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Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

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    #872
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Again because it targets MY home.

    Yes. yes it does.


    and...


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    #873
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    Yes. yes it does.


    and...

    .... i'm not paying it for it to be handed over to their friends who gambled and lost. !!!


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    #874
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Ghandee wrote: »
    No, that's not what I asked.

    Where is the money going that used to fund the LA previous to this scam being introduced?

    Its been diverted to shore up the banks/bail out the banks.


    Like your 'indirect' tax principle, this money may be ear marked for local services, but only because the way they were previously funded now pays the banks and bondholders.

    We're expected to indirectly pay for it. That is a fact.

    I posted a link to the breakdown of where our taxes go before - the bank bailout is a drop in the deficit.

    Here it is: http://www.ronanlyons.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Monthly-tax-bill.png


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    #875
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    bgrizzley wrote: »

    That's not the problem with this country. Our society functions largely as a result of people seeking to make money for themselves. People have a natural drive to advance their self interests, this is never going to change, attempting to do so is counterproductive. We need to understand human nature and harness it in a way which benefits society. If people see an easy way to make profit to will attempt to do so.

    I see no point in being judgmental about this behaviour. People have always been the same with regards self interest. What we need to do is have laws in place to protect against the negative sides to our natural drives.

    the property boom wasnt the problem? people overstretching themselves with second mortgages cause they saw a handy way to make money?

    i have no problem with people making money hand over fist if they want, for better or worse its what drives the world. But homes are homes, not wealth assets and not investments.


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    #876
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    .... i'm not paying it for it to be handed over to their friends who gambled and lost. !!!

    That's right - you'll be paying it to fund local authorities.


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    #877
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I have always considered my home as being above taxation. It's the one big item you will purchase in a lifetime. It's where you will settle down and raise a family, decorate it the way you want and put the furniture you like into it. You have privacy there and should be able to enjoy it in peace in your old age. You will understand it better when you're older.

    Yes, but that's a personal opinion, rather than logical argument. By your reasoning, I could simply say that I've always considered my income as being above taxation since I devote half my waking hours earning it. And that's even leaving aside the fact that the purchase of a house isn't necessary for raising a family, buying furniture and enjoying privacy.
    bgrizzley wrote: »
    its not a wealth asset.

    I'm afraid it is. When you die and it goes to your kids or next of kin, it will be a significant asset that is being passed on to them.


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    #878
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    That's right - you'll be paying it to fund local authorities.

    While they hand over my other taxes to their friends then.


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    #879
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    While they hand over my other taxes to their friends then.

    By 'friends' you mean bondholders? A small portion of them - yes.


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    #880
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    bgrizzley wrote: »

    That's not the problem with this country. Our society functions largely as a result of people seeking to make money for themselves. People have a natural drive to advance their self interests, this is never going to change, attempting to do so is counterproductive. We need to understand human nature and harness it in a way which benefits society. If people see an easy way to make profit to will attempt to do so.

    I see no point in being judgmental about this behaviour. People have always been the same with regards self interest. What we need to do is have laws in place to protect against the negative sides to our natural drives.

    the property boom wasnt the problem? people overstretching themselves with second mortgages cause they saw a handy way to make money?

    i have no problem with people making money hand over fist if they want, for better or worse its what drives the world. But homes are homes, not wealth assets and not investments.

    I didn't say the property boom wasn't the problem. I just don't see the point in blaming the greedy speculators, there is nothing wrong with lawfully seeking a to maximise your profits.

    If you think homes shouldn't be investments then the issue is with the regulators, everyone wants the best for themselves and their family, how can you blame that, it's an excercise in futility, it won't change people's natural drives.


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    #881
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    tayto lover wrote: »
    .... i'm not paying it for it to be handed over to their friends who gambled and lost. !!!

    And when you pay the extra income tax you are prepared to pay where do you expect this to go?


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    #882
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    golden lane wrote: »
    keep going tayto ...you are winning...

    you, object to paying a tax on your property......they, by quoting all sorts of other taxes are losing the arguement.....

    keep up the good work......

    No, his point makes no sense and has no consistency, otherwise he'd object to paying VAT, Stamp Duty and Inheritance tax.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #883
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    donalg1 wrote: »
    And when you pay the extra income tax you are prepared to pay where do you expect this to go?

    I know where it will go but at least it's not an attack on my home.


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    #884
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    Ghandee wrote: »
    How much did la funding get cut by at the last budget?

    Where has the money that previously paid that been diverted to?

    I would like to know this too, as, even after it was diverted, my money kept getting cut.


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    #885
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I know where it will go but at least it's not an attack on my home.

    Nor is property taxation. And you concede the bondholder argument is a red herring then?


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    #886
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    tayto lover wrote: »
    donalg1 wrote: »
    And when you pay the extra income tax you are prepared to pay where do you expect this to go?

    I know where it will go but at least it's not an attack on my home.

    Anyone can apply your argument to a wide array of taxes. It essentially comes down to " because I say so".


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    #887
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    darkhorse wrote: »
    I would like to know this too, as, even after it was diverted, my money kept getting cut.

    Where your tax goes: http://www.ronanlyons.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Monthly-tax-bill.png


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    #888
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Anyone can apply your argument to a wide array of taxes. It essentially comes down to " because I say so".

    BUT i'm the one who is being asked, not anyone. I can only give my own reasons for objecting to it. Funnily enough though I seem to have the same argument as quite a considerable amount of people.


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    #889
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I know where it will go but at least it's not an attack on my home.

    Its an attack on your household income, which is pretty much an attack on your home. Although I think if they did raise income tax instead of a property tax you would protest against this as its an attack on your income, which isnt fair as others dont have to pay this, and sure its only going to bondholders.:rolleyes:


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    #890
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    BUT i'm the one who is being asked, not anyone. I can only give my own reasons for objecting to it. Funnily enough though I seem to have the same argument as quite a considerable amount of people.

    An unprincipled one. 'I don't like it' isn't a compelling case.


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    #891
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    Where your tax goes: http://www.ronanlyons.com/wp-content...y-tax-bill.png

    Link not working.


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    #892
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Its an attack on your household income, which is pretty much an attack on your home. Although I think if they did raise income tax instead of a property tax you would protest against this as its an attack on your income, which isnt fair as others dont have to pay this, and sure its only going to bondholders.:rolleyes:

    Well I haven't protested about it before, so there :rolleyes:


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    #893
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    An unprincipled one. 'I don't like it' isn't a compelling case.

    Nearly a million "don't like it" Al.


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    #894
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Link not working.

    http://www.ronanlyons.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Monthly-tax-bill.png


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    #895
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Nearly a million "don't like it" Al.

    So? Does anyone like paying taxes?


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    #896
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    http://www.ronanlyons.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Monthly-tax-bill.png

    So the working man is screwed by everyone else. Always has been.


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    #897
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    So the working man is screwed by everyone else. Always has been.

    Well - the wealthier you are - the higher level of income tax is liable - so it's a fair enough burden on the working man. The same ratios applies regardless of how much income tax you pay. The bank bailout is really small fry in the overall picture.


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    #898
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    We live in a welfare state. Our population has consistently voted for parties that endorse that. So its hardly surprising that most of our spending goes on social welfare, health and education.


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    #899
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Well I haven't protested about it before, so there :rolleyes:

    So you are happy for them to raise income tax and will be more than happy to pay the increases, despite the fact that this does not solve the problem of the predictable tax base that needs to be created.

    I think if your argument against a property tax is that you dont want to pay it then you need to think up a new argument as this wont go very far.


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    #900
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    alastair wrote: »
    Where your tax goes: http://www.ronanlyons.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Monthly-tax-bill.png

    Thats a lovely chart. I wonder where that info came from. Oh, it probably came from the same place where they mislaid the three and half billion.


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    #901
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    darkhorse wrote: »
    Thats a lovely chart. I wonder where that info came from. Oh, it probably came from the same place where they mislaid the three and half billion.

    Like that one? Here's one of my own - just isolating the bank bailout portion of average household income tax outgoings: http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/6826/taxbill.jpg


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