Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

The tax came about to bailout bankers.

No it didn't. It came around now because of a pressing deficit.

Lord of the Bongs

dvpower wrote: »

Handly that tax evaders can bravely 'stand up against austerity' by simply evading yet another tax.

the personal austerity thats leveled towards me, I cant pay these stupid taxes and wont pay them, more more serious bills like keeping a roof over my head to worry about.

Call me a tax evader but your just being led by the nose of another incompetent government.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

The tax came about to bailout bankers.

I want no part in that thank you very much.

Keep telling yourself that, depite all of the evidence that you are constantly being shown, and you choose to ignore.

Lord of the Bongs

donalg1 wrote: »

How is not paying your TV licence or Motor Tax standing up against austerity? To me it seems a pretty clear case of breaking the law.

Are you saying I can break whatever law I choose and say "hey I was just standing up against austerity" and expect people to say well sure thats ok then.

no its called paying for something thats real. I dont think paying a invisble tax to watch my TV is worth paying for, i pat the ESB and shop I bought the TV in for that, taxes and all. As for walking my dog, well I pick up her poo but its a luxury I have her why the fook should i be taxed for having a pet? do u pay ur Cat tax??

Dub XV

donalg1 wrote: »

You are wasting your time talking sense about the property tax, people dont want to listen to sense as it may mean they have to use some of their disposable income to pay new taxes.

I mean god forbid people actually have to pay for thier mistakes when taking out massive mortgages they couldnt afford just because Joe down the road had a nice house and they needed to compete, and then all the other unneccessary accessories everyone has, sense went out the window during the boom and shows no signs of ever coming back in the window.

The bottom line is everyone knows Ireland is broke, however nobody wants to take responsibility for this or admit they made mistakes and the general public think everyone else but them should pay for it.

Another load of bull****!

Who has a massive mortgage here? Is JP a poster?

donalg1

Lord of the Bongs wrote: »

the personal austerity thats leveled towards me, I cant pay these stupid taxes and wont pay them, more more serious bills like keeping a roof over my head to worry about.

Call me a tax evader but your just being led by the nose of another incompetent government.

You seem to be changing your argument now, a minute ago you were telling all and sundry how clever you were for not paying your TV licence or Motor Tax. You were calling everyone else idiots for paying their taxes. You were actually saying that not paying your TV licence is a way to make a stand against austerity ditto motor tax. Now you are saying you cant pay these taxes.

I think the hole you have dug is too deep at this stage.

Oh and you are a tax evader pure and simple you have admitted as much here.

dvpower

Dub XV wrote: »

What a load of tosh!

Dub XV wrote: »

Bollox!

Dub XV wrote: »

Another load of bull****!

I like the way you analytically destroyed those arguements point by point.

Lord of the Bongs

donalg1 wrote: »

You seem to be changing your argument now, a minute ago you were telling all and sundry how clever you were for not paying your TV licence or Motor Tax. You were calling everyone else idiots for paying their taxes. You were actually saying that not paying your TV licence is a way to make a stand against austerity ditto motor tax. Now you are saying you cant pay these taxes.

I think the hole you have dug is too deep at this stage.

Oh and you are a tax evader pure and simple you have admitted as much here.

Yes and u will be paying whatever tax they continue to bring in to pay off the banks, good lad. I cant pay these taxes, wont pay and even if I could I would not. you on the other hand sound like you have no problem whatsoever at all in paying new taxes, no matter how many they bring in or what they put them on. like i said good lad, not very smart but compliant and led by the nose.

donalg1

Lord of the Bongs wrote: »

Yes and u will be paying whatever tax they continue to bring in to pay off the banks, good lad. I cant pay these taxes, wont pay and even if I could I would not. you on the other hand sound like you have no problem whatsoever at all in paying new taxes, no matter how many they bring in or what they put them on. like i said good lad, not very smart but compliant and led by the nose.

Wow and calling someone stupid for paying their taxes is very smart is it?

Unfortunately I have no choice in paying new taxes whether I like it or not I must pay these as this is the law. Unlike you I dont think breaking the law is smart or clever, I actually think breaking the law is rather stupid especially when breaking said laws could lead to me being fined more money than I would have had to pay in the first place.

I have met a few people in my time that think breaking laws is cool and fun to do but these are the types of people I try avoid tbh, as they are going nowhere in life but in and out of court and prison.

And we will all be paying whatever taxes they bring in to pay off the banks unfortunately that is the country we live in today.

lugha

Lord of the Bongs wrote: »

Yes and u will be paying whatever tax they continue to bring in to pay off the banks, good lad. I cant pay these taxes, wont pay and even if I could I would not. you on the other hand sound like you have no problem whatsoever at all in paying new taxes, no matter how many they bring in or what they put them on. like i said good lad, not very smart but compliant and led by the nose.

So presumably you found a way to evade paying the USC? Would you be so good as to share your secret with us?

Ray Palmer

alastair wrote: »

Everyone continues to pay for local authority services.

Identical properties will have identical charges - beyond that we don't know the banding mechanism that'll be applied, so no-one can comment on it's fairness.

And yes - it's a property tax - which is probably why it's referred to as such.

Except some have to pay more to LA because they own! That is unfair
As I stated stamp duty means indentical houses have paid more property tax. So it isn't identical tax on identical property.
The household charge was meant to be that but it was made a property tax.
As you ignored the other points I guess you saw them as unfair too.
As it will be based on price you can be certain it is unfair when considering cities.

darkhorse

donalg1 wrote: »

Same way we are all idiots to pay our Motor Tax and TV Licence then, or do we pay these because the penalties are higher? And because we are more likely to be caught for not paying them?

Do you think it is idiotic to pay €100 or €100 plus late penalties?

You really can't make a comparison here, donal. After all, T.V. and Car is a luxury, whereas a home is a necessity.

alastair

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Except some have to pay more to LA because they own! That is unfair.

No it's not. I don't expect to pay tax on savings I don't have, a car I don't have, or a house I don't own. If you've an asset that's deemed taxable - that's fair enough.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

As I stated stamp duty means indentical houses have paid more property tax. So it isn't identical tax on identical property.

Stamp duty is nothing to do with property taxes or the value ascribed to a property. If I've a lego house that I paid twice what you did for an identical lego house - the value of the two houses is identical regardless. Two identical properties in terms of value will be liable for the same property tax.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The household charge was meant to be that but it was made a property tax.

The HHC is the temporary flat rate property tax that leads into the fully-fledged banded system. It was flagged as a temporary arrangement from the get-go.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

As you ignored the other points I guess you saw them as unfair too.
As it will be based on price you can be certain it is unfair when considering cities.

Why? It's a tax on the value of an asset. I'd expect that my lego house in Foxrock has more value than one in Mayo. That understanding is reflected in what people pay for property - the underlying reality doesn't fly out the window when it comes to taxation.

donalg1

darkhorse wrote: »

You really can't make a comparison here, donal. After all, T.V. and Car is a luxury, whereas a home is a necessity.

I kind of can make a comparison really though, I see it as I own a car so I pay motor tax, I own a house so I pay a property tax, I own a TV so I pay a TV licence, they are all taxes for owning something so of course I can compare them.

I could also argue that owning a home is a luxury. I could also argue that a car is a necessity for me.

Chips Lovell

Paying more on the basis of owning more has been a long standing characteristic of our taxation system.

alastair

darkhorse wrote: »

You really can't make a comparison here, donal. After all, T.V. and Car is a luxury, whereas a home is a necessity.

Is home 'ownership' a necessity? It's also pretty arguable that a car is a discretionary purchase for many.

dvpower

darkhorse wrote: »

You really can't make a comparison here, donal. After all, T.V. and Car is a luxury, whereas a home is a necessity.

Home ownership is a necessity now! :eek:

Lord of the Bongs

donalg1 wrote: »

Wow and calling someone stupid for paying their taxes is very smart is it?

Unfortunately I have no choice in paying new taxes whether I like it or not I must pay these as this is the law. Unlike you I dont think breaking the law is smart or clever, I actually think breaking the law is rather stupid especially when breaking said laws could lead to me being fined more money than I would have had to pay in the first place.

I have met a few people in my time that think breaking laws is cool and fun to do but these are the types of people I try avoid tbh, as they are going nowhere in life but in and out of court and prison.

And we will all be paying whatever taxes they bring in to pay off the banks unfortunately that is the country we live in today.

yeah im so cool :cool: lol im not doing it to be clever or cool, im doing it to save cash and not to pay an unjust absurd charge, I pay my taxes just not the ones the conjure up to pay off the banks and a failed property bubble. You may be happy to post a high and mighty law abiding citizen attitude but its people like you who have no spine to stand up is what is wrong with this feeble country.

Lord of the Bongs

lugha wrote: »

So presumably you found a way to evade paying the USC? Would you be so good as to share your secret with us?

USC ?

Chips Lovell

Lord of the Bongs wrote: »

yeah im so cool :cool: lol im not doing it to be clever or cool, im doing it to save cash and not to pay an unjust absurd charge, I pay my taxes just not the ones the conjure up to pay off the banks and a failed property bubble. You may be happy to post a high and mighty law abiding citizen attitude but its people like you who have no spine to stand up is what is wrong with this feeble country.

Do you actually think taxes are ring fenced like that? That the ones you don't pay are the ones used to pay for the bank bailout? You also said you don't pay your TV licence. I doubt that's going towards the bailout.

donalg1

Lord of the Bongs wrote: »

yeah im so cool :cool: lol im not doing it to be clever or cool, im doing it to save cash and not to pay an unjust absurd charge, I pay my taxes just not the ones the conjure up to pay off the banks and a failed property bubble. You may be happy to post a high and mighty law abiding citizen attitude but its people like you who have no spine to stand up is what is wrong with this feeble country.

What is wrong with this country is that there are too many people here expecting a free ride. What is wrong is that people are ready to admit the country is screwed yet want everyone else to do something about it while they get away with not paying anything.

Now you are saying you are breaking the law to save cash, first it was because you are not an idiot, then it was because you cant pay them now its because you are saving money. So then its ok for me to steal from someone because I will be saving my own cash if I take theirs?

If you think I am high and mighty for obeying the laws of this country well thats your opinion, I prefer to think of it as not being a criminal and thats all. You seem to believe those that dont break the law are superior to you, why is that?

Dub XV

Are you a Homeowner Donalg1?

golden lane

dvpower wrote: »

I did.


Again, nobody has a 'right' to refuse to pay their taxes. That includes you, me, Alister and everyone else.

still haven't read the post.......

donalg1

Dub XV wrote: »

Are you a Homeowner Donalg1?

Obviously otherwise I wouldnt be here would I?

donalg1

Lord of the Bongs wrote: »

USC ?

Seriously?

Dub XV

donalg1 wrote: »

Obviously otherwise I wouldnt be here would I?

Ha ha. How the jaysus would I know. You may just love a good wum like the rest!

Do you have a family to support?

Ray Palmer

alastair wrote: »

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Except some have to pay more to LA because they own! That is unfair.

No it's not. I don't expect to pay tax on savings I don't have, a car I don't have, or a house I don't own. If you've an asset that's deemed taxable - that's fair enough.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

As I stated stamp duty means indentical houses have paid more property tax. So it isn't identical tax on identical property.

Stamp duty is nothing to do with property taxes or the value ascribed to a property. If I've a lego house that I paid twice what you did for an identical lego house - the value of the two houses is identical regardless. Two identical properties in terms of value will be liable for the same property tax.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The household charge was meant to be that but it was made a property tax.

The HHC is the temporary flat rate property tax that leads into the fully-fledged banded system. It was flagged as a temporary arrangement from the get-go.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

As you ignored the other points I guess you saw them as unfair too.
As it will be based on price you can be certain it is unfair when considering cities.

Why? It's a tax on the value of an asset. I'd expect that my lego house in Foxrock has more value than one in Mayo. That understanding is reflected in what people pay for property - the underlying reality doesn't fly out the window when it comes to taxation.

You pay tax on profits made not on your savings. The apparent reason for the tax is for LA. you use those services so you should pay.
Stamp duty is based on the value of the property. It is a tax on property. You obviously don't understand valuation of property given what you said.
As services in cities will be cheaper to provide yet more tax will be taken there is a disconnect from the valuation to the service provided.
HHC was forced in by the eu. It was meant to be as described. It was changed to be a property tax and said to be replaced. It didn't start as a property tax.
Reading back I see you changed what way valuation on property is done and how it is fair.

Lord of the Bongs

donalg1 wrote: »

What is wrong with this country is that there are too many people here expecting a free ride. What is wrong is that people are ready to admit the country is screwed yet want everyone else to do something about it while they get away with not paying anything.

Now you are saying you are breaking the law to save cash, first it was because you are not an idiot, then it was because you cant pay them now its because you are saving money. So then its ok for me to steal from someone because I will be saving my own cash if I take theirs?

If you think I am high and mighty for obeying the laws of this country well thats your opinion, I prefer to think of it as not being a criminal and thats all. You seem to believe those that dont break the law are superior to you, why is that?

Im not stealing and am not a criminal. Jesus, have you got any clue to what types of 'criminals' were/are running this country at all?? I have my head out of the sand my friend and am not going to be bullied by the policies or politics of any administration that has as its motto 'screw the little guy they wont stand up for themselves' . im standing up for myself,, first and foremost. ask not what your country has done to you, ask what your country is going to do to you if you dont take some sort of a stand. What I earn in my wages is hard earned and im not going to be forced to pay absurd taxes, seriously, the theifs are the failed bankers and politicians something is wrong with your mentality and willingness to pay whatever the say is a tax law i feel. you almost sound too ready to pay?

Lord of the Bongs

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Do you actually think taxes are ring fenced like that? That the ones you don't pay are the ones used to pay for the bank bailout? You also said you don't pay your TV licence. I doubt that's going towards the bailout.

No dont be simple.

Lets just say that until the ones who owe millions, for example, property developers who havent paid their development levies are held accountable, then I see no reason as to why I (or anyone else for that matter!) should be forced to pay a household charge!

donalg1

Lord of the Bongs wrote: »

Im not stealing and am not a criminal. Jesus, have you got any clue to what types of 'criminals' were/are running this country at all?? I have my head out of the sand my friend and am not going to be bullied by the policies or politics of any administration that has as its motto 'screw the little guy they wont stand up for themselves' . im standing up for myself,, first and foremost. ask not what your country has done to you, ask what your country is going to do to you if you dont take some sort of a stand. What I earn in my wages is hard earned and im not going to be forced to pay absurd taxes, seriously, the theifs are the failed bankers and politicians something is wrong with your mentality and willingness to pay whatever the say is a tax law i feel. you almost sound too ready to pay?

Well obviously I would rather not pay taxes however, I dont see how I can pick and choose which ones I pay. If I am liable to pay them well then I must pay them as not paying them would be breaking the law. How do you keep missing this point? Or do you think its acceptable to break whatever laws we decide we dont like?

You openly and knowingly break laws, yet you say you are not a criminal?