Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

So your pay decreases then, ok so you agree its a pay cut, glad to have cleared that up.

More taxes across the board I say, you are just the same as all the anti property tax lot, you want everyone but yourself to pay. What taxes would you like to see brought in that directly affect you?

If you want to call contributing a bit more to your future for when you retire a pay cut, go ahead.
Your wrong but fire away.

I've stated many times that I would pay something similar to council tax if we get the same services those in the UK get and everyone has to pay it.

I'll gladly pay water charge to pay for something I receive.

I would pay an increased motor tax too considering my 2.0 diesel only costs €220 a year to tax.

Do you want some more examples?

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

I'm defending some degree of clarity on where cuts have been made, where annual wage increases actually apply, and where comparative cuts in private and public wage cuts have been measured. I'm all in favour of cuts based on a genuine understanding of where we are - as opposed to Sindo-style ranting.

The Croke Park Agreement is the only stumbling block to the much needed reductions in the PS.

Everyone knows this.

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

Yes!

Indirectly one could argue.

If you were so blinkered as to abandon any logic - I guess. If it doesn't cut the wage overhead, it's not a wage cut.

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

Glad you're beginning to see the light.

Yeah the government can't afford the high pensions those in the Public Service have been entitled to.

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

The Croke Park Agreement is the only stumbling block to the much needed reductions in the PS.

Everyone knows this.

The only one? I'd imagine public sector workers might have some input beyond that.

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

Yeah the government can't afford the high pensions those in the Public Service have been entitled to.

The government can't afford a lot of things - but pretending wage cuts aren't wage cuts doesn't really help matters much - does it?

kr7

Dub XV wrote: »

The Croke Park Agreement is the only stumbling block to the much needed reductions in the PS.

Everyone knows this.

It can't be touched though. Labour would walk, the same as they would walk if welfare is touched.

kr7

10 am and donal disappears, must be break time.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

If you want to call contributing a bit more to your future for when you retire a pay cut, go ahead.
Your wrong but fire away.

I've stated many times that I would pay something similar to council tax if we get the same services those in the UK get and everyone has to pay it.

I'll gladly pay water charge to pay for something I receive.

I would pay an increased motor tax too considering my 2.0 diesel only costs €220 a year to tax.

Do you want some more examples?

So you will pay extra taxes provided you receive some extra services in return, and how will this help reduce the deficit.

If your property tax was say €500 next year you would refuse to pay this, however if the increased your motor tax by €500 you would say ok fair enough I will pay that but I am not paying a property tax.

And if your water charges were €500 and the Govt decide to levy this with another €500 you would pay that too?

Yet you wont pay a property tax?

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

10 am and donal disappears, must be break time.

What are you talking about? I am still here laughing my ass off at your nonsensical posts.

out da lough

Between city and county councils, this small part of a tiny little island off the coast of Europe, has 34 local authorities.

The County Manager of Cork earns more than the Spanish Prime Minister.

The Lord Mayor of Cork earns more than the Spanish Prime Minister.

The City Manager of Cork earns more than the Spanish Prime Minister.

And all this to "administer a county with just under a half a million people?

Heres a suggestion: how about one local authority in Cork with one CEO? That would save €300,000 a year on just two public sector workers salaries.

Also: we already pay for waste collection, we paid site development fees for the street lights, our local "residents association" festoon us with flyers looking for money to pay for grass cutting, and water charges are coming in next year, every time I fill up with diesel I pay VAT and Excise Duty of €60 directly to the government, on top of the VAT I pay on my compulsory Car Insurance, before I even get to the annual Road Tax and NCT charges. So it couldn't be for "the upkeep of local roads," now could it? I have to pay for on street parking so from what I can see, the only thing that this proposed tax could be for is for parks. But then Fitzgeralds Park (the main local authority amenity park here in Cork) was charging €15 admission to get in last weekend, because there was a private event going on in there. We pay a social levy on our ESB bills as well as VAT which would be more than adequate to pay for the maintenance of street lights.

We now have two enormous office blocks in the County Hall which is about five miles away from the City Hall, with massive duplication of administrative staff.

If I call the fire brigade I get a bill.

So; can anyone tell us what "local services" this tax will pay for?

Oh and one more thing: when the government decides to perhaps reduce the €64 Billion it has decided to spend bailing out failed banks then maybe it might have just a teeny bit more moral authority to start asking for more taxes from the coping classes.

Chips Lovell

Croke Park is due to expire in 2014, after which there'll be another public sector pay agreement. Unless there's an incredible uptick in the economy in the mean time, I'm guessing pay cuts are an inevitability. By the looks of it, we're reaching the limits of savings now through reductions in numbers.

Given that the current agreement is, by and large, delivering the savings it said it would, I'm of the opinion that ripping it up and causing widespread chaos just to make a political point would be counter productive.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

So you will pay extra taxes provided you receive some extra services in return, and how will this help reduce the deficit.

If your property tax was say €500 next year you would refuse to pay this, however if the increased your motor tax by €500 you would say ok fair enough I will pay that but I am not paying a property tax.

And if your water charges were €500 and the Govt decide to levy this with another €500 you would pay that too?

Yet you wont pay a property tax?

It's a matter of principles.

You should get some.

alastair

out da lough wrote: »

So; can anyone tell us what "local services" this tax will pay for?

Consult your local authority website to see what services they provide.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

It's a matter of principles.

You should get some.

Oh I have some dont worry about me KR.

Just wondering what your reasoning behind it is though?

Why would you pay an extra €500 on your motor tax but refuse to pay a property tax of €500 instead of it? What difference does it make?

alastair

out da lough wrote: »

Oh and one more thing: when the government decides to perhaps reduce the €64 Billion it has decided to spend bailing out failed banks then maybe it might have just a teeny bit more moral authority to start asking for more taxes from the coping classes.

The lenders who are keeping the country running have stipulated (so far) that they have to pay them. Do you think they've any real choice in the matter?

Seems like a good moment to once again point to where our taxes go: http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/6826/taxbill.jpg

golden lane

out da lough wrote: »

Between city and county councils, this small part of a tiny little island off the coast of Europe, has 34 local authorities.

The County Manager of Cork earns more than the Spanish Prime Minister.

The Lord Mayor of Cork earns more than the Spanish Prime Minister.

The City Manager of Cork earns more than the Spanish Prime Minister.

And all this to "administer a county with just under a half a million people?

Heres a suggestion: how about one local authority in Cork with one CEO? That would save €300,000 a year on just two public sector workers salaries.

Also: we already pay for waste collection, we paid site development fees for the street lights, our local "residents association" festoon us with flyers looking for money to pay for grass cutting, and water charges are coming in next year, every time I fill up with diesel I pay VAT and Excise Duty of €60 directly to the government, on top of the VAT I pay on my compulsory Car Insurance, before I even get to the annual Road Tax and NCT charges. So it couldn't be for "the upkeep of local roads," now could it? I have to pay for on street parking so from what I can see, the only thing that this proposed tax could be for is for parks. But then Fitzgeralds Park (the main local authority amenity park here in Cork) was charging €15 admission to get in last weekend, because there was a private event going on in there. We pay a social levy on our ESB bills as well as VAT which would be more than adequate to pay for the maintenance of street lights.

We now have two enormous office blocks in the County Hall which is about five miles away from the City Hall, with massive duplication of administrative staff.

If I call the fire brigade I get a bill.

So; can anyone tell us what "local services" this tax will pay for?

" jobs for the boys" has always been a fact of life in ireland......even when people had nothing...........

these special people.....their rights.....cpa cannot be altered..,.,.,

is ireland a land of loonies.........borrowing money to pasy these people, way far too much.....

the democratic republic of threatening unions.....

the ps....the.biggest charity in europe..........

kr7

To comical ali, donal, dv and the rest of the pro-property taxers I say this,

If you want to pay a tax for having the cheek to provide a home for yourself, go right ahead.
Nobody on the anti-property tax is telling you not to.

We on the no side are putting forward different ways to cut the deficit in the country as well as voicing our opposition to the property tax.

I haven't heard one idea put forward from the pro-taxers on how to cut the deficit, only demonising people who do not agree with a property tax.

There's even one pro-taxer who refused to pay a similar tax in another country but continually attacks people who take the same stance here.

alastair

golden lane wrote: »

" jobs for the boys" has always been a fact of life in ireland......even when people had nothing...........

these special people.....their rights.....cpa cannot be altered..,.,.,

is ireland a land of loonies.........borrowing money to pasy these people, way far too much.....

the democratic republic of threatening unions.....

the ps....the.biggest charity in europe..........

Case in point - Sindo-style ranting.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

Oh I have some dont worry about me KR.

Just wondering what your reasoning behind it is though?

Why would you pay an extra €500 on your motor tax but refuse to pay a property tax of €500 instead of it? What difference does it make?

Donal, the principle of being taxed on my home is abhorred to me.

They are trying to tax me for putting my own roof over my head while at the same time exempting a massive section of the country who don't.

Any other taxes I don't have a problem with.

There are other views, you know.

Just because they try to bring in a new tax doesn't make it right.

donalg1

out da lough wrote: »

Between city and county councils, this small part of a tiny little island off the coast of Europe, has 34 local authorities.

The County Manager of Cork earns more than the Spanish Prime Minister.

The Lord Mayor of Cork earns more than the Spanish Prime Minister.

The City Manager of Cork earns more than the Spanish Prime Minister.

And all this to "administer a county with just under a half a million people?

Heres a suggestion: how about one local authority in Cork with one CEO? That would save €300,000 a year on just two public sector workers salaries.

Also: we already pay for waste collection, we paid site development fees for the street lights, our local "residents association" festoon us with flyers looking for money to pay for grass cutting, and water charges are coming in next year, every time I fill up with diesel I pay VAT and Excise Duty of €60 directly to the government, on top of the VAT I pay on my compulsory Car Insurance, before I even get to the annual Road Tax and NCT charges. So it couldn't be for "the upkeep of local roads," now could it? I have to pay for on street parking so from what I can see, the only thing that this proposed tax could be for is for parks. But then Fitzgeralds Park (the main local authority amenity park here in Cork) was charging €15 admission to get in last weekend, because there was a private event going on in there. We pay a social levy on our ESB bills as well as VAT which would be more than adequate to pay for the maintenance of street lights.

We now have two enormous office blocks in the County Hall which is about five miles away from the City Hall, with massive duplication of administrative staff.

If I call the fire brigade I get a bill.

So; can anyone tell us what "local services" this tax will pay for?

Oh and one more thing: when the government decides to perhaps reduce the €64 Billion it has decided to spend bailing out failed banks then maybe it might have just a teeny bit more moral authority to start asking for more taxes from the coping classes.

Where does your waste go when its collected by Private Companies?

Maybe if your Residents Association stopped wasting money on flyers they would have some more money to cut the grass in your estate. And most estates have resident associations that do this as its part of living in an estate. If you are not happy with this maybe you shouldnt have bought a house in an estate. Maybe you could tell the Residents Association you dont care if the grass in the common area in the estate is cut or kept neat and tidy. The Local Authorities will never cut the grass in estates even if they take the estate in charge.

As for your Motor Tax being for the upkeep of local roads, well I dont think anyone here thinks that Motor Tax is used solely for the upkeep of roads, for some reason people seem to believe that their Motor Tax is used solely for the maintenance of roads, however this is simply not true.

I do agree with the salaries of the top lads in the LA being absolutely ridiculous and they most certainly need to be reduced.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

We on the no side are putting forward different ways to cut the deficit in the country as well as voicing our opposition to the property tax.

Is that the 'cut the dole' and I'll pay a bit more on my motor tax solution?

kr7 wrote: »

I haven't heard one idea put forward from the pro-taxers on how to cut the deficit, only demonising people who do not agree with a property tax.

'Demonising' eh? Is that like the 'bullying' and 'threats' that poor (usually 'elderly') punters were faced with when they got their HHC demands? If so, colour me unimpressed.

kr7 wrote: »

There's even one pro-taxer who refused to pay a similar tax in another country but continually attacks people who take the same stance here.

A poll tax is not a property tax. The poll tax was intended to replace a property tax - which would be rather more similar to what's proposed here. And I attack those hypocrites who pretend (on and off) that it's not a tax they're evading, and that they'll not have to pay up in the final analysis.

golden lane

alastair wrote: »

Case in point - Sindo-style ranting.

never read the so called sindo.....just stating facts....but you may not have noticed.....the country is in the shoite......

of course you believe in compelling people......

out da lough

unit 1 wrote: »

Look folks I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it really is very simple.

No matter how much tax any of you are now paying it is not enough, ok got that, it's not enough.
No amount of pleading, or tax everyone else except me, or we're a special case, or pay it will I fukc, or EK gets too much wages matters. We all have to pay more tax and those on SW will have to do with less, it is quite frankly as simple as that,

It's not enough to be able to afford the costs involved in running the country. Why do we need 753 county and city councillors, each with expenses and each claiming mileage and meal allowances?

Just because somebody says that "we need more money" doesn't mean that we should pay it.

We should ask what is this money for: we wouldn't go into a restaurant without having some rough idea of the costs involved, so why should we give the ruling class a blank cheque to keep coming back to us looking for more money?

If there isn't enough money there, then amalgamate some of the local authorities. How many staff in the motor tax offices around the country were laid off when motor tax renewal went on line? How many planning officers are sitting around doing nothing since the property market collapsed?

The money we are paying "is not enough," but what we are paying for is massively superfluous to what we need.

If I have €50 in my pocket I don't go into a shop and walk up to the till with a shirt costing €100, and ask the guy in the queue behind me for the extra €50 because "I don't have enough."

No. I pick up a shirt that costs €50 instead.

Obviously someone will come on now and start making idealogical justifications as to why my common sense approach is completely off the wall, but hey, that's what discussion boards are for.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

To comical ali, donal, dv and the rest of the pro-property taxers I say this,

If you want to pay a tax for having the cheek to provide a home for yourself, go right ahead.
Nobody on the anti-property tax is telling you not to.

We on the no side are putting forward different ways to cut the deficit in the country as well as voicing our opposition to the property tax.

I haven't heard one idea put forward from the pro-taxers on how to cut the deficit, only demonising people who do not agree with a property tax.

There's even one pro-taxer who refused to pay a similar tax in another country but continually attacks people who take the same stance here.

Seriously?

And those on the no side are only coming up with ways of cutting the deficit that dont affect them or that dont make any sense. Such as I will pay more tax provided I get something in return.

Or to put it simply they are saying, "I will happily pay the Govt €100 next year in extra taxes provided I get an extra €100 back in the form of services. This is my solution to cutting the deficit".

I for one cant see how the above could possibly work.

lugha

kr7 wrote: »

I haven't heard one idea put forward from the pro-taxers on how to cut the deficit, only demonising people who do not agree with a property tax.

I see. So you are still pretending that we are against welfare cuts and public sector wage cuts?

For clarity, I at least am not. These measure will be necessary, as will new taxes such as the property tax.

And the various "arguments" put against a property tax have been exposed as bogus time and again.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

Donal, the principle of being taxed on my home is abhorred to me.

They are trying to tax me for putting my own roof over my head while at the same time exempting a massive section of the country who don't.

Any other taxes I don't have a problem with.

There are other views, you know.

Just because they try to bring in a new tax doesn't make it right.

Just because you dont think its right doesnt mean you dont have to pay it though.

So if everyone was to pay some form of property tax would you pay it then?

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Donal, the principle of being taxed on my home is abhorred to me.

Let's say I've an equal abhorrence of being taxed on my car. Neither of us get to dictate where taxes are applied, based on our personal tastes. If that's the extent of your objection, why should anyone care what you 'abhor'?

alastair

golden lane wrote: »

never read the so called sindo.....just stating facts....but you may not have noticed.....the country is in the shoite......

of course you believe in compelling people......

Sorry - I don't do streams of consciousness.

out da lough

Road tax is for the upkeep of the roads and was introduced for that purpose. I bought two new tyres last week, and paid €50.48 in VAT on them. I then filled my car up with diesel, and paid €107 for the privilege. Of that, €68 went directly to the government in Excise duty and VAT.

OK: I can accept that those charges go towards paying our Taoiseach more than the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

What I cannot and will not accept is that the Motor Tax that I pay is not for the upkeep of roads.