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Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)
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Fair enough. I would agree with his point, it was a very unpopular tax.
FF introduced an unpopular property tax, Enda Kenny and FG opposed it, their manifesto and Enda quotes has been quoted on this thread.
I've no problem with you digging out evidence Kenny did say a property tax was unfair.
can't find evidence of the quote proving or disproving, read somewhere that SF dug it up, still priceless though.
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can't find evidence of the quote proving or disproving, read somewhere that SF dug it up, still priceless though.
Edited my post for bad wording. I would not be surprised Kenny was against the property tax, I'd bet on it.
Joe Higgins wasn't slow in canvassing 2 car households in his bye election for the 1997 bye election, in the Castleknock area over bin charges. Middle class couples buying bin labels was a very important issue to Joe then.
Joe knows how to use the Bourgeois classes.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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Here we go again with the bull****e car tax argument.
How many times.....
Once more though.
If you own a motor vehicle you pay the motor tax directly for that vehicle.
If you don't own a vehicle and you use public transport (buses, taxi's etc.)you pay the motor tax indirectly for that vehicle as it is factored into the fare you pay.
.
Ahhhh.
Using your argument I pay somebody elses income tax because it is factored into the charge I pay as a customer somewhere. :rolleyes:BTW, regarding the property tax, I'll pay it when every household in the country is liable for it, not a moment sooner.
Ehh sunshine get it through your head that a property tax is a tax on property not a tax on households.
Thus if you don't own property you won't be liable.
So not every household in the country should be liable for a property tax.
And the households of all the little would be property magnates that sprung up during the bubble will be liable for many property taxes.
Think of it like this...
Since you didn't get my reference to car tax I will use another analogy.
If I don't own a dog I don't pay a dog license.
Using your mindset you would expect the kids next door who play with your dog to help pay for your dog license.
BTW using your argument above non property owners could be said to be indirectly paying it through rent to the owner of the property they are renting.
Of course the rental market will dictate whether landlords can just lump the tax onto tenants by upping the rents.
What we have at the moment is not really a true property tax and it being labelled as a household charge has mudded the waters.I am not allowed discuss …
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Ahhhh.
Using your argument I pay somebody elses income tax because it is factored into the charge I pay as a customer somewhere. :rolleyes:
Ehh sunshine get it through your head that a property tax is a tax on property not a tax on households.
Thus if you don't own property you won't be liable.
So not every household in the country should be liable for a property tax.
And the households of all the little would be property magnates that sprung up during the bubble will be liable for many property taxes.
Think of it like this...
Since you didn't get my reference to car tax I will use another analogy.
If I don't own a dog I don't pay a dog license.
Using your mindset you would expect the kids next door who play with your dog to help pay for your dog license.
BTW using your argument above non property owners could be said to be indirectly paying it through rent to the owner of the property they are renting.
Of course the rental market will dictate whether landlords can just lump the tax onto tenants by upping the rents.
What we have at the moment is not really a true property tax and it being labelled as a household charge has mudded the waters.
The property tax is 'Ring fenced' for local authority services.
Services that dog owners, car owners, budgie owners, la housing tenants, property owners ALL use.
If the dog license fee was ear marked to provide communal dog baths, watering stations and pooper scoopers on the street, yet we all had to pay to provide this service (dog owner or not) via a dog would that be fair?
You see the flaw in your argument?0 -
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Do you think every household should pay ?
No, only the households that avail of the 'services' this is collected for.Then how do you determine a rich household from a poor one, a household which actually owns the property and one which only has the use of it and will never benefit from the ownership of the asset ?
How did they determine between a rich household and a poor one with the HHC?Do people actually think that a property tax should be forced on people who don't fooking own any property ?
Doubt it, thats why I'd be in favour of domestic rates. (which provide services)And any true property tax is based on the value of the property, not a flat rate as we have with the household charge.
Its still a tax (ground rent) for owning your own home, a home thats been paid for/is being paid for, and which you already pay for all the services it receives, be it via directly to a service provider, (Thorntons/Oxygen, Emergency services, etc etc) and via USC, Income tax and VATBTW hosueholders will be caught for local services anyway when they are paying water rates and refuse charges, etc.
Exactly, someone finally gets it. Hence why I wont pay twice.I just don't understand how people can't fooking grasp the idea of what a property tax is.
Oh I grasp it alright, the govt want to place a tax on my property, to provide local services, many of which are non existent, the others I aleardy paid for both directly and indirectly (as you yourself say above ^^)Almost every other country has property taxes.
Are we sheep in Ireland?
Almost every other country in the worlld drive on the right hand side of the road, should we start switching to that too?
It was yet another example of fianna fail buying elections that resulted in us removing the last one that was applicable to residential property and like everything once something is given it is fooking impossible to take it back.
See medical cards for ALL over 70s as another example of buying elections.
Of course our governments decided that a tax on property transactions, stamp duty, was easier to implement that facing up to fact that there should be annual property taxes.
All of these things were ok with the FG party at one stage, Enda actually lobbied against it whenever he was in opposition FFS. Here's a bit of literature Enda printed off back in the day.
Remember, this was produced by the Fine Gael Party, not by anyone else.
http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2010/01/16/they-will-tax-the-roof-over-your-head-fine-gael-anti-property-tax-leaflet-1994/0 -
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Ahhhh.
Using your argument I pay somebody elses income tax because it is factored into the charge I pay as a customer somewhere. :rolleyes:
Ehh sunshine get it through your head that a property tax is a tax on property not a tax on households.
Thus if you don't own property you won't be liable.
So not every household in the country should be liable for a property tax.
And the households of all the little would be property magnates that sprung up during the bubble will be liable for many property taxes.
Think of it like this...
Since you didn't get my reference to car tax I will use another analogy.
If I don't own a dog I don't pay a dog license.
Using your mindset you would expect the kids next door who play with your dog to help pay for your dog license.
BTW using your argument above non property owners could be said to be indirectly paying it through rent to the owner of the property they are renting.
Of course the rental market will dictate whether landlords can just lump the tax onto tenants by upping the rents.
What we have at the moment is not really a true property tax and it being labelled as a household charge has mudded the waters.
'sunshine'? LOL.0 -
No, only the households that avail of the 'services' this is collected for.
How did they determine between a rich household and a poor one with the HHC?
Doubt it, thats why I'd be in favour of domestic rates. (which provide services)
Its still a tax (ground rent) for owning your own home, a home thats been paid for/is being paid for, and which you already pay for all the services it receives, be it via directly to a service provider, (Thorntons/Oxygen, Emergency services, etc etc) and via USC, Income tax and VAT
Exactly, someone finally gets it. Hence why I wont pay twice.
Oh I grasp it alright, the govt want to place a tax on my property, to provide local services, many of which are non existent, the others I aleardy paid for both directly and indirectly (as you yourself say above ^^)
What are you willing to ACCEPT ?
Do you think that you should have to pay no more taxes ?
BTW who do you think are the ones that should pay more taxes ?
Should everyone pay water rates even if they are not connected to the public water system ?
Should everyone pay a septic tank inspection tax/fee ?
I think people are getting hung up on this notion that property taxes are meant to be a form of service tax for local services.
The problem is the way the government are selling this and the quick introduction of the flat household charge mucked it up even more.
People have complained about household charge saying that it was unfair since everyone was made pay the same.
Then when a real property tax is porposed based on valuation, property owners are complaining since it doesn't penalise those who don't own any property.
The way I see it, a property tax is an asset tax pure and simple.
I would say that once property taxes are brought in stamp duty should be decreased as it would be double taxation.
Also there is argument that if one paid massive stamp duty on a normal home then one should pay lower property taxes for a few years.
These won't happen since we are so fooked and there will be no lowering of taxes.Are we sheep in Ireland?
Almost every other country in the worlld drive on the right hand side of the road, should we start switching to that too?
Yeah taxes and what side of the road you drive on are the related.
Ask donie cassidy what side we should drive on.
All of these things were ok with the FG party at one stage, Enda actually lobbied against it whenever he was in opposition FFS. Here's a bit of literature Enda printed off back in the day.
Remember, this was produced by the Fine Gael Party, not by anyone else.
http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2010/01/16/they-will-tax-the-roof-over-your-head-fine-gael-anti-property-tax-leaflet-1994/
Do you grasp the basics of politics ?
Polticans promise things and then when they find themselves in power they realise they can't deliver on them.
Believing in political manifestos is akin to believing in fairytales.
The real fooking problems are caused when they start, ala bertie or lynch, delivering on their promsies even the outlandish ones.
I am not allowed discuss …
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What are you willing to ACCEPT ?
Do you think that you should have to pay no more taxes ?
BTW who do you think are the ones that should pay more taxes ?
Should everyone pay water rates even if they are not connected to the public water system ?
Should everyone pay a septic tank inspection tax/fee ?
I think people are getting hung up on this notion that property taxes are meant to be a form of service tax for local services.
The problem is the way the government are selling this and the quick introduction of the flat household charge mucked it up even more.
People have complained about household charge saying that it was unfair since everyone was made pay the same.
Then when a real property tax is porposed based on valuation, property owners are complaining since it doesn't penalise those who don't own any property.
The way I see it, a property tax is an asset tax pure and simple.
I would say that once property taxes are brought in stamp duty should be decreased as it would be double taxation.
Also there is argument that if one paid massive stamp duty on a normal home then one should pay lower property taxes for a few years.
These won't happen since we are so fooked and there will be no lowering of taxes.
Yeah taxes and what side of the road you drive on are the related.
Ask donie cassidy what side we should drive on.
Do you grasp the basics of politics ?
Polticans promise things and then when they find themselves in power they realise they can't deliver on them.
Believing in political manifestos is akin to believing in fairytales.
The real fooking problems are caused when they start, ala bertie or lynch, delivering on their promsies even the outlandish ones.
Surely an 'asset tax' such as this will discourage home ownership and encourage people to seek out alternatives such as LA housing, thus increasing the pressure on LA's to provide same.
FFS at the rate we're going, people would be better off not owning anything and depending on the state to look after them.
All these new taxes are for short term gain with no thought for the long term.
My son has just graduated from college with his degree and I wouldn't encourage him to buy property here at any time in the near future, in fact I'd be encouraging him to get the **** away from Ireland before it drags him down.
No country for our youngest and brightest.
For shame!0 -
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