Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

kr7

So the pro-taxers agree with,

Don't touch welfare.

Don't touch the CPA and annual pay rises.

Don't touch the mega rich as it will 'drive them out of the country'.

Don't touch private renters as they get no benefit from the property.

Don't touch LA tenants as god love them they're the 'poorest in society'.


Do attack anyone who has the absolute cheek to buy and pay for their own house and didn't cost the state a cent to house them.

One can see why the country is so ****ed up.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

They are pay cuts!!

Eh its a levy on their pensions, they are not contributing more to their pensions they are being levied on the contributions they have made to their pensions, if they were contributing more to their pensions they would have upped their pension contribution and not introduced a levy, wouldnt they?

And is the USC a pay cut?

It's a charge donal. Not a cut, not a tax.

Scanlas The 2nd

golden lane wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

We don't have the luxury of giving people what they are "due back". We need to find cuts everywhere.

you don't have the luxury of making people feel they would be better off if they never worked in the first place......

Yes another reason why cutting the dole makes sense, glad we agree. The sense of entitlement in this country has destroyed our economy.

Dub XV

donalg1 wrote: »

They are pay cuts!!

Eh its a levy on their pensions, they are not contributing more to their pensions they are being levied on the contributions they have made to their pensions, if they were contributing more to their pensions they would have upped their pension contribution and not introduced a levy, wouldnt they?

And is the USC a pay cut?

I'm afraid that IS a levy on a pension not a Pay Cut!

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

It's a charge donal. Not a cut, not a tax.

Its not a cut then so people paying the USC are actually getting paid more after they pay it than before it was introduced, how much extra do you get a week from the USC, I must tell my employer to add the USC to my wages each week, they have been deducting it for quite a while now.

lugha

kr7 wrote: »

So the pro-taxers agree with,

Don't touch welfare.

Don't touch the CPA and annual pay rises.

Don't touch the mega rich as it will 'drive them out of the country'.

Don't touch private renters as they get no benefit from the property.

Don't touch LA tenants as god love them they're the 'poorest in society'.


Do attack anyone who has the absolute cheek to buy and pay for their own house and didn't cost the state a cent to house them.

One can see why the country is so ****ed up.

Can you cite even one "pro taxer" (!) who says social welfare and public sector pay should not be cut? From my reading, they ALL agree that this has to happen.

donalg1

Dub XV wrote: »

I'm afraid that IS a levy on a pension not a Pay Cut!

Again so the wages of the people paying it are in fact increased as a result of the pension levy? To me it would seem their pay has been cut, maybe I am wrong though. Can you show me a wage slip of someone paying this or getting this levy so I can see if it is added to their wages or deducted.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

So what?
The wage bill is being cut because of a drop in numbers, not because of salary reductions.

Then you state that the vast majority will not get a pay rise again, 'except for increments'?

What's an increment? it's a pay rise for god sake.

More double talk from the PS cheerleaders.

You do know increments are primarily a first five years thing - ie generally for workers on the lowest salary scales - who are the people who would be most likely to to be getting pay rises in the private sector too? Increments at higher levels are far fewer and much harder to attain. If you were in a new career for five years and hadn't managed to get a salary raise of five grand over those years, you'd feel pretty hard done by I'm sure.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

Again so the wages of the people paying it are in fact increased as a result of the pension levy? To me it would seem their pay has been cut, maybe I am wrong though. Can you show me a wage slip of someone paying this or getting this levy so I can see if it is added to their wages or deducted.

If your on say, €30k per year and you have to pay a pension levy or USC, your take home pay may decrease but your salary doesn't. Your still on €30k per year.
Do you understand that?

alastair

donalg1 wrote: »

Again so the wages of the people paying it are in fact increased as a result of the pension levy? To me it would seem their pay has been cut, maybe I am wrong though. Can you show me a wage slip of someone paying this or getting this levy so I can see if it is added to their wages or deducted.

Pension levy -

Reduces public sector salary bill
Reduces public sector salary slips

but isn't a salary cut.

heh.

Dub XV

donalg1 wrote: »

Again so the wages of the people paying it are in fact increased as a result of the pension levy? To me it would seem their pay has been cut, maybe I am wrong though. Can you show me a wage slip of someone paying this or getting this levy so I can see if it is added to their wages or deducted.

What a ridiculous argument. I am talking about a wage cut not a reduction in cash in your pocket at the end of the week/month.

If that's the case the Property Tax will be a wage cut

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

Pension levy -

Reduces public sector salary bill
Reduces public sector salary slips

but isn't a salary cut.

heh.

You can't have it every way Alastair.

Dub XV

kr7 wrote: »

If your on say, €30k per year and you have to pay a pension levy or USC, your take home pay may decrease but your salary doesn't. Your still on €30k per year.
Do you understand that?

Only when it suits!

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

What a ridiculous argument. I am talking about a wage cut not a reduction in cash in your pocket at the end of the week/month.

If that's the case the Property Tax will be a wage cut

Will the property tax reduce the overall wage overhead? No it won't

Does the pension levy reduce the overall wage overhead? Yes it does.

Which of those actually involves wage cuts?

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

You can't have it every way Alastair.

You can certainly identify a wage cut when it's right under your nose though. Surely?

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

You do know increments are primarily a first five years thing - ie generally for workers on the lowest salary scales - who are the people who would be most likely to to be getting pay rises in the private sector too? Increments at higher levels are far fewer and much harder to attain. If you were in a new career for five years and hadn't managed to get a salary raise of five grand over those years, you'd feel pretty hard done by I'm sure.

So what?

Do away with them anyway. You can't argue about saving the country with a property tax but demand other cost cutting measures be ignored.....Can you?

Really?

kr7

Dub XV wrote: »

Only when it suits!

It's a terrible injustice when the pampered PS have to start contributing to their pension, isn't it.

BooHooHoo!

The PS are still paid on average 30% more than similar workers in the private sector.

Mammy state!

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

You can certainly identify a wage cut when it's right under your nose though. Surely?

So when Revenue take the Property Tax directly it will be a wage/salary cut....Not like a pay cut or feel like a pay cut.

For Homeowners only?

donalg1

alastair wrote: »

Pension levy -

Reduces public sector salary bill
Reduces public sector salary slips

but isn't a salary cut.

heh.

Is the pay of an employee paying the pension levy cut or increased when they pay the levy?

I know you know the answer alastair but there is no point asking the others as the concept goes flying over their heads.

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

So what?

Do away with them anyway. You can't argue about saving the country with a property tax but demand other cost cutting measures be ignored.....Can you?

Really?

Where did I say anything of the sort?

The guff about 'annual increments' manages to ignore the reality of them - they're only annual for a limited number of years, right at the outset of public sector careers - and many of those people are on pretty low salaries - have you seen what a clerical officer starting salary is?

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

It's a terrible injustice when the pampered PS have to start contributing to their pension, isn't it.

BooHooHoo!

The PS are still paid on average 30% more than similar workers in the private sector.

Mammy state!

Werent they doing so already?

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

Is the pay of an employee paying the pension levy cut or increased when they pay the levy?

Your take home pay decreases, but your salary doesn't.
Your still getting the same salary.

Don't be crying about it, you've already stated on this thread that you will pay any tax imposed on you as you won't be a lawbreaker.

More taxes in the PS I say, after all we have to cut the deficit.

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

So when Revenue take the Property Tax directly it will be a wage/salary cut....Not like a pay cut or feel like a pay cut.

No it won't. Does it reduce the wage overhead? If not - it's not a wage cut.

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

Where did I say anything of the sort?

The guff about 'annual increments' manages to ignore the reality of them - they're only annual for a limited number of years, right at the outset of public sector careers - and many of those people are on pretty low salaries - have you seen what a clerical officer starting salary is?

So why can't you agree to go after PS reductions?

Why you defending this but championing the Property Tax?

You were talking about bridging the deficit before but now you are defending certain workers?

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

Your take home pay decreases, but your salary doesn't.
Your still getting the same salary.

Don't be crying about it, you've already stated on this thread that you will pay any tax imposed on you as you won't be a lawbreaker.

More taxes in the PS I say, after all we have to cut the deficit.

So your pay decreases then, ok so you agree its a pay cut, glad to have cleared that up.

More taxes across the board I say, you are just the same as all the anti property tax lot, you want everyone but yourself to pay. What taxes would you like to see brought in that directly affect you?

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Your take home pay decreases, but your salary doesn't.
Your still getting the same salary.

Oh, the irony - we have this nonsense followed by:

kr7 wrote: »

More taxes in the PS I say, after all we have to cut the deficit.

What exactly does the 'not a wage cut' Pension levy do, but help cut the deficit. Wonder ho that works then?

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

Oh, the irony - we have this nonsense followed by:


What exactly does the 'not a wage cut' Pension levy do, but help cut the deficit. Wonder ho that works then?

YES!


The deficit in PS Pensions scheme!

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

So why can't you agree to go after PS reductions?

Why you defending this but championing the Property Tax?

You were talking about bridging the deficit before but now you are defending certain workers?

I'm defending some degree of clarity on where cuts have been made, where annual wage increases actually apply, and where comparative cuts in private and public wage cuts have been measured. I'm all in favour of cuts based on a genuine understanding of where we are - as opposed to Sindo-style ranting.

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

No it won't. Does it reduce the wage overhead? If not - it's not a wage cut.

Yes!

Indirectly one could argue.

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

YES!


The deficit in PS Pensions scheme!

Glad you're beginning to see the light.