Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

golden lane

kr7 wrote: »

The only answer is not to pay it.

I wonder what pat rabbitte meant about the government having to 'bite the bullet' on the property tax......

is that a traditional dessert, after eating the golden eggs....

the houseowners are all being stuffed....so the gfa, the banks, and the social bill can be protected...

dvpower

kr7 wrote: »

I wonder what pat rabbitte meant about the government having to 'bite the bullet' on the property tax......

It obviously means that the Cabinet are going to make the decision on exactly what kind of property tax is going to be introduced, the rates, the amount it is to raise etc.

tayto lover

alastair wrote: »

What we need is a strong man to take a hold of this country, to get the trains running on time, a man with a plan, a vision, a leader...

"Whenever a strong man, fully armed and equipped, is guarding his own castle, he enjoys peaceful possession of his property; Luke 11:21.

kr7

dvpower wrote: »

It obviously means that the Cabinet are going to make the decision on exactly what kind of property tax is going to be introduced, the rates, the amount it is to raise etc.

One could draw that conclusion I suppose, One could also draw the conclusion that Labour are getting jittery and want it scrapped...

Time will tell.

I won't be paying it either way.

kr7

tayto lover wrote: »

"Whenever a strong man, fully armed and equipped, is guarding his own castle, he enjoys peaceful possession of his property; Luke 11:21.

Or woman....

I'll be enjoying my peaceful possession so.

How about yourself?

golden lane

kr7 wrote: »

One could draw that conclusion I suppose, One could also draw the conclusion that Labour are getting jittery and want it scrapped...

Time will tell.

I won't be paying it either way.

a good decision, but as the country needs that money....have you any suggestions as to how the country can get it a fairer way....

kr7

golden lane wrote: »

a good decision, but as the country needs that money....have you any suggestions as to how the country can get it a fairer way....

A 5% cut in welfare rates across the board, not too painful and it raises/saves €1.1 billion.

dvpower

kr7 wrote: »

One could also draw the conclusion that Labour are getting jittery and want it scrapped...

If one was daft.

kr7

dvpower wrote: »

If one was daft.

Time will tell.

lugha

kr7 wrote: »

A 5% cut in welfare rates across the board, not too painful and it raises/saves €1.1 billion.

How can you argue that a 5% cut in dole (or about €500, a likely average property tax payment) is “not too painful” for those on an income of less than €10,000 per year when but it is a cut too deep for those of us fortunate to still have jobs? Don’t you have this great concern for fairness?

And don’t forget that the majority of the unemployed do want to work and would if they could get a job. Indeed many of them did work and had the same expenses (mortgages etc.) as the rest of us before they were made redundant?

bgrizzley

lugha wrote: »

How can you argue that a 5% cut in dole (or about €500, a likely average property tax payment) is “not too painful” for those on an income of less than €10,000 per year when but it is a cut too deep for those of us fortunate to still have jobs? Don’t you have this great concern for fairness?

And don’t forget that the majority of the unemployed do want to work and would if they could get a job. Indeed many of them did work and had the same expenses (mortgages etc.) as the rest of us before they were made redundant?

my complete sympathy to the extra 10% who lost their jobs in the last few years, but just pointing out that they could be paying 1000 next year and more every year after that (even when they are back working).
500<1000

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

"Whenever a strong man, fully armed and equipped, is guarding his own castle, he enjoys peaceful possession of his property; Luke 11:21.

When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. “But when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armor on which he had relied and distributes his plunder.

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. “But when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armor on which he had relied and distributes his plunder.

Ha ha That's when he gets the Hackballscross uppercut.

golden lane

kr7 wrote: »

A 5% cut in welfare rates across the board, not too painful and it raises/saves €1.1 billion.

if welfare rates did not include those that have paid into the system and are getting what is due back.....yes, i would agree.....

lugha

bgrizzley wrote: »

my complete sympathy to the extra 10% who lost their jobs in the last few years, but just pointing out that they could be paying 1000 next year and more every year after that (even when they are back working).
500<1000

Or it could be €1,500 if they happened to be homeowners. And even this will dwarf what the people will ultimately have to pay, one way or another, before we are out of this mess.

I just wonder how those who cite unfairness as a major reason for objection to a property tax can sincerely offer as a solution that those who are worst off (and the “don’t want to be” employed are the worst off) should take a hit but the better off (and if you are still working, you are in the ranks of the better off) should pay nothing.

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. “But when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armor on which he had relied and distributes his plunder.

"We can refuse to pay taxes if we have the requisite strength."

darkhorse

golden lane wrote: »

like a bank guarentee...leading to a so called property tax......leading to a section of the country being led by the ears.....but that is only the most docile part of the population, who have no unions to protect them...and no way of pleading poverty.....because they have property....

This is a piece in the Irish Times by Edward Leane. I think its very relevant.

Things change when the people are united on basic principles which are clearly understood and achievable.
Not since the middle ages has there been such a concerted effort to deny people their basic absolute individual human rights and the reason the ruling elite can get away with this is because people have been conned into accepting phony rights which are designed to create chaos and exploitation.
Instead of the absolute right to ownership of property the new right is the ruling elite have the right to deny you that right in whatever way they wish.

kr7

lugha wrote: »

How can you argue that a 5% cut in dole (or about €500, a likely average property tax payment) is “not too painful” for those on an income of less than €10,000 per year when but it is a cut too deep for those of us fortunate to still have jobs? Don’t you have this great concern for fairness?

And don’t forget that the majority of the unemployed do want to work and would if they could get a job. Indeed many of them did work and had the same expenses (mortgages etc.) as the rest of us before they were made redundant?

So, welfare cannot be touched?

kr7

lugha wrote: »

Or it could be €1,500 if they happened to be homeowners. And even this will dwarf what the people will ultimately have to pay, one way or another, before we are out of this mess.

I just wonder how those who cite unfairness as a major reason for objection to a property tax can sincerely offer as a solution that those who are worst off (and the “don’t want to be” employed are the worst off) should take a hit but the better off (and if you are still working, you are in the ranks of the better off) should pay nothing.

If your lucky enough to still have a job in the private sector, you can almost guarantee that you've taken more than a 5% pay cut recently.

Unlike the PS, pay rises are not the norm at the moment.

lugha

kr7 wrote: »

So, welfare cannot be touched?

It unfortunately will have to be. Just as there will have to be extensive cuts in all spending, particularly public sector pay and maybe even redundancies. Just as there will have to be additional taxes as well as the property tax.

I have consistently said that everybody is going to have to endure a cartload more pain in addition to what they have already had to bear. But there are some on the no side who feel they have already made sacrifices and are now entitled to be exempt from any future measures. In short, everyone but them should suffer.

dxhound2005

bgrizzley wrote: »

"We can refuse to pay taxes if we have the requisite strength."

Much can be done in many other ways besides these. The Liquor and foreign cloth shops can be picketed. We can refuse to pay taxes if we have the requisite strength. The lawyers can give up practice. The public can boycott the law courts by refraining from litigation.

Are you going to picket the Liquor shop?

kr7

lugha wrote: »

It unfortunately will have to be. Just as there will have to be extensive cuts in all spending, particularly public sector pay and maybe even redundancies. Just as there will have to be additional taxes as well as the property tax.

I have consistently said that everybody is going to have to endure a cartload more pain in addition to what they have already had to bear. But there are some on the no side who feel they have already made sacrifices and are now entitled to be exempt from any future measures. In short, everyone but them should suffer.

Well lets have the PS cuts first, anyone on over €40k needs to be cut, and cut in line with the same worker in the private sector.

Where's benchmarking now???

And I still say a 5% cut in welfare is not too much to ask.

I'm self employed and my income has halved since 2008.

My mortgage hasn't though...

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Much can be done in many other ways besides these. The Liquor and foreign cloth shops can be picketed. We can refuse to pay taxes if we have the requisite strength. The lawyers can give up practice. The public can boycott the law courts by refraining from litigation.

Are you going to picket the Liquor shop?

no but i may raid it lol

K-9

darkhorse wrote: »

This is a piece in the Irish Times by Edward Leane. I think its very relevant.

Things change when the people are united on basic principles which are clearly understood and achievable.
Not since the middle ages has there been such a concerted effort to deny people their basic absolute individual human rights and the reason the ruling elite can get away with this is because people have been conned into accepting phony rights which are designed to create chaos and exploitation.
Instead of the absolute right to ownership of property the new right is the ruling elite have the right to deny you that right in whatever way they wish.

Well I know hyperbole is par for the course and it washes over me at this stage but I had to comment on that, in the Times!

And that isn't even touching on the accuracy of the claim, not since the middle ages, eh? I can think of the penal laws for a start.

dxhound2005

kr7 wrote: »

Well lets have the PS cuts first, anyone on over €40k needs to be cut, and cut in line with the same worker in the private sector.

Where's benchmarking now???

And I still say a 5% cut in welfare is not too much to ask.

I'm self employed and my income has halved since 2008.

My mortgage hasn't though...

Public Service numbers and wages have been cut and continue to be cut. By 2015 the projection is that the overall wage bill compared to 2008 will be down by 20%. This is in a situation where the population of the country increased by 340,000 (8%) between the census in 2006 and the census in 2011 and this is a trend which is continuing.

Towards 2016 which had annual pay rises lined up has been abandoned. There appears to be no prospect of the vast bulk of the PS ever getting a pay rise again. Except for increments and if you do away with those someone starting at say age 20 on €25K will be left there forever instead of typically progressing to €40k over 12 or 15 years.

There are about 1.8 million people employed in the country of which approx 300,000 are Public Service. You can't say that the 1.5 million in the private sector are all doing worse than the public service.

dvpower

K-9 wrote: »

And that isn't even touching on the accuracy of the claim, not since the middle ages, eh? I can think of the penal laws for a start.

The Household charge is way worse than the penal laws. :pac:

dxhound2005

darkhorse wrote: »

This is a piece in the Irish Times by Edward Leane. I think its very relevant.

Things change when the people are united on basic principles which are clearly understood and achievable.
Not since the middle ages has there been such a concerted effort to deny people their basic absolute individual human rights and the reason the ruling elite can get away with this is because people have been conned into accepting phony rights which are designed to create chaos and exploitation.
Instead of the absolute right to ownership of property the new right is the ruling elite have the right to deny you that right in whatever way they wish.

"A piece in the Irish Times" is misleading. It was a letter to the editor published on the letters page.

K-9

dxhound2005 wrote: »

"A piece in the Irish Times" is misleading. It was a letter to the editor published on the letters page.

Just a strongly worded letter then, thought a journalist actually wrote it.

tayto lover

I see Fidelma Healy Eames had her untaxed Merc taken away by the Garda today. That woman has some neck. Enda will have words with her soon i'd say.

mikom

tayto lover wrote: »

I see Fidelma Healy Eames had her untaxed Merc taken away by the Garda today. That woman has some neck. Enda will have words with her soon i'd say.

You stay classy FG.
The unelectable one that Edna put forward to the senate.
Great judgement that lad....