Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

alastair

out da lough wrote: »

Road tax is for the upkeep of the roads and was introduced for that purpose.

There's no such thing as road tax.

out da lough wrote: »

What I cannot and will not accept is that the Motor Tax that I pay is not for the upkeep of roads.

It's not.

golden lane

alastair wrote: »

Sorry - I don't do streams of consciousness.

seems you don't do anything.....except try to put down peoples right to an opinion.....

i wonder where you learned that......

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

Case in point - Sindo-style ranting.

What kind of post is that?

What's a Sindo?

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

Just because you dont think its right doesnt mean you dont have to pay it though.

So if everyone was to pay some form of property tax would you pay it then?

We're getting somewhere now I hope.

Yes, if a tax like the council tax in the UK was brought in and everyone was liable, even on a sliding scale, I would pay it.

I've stated that I will pay for water too as it's a tangible service I receive.

I will not be taxed for providing my own home though.

I have not paid the registration charge and I will not pay a property tax.

I would suggest our brilliant politicians go back to the drawing board and think of something else.

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

What's a Sindo?

Really?

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

I would suggest our brilliant politicians go back to the drawing board and think of something else.

I would suggest you've got penalty payments in your future.

kr7

golden lane wrote: »

seems you don't do anything.....except try to put down peoples right to an opinion.....

i wonder where you learned that......

The OO.

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

There's no such thing as road tax.

What is a road toll then?

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

Really?

Whooooooosh!

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

What is a road toll then?

A road toll.

donalg1

out da lough wrote: »

Road tax is for the upkeep of the roads and was introduced for that purpose. I bought two new tyres last week, and paid €50.48 in VAT on them. I then filled my car up with diesel, and paid €107 for the privilege. Of that, €68 went directly to the government in Excise duty and VAT.

OK: I can accept that those charges go towards paying our Taoiseach more than the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

What I cannot and will not accept is that the Motor Tax that I pay is not for the upkeep of roads.

The Motor Tax is not used solely for the upkeep of the Roads, this is a fact. Local authority funding is made up of a number of different sources one of which is Motor Tax, this means that what they take in from Motor Tax is used to fund all aspects of Local Authorities functions and not just the maintenance of roads. People really need to learn to understand this very basic fact before spouting the same old nonsense about Motor Tax is paid to fix potholes.

Since the introduction of the carbon based emission tax bands the income of Local Authorities has decreased dramatically as you could probably imagine. Therefore the Local Authorities have less money to spend on the maintenance of roads as there is less money being spread over all functions of Local Authorities. Couple that with the two extremely harsh winters in recent years and you can see why the Roads may not be up to standard, there is simply not enough money to fix them. Hence the introduction of other taxes to directly fund Local Authorities.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

We're getting somewhere now I hope.

Yes, if a tax like the council tax in the UK was brought in and everyone was liable, even on a sliding scale, I would pay it.

I've stated that I will pay for water too as it's a tangible service I receive.

I will not be taxed for providing my own home though.

I have not paid the registration charge and I will not pay a property tax.

I would suggest our brilliant politicians go back to the drawing board and think of something else.

Ok so you are happy to pay say €1,000 a year in extra taxes provided you receive a service in return equivalent to €1,000. Fair enough.

Now once you have paid these taxes and received these services can you outline how you propose to bridge the deficit? Bearing in mind your demand for fairness and demand that everyone is liable, any proposals you make to bridge the deficit must include and affect everyone.

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

A road toll.

And the definition of a toll is?

out da lough

donalg1 wrote: »

Where does your waste go when its collected by Private Companies?

I have no idea why you feel that is relevant, but here goes:

I bought an In Sink Erator for which I paid €150 of which €30 was VAT. Most organic waste (kitchen waste and food scraps) is disposed of through this. The rest I feed to my dog, and then I use a composter for the remainder which is very small and has to be topped up with my garden cuttings. The water charges that I will pay from next year will pay for the sewerage and disposal costs related to this. Everything else is recycled or composted. The private waste collection company that collects my recycled material is paid for doing so. It delivers the recycled waste to a Materials Recovery Facility (MRF) nearby. Here the waste is sorted and sold to recovery companies where the aluminium, plastic, newsprint, card and packaging is reprocessed and sold on to be re used.



(By the way, I have been paying to have my waste collected since 1999.)

donalg1

Dub XV wrote: »

What is a road toll then?

Do road tolls go to Local Authorities or the Private Company that built the road as part of a PPP contract?

Chips Lovell

You could similarly argue that it's inequitable for people to be paying a tax on a property they don't own too.

As has bee pointed out multiple times here, taxing personal assets isn't unprecedented nor widely regarded as inequitable.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

Consult your local authority website to see what services they provide.

This answer means none.

alastair wrote: »

I would suggest you've got penalty payments in your future.

Which we won't pay either.

out da lough

donalg1 wrote: »

The Motor Tax is not used solely for the upkeep of the Roads, this is a fact.

I know.

Some of it is used to pay the local County Manager more than the Prime Minister of Spain.

Ray Palmer

alastair wrote: »

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You pay tax on profits made not on your savings.

Same outcome. No savings - no tax liability.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The apparent reason for the tax is for LA. you use those services so you should pay.

Yep - it's used to fund local authority services. It's part of the total local authority funding taxation package.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Stamp duty is based on the value of the property.

At time of purchase - yes.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is a tax on property. You obviously don't understand valuation of property given what you said.

No - it's a tax on the transaction. Not on the property.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

As services in cities will be cheaper to provide yet more tax will be taken there is a disconnect from the valuation to the service provided.

There's always a disconnect in play there. I don't use the playground or the golf course provided by my local authority - so someone else benefits to a greater degree there. That's just a fact of life. Rural areas are subsidised by Urban taxpayers on account of the greater overhead to provide similar services in low population regions.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

HHC was forced in by the eu. It was meant to be as described. It was changed to be a property tax and said to be replaced. It didn't start as a property tax.

It certainly did - go read the HHC homepage for a start.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Reading back I see you changed what way valuation on property is done and how it is fair.

I didn't change anything.

First off you claimed a tax on interest is the same as tax on savings. It certainly isn't, you are not being taxed on the asset. Property tax is on an asset.
Stamp duty technically is a transactional tax. It was used and acknowledged by past and current governments as a property tax. That is why it is reduced as part of the property tax plan.
It has already been stated that stamp duty will be off set against property tax. They just haven't agreed how far back they will go. You are being pedantic about this tax yet lax when talking about other taxes.
As the LA is meant to retain money raised rural area will not benefit from PT raised in built up areas. So will not subsidise as you suggest
HHC as it was brought in was always a property tax. The point is it was agreed as a household charge at eu level and the government brought it in as a property tax. A con.
You stated in valuation that houses that are the same regardless of location. You also claimed higher value on houses in better location is fair. It can't be both.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

Ok so you are happy to pay say €1,000 a year in extra taxes provided you receive a service in return equivalent to €1,000. Fair enough.

Now once you have paid these taxes and received these services can you outline how you propose to bridge the deficit? Bearing in mind your demand for fairness and demand that everyone is liable, any proposals you make to bridge the deficit must include and affect everyone.

Again,
A 5% cut in welfare across the board will save €1.1 billion.

Anyone on, say €80k or more be put on a third rate of tax of 50%.

How about we stop paying lowly county managers more than the presidents of some major countries.

How about we stop breaking the already agreed pay caps for 'special' advisors to the government.

That's just a few examples, I could go on.

tayto lover

I think i'm actually in the middle of this debate regarding the cutting of wages. I never would agree with cutting the wages of workers in either Private or Public Sectors except at the top.
This kind of argument is always used to split and divide both Sectors and take their eye of the ball.
I do not want to be dealt with by a disgruntled nurse, fireman, garda, waitress or shop assistant who has had their wages cut and are angry about it. Cut at the top and leave the bottom rungs alone. Those people are are already feeling the pinch. Cut higher up the tree where they are basically untouched as yet if they feel they have to cut at all.
What they should be doing is seeking a longer period and a reduced rate on our debt from Europe instead of wanting to be the blue-eyed boys and getting it done faster to please their masters. That way we will all suffer less.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

Again,
A 5% cut in welfare across the board will save €1.1 billion.

Anyone on, say €80k or more be put on a third rate of tax of 50%.

How about we stop paying lowly county managers more than the presidents of some major countries.

How about we stop breaking the already agreed pay caps for 'special' advisors to the government.

That's just a few examples, I could go on.

Please do go on as the above doesnt even begin to cover everyone in a fair way. And do the above groups cover all 4million or so people on this Island?

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

This answer means none.

If you say so. Otherwise it means the scope of services provided will be evident from checking your local authority website.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

Please do go on as the above doesnt even begin to cover everyone in a fair way. And do the above groups cover all 4million or so people on this Island?

We could increase corporation tax by 3% and still be one of the lowest in europe.

We could take control of our fishing rights that were sold down the river when we joined the EU. Some commentators reckon this has cost Ireland close to €200 billion since we joined.

We could stop phil hogan spend massive amounts on foreign junkets.

Have you any ideas yourself or are you just cheerleading for this property tax?

Ghandee

Ghandee wrote: »

My parents rates are 560£ a year.

They're in the north.

So Alastair, do explain. They pay more for services how exactly?

You never answered me Alastair.

Dub XV

tayto lover wrote: »

I think i'm actually in the middle of this debate regarding the cutting of wages. I never would agree with cutting the wages of workers in either Private or Public Sectors except at the top.
This kind of argument is always used to split and divide both Sectors and take their eye of the ball.
I do not want to be dealt with by a disgruntled nurse, fireman, garda, waitress or shop assistant who has had their wages cut and are angry about it. Cut at the top and leave the bottom rungs alone. Those people are are already feeling the pinch. Cut higher up the tree where they are basically untouched as yet if they feel they have to cut at all.
What they should be doing is seeking a longer period and a reduced rate on our debt from Europe instead of wanting to be the blue-eyed boys and getting it done faster to please their masters. That way we will all suffer less.

I have been subjected to a 26% pay cut and pay the USC.

I had to stop my Pension payments.

I have never dealt with my clients in a disgruntled manner.

I would expect professionals to act in a professional manner regardless.

As our mate Alastair stated, we need to bridge the deficit.

alastair

Ray Palmer wrote: »

First off you claimed a tax on interest is the same as tax on savings. It certainly isn't, you are not being taxed on the asset. Property tax is on an asset.

Like I say the outcome is the same - Have svings? Pay tax. Don't have savings, don't pay tax.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Stamp duty technically is a transactional tax. It was used and acknowledged by past and current governments as a property tax. That is why it is reduced as part of the property tax plan.

It is? Have you got some additional info on this the rest of us are missing?

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It has already been stated that stamp duty will be off set against property tax. They just haven't agreed how far back they will go. You are being pedantic about this tax yet lax when talking about other taxes.

Again - any info you have in this regard would be welcome.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

As the LA is meant to retain money raised rural area will not benefit from PT raised in built up areas. So will not subsidise as you suggest .

It does, and will continue to. HHC/Property taxes raised are not restricted to the local authority they are raised within. Cross-subsidisation from urban to rural areas will continue.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

HHC as it was brought in was always a property tax. The point is it was agreed as a household charge at eu level and the government brought it in as a property tax. A con.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. We commited to introduce a property tax for 2013. That's the starting point for HHC/next year's property tax.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You stated in valuation that houses that are the same regardless of location. You also claimed higher value on houses in better location is fair. It can't be both.

No I didn't. I said identical properties would be charged identical taxes. Location obviously plays a large role in property valuation.

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

You never answered me Alastair.

I'm guessing they're pensioners and therefore entitled to reductions that don't generally apply? Kinda pointless example in that case.

golden lane

kr7 wrote: »

The OO.

i am not surprised at that.......an overbearing sense of righteousness.....all the time looking down on fellow citizens......

his sweeping grandious statements of overbearing tripe......have proven that he is a long time loser......

trying to display an education that is of no interest to odrinary people.........only shows a lack of respect to those people......i wonder where he learned that from.........

tayto lover

Dub XV wrote: »

I have been subjected to a 26% pay cut and pay the USC.

I had to stop my Pension payments.

I have never dealt with my clients in a disgruntled manner.

I would expect professionals to act in a professional manner regardless.

As our mate Alastair stated, we need to bridge the deficit.

I feel for you. I suffered a wage cut too.
Have you seen the queues in the Hospital waiting-rooms though and the lack of smiles by the overwhelmed staff. I took my grandchild to Drogheda hospital last week and the place was mad. Was there for 5 hours. Not enough nurses working at all and i'd say some of the ones who were working were very close to breaking point. Many people i'd imagine would rather be on the dole than put themselves through that kind of torture. The cuts are in the wrong places.