once again you've been caught out telling lies.

Most prob to suit your own agenda, whatever that may be.

I'll ask you again so.

DX, why is it you so vehemetly wish to see this tax put in place and succeed?

Honest answer please, this thread exists to debate, I'm genuinely interested in your answer.

darkhorse

As Ghandee said, S.F. are the junior partner in the coalition up north. But, apart from that, the U.K. parliament have all the power on the fiscal and funding side.
By the way, kr, have ya noticed everyone folleed ya over into this room.:):)

Am Chile

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I look forward to Pearse Doherty, Minister for Finance in 2016 in the Sinn Fein - Fianna Fail coalition government rationalising their decision to retain the property tax saying it's really just like the one in the North.

Ah the argument Northern Ireland has property taxes once again-

what you failed to mention is they actually get proper services for their property taxes-unlike here we pay for our bin collection privately-we are asked to pay for the call out for fire brigade if its needed-and soon we will be asked to pay for water charges separately -I have often heard fine gael representatives go on about property taxes in the north-what they always fail to mention is the actual services they receive for their property taxes which as follows

-

( •education
•emergency services
•health
•housing
•roads

•water and sewerage

•arts, events and recreation
•building control
•community centres
•environmental health
•leisure facilities
•tourism
•waste management)


Bottom line if you re gonna attempt to compare the household/property tax here with Northern Ireland at least be honest enough to tell people about the actual services people receive in Northern Ireland-by not telling people its quite misleading .

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/property-and-housing/rates/your-rate-bill/what-do-rates-pay-for.htm

Funnyonion79

Haven't read all the replies so maybe this has already been said but I think that all this talk of the property tax being €1000 is just political kite flying so that when they bring it in at €300 for the average 3 bed semi, everyone will breathe a sigh of relief and go "ah well, at least it's not €1000" and pay it thinking they're getting a good deal. The polititians are all on summer holidays now so the media need something to fill their pages....

By the way, I haven't paid the household charge, am not planning to and have no intentions of paying the property tax either, when it comes into force.

My fear with the property tax however, is that they will make the interest and penalties for late payment much much higher than the current penalties in place for late payment of the household charge (more like the NPPR interest and penalties) and this will force a lot of people to pay it as they will be afraid of racking up mountains of debt by continuing to not pay.

We shall have to wait and see until the budget comes out in December, but watch out between now and then for all the bull**** scaremongering rumours that will do the rounds about the property tax.

Ps Ghandee, I'm a big fan. I don't think I've ever read a post of yours that I didn't agree wholeheartedly with.

*blushes and hides face*

Am Chile

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

Haven't read all the replies so maybe this has already been said but I think that all this talk of the property tax being €1000 is just political kite flying so that when they bring it in at €300 for the average 3 bed semi, everyone will breathe a sigh of relief and go "ah well, at least it's not €1000" and pay it thinking they're getting a good deal. The polititians are all on summer holidays now so the media need something to fill their pages....

By the way, I haven't paid the household charge, am not planning to and have no intentions of paying the property tax either, when it comes into force.

My fear with the property tax however, is that they will make the interest and penalties for late payment much much higher than the current penalties in place for late payment of the household charge (more like the NPPR interest and penalties) and this will force a lot of people to pay it as they will be afraid of racking up mountains of debt by continuing to not pay.

We shall have to wait and see until the budget comes out in December, but watch out between now and then for all the bull**** scaremongering rumours that will do the rounds about the property tax.

Ps Ghandee, I'm a big fan. I don't think I've ever read a post of yours that I didn't agree wholeheartedly with.

*blushes and hides face*

If there is higher Interest late charges-it all depends how long a property tax charge can remain against a property-with the current household tax it can only remain a charge on the property for 12 years-there will be a limitation as to how long the property tax can a remain a charge on a property.

kr7

darkhorse wrote: »

As Ghandee said, S.F. are the junior partner in the coalition up north. But, apart from that, the U.K. parliament have all the power on the fiscal and funding side.
By the way, kr, have ya noticed everyone folleed ya over into this room.:):)

Maybe this is where the good people are at, well mostly good people....

dxhound2005

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

Haven't read all the replies so maybe this has already been said but I think that all this talk of the property tax being €1000 is just political kite flying so that when they bring it in at €300 for the average 3 bed semi, everyone will breathe a sigh of relief and go "ah well, at least it's not €1000" and pay it thinking they're getting a good deal. The polititians are all on summer holidays now so the media need something to fill their pages....

By the way, I haven't paid the household charge, am not planning to and have no intentions of paying the property tax either, when it comes into force.

My fear with the property tax however, is that they will make the interest and penalties for late payment much much higher than the current penalties in place for late payment of the household charge (more like the NPPR interest and penalties) and this will force a lot of people to pay it as they will be afraid of racking up mountains of debt by continuing to not pay.

We shall have to wait and see until the budget comes out in December, but watch out between now and then for all the bull**** scaremongering rumours that will do the rounds about the property tax.

Ps Ghandee, I'm a big fan. I don't think I've ever read a post of yours that I didn't agree wholeheartedly with.

*blushes and hides face*

Ghandee's house is exempt from the Household Charge. Or at least that's what he said before. It is easy for people not liable to pay and not running up arrears on the title of their house to tell others to break the law.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Ghandee's house is exempt from the Household Charge. Or at least that's what he said before. It is easy for people not liable to pay and not running up arrears on the title of their house to tell others to break the law.

Sigh..... Once again. I'm exempt from the hhc thus year.
I won't be exempt from any property tax however.

Just another misleading story on your behalf.

Ghandee wrote: »

So by not even attempting to defend your ususal 'Careless truths' I, and the fifteen other thousand odd reading these threads can assume that once again you've been caught out telling lies.

Most prob to suit your own agenda, whatever that may be.

I'll ask you again so.

DX, why is it you so vehemetly wish to see this tax put in place and succeed?

Honest answer please, this thread exists to debate, I'm genuinely interested in your answer.

Grow a pair and answer the question DX, please.

kr7

Anyone remember when the bin charges came in around Dublin.
We were told it was only €2 a lift if I remember correctly.
In Fingal it's now €8.75 a lift a few short years later.

Same thing will happen with this tax, It might start off at €200 or €300 but in 5 or 10 years it'll be 7 or 8 times that.

Mark my words.

It needs to be stopped in it's tracks.

Funnyonion79

Am Chile wrote: »

If there is higher Interest late charges-it all depends how long a property tax charge can remain against a property-with the current household tax it can only remain a charge on the property for 12 years-there will be a limitation as to how long the property tax can a remain a charge on a property.

Yes but the threat alone, of huge interest charges which accumulate, the longer you don't pay, will scare most ordinary people into paying up. Look at the huge numbers that registered last minute for the HHC in the last few days - they couldn't hold their nerve for 3 months, never mind 12 years!

I hope it doesn't happen because I'm completely against the property tax and want to see it fail in a big way. Hopefully this property tax, coupled with the water charges are what's needed to finally force the Irish people to make a stand once and for all and say to the government, enough is enough!

kr7

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Ghandee's house is exempt from the Household Charge. Or at least that's what he said before. It is easy for people not liable to pay and not running up arrears on the title of their house to tell others to break the law.

Or maybe he's a man of principles.

Remember them?

Let the powers that be go back to the troika and tell them that the people won't have it, end of story.

Tell you one thing, if they tried to bring in a proper 'council tax' that all households would be liable for you'd see then the real amount of people who wouldn't pay.

There would be riots on the streets.

Ghandee

[QUOTE=Funnyonion79;79935121]Yes but the threat alone, of huge interest charges which accumulate, the longer you don't pay, will scare most ordinary people into paying up. ![/QUOTE]

But what folk need to understand is, this threat can only hang over you while this Govt hold power.

Pretty soon it will be some other parties to turn to give it a go, and maybe get a party that will stick to the feckin promises made before the election.
A promise to' abolish the property tax, and disolve all penalties accumulated' is a certainty about to happen!

K-9

kr7 wrote: »

They're not really 'in power' though, are they?

They're in a token government paid for by the mainland UK!

Elected civil servants divvying out the cash their given.

It's hardly a token Governemnt in fairness, SF have made a lot of moves to get into a token Government if that is the case.

It's a coalition Government which means making compromises and not delivering on some pledges.

K-9

bgrizzley wrote: »

didnt those cowboys abolish another in 1997? do you not think that when thoughts of getting back in come around, that saying they will do it again for 800k people plus the hundreds of thousands who have paid under duress might swing them in. (i'm sure i dont have to tell you not to pay much heed to what they say now)
of course FG wont care by then, they will have their gold plated pensions and their croneys installed in well paying jobs.

FG abolished the property tax in 1997, hence the quotes about an unfair property tax from Kenny et al.

Ghandee

K-9 wrote: »

It's hardly a token Governemnt in fairness, SF have made a lot of moves to get into a token Government if that is the case.

It's a coalition Government which means making compromises and not delivering on some pledges.

Agree 100%

But it is simply untrue that 'Sinn Fein support a propery tax in the North' as previously suggested by another poster on this thread, who is forever making misleading staements, to say the least.

I would like him to have the courtesy to at least acknowledge that fact.

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

So by not even attempting to defend your ususal 'Careless truths' I, and the fifteen other thousand odd reading these threads can assume that once again you've been caught out telling lies.

Most prob to suit your own agenda, whatever that may be.

I'll ask you again so.

DX, why is it you so vehemetly wish to see this tax put in place and succeed?

Honest answer please, this thread exists to debate, I'm genuinely interested in your answer.

This little discussion on the internet doesn't mean a thing in the real world. And the polls in the two Household Charge threads were very unrepresentative and the one here probably is too. That is the way on AH, the political poll made Sinn Fein the largest party in the country 10% ahead of Fine Gael. Very much out of step with all properly organised opinion polls since this government came into power and showing that if shills exist here their propenderance is on the CAHWT side.

It is no harm having a different opinion represented if only to try to save people from the nonsense that defying the law will make it go away. Call that an agenda if you wan't, I have no connection to any organisation. CAHWT would better off telling people to break the TV licence law. People would save themselves more this year and there would be no increasing penalties and interest being attached to the title of their houses.

Ghandee

Thank you.