Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

dvpower

kr7 wrote: »

Don't forget the VAT you paid on your home too.

Well, I thnk we're all agreed so - the double taxation arguement is nonsense.

lugha

Dub XV wrote: »

But I may struggle if the government apply an extra tax, at whatever level they see fit, whenever they see fit!

There is a limit to what people can pay.

I would say “we” rather than the government (they are just the current, temporary!, administrators) and I would say at the necessary level rather than what they see as fit.

And yes, the majority of people will have difficulty paying an extra bill of a few hundred euro, or more, per year but that begs the question as to what you do about our deficit? (And a property tax will only scratch the surface of the problem)

Do you opt for some other taxes? If so, the people are still paying this one way or another.

Do we sell state assets? Ideology issues aside, this will contribute little.

Do you cut welfare rates? Most who favour this option like to focus on the 4% who were unemployed when there was a labour shortfall during the boom and can justifiably be less than sympathetic to those who choose this option. Of course the rate is now over 14% and we can reasonably assume that much of that difference would work, and probably did work but were made redundant, if they could. Is it fair to target those who have been hit the hardest with another blow?

Do we cut public sector salaries or even jobs? A salary cut to a PS worker amounting to say €1,000 net a year less causes exactly the same difficulty as a new tax for the same amount to a private sector worker. Ditto with a redundancy which is every bit as devastating regardless of what sector you work in.

Do we raise corporation tax? There is almost universal agreement that this would ultimately lead to a lower tax take from this sector.

Do what do we do? Quite simply, some combination of all of the above, with the possible exception of the last one. And ultimately that will be what will happen, no matter what government is in power. Of course some, for selfish reasons, would favour adopting some of these measures and steering clear of others. But IMO, the activities of even the more powerful lobbyists amount to little more than Titanic deck-chair re-arranging. At best I think why will succeed for the most part in securing a slightly less heavy load to bear than others.

If the property tax proves to be impossible to implement there will be some other tax which will be every bit as, well taxing on workers. But the alternative tax (say increased income tax) will not have the same advantage of a property tax.

And there will be another tax, and extensive cuts, and lots of painful medicine, not because the government are out of touch and don’t appreciate that people are already struggling, but because it is simply necessary. Four years into the crisis there still seems to be widespread denial about exactly how much trouble we are in. The property tax will be a mild pinch compared to what we, one way or another, will have to endure before we are out of this mire.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Bring it on......

Don't worry - the tax man will - with penalties.

kr7

dvpower wrote: »

Well, I thnk we're all agreed so - the double taxation arguement is nonsense.

How many taxes do you think we should pay for having the brass neck to provide for our own accommodation?

How many taxes do you think people who rent and LA tenants should be exempted from?

Try and not deflect from the questions and give me an answer or two.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

How many taxes do you think we should pay for having the brass neck to provide for our own accommodation?.

Just the once for ownership of property.

kr7 wrote: »

How many taxes do you think people who rent and LA tenants should be exempted from?

All that aren't applicable to them - same as anyone else.

Dub XV

dvpower wrote: »

People might a buy bigger car because they have a large family - does this make VRT or VAT a family tax?

I can choose between a BMW X5 or a n other cheap 7 seat car. If I wanna buy the X5 I am prepared for the expense, no?

As opposed to maybe having to move to an area away from family, schools etc. Moving County even.

It's not the same........not even close.

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

I can choose between a BMW X5 or a n other cheap 7 seat car. If I wanna buy the X5 I am prepared for the expense, no?

As opposed to maybe having to move to an area away from family, schools etc. Moving County even.

It's not the same........not even close.

The principle is the same. You can always rent. How does everyone else in the world manage?

Dub XV

lugha wrote: »

And yes, the majority of people will have difficulty paying an extra bill of a few hundred euro, or more, per year but that begs the question as to what you do about our deficit? (And a property tax will only scratch the surface of the problem)

I haven't a notion but I understand why you ask it.

Thankfully for us all I am not charged with solving the Country's deficit.

On the flip side there is no harm in me opposing such taxes. Fair play to people who are willing to bend over and accept everyting that comes to them. Without opposition democracy doesn't work?

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

The principle is the same. You can always rent. How does everyone else in the world manage?

Nope!

Some people in the world have no food....what's your point?

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

On the flip side there is no harm in me opposing such taxes. Fair play to people who are willing to bend over and accept everyting that comes to them. Without opposition democracy doesn't work?

No harm whatsoever, but you have to accept that non-payment is just going to lead to paying over the odds in penalties, and that we have an undoubted taxation shortfall. The democratic process works just fine - vote for the candidates that support your position regarding taxation.

tayto lover

alastair wrote: »

Don't worry - the tax man will - with penalties.

Won't pay those either. I will not pay to live in MY home.

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

Nope!

Some people in the world have no food....what's your point?

Yep - taxation scaled in both cases.
No-one forcing you to buy a big engined car, any more than they are forcing you to buy a valuable house. Renting is a perfectly viable alternative.

People with no food don't manage. But taxation on your residence is pretty much the norm everywhere - they do manage. Ireland isn't that special that the same won't apply here.

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

The principle is the same. You can always rent. How does everyone else in the world manage?

By the way are you for real?

You think I should just sell up and rent. Jeez

alastair

tayto lover wrote: »

Won't pay those either. I will not pay to live in MY home.

I will not pay to use MY car.

I think you'll find otherwise. Still no principles beyond 'Not liking it'?

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

By the way are you for real?

You think I should just sell up and rent. Jeez

No - I think you should stop whinging and pay your property tax - just like everyone else in the modern world has to.

tayto lover

Dub XV wrote: »

By the way are you for real?

You think I should just sell up and rent. Jeez

He is politically delusional. It's what happens when FG get power.

alastair

tayto lover wrote: »

He is politically delusional. It's what happens when FG get power.

Name me the potential coalition government that oppose property taxation? I believe I'm the political realist in this equation.

tayto lover

alastair wrote: »

Name me the potential coalition government that oppose property taxation? I believe I'm the political realist in this equation.

Guess who said this. Now i'm betting you get this right.
"It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a person's home"
Now he might have been in opposition but he did say it. That was said when he had principles.

kr7

Dub XV wrote: »

By the way are you for real?

You think I should just sell up and rent. Jeez

It's the kind of tripe that poster has been peddling here for a long time now.

Best off not feeding.....

alastair

tayto lover wrote: »

Guess who said this. Now i'm betting you get this right.
"It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a person's home"
Now he might have been in opposition but he did say it. That was said when he had principles.

You reckon so?

How about answering my question regarding political realism?

kr7

tayto lover wrote: »

Guess who said this. Now i'm betting you get this right.
"It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a person's home"
Now he might have been in opposition but he did say it. That was said when he had principles.

Principles quickly go out the window when you have a massive majority and a subservient coalition partner who'll take any old ****e thrown at them to stay in power as long as the CPA is sacrosanct.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Principles quickly go out the window when you have a massive majority and a subservient coalition partner who'll take any old ****e thrown at them to stay in power as long as the CPA is sacrosanct.

Since Tayto is so shy on this question - just like his principles regarding property taxation - maybe you can answer?

Name me the potential coalition government that oppose property taxation?

tayto lover

alastair wrote: »

Name me the potential coalition government that oppose property taxation? I believe I'm the political realist in this equation.

I don't honestly know because they might do an Enda and be against it until they get into power. Some party with actual principles may be true to their word someday. We can only hope while we stand and oppose.

alastair

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't honestly know because they might do an Enda and be against it until they get into power. Some party with actual principles may be true to their word someday. We can only hope while we stand and oppose.

Opposing on what basis though? - that's the question. Not too many are likely to support a campaign that amounts to 'I don't like it'.

I'll tell you this though - the real 'political delusion' is believeing that there's any sort of potential political support for removing property taxation from our future sustainable model of taxation.

tayto lover

alastair wrote: »

Opposing on what basis though? - that's the question. Not too many are likely to support a campaign that amounts to 'I don't like it'.

I'll tell you this though - the real 'political delusion' is believeing that there's any sort of potential political support for removing property taxation from our future sustainable model of taxation.

I will stand and oppose it on the basis that I believe it is wrong to tax a man's own family home. It is a PRIVATE house, a family home, provided 100% by myself when I worked 2 and sometimes 3 jobs to pay for it. I paid tax in those jobs too. I paid Stamp Duty and paid VAT on everything I put into it.
I didn't claim the dole for one day in my life and I always paid my taxes up to this. This one I will refuse to pay whatever the consequences.

I will defend my home to the last drop and pay nobody for the privilege of living in it. I pay for all services except water and I will pay for water when it comes in.

alastair

tayto lover wrote: »

I will stand and oppose it on the basis that I believe it is wrong to tax a man's own family home. It is a PRIVATE house, a family home, provided 100% by myself when I worked 2 and sometimes 3 jobs to pay for it. I paid tax in those jobs too. I paid Stamp Duty and paid VAT on everything I put into it.
I didn't claim the dole for one day in my life and I always paid my taxes up to this. This one I will refuse to pay whatever the consequences.

I will defend my home to the last drop and pay nobody for the privilege of living in it. I pay for all services except water and I will pay for water when it comes in.

Your car/TV/pension/etc is equally hard paid for and private though - no? Still not a sniff of a principled stand in the mix there.
The tough talk is cheap tbh - you'll end up paying regardless.

tayto lover

alastair wrote: »

Your car is equally hard paid for and private though - no? Still not a sniff of a principled stand in the mix there.
The tough talk is cheap tbh - you'll end up paying regardless.

My car uses their roads, my house does not use their roads and I don't have to put petrol into it either. It is stationary unlike my car.
And I won't pay this property tax.

alastair

tayto lover wrote: »

My car uses their roads, my house does not use their roads and I don't have to put petrol into it either. It is stationary unlike my car.

No road anywhere near your house then? Must be a bother walking from the car to your gaff.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

you'll end up paying regardless.

He already is paying for all his services though Alastair, this being the problem.
Tayto, me, and a lot more in this country will not pay twice.

Not this year, next year, nor any other year.

I've said before that this won't end well, the govt will really see anger when they attempt to implement this tax.

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

He already is paying for all his services though Alastair, this being the problem.
Tayto, me, and a lot more in this country will not pay twice.

You're/we're not even paying once at the moment - hence the deficit.