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Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

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    #902
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    donalg1 wrote: »
    So you are happy for them to raise income tax and will be more than happy to pay the increases, despite the fact that this does not solve the problem of the predictable tax base that needs to be created.

    I think if your argument against a property tax is that you dont want to pay it then you need to think up a new argument as this wont go very far.

    Donal1 please don't start this again. It's played out now.


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    #903
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Donal1 please don't start this again. It's played out now.

    What is? Your inability to articulate a case against property taxation?


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    #904
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    What is? Your inability to articulate a case against property taxation?

    Circles Al circles.


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    #905
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    arguements lost!!!!.......insults arrive...


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    #906
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    More people would have paid it long ago if the government didn't make a complete hash of it. Everywhere I heard threatening language. Not a way elected public representives should speak or engage with their people.

    The whole thing is a mess from start to finish.


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    #907
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    golden lane wrote: »
    arguements lost!!!!.......insults arrive...

    He's been at that for awhile and has been banned several times. Just pay no heed of him.


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    #908
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    tayto lover wrote: »
    He's been at that for awhile and has been banned several times. Just pay no heed of him.

    you stand by your right to not agree with an unfair tax.........and not pay that tax...

    too many rights taken from the average person....


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    #909
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    He's been at that for awhile and has been banned several times. Just pay no heed of him.

    Heh - you've exposed your own hypocrisy and nonsensical rationalisation in evading this tax - I'm just here to observe.


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    #910
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    golden lane wrote: »
    you stand by your right to not agree with an unfair tax...

    'Unfair' because you 'say so'.

    Compelling case made there.


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    #911
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Mod

    I don't know where ye get the energy. How about we all have some tea and take a break for a while?

    One sugar, white. :)


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    #912
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    More people would have paid it long ago if the government didn't make a complete hash of it. Everywhere I heard threatening language.

    Now - care to point to the specific threats you heard 'everywhere'? I'm not buying it.

    No doubt they made a hash of it - but honestly? 'Threats'?


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    #913
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    golden lane wrote: »
    you stand by your right to not agree with an unfair tax.........and not pay that tax...

    too many rights taken from the average person....
    Nobody ever had a 'right' to refuse payment of their taxes, this one included.


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    #914
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    alastair wrote: »
    'Unfair' because you 'say so'.

    Compelling case made there.

    yes, and if you cannot listen to people views, what are you......a dictator....

    last time i looked.....everybody is entitled to their opinion.....

    are you from somewhere...where, that is not the case..????


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    #915
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    golden lane wrote: »
    yes, and if you cannot listen to people views, what are you......a dictator....

    last time i looked.....everybody is entitled to their opinion.....

    are you from somewhere...where, that is not the case..????


    i see, you have used the word compel....


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    #916
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dvpower wrote: »
    Nobody ever had a 'right' to refuse payment of their taxes, this one included.

    Ali, are you reading your buddies opinion up there ^^^:pac:


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    #917
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    dvpower wrote: »
    Nobody ever had a 'right' to refuse payment of their taxes, this one included.


    read the post before you answer....


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    #918
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    golden lane wrote: »
    yes, and if you cannot listen to people views, what are you......a dictator....

    last time i looked.....everybody is entitled to their opinion.....

    are you from somewhere...where, that is not the case..????

    You know what they say about opinions?

    Can you support your contention that property taxation is 'unfair', because the opinion isn't really worth much without some solid evidence.


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    #919
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Ali, are you reading your buddies opinion up there ^^^:pac:

    I've no argument against that. I've repeated to boredom that I fully expected to have to pay my poll tax despite my protest.

    I've no problem with people protesting the HHC by delaying their payment - as long as they accept that they'll pay the price for doing so in late penalties.


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    #920
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    alastair wrote: »
    I've no argument against that. I've repeated to boredom that I fully expected to have to pay my poll tax despite my protest.

    I've no problem with people protesting the HHC by delaying their payment - as long as they accept that they'll pay the price for doing so in late penalties.

    No, like the poll tax, this one will (and is being) be defeated.

    They're losing this one Al.


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    #921
    Lord of the Bongs
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭Lord of the Bongs


    If the government want to do this they must do it right and fairly.

    First off, they will have to deduct it from people wages. only, forgive me for saying so, do Idiots sign up and pay taxes, save for car tax but the cops do be on the look out for that.

    maybe every house will be required to have a Household disk on the front door for the local coco yob to tick off his chart (theres a thought)

    secondly, and it must be said, for a second home double the charge.

    thirdly, sliding scale by size, dimension and location of house. If your John Smith with a three bed in Ballygobackwards Co. Roscommon your charge should NOT be the same for Jenny Smith with the same gaff in Dalkey, Why u ask, well public transportation, better facilites, shops and the like.

    and finally forth one, you will get me to pay this charge over my dead girlfriends body.


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    #922
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Ghandee wrote: »
    No, like the poll tax, this one will (and is being) be defeated.

    They're losing this one Al.

    That's why they've let us know the broad outline of next year's property tax, and who'll be responsible for enforcing/collecting it. Okay.


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    #923
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Donal1 please don't start this again. It's played out now.

    What is played out, I only asked you did you see the difference between income tax and property tax, and can you see why they may want to introduce a property tax before raising income tax? Nice avoidance though.


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    #924
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    alastair wrote: »
    golden lane wrote: »
    you stand by your right to not agree with an unfair tax...

    'Unfair' because you 'say so'.

    Compelling case made there.
    It is unfair as some people will end up paying more tax on identical properties.
    Based on value will mean people in cities will pay more for services that are cheaper to provide. Economy of scale.
    You will also have people paying less in remote areas but using facilities in areas with higher property tax.
    It is not balanced.
    Rather not pay property tax but if it is fair I can live with it.
    There is also the simple fact they aren't charging everybody for the services. Only property owners, do renters not use the services?
    The household charge is a scam as it isn't for the household it is for the property.


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    #925
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    alastair wrote: »
    You know what they say about opinions?

    Can you support your contention that property taxation is 'unfair', because the opinion isn't really worth much without some solid evidence.

    i know what your contempt is for peoples opinions.....

    and the fact that you live in a democracy.....has not dawned on you...yet...

    shame, really.......it will one day...

    insults seem to be you idea of a debate......i wonder where did you learn that ??


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    #926
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    golden lane wrote: »
    alastair wrote: »
    'Unfair' because you 'say so'.

    Compelling case made there.

    yes, and if you cannot listen to people views, what are you......a dictator....

    last time i looked.....everybody is entitled to their opinion.....

    are you from somewhere...where, that is not the case..????

    Of course Tayto is entitled to his opinion, but he hasn't given a reasonable argument. His reasoning comes down to his own preferences. I can argue I don't want to pay income tax because I earned my wages through my own hard work, but it would be stupid argument.


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    #927
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    It is unfair as some people will end up paying more tax on identical properties.
    Based on value will mean people in cities will pay more for services that are cheaper to provide. Economy of scale.
    You will also have people paying less in remote areas but using facilities in areas with higher property tax.
    It is not balanced.
    Rather not pay property tax but if it is fair I can live with it.
    There is also the simple fact they aren't charging everybody for the services. Only property owners, do renters not use the services?
    The household charge is a scam as it isn't for the household it is for the property.

    Everyone continues to pay for local authority services.

    Identical properties will have identical charges - beyond that we don't know the banding mechanism that'll be applied, so no-one can comment on it's fairness.

    And yes - it's a property tax - which is probably why it's referred to as such.


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    #928
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    golden lane wrote: »
    i know what your contempt is for peoples opinions.....

    and the fact that you live in a democracy.....has not dawned on you...yet...

    shame, really.......it will one day...

    insults seem to be you idea of a debate......i wonder where did you learn that ??

    And since when can people in a democracy decide what taxes they do or dont pay. They can protest against the introduction of new taxes are definitely entitled to do so, but when they refuse to pay those taxes that were introduced by a democratically elected government, they are in the wrong surely.


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    #929
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    golden lane wrote: »
    i know what your contempt is for peoples opinions.....

    and the fact that you live in a democracy.....has not dawned on you...yet...

    shame, really.......it will one day...

    insults seem to be you idea of a debate......i wonder where did you learn that ??

    The democracy we live in has introduced the property tax. Beyond that - I'm not sure what democracy has to do with providing some substance to unfounded opinions?

    My 'opinion' is that all the property tax will actually go to Elvis's secret ranch in Mayo where he rides around on Shergar. I'm perfectly entitled to that opinion, but I wouldn't expect anyone else to subscribe to it.


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    #930
    Lord of the Bongs
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭Lord of the Bongs


    donalg1 wrote: »
    And since when can people in a democracy decide what taxes they do or dont pay. They can protest against the introduction of new taxes are definitely entitled to do so, but when they refuse to pay those taxes that were introduced by a democratically elected government, they are in the wrong surely.

    Irish democracy 2012.


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    #931
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Lord of the Bongs wrote: »
    Irish democracy 2012.

    Representational democracy since the year dot.


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